Dismiss Notice
You are browsing this site as a guest. It takes 2 minutes to CREATE AN ACCOUNT and less than 1 minute to LOGIN

Tanzania not ready kwa Soko la EAC

Discussion in 'International Forum' started by Bongolander, Nov 3, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Bongolander

    Bongolander JF-Expert Member

    #1
    Nov 3, 2009
    Joined: Jul 10, 2007
    Messages: 4,880
    Likes Received: 23
    Trophy Points: 135
    I am of the same opinion with those who question the wisdom of our government on this matter. They know that the concept is noble but the problem is they have not prepared the country for common market challenge. Leo ukiniambia nichague kuajiri Mkenya au Mtanzania, for a hundred reason nitaajiri Mkenya, i am sure there are many who think like me. Given this, just think what will happen to Tanzanians if Kenyans were allowed to flow to Tanzania. And what will happen to Tanzanians who will go to Kenya kama hawajwa machinga tu. Here are some of the views fro Profesa Lipumba.

    ..........................................

    Politicians, economists, academicians and the general public yesterday expressed mixed feelings on the agreement reached by the East African member states on the Common Market Protocol, which is to be signed by the heads of state next month.
    In an interview Civic United Front national chairman Prof. Ibrahim Lipumba said in establishing any business land was a very important aspect to consider.
    “Land is a major resource in establishing any business, so having neighbours such as Kenya and Uganda who are currently involved in land conflicts may leave Tanzania with no land to undertake commercial farming,” he said.
    “We are not yet prepared for the common market, which means free movement in capital, labour and the right to establish businesses. Without land you can not establish a farm business and due to the fact that Kenya has land problems its people will come to buy our land,” Prof. Lipumba added.
    He said the agreement would put at risk even the few jobs that Tanzanians have as Kenyans and Ugandans, who are better English speakers, would grab all the plum jobs.
    Prof Issa Shivji said that the country should first look into local production before signing the East African Common Market. According to him, the country would never develop if the local market was killed.
    He said: “Since the common market has been fuelled by political interests, it is better for our governments to first form a political federation, then introduce a common market.”
    Prof. Abdallah Safari said: “According to my understanding the common market would benefit countries with more industries because they will control the market.”
    NCCR-Mageuzi chairperson James Mbatia said to have a common market protocol in place was a good start, though Tanzania was not ready for it.
    He cited the European Union, saying economic integration was introduced in 1948, though not all members joined at first.
    “Other members joined when they were ready. As you can see, the current EU has only 27 members. Others are still joining, so why are we in a hurry while many Tanzanians were not involved in the matter?” he asked.

    SOURCE: THE GUARDIAN TANZANIA
     
  2. Smatta

    Smatta JF-Expert Member

    #2
    Nov 3, 2009
    Joined: Nov 5, 2008
    Messages: 2,231
    Likes Received: 140
    Trophy Points: 160
    I had posted a thread yesterday before it was brought down for reasons not known to me, the post showed how much trade had improved between our countries, it also quoted your P.M saying that we need to fast track the East Africa Community because he couldn't wait for the full implementation of the community (not his words exactly). I Thought the PM represented Tanzanians, what I sense is just fear of the unknown, you dont know what will happen when the borders are opened for all and sundry, you feel that you'll be shortchanged, am sure this wount be the case, open your hearts coz the time has come.
     
  3. J

    JokaKuu Platinum Member

    #3
    Nov 3, 2009
    Joined: Jul 31, 2006
    Messages: 10,775
    Likes Received: 979
    Trophy Points: 280
    Smatta,

    ..Prime Minister Mizengo Pinda does not speak for the ppl.

    ..Tanzanians objected to EAC and their views were clearly expressed when they spoke before members of Prof.Mwita Samuel Wangwe's Commision.

    ..Mizengo Pinda visited Kenya and Raila akampa zawadi ya ngombe wachache and since then amekua akiimba sifa za EAC.

    ..nasubiri reaction ya Wabunge bcuz I believe the EAC protocols[land,abolition of national identification, free movement of labor] have to be discussed and endorsed by respective parliaments b4 they become Law.
     
  4. J

    JokaKuu Platinum Member

    #4
    Nov 3, 2009
    Joined: Jul 31, 2006
    Messages: 10,775
    Likes Received: 979
    Trophy Points: 280
    ..hii idea ilipigwa chini kiasi cha wajumbe kuanza kuwatuliza wananchi.

    ..hata wananchi wanaoishi mipakani haswa Kagera na Kigoma walikataa hii kitu.

    ..viongozi wetu are not being honest with the rest of EAC members.

     
  5. The Quonquerer

    The Quonquerer JF-Expert Member

    #5
    Nov 4, 2009
    Joined: May 14, 2009
    Messages: 781
    Likes Received: 2
    Trophy Points: 0
    Lakini Smatta, why do you prefer to cooperate with a neighbor who is unwilling. Isn't it a time bomb? . You know it very well that poloticians are not necessarily there for the people. Hapa tuna matatizo ya mikataba mibaya ya madini, nishati, the list is endless, ila wanaoumia ni watanzania, na mikataba iliingiwa na viongozi. Am sure even in Kenya, viongozi hawapo kwa maslahi ya mkenya, hata kidogo, only when it's by chance na ndiyo maana John Githongo, your own whistleblower alikimbia to escape the wrath of Kenyan mafisadi.Hii haina tofauti na haya ya EAC! Viongozi Si watu wa kuamini moja kwa moja. Fuata njia ndefu ili ufike salama, usipende kupita mkato! Watanzania hawataki, and ur forcing it. It's even a pity being a Kenya's neighbor. Wakikwambia kwenda Somalia, kwa nini hutaki. Angalia, tamaa mbele, mauti nyuma. na tamaa ya fisi, ilimponza akapasuka mara mbili. Why can't you develop in your own country?. Unajua kitakachotokea watu wakilazimishwa? We don't need bloodshed in this country! Kuwa na majirani desparate ni tatizo kubwa! Tanzanians know your history. Come at your own risk! Sina sababu yoyote ya msingi kupenda wakenya wakiwa Tanzania. Nitawapenda wakiwa kwao. Tabia zenu ni mbaya, mna roho mbaya...ukiwa na roho mbaya utasema unaonewa. Wapo wenye maslahi na Kenya wanaowapenda, sikatai..but it will be short lived. I don't have a problem with other neighbors. We can only accomodate only a handful of you, kwa ajili ya ujirani mwema, not a mass exodus. NA FEDERATION HAITAKUWEPO KAMWE, DAIMA NA MILELE,AMINA! Kenya unemployment rate: 40%, Tanzania: 13%. Why, our land is cushioning the otherwise grave problem. Na ni matokeo ya siasa ya kuona mbali ya Mwalimu.
     
  6. The Quonquerer

    The Quonquerer JF-Expert Member

    #6
    Nov 4, 2009
    Joined: May 14, 2009
    Messages: 781
    Likes Received: 2
    Trophy Points: 0
    We even have to know, hivi Viwanda tunavyosema majirani zetu wa Kaskazini wanavyo, ni category ipi? Nijuavyo mimi kuna primary processing, intermiate goods processing na capital goods. Je wao ni vipi?, vinawatosha,? kama ndivyo why higher unemployment rate? Nchi zetu bado zinategemea nature for survival, with low level of skilled manpower, hivyo kuongeza population pressure when there meagre resources ni kutengeneza matatizo mengine. Mexico imefaidika na Marekani, jirani zao wa north kutoka na utajiri wa viwanda. Je na sisi hiyo scenario ina-apply?, au ni kujitishwa mzigo wa misumari ilhali mtu ukijua una kipara. Kuuzunguka mbuyu ni rahisi kuliko kuukumbatia, bora tuuzunguke.
     
  7. Bongolander

    Bongolander JF-Expert Member

    #7
    Nov 4, 2009
    Joined: Jul 10, 2007
    Messages: 4,880
    Likes Received: 23
    Trophy Points: 135
    Smatta, we do love Kenyans. Although we had differences but we think that for some reason we are connected by our hips. BUt do not listern to the rhetoric uttered by our politicians, most of it is crap. They know that the concept is noble, but they know very well that they have not prepared the nation for free market challenges. Ukianiambia leo nichague kuajiri kati ya Mkenya na Mtanzania nitachagua Mkenya, kwa sababu ambazo ni obvious, and am sure many of us think the same way.
    Can you imagine if we let you guys in with all your money and skills, we will be nothing. Sasa hivi Kenya tunauza ngano nyie mnatuuzia bia, what kind of trade is this? We sell more carrots and maize to you and you sell finished goods to us, do you call this trade? or a joke.?
     
  8. B

    Bulesi JF-Expert Member

    #8
    Nov 4, 2009
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Messages: 6,257
    Likes Received: 243
    Trophy Points: 160
    Please do not pin your hopes on these members of parliament the majority of whom are CCM stooges.They will follow whatever their chama tells them; watapewa takrima halafu kazi kwisha. Uliona wakati wa uchaguzi wa wabunge wa Afrika Mashariki wale waliowahonga ingawa walikuwa na PH.D feki kama za wakina Nchimbi ndio waliochaguliwa!! Wabunge wetu sio good role models!!
     
  9. Smatta

    Smatta JF-Expert Member

    #9
    Nov 4, 2009
    Joined: Nov 5, 2008
    Messages: 2,231
    Likes Received: 140
    Trophy Points: 160
    I would just like to ask one question to Kanyabwoya (damn this ni99a hates us passionately), Bulesi, Bongolanda and the rest of y'all, ''the day when there will be free movement of labor, and I wont need a passport to travel to TZ, will you fight me? Will there be xenophobic attacks on Kenyans living in your cities? will you boycott buying products from Kenya, do you think we will take that sitting down?''

    Am so sure with or without your consent, this thing will be fast tracked and just under your noses, it will be signed and made law, if not, the law will be watered down to accommodate some (not all) of the contentious issues i.e land, labor e.t.c Do you think that all the money put into the federation will just go down the drain just because an illiterate bloke in Morogoro thinks his land will be taken away from him, and another one in Moshi thinks that his mobile phone shop will be attacked and robbed by Kenyans once the community is fully operational, or he'll be out of business because the Kenyan sales his stuff cheaply?

    Think again, this world is not for the weak and afraid, its for the risk takers and the brave, where only the strong survive, and it has been proven over time that you are weaklings just trying to play safe by postponing this federation, I wish we didn't need you, but now that we do, I dont think we have a choise but to drag you along with the rest of us.

    WACHENI UWOGA JAMANI.
     
  10. Smatta

    Smatta JF-Expert Member

    #10
    Nov 4, 2009
    Joined: Nov 5, 2008
    Messages: 2,231
    Likes Received: 140
    Trophy Points: 160
    You started so well, talking logic and stuff, dropping knowledge, almost had me convinced there, but when the empty rhetoric started on how you cant live with Kenyans in the same place and such uncouth stuff, then your illiterate side started showing, you can't hide that factor can you? Those illetracy tentacles keep showing no matter how much you try and hide them. Go get an education son, maybe you will learn that hating people just because they compete with you in getting bread is the most uncivilized thing this century, not forgeting hating people just because of their nationality is simply sickening. Pull that skirt back down and grow a set, thought you was a man, men never fear competition, they thrive by it. DAYMN
     
  11. J

    JokaKuu Platinum Member

    #11
    Nov 4, 2009
    Joined: Jul 31, 2006
    Messages: 10,775
    Likes Received: 979
    Trophy Points: 280
    Smatta,

    ..you need to sell the idea of EAC and not tell ppl off.

    ..they oppose the EAC bcuz they believe there will be no benefits for them.

    ..It is the same way Kenyans dont want to unite with Ethiopia or Somalia bcuz they dont find that attractive.

    ..umetukana watu hapa kwamba ni illiterates, sasa naomba ufungue DARASA la benefits za EAC kwa MTANZANIA wa kawaida so that end they will support the union.

    ..WHY SHOULD WE FOLLOW THE EU MODEL AND NOT NAFTA MODEL?

    ..USA is against free movement of labor, or free access to land, kati yao na Mexico. I have never heard any one equating Americans to illiterates or cowards.
     
  12. J

    JokaKuu Platinum Member

    #12
    Nov 4, 2009
    Joined: Jul 31, 2006
    Messages: 10,775
    Likes Received: 979
    Trophy Points: 280
    ..this thing has made me think for a little bit.

    ..siamini kwamba Watanzania wanaogopa competition.

    ..what i believe is that Tanzanians want fairness and equity in EAC.

    ..tuangalie kwenye suala la employment. Tanzania tulibadilisha sheria zetu na Kiswahili kuwa medium of instruction in primary school. over the yrs that has affected the standard of English as one climbs up the academic lader.

    ..things have really changed since the goverment ceased to be the largest employer of our university graduates. lack of english skills has really bcome a disadvantage to Tanzanians in the job market in their OWN COUNTRY.

    ..hawa Watanzania wanaolalamika did not do anything wrong. infact the did what thet were asked to do.they were told Swahili will be supreme in this country, and were asked to learn the language, and they did it with all their hearts.

    ..lets flip the Tanzania situation and apply it to Kenyans and Ugandans. what if it is declared that within 2 yrs Swahili will be the medium of instruction in all primary schools in EA. all teachers have to reapply for the jobs, and interviews will be conducted in Swahili, by Swahili speakers.

    ..hivi mna hakika in that situation Kenyan and Ugandan teachers will be as confident, and optimistic, with their job prospects as their Tanzania counterparts?

    ..siyo kwamba Watanzania do not want to apply themselves. siyo kwamba Watanzania wanaogopa watakuwa out-worked or out-hussled na wenzao. wanachotaka Watanzania ni a leveled playing field ktk job market.

    ..pia kama tunataka kuwa KITU KIMOJA, AFRIKA MASHARIKI MOJA, NDUGU MOJA, basi hiki kilio cha Watanzania ningetegemea kingewagusa hata na wenzetu wa Kenya na Uganda. statements za watu kama Smatta kwamba ppl are just illiterate, or they lack confidence, paints a picture of someone who is arrogant and doesnt care.

    NB:

    ..sisi Watanzania ndiyo majority ktk hii EAC, now why when we bring our concerns to the table we are just being labeled with all sorts of names kama illiterates au waoga?
     
  13. Wacha

    Wacha JF-Expert Member

    #13
    Nov 4, 2009
    Joined: Nov 23, 2006
    Messages: 852
    Likes Received: 11
    Trophy Points: 35
    Muda mzuri wa kuungana na Kenya ni wakati watakapoacha kuuana kama Kima. (Hata mwaka haujaisha walikuwa kwenye mauaji ya kikatili) Leo ati Kenya wanataka kutuchagulia cha kufanya? Ni viwanda vipi wanavyoringia? Uchumi wa Kenya uko controlled na majority British citizens wao waendelee kuota tu na kuwa watumwa wa waingireza. Mtu mzima na akili yako unakuwa huna lugha ya kujivunia na kukumbatia rangi, angalia Japan, China, Sweeden, pamoja na nchi nyingi za ulaya wanajivunia lugha zao. Hebu niambie Kenya mnajivunia nini mungiki? We Smata ushukuru watanzania wanakukarimu na kaji kazi kako hako unakoringia, leo hii ukiambiwa urudi kwenu hutaki? Ukumbuke unapata hiyo kwa kuziba nafasi ya mtanzania na kumbuka iko siku tutawafukuza tu. Bado hatujasahau jinsi mlivyodhulumu EAC assets.
     
  14. J

    JokaKuu Platinum Member

    #14
    Nov 4, 2009
    Joined: Jul 31, 2006
    Messages: 10,775
    Likes Received: 979
    Trophy Points: 280
    Wacha,

    ..najua language aliyotumia Smatta siyo nzuri.

    ..sasa ili kuonyesha kwamba sisi siyo illiterate au waoga kama anavyofikiri tuwe waangalifu na majibu tunayompatia.

    ..madai ya Watanzania ni muhimu sana and please lets not get distracted na dharau za watu kama Smatta.

    ..haya madai yetu yanapaswa kuwa-addressed na viongozi wetu kuanzia Juma Mwapachu,Deuderious Kamala, Mizengo Pinda, Dr.Shein,na Dr.Lt.Col.Jakaya Kikwete.
     
  15. Smatta

    Smatta JF-Expert Member

    #15
    Nov 4, 2009
    Joined: Nov 5, 2008
    Messages: 2,231
    Likes Received: 140
    Trophy Points: 160
    Why are you overlooking what Kanyauboya posted prior to my reply. my post was in retaliation to his vulgar talk, you cant expect me to jst stay level headed after his post. i respect everybody and expect to be respected in return. am Kenyan and proud to be one, so dont think i'll just relax while someone threatens me, try me.
     
  16. J

    JokaKuu Platinum Member

    #16
    Nov 4, 2009
    Joined: Jul 31, 2006
    Messages: 10,775
    Likes Received: 979
    Trophy Points: 280
    Smatta,

    ..wewe si ulisema ni Mu-East Africa, kumbe bado ni Mkenya and proud to be one?

    ..anyway, you definetely didnt use the opportunity that arose to show the good and civil side of Kenyans.

    NB:

    ..the way the EAC issue is being handled, some ppl in Tanzania feel like they are being attacked.

    ..I hope watapatikana good salesmen wa huu mpango wa EAC.
     
  17. N

    Nego Member

    #17
    Nov 4, 2009
    Joined: Oct 25, 2006
    Messages: 55
    Likes Received: 0
    Trophy Points: 13
    For a better return for my investments, i would prefer having the opportunity to pick the best brain from across Africa, leave along East Africa, without hurdles. For any businessman, EAC is the best... for those who fear FEAR, let them know that they cant continue to hide for ever, reality will expose them!
     
  18. Bongolander

    Bongolander JF-Expert Member

    #18
    Nov 5, 2009
    Joined: Jul 10, 2007
    Messages: 4,880
    Likes Received: 23
    Trophy Points: 135
    Smatta our fears are justified. Kenya still has a lot of advantages, and she will reap a lot of benefits from common market. Sababu ni kuwa Kenya has a better indistrial base than Tanzania, wakenya are well preapared than Tanzanians for opportunities and challenges that will come with it. This is a fact which even you Kenyans know it.

    Mnajua kabisa kwamba wanasiasa have ruined our beloved country, na wewe uko humu unaona first had what they are doing. Uoga wetu unatokana na ukweli kuwa sisi ni kama panya ni vigumu sana kuweka urafiki na paka, inabidi na sisi tuwe paka kwanza ili sote tuweze kwenda pamoja kukamata panya.

    I have never heard Tanzanians being xenophobic. Hata kama siku moja tukiwa xenophobic hatuwezi kuwa xenophobic kwa wakenya. Wakenya ni kama ndugu zetu. Na ndugu hata kama humpendi au hamuelewani bado ni ndugu, kuna kitu kinawaunganisha ambacho hamuwezi kukiondoa. We love Kenyans dude, we really do.

    But admit the fact that Tanzania is not ready, do not listen to PM Pinda or other politicians. The realities of our economy tells otherwise.

    Kwani sasa ukitaka kuja Tanzania nani anakukataza? au ukitaka bibi wa kitanzania nani anakukataza? Hata Masai ya Kenya inakuja Tanzania bila hata passport na wala haitumi border crsossing, wanatumia Panya routes, kwa hiyo ujue ni kwamba hatuwachukii wakenya.

    We are just afraid of your economic machine which is way stronger than ours.
     
  19. K

    Koba JF-Expert Member

    #19
    Nov 5, 2009
    Joined: Jul 3, 2007
    Messages: 6,064
    Likes Received: 435
    Trophy Points: 180
    ...haya mawazo ya kijima sijui lini watanzania mtayaacha,wenzenu wanaungana na kuhangaikia union kama hizo za kibiashara nyie visingizio kibao na kipuuzi tuu,hamtaki kufanya biashara na majirani zenu sijui mnataka kufanya na nani sasa?
     
  20. The Quonquerer

    The Quonquerer JF-Expert Member

    #20
    Nov 5, 2009
    Joined: May 14, 2009
    Messages: 781
    Likes Received: 2
    Trophy Points: 0
    Unajua kila nchi ina historia yake. Tulikuwa kwenye "experiment" yetu ya State Owned Enterprises, it didn't work kama kwingine. Hivi hana mtu muda wa kujipanga na kufanya mambo yake, kuna tatizo gani hapo? Don't we have a right to do things at our own pace? Emergency za our northern neighbors ndiyo zitufanye kukimbia mchakamchaka? Kwa faida ya nani? Data zinaonyesha we import hardly 5% from them and source the rest from the rest of the world, can't that be overturned. Ugandans are getting 19.5% from them. Niliuliza, is that mighty industrial base they are bragging about helping them anyway, if so why that staggering 40% unemployment rate. What category of manufacturing do they do? Is it primary processing, intermidiate goods production or capital goods? Kwa maoni yangu, it is not only markets these guys are looking for, that isn't even a big issue. Hawa wanataka kuja kuishi huku, wahamie huku kijanja kusingizia kutafuta kazi na kupora ardhi, bora wawe transparent. Walishakamata mpaka huko Sumbawanga wakisubiri suala la ardhi kuwa litakuwa la EAC, wakaula wa chuya. Primary goods processing is a typical of developing/LDC industrial activity, had it been all levels of manufacturing they do, kwanza tungefaidika. Wangekuja wakatuajiri kwa mishahara midogo, kuliko ya kwao huko kwao, like USA is doing in Mexico. Lakini hii scenario haipo, zikiwa multinationals na transnational corporations zilkokuwa kwao kama Unilever, Barclays, etc, kwa vile sisi tulikuwa wajamaa, na wao wanakuja wengi kweli ili wapate vibarua humo humo, sasa faida za ku-open up na FDI kwa TZ ni nini? They are a bunch of survivors. I don't hate them for it is not even our cultrure but i want them to behave and be honest with themselves. Will add more!
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...