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The New Libya...

Discussion in 'International Forum' started by jmushi1, Nov 14, 2011.

  1. jmushi1

    jmushi1 JF-Expert Member

    #1
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    Wakuu,kuna ile thread ya the rise and fall of Gaddafi.

    Hii hapa sasa ni ya kuhusu the new emerging Libya.

    Ndugu zangu wote mliokuwa mkifuatlia issue hii ya Libya...

    Mnajuwa tumetokea mbali kwenye mjadala huu wa Libya.

    Na kwasababu tumekuwa tukitofautiana kimsimamo kuhusu Libya, basi tuendelee ku prove each other wrong in terms of their standings before and right after their conflict.

    Ni wazi Gaddafi's era is now over...

    So tuendelee kuona ni yapi yanayotokea Libya kutoka kwa hao wanao jiita wanamapinduzi.

    Nitashukuru kama mkipata nafasi ya ku update humu ili kuipa nafasi ile thread nyingine ya "the rise and fall" iwe ya kuhusu wakati wa Gaddafi hadi alipouwawa huko Sirte.

    Kwa kuanzia, ninabandika habari hii kuhusu Libya mpya, tuendelee na mjadala...Ningependa pila ile habari ya RR kuhusu "NATO gives Libya the bill" kuiweka hiyo habari hap, ili tuweze kuipatia habari hii msingi wa maana.

    Pia ninayaheshimu mawazo ya kila mtu isipokuwa tuepuke kwenye kukumbushana aliyofanyiwa Gaddafi kwani hiyo sasa si issue, issue ni Libya mpya...

    Kwanza ebu tuangalie Libya mpya iliyoanzishwa kwa msaada wa NATO na Europe,hii ni kutoka EURO COUNCIL...

    Ok,baada ya masharti hayo ya Europe,hali halisi ni kama hii...

    Kuhusiana na uchumi...

    Habari yote hii hapa...

    Libya's Economy Faces New Tests After Gadhafi Era : NPR

    However hali ndani ya Libya bado ni tete...

    Habari yote hapo chini...

    http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=new-libya-8216confused8217-on-islamic-rule-2011-11-13

    Their Bill from NATO...
     
  2. Lawkeys

    Lawkeys JF-Expert Member

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    I may be pardoned for saying this, but I must say it anyway, that for the coming 5 years I would like to see Libyan's regret for the decision they have made, to make their regret a living example for those who think and believe that Revolution is a magical machine which can produce employment opportunities, upgrade living standard, elevate rule of law, shower good infrastructure, print money and make everybody reach, and of the like. Albeit at a low note, I emphatically say, that is MY WISH.
     
  3. mama D

    mama D JF-Expert Member

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    walifkiri ni rahisi kiasi hicho kupewa support na Nato??
    walishindwa hata kutumia akili ndogo tu kujiuliza hao nato walkua wanataka nini!!!
    sasa wataimba na kucheza style zote!
    pole kwa walokua wanawasupport waasi!
     
  4. Shapu

    Shapu JF-Expert Member

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    nasikia jana wamezichapa tena leaving 4 people dead
     
  5. Pezzonovante

    Pezzonovante JF-Expert Member

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    The country was formally declared liberated three days later, setting in motion the process of creating a new constitution and an elected government.

    By early November, many of the local militia leaders who helped topple Colonel Qaddafi abandoned a pledge to give up their weapons. They said that they intend to preserve their autonomy and influence political decisions as "guardians of the revolution."


    NAKWAMBIA UKISHIKA BUNDUKI UKAITUIMIA NA KUONJA MAMLAKA YAKE HUTATAKA KUIACHIA, MTU AKITAKA KUKUNYANGANYA UNAONA ANATAKA CHUKUA AUTHORITY YAKO HIYO BABA TUNITA POWER OF CHARASHINKOV
     
  6. Pezzonovante

    Pezzonovante JF-Expert Member

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    The issue of the militias is one of the most urgent facing Libya's new provisional government, the Transitional National Council.

    HILO NDILO TATIZO LA BAADA YA VITA JE WELE MACHIZI BAADA YA UKOMBOZI UTAWAPELEKA WAPI WAKATI WALIKUWA WANAPABAKA WANAIBA SASA AMANI NI NURU SASA WANAONEKANA SASA LAZIMA WAANZISHE KASHESHE
     
  7. doctorz

    doctorz JF-Expert Member

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    Libya cant be new until those in power are people the ones who were not holdong positions in the Gadhafi regiem or people who never lived outside Libya during the Gadhafi time. All who are in the transitional government were accused of crimes in the previous government. NEW LIBYA IS POSIBBLE BUT WITHOUT THE LEADERS OF NTC
     
  8. jmushi1

    jmushi1 JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu doctorz,
    "New Libya" kwa maana ya post Gaddafi era.

    Its a new era hence "New Libya"
     
  9. K

    KAPONGO JF-Expert Member

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    Libyans will now remain in nightmares for good.. not Five years!! They will be haunted and tormented by their sins and betrayal to their true son who sacrified her own life to give his people what it takes to ensure that they get in abandance all the neccessity and remain unique in this world characterised by institutionalized greedy and exploitations by the west and its allies. You may quote me!
     
  10. jmushi1

    jmushi1 JF-Expert Member

    #10
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    Kuna Walibya ambao wana amini kabisa kuwa hao NTC siyo wanamapinduzi bali lengo lao lilikuwa ni kulipiza kisasi/visasi!

    Pia wameshaanza kuchoshwa na hao rebela.Hivi kiukweli walikuwa hawajui haya yataokea?

    Mwenye kunufaika hapo ni nani?

     
  11. Somoche

    Somoche JF-Expert Member

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    Ngoma bado mbichi sana kule Libya manake wananchi wengi sasa wanajiuliza baada ya Ghadaff mbona hakuna kipya maisha magumu na usalama hakuna tena...ukweli ni kwamba vita inaendelea maeneo mbalimbali ya Libya ila hawa jamaa wa NATO hawataki watu wajue hilo ndio mana hawazitaki zionekane kwenye Media na kama mnavyojua MEDIA zote kubwa ni zao..nawashauri tuwe tunatafta habari kwenye vyombo vingne huru manake huko wanasema wazi kwamba maeneo mbalimbali ya Libya vita inaendelea.
     
  12. EMT

    EMT JF-Expert Member

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    New Libya won't happen tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. Ukiangalia Tunisia na Misri ambapo kulikuwa na true revolution, can you already see the new Tunisia or Misri? I don't think so. Likewise Libya tena inaweza kuchukua muda mrefu kuona mabadiliko kutokana na political systema ambayo Gaddafi aliiweka. They are going to start from the scratch. Kutokana na politcal suppression ya Gaddafi, kwa sasa hakuna hata mtu kutoka nje ya system ya utawala wa Gaddafi anayeonekana kuwa na credentials za kuongoza Libya hasa wakati huu. So, it is not going to be easy transition and it's going to take a long time.
     
  13. jmushi1

    jmushi1 JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu EMT,i beg to differ,

    A new Libya began the day Gaddafi got killed.
     
  14. jmushi1

    jmushi1 JF-Expert Member

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    True!

    Inaonekana ili waweze kubaki madarakani wameamuwa kutumia mabavu na ugaidi dhidi ya wananchi...This is a new Libya...The Libya after Gaddafi.

    Tuendele na mjadala...
     
  15. Bright Smart

    Bright Smart JF-Expert Member

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    By Oliver Holmes
    IMAYA, Libya | Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:26pm EST

    (Reuters) - Heavy fighting between local armed groups killed several people on the outskirts of Tripoli Saturday, as interim government officials struggled to calm tensions amid talk of tribal feuds and diehard support for Muammar Gaddafi.
    On a second day of clashes near a military camp lying among farms and villages between the capital and the port of Zawiyah, some 50 km (30 miles) to the west, anti-Gaddafi fighters from Zawiyah pounded targets with heavy machineguns, anti-aircraft cannon, rocket-propelled grenades and Grad rockets.
    Incoming shellfire forced the Zawiyah fighters to take cover and retreat at times.
    The fighting has fanned anxieties that, with tens of thousands of heavily armed men roaming a country still lacking new structures of government, frictions could escalate and hamper efforts to install democracy in place of Gaddafi's rule.
    Zawiyah fighters, who said they had two men killed on Friday, put their own losses Saturday at around 10, though there was considerable confusion at the scene. Senior figures who said they spoke for those on the other side, said they knew of no losses and blamed tension on misunderstandings.
    Intense and prolonged exchanges of gunfire punctuated by explosions continued for several hours Saturday afternoon, around a military base at Imaya, an area inhabited by people from the Wershifanna tribe, a big clan in the Tripoli region.
    The area straddles the main highway connecting the capital to the Tunisian border and oil and gas facilities near Zawiyah.
    Mohammed Sayeh, a member from the Wershifanna on the 51-seat National Transitional Council (NTC), Libya's interim rulers, played down the fighting, calling it an attack by men from Zawiyah who wanted control of the Imaya base and had been misled by a rumor that pro-Gaddafi fighters were in the area.
    "They have made propaganda that the Wershifanna are pro-Gaddafi to themselves an excuse to go through people's homes, take their cars," Sayeh told Reuters, adding that the NTC was working to calm the situation. "These are false rumors."
    HEAVY FIGHTING
    Yet at the Zawiyah brigades' front line, field commander Walid bin Kora, speaking to Reuters as the sound of bullets and grenades filled the gathering dusk, insisted he and his men had seen organised fighting units with vehicles marked "Brigade of the Martyr Muammar Gaddafi" attack them and take prisoners.
    He said Zawiyah fighters had seen tanks and green flags, a symbol of support for Gaddafi, and had captured "mercenary" pro-Gaddafi fighters from sub-Saharan Africa. "It's a real army," bin Kora said of those he was facing as his brigade regrouped under a highway bridge.
    A paramedic from Zawiyah, who drove to the scene to help take troops back to Zawiyah hospital, said he knew of at least seven killed from their side.
    Reuters journalists saw more than a dozen wounded fighters being evacuated from the area.
    Fathi Ayad, an NTC military commander who is also from the Wershifanna, said the interim administration had brought together leaders from both sides and was confident a ceasefire would hold Sunday. There was little sign of calm as darkness fell Saturday.
    Hapa ndo patamu haya mambumbumbu ya kiarabu sasa ndo yataona upumbavu wao wa kujifanya yanataka democracy ya kinafiki chini ya mwavuli NATO, USA na majizi mengine kutoka West yanayotaka resources za Libya, wacha wachinjane tu safi sana hii ndo democracy waliyoichagua na wao wameingia kwenye list ya Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia....ha ha haaaaa!!!!
     
  16. EMT

    EMT JF-Expert Member

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    Kwa hiyo unapobomoa nyumba ya zamani na kuanza ku-clear ili kuanza kujenga nyumba mpya, unaweza ukasema tayari una nyumba mpya pale unapomaliza kubomoa hiyo nyumba ya zamani?
     
  17. jmushi1

    jmushi1 JF-Expert Member

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    EMT,
    Hivi unadhani ni kwanini walisubiri kutangaza ukombozi ama a liberated Libya hadi Gaddafi alipokufa?

    Symbolically,that was the end of an era, hence the begining of a new one...Nyumba mpya sasa inaanza kujengwa,una maana gani unaposema eti bado wanaendelea kuibomoa?

    Hatutazungumzia a new Libya after 100 yrs, bali tunazungumzia "a new Libya" right from the moment walipotangaza liberation.

    Nyumba mpya siyo lazima ikamilike ndo uiite mpya...

    Nyumba mpya inayojengwa wewe unaiita ya zamani?

    Nyumba mpya, hata ikiwa kwenye msingi,itakuwa refered to as a "nyumba mpya" kwasababu ndo mwanzo wake mara baada ya nyumba ya zamani kuondolewa(assume palikuwepo nyumba kama ulivyodai).

    Pia ningependa usiji contradict na hao ambao uko upande wao kwenye issue hii...
    Na hapo kwenye ku "clear nyumba" una maana ku clear nyumba ambayo haijabomolewa ama ku clear hayo mabaki/magofu?

    Je unaamini hiyo ndo process waliyoko sasa hivi? Na je kwa maoni yako, when can we say this is a new Libya?

    Ama Libya has never changed?

    Tuendelee kujadili...
     
  18. Bright Smart

    Bright Smart JF-Expert Member

    #18
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    [h=1]​Yetu Macho!!

    Moussa Ibrahim statement – November 3, 2011 (Eng-Ita)[/h]Posted on November 4, 2011 by libyanfreepress| Leave a comment
    [​IMG]
    Dr. Moussa Ibrahim: "a Document of Honour will be declared by the united leaders of all tribes soon".
    The Seven Days News Agency, contacted by dr. Moussa Ibrahim, spokesman for the Libyan government of the Resistance, has issued this report.
    "A document of honour will soon be in the hands of Libyan tribes, and the document is a statement about the position and the reign of the tribes that joined them, even the elders. Tribes of Bani Walid, Sirte and the Touareg will be the first to sign this document, declaring firmly that those who do not enter the tribes for whatever reason there will be no future in Libya,no freedom and honour for them".

    Dr. Moussa called all honest Libyans to circulate news about this document.
    "Soon each tribe will be called to its historic responsibility, the voice of Mighty Libya will be the resistance, even if it means years of fighting and targeting of western agents as individuals, groups, tribes, and anyone who is letting down or stopping the resistance against its will, is going to pay the price significantly".
    He added:
    "Rafla agrees with the document, and Alqmazfah are with the document, the document is with the Tuareg, and other tribes which were related with us in secret and have promised they will announce their position explicitly very soon, it is going to be a surprise".
    He concluded by saying:
    "Tribal elders Sabesmon imprinted blood on the paper, blood not ink, this will be the document in the custody of the Libyan history for the generations to read from it, to know that parents and grandparents did not betray Libya, to know that they chose to end the occupation.
    The tribes which are overdue on this honour will be doomed.
    Honor to our Commanding General, Saif-al-Islam. May God bless you all ".
    IBRAHIM MOUSSA – 03.11.2011
     
  19. Zing

    Zing JF-Expert Member

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    Sasa ikitoea hawa wakaaza kupigana kama kooo za kule somalaia Nato wataingilia? Wataingia kumdefend nani? Tuombe Libya wasonge mbele bila matatizo mkaubwa laikini New libya bado ni tete na unpredicatble.

    Lakini utete utakuwepo sababu kwa hali ya uchumi wa dunia uliopo sasas libya haiwezi kuwa better( kiuchumi) than ilivyokuwa chini ya gaddaffi. Hilo tu linaweza kuwanyima watu uvumilivu. Unless watu walikuwa wanapigiania mabadiliko ya kisiasa na demokrasia tu na sio uchumi na mambo ya social services.
     
  20. jmushi1

    jmushi1 JF-Expert Member

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    NATO wako busy kunyonya mafuta...Watapenda hali hiyo iendelee kwasababu ina provide more opportunities kuliko miss opportunities.

    Pia ili kushindana na Russians na Wachina, itabidi pia wakiweza wasaidie kuuza silaha kote kote,yani kutumia ma agents tofauti kusupply weapons from the same Nations.

    Ndivyo wanavyofanya,na ndivyo ambavyo wamekuwa wakifanya miaka nenda miaka rudi...Its a scramble,at least just the beginning.

    Si uliona warusi walishajipanga licha ya kwamba ni kinafiki kwa Putin kuuliza eti nani aliwapa NATO ruhusa ya kumwua Gaddafi?

    Si unafiki huo? Si walikuwa na veto? Hivyo utaona wanajipanga tu ki opportunistic!

    I never knew Libyans are that naive...

    Nina amini mataifa mengi tu yaliyoendelea yana wananchi naive,sema wana raha ya kulindwa na serikali hizo ambazo hazigusiki.
     
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