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Tanzania rejects EAC proposed land reforms

Discussion in 'International Forum' started by Invisible, Dec 3, 2008.

  1. Invisible

    Invisible Admin Staff Member

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    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2008
  2. Ladslaus Modest

    Ladslaus Modest JF-Expert Member

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    Kudos Mr. Mohammed Aboud.
    WaTanzania inapendeza kuwa na msimamao wa kikwetu. Ninamuunga mkono Mh. Aboud kwa kusema "hizo nchi nyingine za Kenya, Uganda, Rwanda na Burundi wafuate mfumo wa umilikaji ardhi wa kiTanzania" na sio waTanzania tuwafuate wao.

    Kwa maoni yangu: Kenya na Uganda wana agenda zao za siri kuhusu muungano wa Afrika Mashariki ambao wengine hatuujui.

    Kudos Tanzanians.
     
  3. N

    Njimba Nsalilwe JF-Expert Member

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    This article has made my day.

    Njimba
     
  4. Mr. Zero

    Mr. Zero JF-Expert Member

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    Hivi kwa nini kazi yetu ni kupinga tu?? Sijasikia hata siku moja TZ imekuja na hii proposal halafu wenzetu wakakataa ila kila siku nasikia kuwa tumekataa hiki tumekataa that. If we really want to be in it then we have to be in it. Why can't we come up with our own agendas????

    Hili suala la kwamba wakenya na waganda wanaagenda ambayo sis hatuijui ni ya kijinga na inatakakutuonyesha njisi gani tulivyo wavivu wa kufikiria. Kama kweli wenzetu wanaagenda ya siri, je WaTZ agenda yetu ni nini??????
     
  5. Alnadaby

    Alnadaby JF-Expert Member

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    There is an acute problem of land in Kenya,Uganda,Rwanda and Burundi.Kenya was the country which strongly opposed the EAC of the yester years and was the main reason of its disintergration.

    The times have now changed and Kenya now needs more land for her growing population and Tanzania is the only country which still has plenty of it .

    The agenda for the Common Market from our neighbour's perspective is to use our resources to provide good life for ther citizens.

    We have to be very cautious when dealing with them.
     
  6. Ngongo

    Ngongo JF-Expert Member

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    Wakuu kabla ya kukataa jambo lolote ni vyema kwanza kutafuta msingi wa kukataa jambo lenyewe.Watanzania tujiulize ni kwanini nchi zote za EAC kasoro Tanzania zinataka suala la ardhi liwe huru kwa wananchi wote wa EAC !.
    Kenya ina population ya 35 milion na eneo 580,370 sq km,Uganda 31 milioni na eneo 241,038 sq km,Rwanda 10 milioni na eneo 26,338 sq km,Burundi 9 milion na eneo 27816 sq km, nchi zote nne kwa pamoja zinajumla ya watu 84 milioni na eneo 875,562 sq km.
    Tanzania ina watu 36 milioni na ina eneo la 945,087 sq km.
    Sq km za nchi zote nne bado hazijafikia ukubwa wa eneo la Tanzania,population ya nchi zote nne ni milioni 84 kwa eneo 875,562 sq km.
    Msingi wa makelele yote hasa kutoka kwa ndugu zetu wakenya ni ardhi,nusu ya nchi ya Kenya ni jangwa,sheria za ardhi za Kenya ni mbovu kwasababu inamilikiwa na watu wachache ambao sasa wamekuwa wapiga kelele wazuri wa shirikisho{fast tracking}.
    Watanzania tunapaswa kuwa kitu kimoja kupinga kwa nguvu zetu zote suala la ardhi kuwa huru kwa wanchi wa EAC.
     
  7. Ngongo

    Ngongo JF-Expert Member

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    Tumewaambia wafuate sheria za ardhi za Tanzania
     
  8. DMussa

    DMussa JF-Expert Member

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    Rudia kusoma vzuri hiyo habari utaona reasons za kupinga na pia huyu naibu waziri katoa proposal kwamba hao wakenya, Waganda + Rwanda & Burundi wabadilishe mfumo wao ili ardi iwe ni mali ya uma.

    Nahisi kwamba wewe sio Mtanzania kwa hayo maneno niliyoyawekea bold!! Ajenda yetu ni kuingia katika muungano ambao hautaleta athari mbaya kwa nchi shiriki, hivi unafikiri tukiingia sasa hivi kwenye hii inayoitwa EAC integration tutaweza kufika 2010 bila kuvunjika??? So many issues still unclear...suala la Ardhi & ID cards kutumika kama pasi ni baadhi tu!!! Kenya haina serikali ya kudumu hapa wanapass time ifike 2012 wapate serikali, Uganda hata siwezi kuiongelea cos huyo M7 hawezi kutoka madarakani mpaka awe Rais/Mwenyekiti wa Jumuiya....sasa huu ubinafsi utatufikisha wapi????????

    We have our proposals lets discuss them sio kuleta maneno machafu kama ''ubishi wetu ni wa kijinga''.... "ooh sisi hatuna ajenda"..
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2008
  9. Freetown

    Freetown JF-Expert Member

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    QUOTED FROM INVISIBLE

    Highlited ndo msimamo wanaoutaka Watanzania.

    Mr Aboud said, “In Tanzania the land is public and feel okay with it. We also feel that our national identity card should remain. Why shouldn’t these other countries adopt our land laws.” Land in Kenya, Uganda, Rwanda and Burundi is largely privately owned but in Tanzania, ownership entirely belongs to the government.
     
  10. Freetown

    Freetown JF-Expert Member

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    huo ndo ukweli, yeyote ambaye haoni ukweli huu basi huyo siyo mtanzania
     
  11. Bongolander

    Bongolander JF-Expert Member

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    Tuna bahati this time tumekwepa kwa mara nyingine kwa kutumia kisingizio cha sera ya ardhi, lakini cha muhimu ni kuwa ni lazima tu-address root cause ya kutufanya tusite kupiga hatua. Serikali yetu isende kwa mkumbo tu ni lazima tuweke infrustructure ya kunufaika na jumuiya. Lazima na sisi tuwe na uzalishaji na exports za maana na za kutosha kwenye kwenye nchi za jumuiya, kama Kenya inavyofanya kwetu. Na sisi tuweze kwenda kununua ardhi Kenya kama wao wanavyonunua kwetu. Kuikwepa jumiya kiujanjaujanja bila kuadress tatizo hakutatufikisha mbali. Kwa sasa poa kabisa.
     
  12. LazyDog

    LazyDog JF-Expert Member

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    Spot-on!






    Sioni haja tena ya kutafuta jibu la hilo swali. Kufuatia ung'ang'anizi wao huu - agenda yao ni nini?


    Kuna ishara mbaya sana kwenye hili shirikisho inajitokeza. Majirani zetu, kwa bahati mbaya sana wanawaza namna ya kunufaika kutoka kwa mwenzake. Nilitegemea wangekuwa na mtizamo wa namna ya kunufaika (collectively) kwa kuunganisha nguvu za nchi zetu. This is very sad indeed!

    Hivi kuna wazo la kuwa na jeshi la pamoja?
     
  13. Ab-Titchaz

    Ab-Titchaz Content Manager Staff Member

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    Wakuu JF,

    Japo nam-support Mhe. Mohammed Aboud,Tanzania Deputy Minister for East African Cooperation I take issue with this comment:

    Either simuelewi lakini I think for one, that is a very scary scenario tukijua jinsi
    serikali inavyoendesha maswala yake hususan swala ya ufisadi na 'nchi kuuzwa'.

    Pili kama sijakosea sidhjani swala la serikali ku-own entire tracts of land ni
    utamaduni wetu.If anything this is a direct result of colonial land policies that
    abound in Africa.

    Before colonialism landholding was based on customary laws of the different tribes in Tanzania (takriban 120). Claim to land was based on traditions and customs of respective tribes. Ownership of land was communal, owned by family, clan or tribe. Chiefs, headmen and elders had the powers of land administration in trust for the community. These powers continued through the colonial era though they were limited by the newly introduced German and later British land tenure system under which all lands were declared to be crown and public lands respectively. The customary land tenure is still in place, but since 1963 the chiefs, headmen and elders have been replaced by elected village councils.

    Tukiji-refresh kihistoira tunakuta 2 important decress by the Germans (The Imperial Decree of 1895) na The British (Land Ordinance Cap 113).The Germans declared that all land, whether occupied or not was treated as unowned crown land and vested in the Empire, except claims of ownership by private persons, chiefs or native communities which could be proved.The British nao declared all lands, whether occupied or unoccupied as public lands, except for the title or interest to land which had been lawfully acquired before the commencement of the Ordinance,were vested under the control of the Governor to the held for use and common benefits of the natives.

    Katika hizi decrees zote mbili hawa mabwana wakaleta kziungu eti kuna tofauti
    kati ya Calims of Occupancy na Rights of Occupancy.In the former walihitaji documentary evidence na the only people who colud do this walikua the settler commercial farmers.The locals could only provide evidence of cultivation of the land and therefore were granted some restrictive rigths to occupancy.

    Kwa kawaida za kanuni za ubinadamu, serikali ilibidi ibadili huu mfumo wa hali ya swala la ardhi na nadhani kama sijakosea 1995 kukawa na National Land Policy ambayo ilisema in part there was need to:

    a) Accommodate changes in land use and increase in human population;

    b) Control large stock population which increases demand for grazing land and creates serious land degradation;

    c) Protect the environment from extension of cultivation to marginal areas;

    d) Reduce conflicts in landuse between agriculturalists, livestock keepers, forest areas, wildlife areas, water sources and miners;

    e) Provide for increased urbanization requiring lands for settlements, industries and commerce and preserve valuable agriculture land;

    f) Facilitate prospective investors who require land as a result of liberalization of the economy and investment promotion;

    g) Regularise and confirm the effects of the villagisation programme, the Operation Vijiji (1973 – 1976) on customary land tenure;

    h) Protect individual land rights under a pluralistic political system since 1992 and

    i) Accommodate Appeal Court decision affirming customary land tenure rights of the local people.


    Bw Mh. Mohammed Aboud,

    Where am I going with this?...Point yangu nikuwa our Land Reform policy has taken a different direction than what you postulated out there.Either it is by design to make these kind of mistakes or its by sheer ignorance.I hope its the former and for political purposes.

    Meanwhile lets not forget that according to the Land Act No.4 and Village Land Act No.5 passed by Parliament in 1999 (which have been operation since May, 2001) the entrenched fundamental principles of the new Land Laws are among others :

    (i) To recognize that all land in Tanzania is public land vested in the President as trustee on behalf of all citizens;


    Unatupotosha kwa kusema that...in Tanzania, ownership entirely belongs to the government..Who is the Govt by the way? Si hio nd'o sababu mojapo kuu hizi kesi za ufisadi zinashindikana kuprosecute..the existence of such ambigous terms like State 'Sponsored' au 'Govt authorized'.

    Kwa hivyo waambie hao mabwana hatutaki huo muungano kwa kulingana na hali ilvyo kwa sasa.Use some diplomatic language to send a firm message that Tanzania is not ready for this thing.Ukitoa maelezo kama uliotoa basi yu expose a level of ignorance or craftiness.

    Shukran.
     
  14. N

    Njimba Nsalilwe JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu Kenya ardhi pamoja na mito yote inamirikiwa na watu binafsi, nimesoma sehemu almost 10%, Kenyatta family pekee inamiki asimia fulani ya ardhi ya Kenya kutoka Mombasa mpaka Mlima Kenya.

    Sasa utanunua wapi? Kaskazini ndio huko hakukariki. Kenyatta University ilijengwa kwenye ardhi ya Kenyatta family.

    Ukitaka kujua vizuri Kenya nenda kaishi nao na sio Nairobi. Nairobi haiwakilishi the real Kenya.

    Kwa suala la ardhi lazima liwe kigezo chetu cha kukataa huu ushirika wenye mashaka.

    Njimba
     
  15. Ladslaus Modest

    Ladslaus Modest JF-Expert Member

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    Mpendwa Mr. Zero; wewe ni mTanzania au ni mKenya?
    maneno yako yanaonyesha kuwa wewe sio mTanzania.
     
  16. Peasant

    Peasant JF-Expert Member

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    That's very good analysis Ngongo!
     
  17. Peasant

    Peasant JF-Expert Member

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    What do you expect from someone going by the name of ZERO? In practice ZERO=Nothing
     
  18. MwalimuZawadi

    MwalimuZawadi JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu Zero
    Ajenda? Ajenda yetu ni kukataa sera zisizo na manufaa.
    Kuna mtu ninabishana nae kuhusu msimamo wa Watanzania na usahihi wake, inawezekana kuwa ni PACHA wako. Kwa ushauri wa haraka, jaribu kutatua matatizo ya kwenu kabla hujarukia ya wengine. Kwa ushauri zaidi fuata maelekezo ya Wakuu Ladslaus Modest, DMussa na wengineo wenye mrengo huo
     
  19. Mr. Zero

    Mr. Zero JF-Expert Member

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    We mjima acha ujinga wako hapa. Tatizo lako unafikiria kishambashamba ndiyo maana huna argument zaidi ya ku-support wenzako. Aandika mawazo yako mwenyewe ili tujuwe kuwa una akili au ni peasant wa kwelikweli. Sina time na wewe, nenda kalime.

    For others, point yangu actually haizungumzii hiyo land reform. Ninachozungumzia hapo ni EAC kwa ujumla. Kama sisi tunaona hatutanufaika kwa nini basi tusijitoe mapema badala ya kupoteza pesa za walipa kodi bila sababu then tujiunge wakati utakapokuwa muafaka. Hata UE ilipoanza UK hawakujiunga waliangalia kwanza situation then wakajiunga baadaye.


    Ardhi peke yake siyo issue kwenye jumiya. Kama TZ tumekubali kuwa Federation by 2013 kwa nini leo tusikubali integration. Integration ni process towards the Federation. Wakati SADC wanzungumzia swala la FTA na integration TZ ndiyo tulikuwa wa kwanza kusaini.

    So far kuna land reform inayoendelea TZ . Badala ya ku-complain tungetumia experience yetu kuwasaidia wenzetu ili wananchi wao wawe na ardhi. After all tatizo la aridhi TZ lisha anza kujitokeza. It is just a matter of time. Ndiyo maana unaona akina Yona na Mramba viwanja vyao vina thamani ya mabillion already.
     
  20. Mshiiri

    Mshiiri JF-Expert Member

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    Kweli hapo kwa ardhi ya akina Yona kuwa na dhamani hiyo wakati ardhi ni mali ya serikali je hapa hakuna sheria inapindishwa kweli? What makes so high the price kwa kitu amabcho si cha mtu binafsi isje kuwa hawa jamaa walipewa ardhi au Rombo yote ni ya mramba? Kuna nini juu ya hii ardhi kama ni plain ardhi na ikiwa tunajua ardhi ni mali ya serikali na chini ya mamlaka ya rais, je wanasheria wanaweza kuona kuwa adrhi pori tu ni dhamana?
     
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