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Ten Commandments

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Elimu (Education Forum)' started by Darwin, Dec 14, 2008.

  1. D

    Darwin JF-Expert Member

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    Hii thread nimeianzisha kwa ushauri wa Max aliyesema kama ninataka nianzishe ili apate kunijibu.
    Kila mtu ana uhuru wa kujadiliana ila sitopenda copy and paste
    Nataka vile mtu alivyosoma mwenyewe theology au hata vitabu vingine, kukopi kazi ya mtu mwingine haitasaidia chochote [ KWA WALE WASOMI NDIO MAANA KUNA MITIHANI MADARASANI.]


    Moses alizaliwa {makadirio} miaka 1400 kabla ya kristo.
    Moses ndie aliyepewa amri kumi za mungu
    Katika torat ndio wanaosema alionana na mungu macho kwa macho.
    Waislamu wanamuita Musa bwana wa mabwana.
    Yesu aliwahi kuulizwa je umekuja kuibadilisha torat ya Moses? akajibu sikuja kuibadili bali kuiboresha {kwa maana hio kuongezea machache nakuendelea aliyoacha Moses.

    Moses alipewa amri kumi na mungu kwenye jiwe, na lugha iliyotumika wakati ule ilikua Hebrew.

    Katika kusoma historia ya hebrew ni kwamba miaka 1400 kabla ya kristo kulikua hakuna alphabet za hebrew.

    Max maswali yangu ni haya

    1.Kama Moses/Musa alipewa amri kumi za mungu na lugha iliyotumika ni hebrew, imekuaje imepishana uhai wake na amri kumi alizopewa.

    2. Kama alphabet za Hebrew zilikuja karne na karne baada ya uhai wa moses kuna mtu mwingine alipewa amri kumi za mungu?

    3.Moses wa kwenye bible na torat ni huyo huyo mmoja au wawili?

    4.Je kuna moses wa kabla ya yesu na wa baada ya yesu aliyepewa amri kumi za mungu?

    Kama utanijibu haya maswali manne tu, basi kuanzia leo nitaamini kwamba Torah, bible na quran ni vitabu vya kweli na nitaanza kufuata dini, lakini kama sijapata jibu lolote kuhusu huyu Moses tu, basi nitaamini kwamba vitabu vyoote vilifanywa kutungwa tu na wajanja.

    Ni mimi wako
    Kingunge
     
  2. Mshiiri

    Mshiiri JF-Expert Member

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    Swali zuri sana umelielekeza kwa Max BUT Unatakiwa kufikiri outside the box. Akili zetu wanadamu ni ndogo sana ikiwa sis pia ni sura na mfano wa Mungu basi akili zetu haziwezi kuweka kumbukumbu hata ya unywele wa Muumba. Nitafafanua. Sisimizi ni vigumu sana kukueleza tembo alivyo kwani kabla na akueleze hajui, completely nothing. It means we try to think rationally that God is like a very respected leader dwelling somewhere and that is where we always miss the point. All things are possible only through one God the Creator. Can reverse even your years and you see every day growing backward should HE want to.

    So re-think again all your claims and see where the truth lies.

    God can send you a message written in japanese and you will not need to learn japanese to read it. It is only possible in HIM.

    Thanks

    Wait to hear as well from Max
     
  3. MaxShimba

    MaxShimba JF-Expert Member

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    Thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to reply and/or answer your four (4) questions.

    Please be informed that, I will post answer to each question sepparately. The reason of replying all of your questions sepparatley is to reduce misunderstanding. Where comes necessary, I will teach you the ten commandments and why God had to bring then through Moses.
     
  4. MaxShimba

    MaxShimba JF-Expert Member

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    Answering question number one of darwin kuhusu lugha katika Aseret Hadiberot:

    According to the Jewish tradition claims, I repeat, the Jewish tradition claims, that the HEBREW SCRIPT used was Ketav Ashurit (Ikiwa inamaanisha kuwa ni "the classical Hebrew srcipt used in the Scriptures today), and not the older Ketav Ivri (Which was later written [by God] on the second set of the tablets that Moses hewed after he broke the original set)

    Sasa, kufuatana na [The Talmud (Hebrew: תַּלְמוּד) ambayo ni record ya rabbinic discussions pertaining to Jewish laws, ethics, customs, and history.] The sript God wrote the Ten Commandment was in Ketav Ivri (the older sript), instead of Ketav Ashurit (the divine script that was later restored by Ezra kwa Waisraeli). Hivyo basi, the Talmud Yerushalmi inaelezea kwamba ilikuwa ni Ayin ambayo was miraculously suspended in the tablets, na sio the final Mem and Samekh.


     
  5. MaxShimba

    MaxShimba JF-Expert Member

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    Darasa fupi kuhusu lugha ya Hebrew:

    Jina Hebrew (Ivrit) ni jina au lugha ya zamani kuliko zote "World's oldest languages.

    Jina hilio linatoka kwa Eber, Mtoto wa kivulana wa Shem;

    Shem anaitwa baba wa watoto wote wa Eber (Gen 10:21); and therefore Hebrew descendants are called Semites.

    In the Scriptures, Hebrew is used as an adjective to describe Jews who are "from other side" (ikiwa inamaanisha upande wa, of the Euphrates River), Modern Hebrew is called Ivrit.

    In Genesis 31:47, Laban and Jacob refer a heap of stones in their native speech. Laban uses phrase "Yegar Sahaduta" which is Aramaic, lakini Jacob anatumia "Gal-Ed" ambayo ni Hebrew.

    Wana wa Irasel walipo kuwa utumwani Misri, walitumia lugha ya Ketav Ivri until the Exodus from Egypt. Ambayo ilitumika mpaka mwisho wa Century ya 6 BC, ndipo Ketav Ivri walii replace na the Hebrew square script (Ketav Meruba ambayo inajulikana kama Ketav Ashuri)

    Kumbuka kwamba, Ketav Ivri ilitumika wakati wa kipindi cha the First Temple na kama symbol of nationalistic revival in the Second Temple Period.

    Hivyo basi, Jews wali adopt the Aramaic alphabet (Wakiwa chini ya uongozi wa Ezra the Scribe), Wasamaritans wao wali held to the original forms of proto-Hebrew, inasemekana ni kwasababu ya kuonyesha wao kama true heirs of Judaism. Kwasababu hiyo basi, Ezra aliamua kuchaguwa Aramaic square script (Called Ketav Ashuri amabayo inajulikana kwa jina lingine kama Ketav Meruba)

    Baada ya Babyloniana captivity, Ketav Ashurit was adopted by the Jews (chini ya uongozi wa Ezra the Scribe) na kuiita lugha takatifu au Leshon HaKodesh. Kama nilivyo sema mwanzo, hii ilifanywa ili kujitenga kutoka kwa Samaritanism.

    Hivyo basi, Aramaic characters were chosen as the official script for the Torah scrolls in the 5th Century BC (Ushaidi ni ule ulipatikana katika "the Dead Sea Scrolls (DSS) were written during a transitional period where both the older Ketav Ivri script is used with Ketav Ashurit.

    Natagemea umenielewa kuhusu utumizi wa lugha ya Ketav Ivri na Ketav Ashurit.

    Mwisho:
    Modern Hebrew ambayo inatumika leo hii Israel ili derives from Polish-German Jews.

    Note: Ladino (Judeo-Spanish) and Yiddish (Judeo-German) both evolved during the middle ages and use Hebrew characters for transliteration ONLY. Ladino uses a Rashi-style script wakati Yiddish wanatumia standard square script.

    Kwa wanaosoma lugha ya Ki Hebrania, wameigawanya katika sehemu nne (4).

    1. Biblical Hebrew aka Classical Hebrew. By the time of Jesus, Aramaic was the common language, but Hebrew was used in synagogues and in temple worship. Jesus knew and spoke Biblical Hebrew.
    2. Mishnaic Hebrew aka Rabbinic Hebrew; Talmud and Midrash ambayo ilitumika kuanzia 2nd Century AD.
    3. Medieval Hebrew _ Hii ilitumika kutafsiri Arabic works into Hebrew. Mfano Maimonides and other medievalists.
    4. Modern Hebrew- 19th Century to present.

    Kingunge darwin unaweza kuleta maswali kuhusu lugha tu. Tukimaliza lugha, tunaingia swali namba 2.
     
  6. D

    Darwin JF-Expert Member

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    Somo la theology linasema aliyepewa amri kumi za mungu ni Moses/musa/moshee, sio Karaito wa Japan.

    Pili Bible hiohio ndio inayosema lugha iliyotumika ni hebrew.
     
  7. D

    Darwin JF-Expert Member

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    Ahsante kwa ufafanuzi wa hebrew na aramaic lakini bado naona huo muda bado unapishana na uhai wa Moshee.
    Kumbuka kwamba pia, kama vitabu vya dini vinavyosema nikwamba Moshee aliishi kwenye {makadirio 1400 kabla ya kristo}

    Kuna hii pia uliyoandika
    Hii inachanganya kabisa

    Hao wakina Moshee walikua wangapi?

    Kuna Moshee aliyepewa kwa Aramaic na Moshee mwingine aliyepewa kwa Hebrew?
     
  8. MaxShimba

    MaxShimba JF-Expert Member

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    Hebu tuangalie kwanza vitabu vya mwanzoni vya Biblia, ni nani aliviweka katika kimaandishi au alama.

    The first five books of the Bible are attributed to Moses and are commonly called the Pentateuch (literally "five scrolls").

    Moses aliishi kati ya miaka 1500 and 1300 BC, though he recounts events in the first eleven chapters of the Bible that occurred long before his time (such as the creation and the flood). Tujiulize swali, Moses aliwezaje kuelezea mambo yaliyotokea miaka mingi kabla ya kuzaliwa kwake?

    Hebu tuangali hapa chini:
    These earliest accounts were handed on from generation to generation in songs, narratives, and poetry. Kumbuka kulikuwa hakuna maandishi.

    In those early societies there was no writing as yet and people passed on these oral accounts with great detail and accuracy.

    The earliest writing began when symbols were scratched or pressed on clay tablets. The Egyptians refined this technique and developed an early form of writing known as hieroglyphics. The Bible tells us that Moses was "educated in all the learning of the Egyptians", so he would have been familiar with the major writing systems of his time. Moses aliishi nyumbani kwa Farao, hivyo basi alipata benefits za Kifarao ikiwa ni pamoja na kujifunza communication skills zote za KiMisri. Misri wakati huo ilikuwa ni Dunia ya Kwanza. We also read that God gave Moses "two tablets of the Testimony, the tablets of stone inscribed by the finger of God"(Exodus 31:18). All this leads to the conclusion that the earliest writings in the Bible were set down around 1400 BC.

    The writings of the thirty or so other contributors to the Old Testament span a thousand years! They recount the times and messages from Moses' successor, Joshua, to the last of the Old Testament prophets, Malachi, who wrote his little tract around 450 BC.

    Then there is a 500-year period when no writings were contributed to the Bible. This is the period between the testaments, when Alexander the Great conquered much of the world and when the Greek language was introduced to the Hebrews. Indeed, they began to use Greek so much that the Hebrew language was replaced by Greek and by another language, Aramaic, which was spoken all over that area of the world at that time.

    Hivyo basi, Moses alikuwa na ufahamu na uelewo wa kusoma maandishi na kuandika kutokana na baraka za Kifarao alizo pata wakati akiwa Misri, tofauti na nduguzake ambao walikuwa Misri kama watumwa. Moses lived in the Kings Palace.

    Sasa, turudi kwenye lugha:
    Wana wa Irasel walipo kuwa utumwani Misri, walitumia lugha ya Ketav Ivri until the Exodus from Egypt. Ambayo ilitumika mpaka mwisho wa Century ya 6 BC, ndipo Ketav Ivri walii replace na the Hebrew square script (Ketav Meruba ambayo inajulikana kama Ketav Ashuri)

    Swali hapa ni kuwa, transition kati ya lugha hizi mbili ilichukuwa miaka mingapi na ilitokea wakati gani?

    Moses aliyepewa Aseret Hadiberot alikuwa ni Kaka ya Miriam na Mume wa Zipporah.

    Mwisho, naomba urudie kusoma post number 4 above.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2008
  9. D

    Darwin JF-Expert Member

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    Nitakuja na maswali mengi kutokana na post zako, hasa kuhusu hio hebrew.

    Hujanijibu kwanza kama ulivyoandika
    Hayo mawe yalikua mangapi?
    Walikua Moses wangapi waliopokea?
     
  10. MaxShimba

    MaxShimba JF-Expert Member

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    Moses aliyepewa Aseret Hadiberot alikuwa ni Kaka ya Miriam na Mume wa Zipporah.

    Genesis 31:45-47, it says:
    45Then Jacob took (AN)a stone and set it up as a pillar.

    46Jacob said to his kinsmen, "Gather stones." So they took stones and made a heap, and they ate there by the heap.

    47Now Laban (AO)called it Jegar-sahadutha, but Jacob called it [c]Galeed.


     
  11. MaxShimba

    MaxShimba JF-Expert Member

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    Please be informed that, the ancient Hebrew alphabet originally was written using a pictographic script.

    The Phoenician alphabet developed from the proto-Canaanite alphabet, which was created sometimes between the 18th and 17th centuries BC.

    Sasa basi, The Proto-Hebrew Script ambayo inaitwa vilevile early Aramaic Script, mfano ni lile Jiwe la Moabite. Hii lilikuwa Hebrew (Ketav Ivri) ambayo ilitumiwa na Jewish nation upto the Babylonian Exile.

    Accordingly, Moses the husband of Zipporah and the brother of Miriam was the one who received the Aseret Hadiberot.
     
  12. MaxShimba

    MaxShimba JF-Expert Member

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    Let me get it clear, is Torat in the Bible? Au Torah ipi unayozungumzia?

    Torah au torat ni nini?
    The Torah, or "Instruction," is also known as the "Five Books" of Moses, thus Chumash from Hebrew meaning "fivesome," and Pentateuch from Greek meaning "five scroll-cases."

    The Torah comprises the following five books:

    1. Genesis, Ge—Bereshit (בראשית)
    2. Exodus, Ex—Shemot (שמות)
    3. Leviticus, Le—Vayikra (ויקרא)
    4. Numbers, Nu—Bamidbar (במדבר)
    5. Deuteronomy, Dt—Devarim (דברים)

    Your question is defacto.
     
  13. MaxShimba

    MaxShimba JF-Expert Member

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    Maelezo yako kwenye thread hii, umesema "Moses ndiye aliyepewa amri kumi za Mungu.

    Moses alizaliwa {makadirio} miaka 1400 kabla ya kristo.
    Moses ndie aliyepewa amri kumi za munguKatika torat ndio wanaosema alionana na mungu macho kwa macho.
    Waislamu wanamuita Musa bwana wa mabwana.
    Yesu aliwahi kuulizwa je umekuja kuibadilisha torat ya Moses? akajibu sikuja kuibadili bali kuiboresha {kwa maana hio kuongezea machache nakuendelea aliyoacha Moses.
    Moses alipewa amri kumi na mungu kwenye jiwe, na lugha iliyotumika wakati ule ilikua Hebrew.


    Sasa soma tena swali lako number nne (4), halafu tafuta jibu kwenye thread yako mwenyewe, kama nilivyo quote hapo juu. Je, kuna Moses wangapi walio zungumziwa kwenye hii thread?

    Be blessed and enjoy your Christmass and New Year
     
  14. MaxShimba

    MaxShimba JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu Max Shimba, asante kwa elimu ya Ten Commandments na Lugha ya Kiebrania.


     
  15. bokassa

    bokassa JF-Expert Member

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    Kudadadek!!!!! Hata wazungu wenyee hawawezi hiyo!!!!
    Waafrika bwana, vere jiniazzzzzz!!! Vitoto vya kizungu vinaishia kusomea uchumi na sayansi tu!!!!!!!


    Merry X-Mas
     
  16. D

    Darwin JF-Expert Member

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    Max huoni kwamba unachanganya hapa?

    Yote haya does of course not affect the improbability of Moses sribbling in hebrew or the plausibility of his jotting down hieroglyphs.

    What's even more fun:
    tradition wants that the torah was given to the jews by Moses – a mere human you so despise as sourse of knowledge, no god. But what did they believe all those centuries before that happened, ignorant of genesis, exodus, leviticus, numbers and deuteronomy? And even then, they could impossibly believe all of the OT bible was still future.
     
  17. D

    Darwin JF-Expert Member

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    No, not whilst speaking but that was nor is the point. It's the engraving part where the need for alphabet is. Remember?
     
  18. MaxShimba

    MaxShimba JF-Expert Member

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    Do you know and/or remember when the pictographic script ended? Dou you remember the period of transition of pictographic to Ketav Ivri to ketav Meruba? How long did it take? When did it started?
     
  19. D

    Darwin JF-Expert Member

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    Max,
    Swali lilikua ni lugha gani ilitumika kuandika kwenye lile jiwe?

    Kama unakumbuka uliandika mwenyewe haya
    Halafu nilikuambia mwanzo kwamba kama utatumia aya kutoka kwenye bible ndio utajichanganya kabisa.
     
  20. MaxShimba

    MaxShimba JF-Expert Member

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    Read post number 4.
     
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