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Technical report about Loliondo, Uchakachuaji ni kila mahali jamani! Tutafika?

Discussion in 'JF Doctor' started by Mchapakazi, Apr 23, 2011.

  1. M

    Mchapakazi Member

    #1
    Apr 23, 2011
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    [FONT=&quot]Make sure you read the report attached and provide your insights in relation to the implementation of the research study, results and recommendations. I am inviting wanazuoni wote wa fani ya afya kusoma repoti hii na kuchangia kwa jinsi wanavyoona. Ni jukumu letu sote kuhakikisha jamii ya Kitanzania inapata taarifa sahihi na sio majungu ya kisiasa kama haya. Ina kurasa 23 peke yake na unaweza kuimaliza kwa dk 20 tu. [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Kama hujasoma hii taarifa unaweza kukosa uozo uliopo. Nimejaribu kuchanganua sehemu chache lakini mapungufu yapo kila mahali. Nimesikitishwa sana na ni matumaini yangu wahusika watasoma na kuelewa kuwa wapiga kura na walipa kodi wameona utumbo wao na hawakusita kuongea. Hii taarifa ilikuwa michuzi blog ila naona imeondolewa may be baada ya mkwara. Sio matarajio yangu kuwa itaondolewa hapa jamvini where we dare to talk. Naomba moderators mtupe nafasi ya kupunguza machungu yetu. [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]This document might be scientific but I think due to what I have perceived as deep political report it should have a place on the political arena of the forum. I declare no conflict of interest as I try to digest through the so called technical report. [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]These guys from the National research body engaged on a mission to accomplish four things identified on page 7 as terms of reference:[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]2.1 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Ethnomedical claims and use of the remedy in the immediate community[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]2.2 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Safety of the remedy as prepared and prescribed by Rev. Mwaisupile[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]2.3 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Efficacy of the remedy as per claims by Rev. Mwaisupile[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]2.4 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]System for clinical follow up of patients taking the remedy[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    They answered the first quest through literature review, although the review is shallow, full of copy and paste with no scientific flow we can forgive that given the level of English in the country. What we should not forgive and air our voices at the top decibel is the way they responded to the remaining 3 terms of reference. [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Of note on the introductory note they did not even take their camera to have pictures they can claim ownership on but rather collected images from online forums. I have seen all their pictures before, I did not see any disclaimer on the pictures which makes it theft of other people work! [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Achana na hiyo: Safety of the remedy as prepared by Rev Mwaisupile: As scientist I expected they will take their samples and go in the lab to give us the analysis of what is in the concoction but they ended up providing a very political summary:[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    From the documents:[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
    Previous toxicological investigation revealed Engamryaki to be
    generally safe. The median lethal dose (LD50) of Carissa edulis in the
    tested experimental mice was:[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    i. 282.8 mg/kg following intraperitoneal administration (Ya’u et al.,
    2008).
    ii. Over 5000 mg/kg following oral administration (Ya’u et al.,[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]2008).

    Conclusion: These results show the plant is safe especially when taken
    orally. The dose provided by Pastor Ambilikile Mwasupile, which is one
    cup (about 200 mls) prepared through boiling an estimated 3.0 kg of
    whole root material in 60 litres of water falls within safety window
    and no any overdose or acute poisoning event is expected.

    (How can you conclude like this?) I know this forum has scientists of various sectors. How on Earth can you do a research and judge like an old lady in a village measuring local brew? The two studies were done in mice. Per their search there are no toxicological data in human beings (Not sure).

    But how do they dare to extrapolate it all the way to human beings? Wapiga kura na mapanya ni sawa ziku hizi sio? They had a chance to visit the site and interview Pastor among other people at Samunge (though I could not see the results of their interview).

    Why didn’t they collect samples for evaluation? Probably by the time the drug is done there is nothing of the active ingredients.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    Efficacy of the drug per Rev Mwasupile[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]: This is the most crazy part with very weird conculusions. I think if this report went through the director’s desk before release and she gave it a go ahead then she does not know what she is doing. It is not uncommon to find plants with medicinal effects.

    The issue at a scientific aka technical level is if the drug is working as the pastor have said. His instruction is one cup you are done! Does this connect with antidiabetic activity which we know is ongoing and so the agent has to be in the system to work? Here are some of the horrendous conclusions I have ever seen:[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Anti-viral activity against herpes simplex virus[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Carissa [/FONT][FONT=&quot]extracts has been reported to [/FONT][FONT=&quot]possess potent antiviral activity against Sindbis virus (SINV) at 3 µg/ml, polio virus (POLIO) at 6 µg/ml, HIV-1 and herpes simplex virus (HSV) at 12 µg/ml (Tylor, 1996). Tolo et al., (2006) at Kenya Medical Research Institute (KEMRI) in Kenya, demonstrated that, an aqueous total extract preparation from the roots of Carissa edulis exhibited remarkable anti-herpes simplex virus (HSV) activity in vitro and in vivo.

    The extract significantly inhibited formation of plaques in Vero E6 cells infected with 100 PFU of wild type strains of HSV (7401-H HSV-1 & Ito-1262 HSV-2) and resistant strains of HSV (TK-7401-H HSV-1 &APr 7401H HSV-1) by 100% at 50 μg/ml in vitro with very low cell cytotoxicity (CC50 = 480 μg/ml).
    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Tolo et al., (2006) also demonstrated the in vivo efficacy in a murine model using Balb/C mice cutaneously infected with wild type or resistant strains of HSV, the extract at an oral dose of 250 mg/kg significantly delayed the onset of HSV infections by over 50%.

    It also increased the mean survival time of treated infected mice by between 28 and 35% relative to the infected untreated mice (p < 0.05 versus control by Students t-test). The mortality rate for mice treated with extract was also signi&#64257;cantly reduced by between 70 and 90% as compared with the infected untreated mice that exhibited 100% mortality. No acute toxicity was observed in mice at the oral therapeutic dose of 250 mg/kg. [/FONT]


    [FONT=&quot]Conclusion[/FONT][FONT=&quot]:[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

    This result reveals that Carissa edulis has potent anti-viral activity against herpes simplex viruses. Taking into consideration that, h[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]erpes simplex virus (HSV) infection is a major opportunistic infection in immunosuppressed persons, these findings[/FONT][FONT=&quot] supports the ethnomedicinal claim of the use of the plant in the management of HIV/AIDS as claimed by Pastor Ambilikile Mwasupile.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    What made my heart skip a bit is the way anti HSV activity from previous research has been used to justify anti HIV activity. These are two different pathogens. How is it related to the cure effect of babu! Jamani tumwogope Mungu.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Haya uwanja ndo huo[/FONT]
     

    Attached Files:

  2. p

    profkobayashi JF-Expert Member

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    Apr 23, 2011
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    jamii yetu ni copy and paste

    hakuna la zaidi

    bora wangewapa wa Kenya kuandika hiyo so called report
     
  3. MTAZAMO

    MTAZAMO JF-Expert Member

    #3
    Apr 23, 2011
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    People lets medical specialist help us on this issue. Tusijaze threads na comments za kisiasa hadi wataalamu wetu watapotufungua macho,this need indepth medical knowledge then kuanzia hapo political allegation zianze.Asante mkuu kwa ufafanuzi wa mwanzo.ubarikiwe.
     
  4. kipindupindu

    kipindupindu JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu umenifumbua macho!
     
  5. kipindupindu

    kipindupindu JF-Expert Member

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    Apr 23, 2011
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    Mkuu umenifumbua macho!
     
  6. Semilong

    Semilong JF-Expert Member

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    kweli hawa ma researcher wetu kiboko yani yeye ame qoute paper za watu wengine na ametumia results zao kufanya conclusion. Kwa nini wasingefanya uchunguzi kwa watu waliokunywa, haraka ya nini?
     
  7. G

    Gad ONEYA JF-Expert Member

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    Apr 23, 2011
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    2PhDs! Nimeisomaaaaaa, conclusion haitoki kwa wagonjwa wa kwa babu, lakini katika research za wengine, teh! Hii kali
     
  8. A

    Apollnary JF-Expert Member

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    Apr 23, 2011
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    Mchapakazi.....sijawahi kutoa heshima kwa mtu hapa jamvini,naomba uniruhusu niseme HESHIMA YAKO MKUU!
    Jana usiku niliipitia hiyo report kwenye blog ya michuzi....in general nilisikitishwa na jinsi walivyoiripoti(nashindwa kusema walivyoifanya,manake unaweza ukaona waliifanya kivingine,na wakairipoti kama tulivyoiona).
    Kuna tatizo ambalo ninadhani linatukumba Tanzania hivi sasa....nalo nadhani ni kwamba yaelekea wengi wetu vichwa vyetu vimeathiriwa na siasa zinazoendelea,na majibu ya chochote tunachoulizwa,ama zoezi tunaloambiwa tulitekeleze,tutajibu ama kulitekeleza kisiasa zaidi kuliko kifani,na majibu yetu yatategemea tuko katika mrengo gani ama tunataka kuwakilisha majibu ya kundi gani la wanasiasa.
    YALE MAJIBU YA RIPOTI KWA MAONO YANGU YAMETOA MAJIBU RAHISI SANA KWA MASWALI MAGUMU SANA.
    Ninakubaliana na jinsi walivyofikia majibu yao,LAKINI SIDHANI KAMA WAMETOA CONCLUSION INAYOENDANA NA UNYETI WA ZOEZI WALILOPEWA
    ukiwa katika shule ya sayansi za Tiba(udaktari,madawa etc),kuna kitu wanaita "Ripoti ya kisayansi" ama "Kazi ya Kisayansi".Pia kuna kitu kinaitwa" Uchunguzi wa Kisayansi",vyote viwili vinaweza kumfikisha mtu aweze kutoa conclusion,ingawa gharama ya kufanya ripoti ya kisayansi ama kazi ya kisayansi huwa ni ndogo sana ukilinganisha na Uchunguzi wa kisayansi.
    Sina hakika timu ya wataalamu ilipewa jukumu la kufanya uchunguzi ama kutoa ripoti ya kisayansi.....
    All in all,suala la Loliondo limekuwa na controversy nyingi sana,kiasi kwamba hata serikali inajikuta inakuwa katika wakati mgumu wa kujua nini ifanye.
    Lakini ukweli ni kwamba MAJIBU YA KINA YANAHITAJIKA,NA TENA YANAHITAJIKA HARAKA.Magonjwa ambayo Mchungaji mwaisapile anadai kuyatibu(Kisukari,HIV-AIDS,Cancer etc)yote yanahitaji dawa ama kuyafuatilia katika mpango endelevu bila ukomo maisha yote(kwa knowledge iliyopo).Mchungaji Mwaisapile anasema kikombe kimoja kinatosha,RIPOTI YA WANASAYANSI WETU HAIJAAINISHA NI KWELI HUO MCHANGANYO UNA EFFICACY YA KUTIBU(CURE)hayo magonjwa kwa kikombe kimoja(ama na wao wanataka kutwambia kuna added advantage ya miujiza?hapana,siwezi nikawakubalia wakinambia hivyo,kwani hawajatumwa kupima miujiza,wametumwa kutoa conclusion purely ya kisayansi)(.(Efficacy=kiasi cha uwezo wa kutibu KATIKA DOZI FULANI,INAYOTOLEWA KWA MUDA FULANI).SASA HII RIPOTI HAIJATOA KWAMBA NI KWA MUDA GANI DAWA HII INATAKIWA ITUMIKE NDO ILETE HIYO EFFICACY.TUNAHITAJI NA NI MUHIMU ILIKUWA KUPATA JIBU HILI HARAKA.WATU WANAENDELEA KUNYWA KIKOMBE NA KUACHA DAWA ZA HOSPITALI WAKATI HATUNA UTHIBITISHO THABITI KAMA WALE WANAOKUNYWA KIKOMBE WANAPONA NA HAWANA HAJA YA KUENDELEA NA DAWA ZA HOSPITALI.Ninakubaliana nawe MCHAPAKAZI kwamba vitu vingi sana( ama mimea kama ulivyosema) vina medicinal effect.Na pia si kweli kwamba ati mmea ukiwa na tabia fulani ya kutibu ati ndo uwe na uhalalisho wa kutumika kama dawa(ingawaje tunatambua pia dawa nyingi za kienyeji hazipitii trial zozote zaidi ya kwamba zilirithishwa,oteshwa nk)
    Wananchi wanaokwenda Loliondo,sijui kama wanaendelea ama La kutumia dawa zao.HII MIEZI MINNE YA "THE LOLIONDO MYSTERY"kama mTU aliyetoka huko ameacha kutumia dawa,itakuwaje?KISAYANSI TUNAJUA KWAMBA HAWA WATU WAKIACHA DAWA KWA MUDA FULANI,WATANYONG'ONYEZWA SANA NA HUO UGONJWA,NA WANAWEZA HATA KUFA,KAMA SI KUONGEZA GHARAMA YA KUWATIBU KUTOKA KWENYE HALI "MBAYA SANA "WALIYOIFIKIA WAKATI WANAKULA BATA YA "AFTER LOLIONDO CUP"
    MCHAPAKAZI,nimeifagilia sana review yako ya ripoti ile,kwani imekuwa ni SCIENTIFIC CRITICISM....nadhani unaweza hata kuwaandikia wale jamaa walioitoa hiyo ripoti ili iwasaidie kuona nini hasa wanatakiwa(kama kweli hawajui...yawezekana wanajua sana ila wametoa majibu ya kisiasa).
    Ombi langu la mwisho ni kwamba ujumbe wako ni mzuri,lakini pia umetumia lugha ambayo ni ya ki hasira kidogo....najua kwamba inaudhi sana kwa watu unaodhani hawatakiwi kutoa majibu ya namna ile halafu ukaona wameyatoa,...lakini nakushauri pia uwe unakuwa mvumilivu wa kujitahidi kuzuia temper....nina hakika una kipaji cha hali ya juu.....(unajua jana mimi nilivyosoma pale ile ripoti nikachukia,nikajiambia"Hivi hawa watu nao wametumia per diems kwenda kutupa ripoti ya namna hii!)..
     
  9. M

    Mchapakazi Member

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    Appolnary na wengine pole kwa lugha kali niliyotumia. Kwa mtu yeyote ambaye yupo kwenye field ya sayansi na anajua mambo yanavyotakiwa kufanyika atapata hasira sana akisoma hii taarifa ya hawa mapacha wawili wa NIMRI. Jambo lenyewe lina utata mkubwa na lingeweza kumalizwa kisayansi kwa muda mfupi tu. Hawakutaka kufanya hivyo ila kwa kufahamu au kutokujua wameamua kupotosha ukweli. Inauma sana hasa ukizingatia watu wengi wanakufa kila kukicha kutokana na complications za magonjwa yao sugu baada ya kuacha dawa kutokana na kikombe.
    MOHSW walikuwa na uwezo wa kupima UKIMWI watu waliokunywa dawa ili wapone UKIMWI na pia kufuatilia viral load zao baada ya kuacha dawa kutokana na kikombe, Trend ya viral load ni uthibitisho tosha kama virusi vyao ni controlled au vinaendelea kutesa.
    Ukiona uhalifu unatendeka halafu ukakaa kimya na wewe pia ni muhalifu. Nimeona nitumie elimu yangu kuweka mbele ya jamii mapungufu makubwa yaliyopo kwenye ripoti ya Loliondo. Ni matumaini yangu wataalu wangine wa madawa na tiba wataendelea kusema bila kukoma kuhusiana na mapungufu makubwa ya ripoti hiyo.
    Naomba radhi kama nimemkwaza yeyote haikuwa nia yangu.
    MChapakazi
     
  10. Susuviri

    Susuviri JF-Expert Member

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    Apr 23, 2011
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    Mchapakazi, kwanza kabisa nashukuru kwa ripoti kwani inatupa nafasi kuweza kujisomea ripoti halisi. Napenda niseme kuwa hawa PhDs wawili ni feki kabisa na hakuna anything original in their report just plain plagarism and leap of reasoning kama ambavyo umeeleza kwa ufasaha. Naomba niwashauri mfungue Google na kisha andikeni Carissa edulis na gongen search! Result za 5 za mwanzo ndo zimetumika katika ripoti hii, including paper of FK El-Fiky!
    Huu ni usanii mtupu! Nitaipitia na kuendelea kuchangia! Asante mkuu!
     
  11. M

    Mchapakazi Member

    #11
    Apr 25, 2011
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    Katika tembea tembea online nimekuta mkurugenzi wa NIMRI Mwele Malacela akiikana ripoti kupitia facebook na kusema kuwa ni literature review. Nilichoshangaa ni literature review gani inafanywa ikiwa na terms of reference na pia mahojiano na watu mbalimbali kama walivyoeleza kwe acknowledgment page.
    Wadau wa afya, research, madawa na vitu vingine mpo wapi? Au mimi sina imani ndo maana sioni wanachoona wengine.
    Msaada kwa tuta jamani ila mwenzenu uzalendo umenshinda.
     
  12. makoye2009

    makoye2009 JF-Expert Member

    #12
    Apr 25, 2011
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    Wewe unategemea nini kwa jamii ya Wabongo,jamii iliyokata tamaa????

    Kama Rais wako Kiwete alienda kunywa kikombe cha Babu Mwasapile baadaye wakafuatia Baraza lote la Mawaziri akiwemo Waziri wa Afya Mhe.Mponda unategemea ripoti hii iwe na majibu gan???

    Tanzania is doomed,we're finished! Hakuna nchi,hakuna serikali, hakuna chama,hakuna watu. Kwishne!
    Na Ole wao waliokunywa kikombe cha Babu Mwasapile kama kikombe cha Babu itakuwa ni SUMU INAYOUA POLEPOLE! Hakika itakuwa ni kulia na kusaga meno.Serikali yote itapukutika kuanzia Rais,Mawaziri,Makatibu wakuu, Wakuu (M)/(W) pamoja na Wananchi walalaho.

    Nani atalaumiwa???Serikali yote ya Kiwete itawajibika.Nachelea kuwa pengine haitakuwa tena madarakani maana wote watakuwa wamepukutika kwa sumu ya Babu ambayo Madaktari wetu,Wafamasia na Wanataaluma wa Fani ya Utabibu watakuwa wamewadanganya Watanzania!

    Hakika hii itakuwa ni aibu kwa Nchi yetu.

    Mungu ibariki Tanzania.
     
  13. K

    Kasana JF-Expert Member

    #13
    Apr 25, 2011
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    so the thing cures AIDS? Kadri wanavyochelewa kutoa tamko jamii inaangamia. People are dying kwenye foleni na wengi baada ya kupata kikombe, muda mwingi wa kuzalisha unapotea na hata resource nyingi zinapotea. Huku kwetu 'MOMA' kuna m2 anatibu kwa kijiko, imedisturb sana mahudhurio ya CTC
     
  14. Wed

    Wed JF-Expert Member

    #14
    Apr 25, 2011
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    "bora wangewapa wa Kenya ?????"
    inatia uchungu sana kuona unawatharau watanzania wote kiasi hiki. Je, kwa vile hawa "jamaa wameboronga", basi hakuna mtanzania mwingine yeyote, hata huyu aliyeibua mapungufu ya hii ripoti, mwenye uwezo wa kufanya utafiti unaoeleweka ? Je, unathani ni kile tu kinachotoka nje ya nchi ndicho kina-thamani ?

    Fikra za namna hii ni za hatari sana kwa nchi yetu kwani ndizo zimewafanya baathi ya viongozi wengi (political figures) kumilikisha wageni mali zetu wakithani kwamba hakuna mtanzania mwenye uwezo wa kufanya vizuri na tena kwa uaminifu. Please, let's avoid general and vague conclusions !!
     
  15. Wed

    Wed JF-Expert Member

    #15
    Apr 25, 2011
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    Natumaini upungufu mkubwa na ambao naweza kusema kwamba ni kosa kubwa la kitaaluma, ni hawa mabwana kutokuwahoji watu mbalimbali waliotumia hiii dawa ili kuona kama kweli kuna ambao wamepona baada ya matumizi ya hii dawa. Mbona hawakuenda kutembelea vituo vya afya na kwenye mahosipitalini ili kujua kama wapo watu ambao, baada ya kunya dawa, wamerudi kupimwa na hali zao zikaonekana kubadilika ??
     
  16. k

    kaiyurankuba Member

    #16
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    Wajinga ndio waliwao. I am surprised a government institution is endorsing this quackery! Again I am not surprised because it is Tanzania where anything goes! Hakuna kujali maisha ya watu na hakuna kuwajibika! No Efficacy test has been done on the concoction that the babu is dishing out, it is a national shame no wonder wanaibuka watoa vikombe kila wilaya! Hii ripoti ni upuuzi mtupu, haifuati protocali za utafiti wa kisayansi, it doesnt pass muster at all.
     
  17. ngoshwe

    ngoshwe JF-Expert Member

    #17
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    Kama hata wataalam waliotumwa kuchunguza ubora wa dawsa ya babu walipata kikombe,unategemea matokeo ya ripoti itakuwa negative?
     
  18. Zakumi

    Zakumi JF-Expert Member

    #18
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    Sijasomea mambo haya, lakini naona na nyinyi mnafanya makosa makubwa. Kwanza kilichoandikwa ni technical report. Technical report mara nyingi haindikwi kwa public consumption, inaandikwa kwa matumizi ya sponsors wa project or internal distribution.
     
  19. Hakikwanza

    Hakikwanza JF-Expert Member

    #19
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    Hapo ame ctrl+a then ctrl+c na kamalizia na ctrl+v kwenye research ya watu na baada ya kuedit tu vifungu kamalizia na ctrl+p ndio usomi wetu wa janjajanja tu
     
  20. Nyangomboli

    Nyangomboli JF-Expert Member

    #20
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    nyie nanyi jamani? tatizo ni nini? ukoloni na tai na suruali wametuletea then wakija na vikaptula twawaambia ati wanatembea uchi wanaharibu jamii ili hali wao ndo walitengeneza nguo hizo nasi tulikuwa tukitembea robo tatu uchi. ni kwamba kila kitu chetu ni feki na cha mzungu ni bora. waacheni watu wenye imani waende kwa huyu mzee wapone nanyi muende india mkapone na huyu babu muacheni jamani. hajalazimisha mtu aende. mbona kinafulani wengi wanavipindi hadi kwa matv na wanadai kuponya watu kwa kuwashika na kuwasukumiza hadi waanguke chini namuwasemi sana? nasikia kuumwa presha ngoja nije.
     
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