Tanzania ina watu milioni 43, Zanzibar hawazidi milioni 5 kwa nini tugawane kwa kulingana?

[Nonda]

Bora umpe mifano rahisi ataelewa, maana huyu nonda-mpemba anaejifanya mtanganyika huwa simuelewi ktk post zake, naona kama mpayukaji anayeongozwa na hisia akidhani hapa ni mzalendo.com-Jukwa la kashfa na matusi dhidi ya watanganyika.

Mipangomingi at Work!

Mkuu.
Unapokuwa umeishiwa na hoja si lazima uchangie mada.
Naona unataka kuni-brand mimi badala ya kujibu hoja au kutoa hoja.
Ni vyema uende kwenye bunge la Makinda, huko ndio wana style ya mipasho.

Pale ambapo hunielewi katika michango yangu ni vizuri ukanitaka nitoe maelezo au ufafanuzi. Si lazima kuwa tukubaliane katika yale tunayojadiliana. And it is nothing personal.

Mimi sio mtu wa zidumu fikra za mwenyekiti, si mwanachama wa chama cha siasa, wala sina sifa unazotaka kunipachika.
Ninachangia mawazo yangu vile ninaona mambo na uelewa wangu ni wa shule za kata. Kama huelewi ninachochangia basi mkuu, nichukulie tu. Watu tunatofautiana uelewa, ufahamu.

Ushauri kwako mkuu, acha ku-brand watu, shughulika na hoja zao.

Pale ninaposema uongo. Call me out!
Ninapokosea , nisahihishe, hakuna anaejua kila kitu…we learn along the way!

Ninapoleta hoja dhaifu, ipinge kwa hoja makini. Again, nothing personal!

Take it easy, Mipangomingi and lets engage in meaningful discussions and avoid taking things out of context but more important restrain from name calling, branding and rebranding!

Put a smile on your face….and my greetings to you.

Cheers!

 

[Msarendo]

ni Tanganyika na zanzibar.na sio tanzania na znzbar.

 

[Ngekewa]

Kwa mbali tunaweza kuulinganisha huu muungano wetu na ule wa Uingereza ambao jina kamili lingetakiwa liwe The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland lakini inafupishwa na kuwa United Kingdom (UK).

Northern Ireland ina semi-autonomy kama ilivyo Zanzibar na baraza lake la uwakilishi kwa mambo yao. Pia kama Zanzibar Northern Ireland haina Sovereignty na ina uwakilishi kwenye bunge la United Kingdom.

Kama Zanzibar, Northern Island ni sehemu ya kisiwa na ina watu karibu milioni moja na nusu ambao ni asilimia 2.5% ya wakazi wa UK. Lakini huo ndio mwisho wa similarities na Jamhuri Muungano wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar au Tanzania.

Tofauti na Zanzibar, Northern Ireland ina wawakilishi 16 tu kwenye bunge la Uingereza lenye wabunge zaidi ya 600. Hii ni sawa na asilimia 2.5% tu kulingana na idadi yao ya watu.

Zanzibar yenye watu chini ya milioni moja ina wabunge 75 katika wabunge 357 wa Muungano ! Hii ni sawa na asilimia 17.5% huku watu wake wakiwa asilimia 2.5% tu ya Watanzania !

Kwa idadi ya wabunge 357, Zanzaibar ilitakiwa iwakilishwe na wabunge chini ya 10 period. Lakini kama ni usawa wa nchi unaliliwa basi tungegawana nusu kwa nusu kila upande ukiwa na wabunge 178 na nusu !

Tukimaliza hapo tunatakiwa Mawaziri tugawane sawa, wakuu wa mikoa tugawane sawa, wakuu wa wilaya tugawane sawa n.k. Mbona hapo Wazanzibar kila moja atakuwa afisa kuanzia vichanga, vikongwe hadi vichaa !

Mfano mwingine ni Marekani ambao wana United States of Amerika (USA) na ingawa kila jimbo lina mtawala anayechaguliwa na bunge lake, kwenye utaifa uwakilishi hutegemea wingi wa watu.

California (wawakilishi 55) kamwe haiwezi kuwa sawa na Alaska (wawakilishi 3) ! Tanzania hakika tukitaka kuendelea kuna mambo lazima tuache kuyafumbia macho. Yawezekana kulikuwa na umuhimu kwa wakati huo 1964 lakini siyo sasa.

Ni katiba mpya tu itakayotukwamua na kutuweka huru,
Mungu ibariki Tanzania.
​

Unataka kunambia katika similarities hizo imo ya kuwa sehemu mbilim hizo zilikuwa Jamhuri na kuwa wanachama wa UN?

 

[GHIBUU]

ni Tanganyika na zanzibar.na sio tanzania na znzbar.

TANGANYIKA NDIO HII TANZANIA AMBAYO TANGANYIKA IMEVAA KOTI LA TANZANIA.

Nashangazwa sana kuona watu wanasema kuwa zanzibar ndio ilioimeza tanganyika kwa kuwa zanzibar bado ni nchi,sasa basi mi nawafahamisha hivi,baada tu ya muungano,nyerere kafanya fasta kuivunja tanganyika,na kuita tanzania,ukiangalia hata nembo ya tanganyika ndo ile ile ya muungano tunayotumia,sasa jiulize ni tanzania au tanganyika ?

Pia haijatosha hio,nyerere Katika sera ya ccm ameweka kuwa serikali mbili kuelekea moja,inamaana kwa kuimeza zanzibar na kuondoa hazi kama ni nchi,tulikuwa tunaitwa tanzania visiwani,hadi wakitoa matangazo ya utabiri wa hali ya hewa angalia,wanasema mkowa wa pwani,visiwani,hii yote ni kumeza zanzibar lakini kwa nguvu zetu tulijikaza wazanzbari hadi hii leo tumeleta mjadala wa katiba,

Watanganyika wengi wanavyofahamu kuwa mzozo wa katiba wameuleta chadema lakini sio kweli,mzozo tumeanza sie baada ya kuipengua zanzibar kuna kama ni nchi yenye mipaka yake,na kumpa rais nguvu kuigawa mikoa ya zanzibar bila ya rais wa muungano.

Tayari hapo tumeshaivuruga katiba ya muungano,sasa nawaambia watanganyika kama munataka tanganyika yenu mujikaze mupiganie kama sisi tunavyopigani,na sasa tunapigani kupata nchi yetu kuwa huru.

 

[Nguruvi3]

Kwa mbali tunaweza kuulinganisha huu muungano wetu na ule wa Uingereza ambao jina kamili lingetakiwa liwe The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland lakini inafupishwa na kuwa United Kingdom (UK).

Northern Ireland ina semi-autonomy kama ilivyo Zanzibar na baraza lake la uwakilishi kwa mambo yao. Pia kama Zanzibar Northern Ireland haina Sovereignty na ina uwakilishi kwenye bunge la United Kingdom.

Kama Zanzibar, Northern Island ni sehemu ya kisiwa na ina watu karibu milioni moja na nusu ambao ni asilimia 2.5% ya wakazi wa UK. Lakini huo ndio mwisho wa similarities na Jamhuri Muungano wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar au Tanzania.

Tofauti na Zanzibar, Northern Ireland ina wawakilishi 16 tu kwenye bunge la Uingereza lenye wabunge zaidi ya 600. Hii ni sawa na asilimia 2.5% tu kulingana na idadi yao ya watu.

Zanzibar yenye watu chini ya milioni moja ina wabunge 75 katika wabunge 357 wa Muungano ! Hii ni sawa na asilimia 17.5% huku watu wake wakiwa asilimia 2.5% tu ya Watanzania !

Kwa idadi ya wabunge 357, Zanzaibar ilitakiwa iwakilishwe na wabunge chini ya 10 period. Lakini kama ni usawa wa nchi unaliliwa basi tungegawana nusu kwa nusu kila upande ukiwa na wabunge 178 na nusu !

Tukimaliza hapo tunatakiwa Mawaziri tugawane sawa, wakuu wa mikoa tugawane sawa, wakuu wa wilaya tugawane sawa n.k. Mbona hapo Wazanzibar kila moja atakuwa afisa kuanzia vichanga, vikongwe hadi vichaa !

Mfano mwingine ni Marekani ambao wana United States of Amerika (USA) na ingawa kila jimbo lina mtawala anayechaguliwa na bunge lake, kwenye utaifa uwakilishi hutegemea wingi wa watu.

California (wawakilishi 55) kamwe haiwezi kuwa sawa na Alaska (wawakilishi 3) ! Tanzania hakika tukitaka kuendelea kuna mambo lazima tuache kuyafumbia macho. Yawezekana kulikuwa na umuhimu kwa wakati huo 1964 lakini siyo sasa.

Ni katiba mpya tu itakayotukwamua na kutuweka huru,
Mungu ibariki Tanzania.
​

Ahsante mkuu kwa maelezo yenye takwimu.
Tukiangalia hata hiyo 17.5% ya Wazanzibar walioko ndani ya bunge kuna mambo mengi ya kuhoji. Mbunge wa Zanzibar anawakilisha watu 10,000 au pungufu, sawa na mbunge wa Ilala anyewakilisha watu millioni 1.5. Hawa wote wana hadhi sawa ndani ya bunge na kura sawa kwa mambo ya kitaifa.
Gharama za hao 17.5% zinalipwa na JMT ambayo ni kodi za Watanganyika. Lakini pia hii 17.5% inayowakilisha 1 million ina ushawishi wa kura ndani ya bunge linalowakilisha watu 43 million hata kwa mambo yanayohusu Tanganyika peke yake.

Ikiwa tunataka usawa wa wawakilishi hata kwa kufumba macho, bado tuna maswali ya kujiuliza, ni nani atagharamia shughuli za bunge hilo. Gharama za bunge la JMT mwaka huu ni bilioni 92(Mh Pinda) bila mishahara na marupup rupu. Bajeti ya Zanzibar ni Bilioni 500. Kama watachangia nusu ni sawa na asilimia 5 ya bajeti yao. Fikiria.

Endapo kila kitu tutagawana sawa na si kwa uwiano, Wazanzibar wajiulize kwanza wanachangia kiasi gani katika JMT, tukifahamu kuwa bajeti yao ni bilioni 500 pungufu ya bajeti ya wizara ya elimu bara!
Juzi wamepitisha azimio la kuanzisha bodi ya mikopo ya elimu ya juu ambayo ni haki yao, lakini wanaomba pesa kutoka HESLB!

Ukiacha marekani alikotolea mfano Mag3, nchi kama India, Canada, Uingereza,uwakilishi unazingatia uwiano. Watakahoji ni kwa vipi nchi hizi tuzifananishe na ya kwetu, tafadhali fuatilia muundo wao wa serikali, utaona unatokana na muungano kama wetu kiasi kikubwa.


Ninafuatilia mijadala hasa ya wazanzibar, jambo ninaloliona ni kudai haki, kitu kizuri kabisa, lakini haki inawajibu pia. Huwezi kudai usawa wa kila kitu bila kujiuliza wewe unachangia nini na kwa kiasi gani.

 

[Eric Cartman]

Hizi ndio sababu waingereza sasa wamekuwa na special courses kwa watu wenye ndoto za kushika wadhifa wa juu kwenye serikali yao. Maana hapa sababu naona ni uwiano wa representative tu lakini no other social political angles.

Kwanza huwezi kuweka watu wanaozidiana idadi katika mjadala wenye masuala ya pande mbili wakati makubaliano yanayotoka hapo ni sheria kwa pande zote. Mjadala unaweza kukosa makubaliano, ikija suala la kuamua kwa wingi mwenye idadi kubwa anashinda. kwa maana hiyo hao jamaa wakiamua kuleta agenda za kujipendelea wengine wanakosa nguvu za kuzuia.

Nonesense aside ZNZ ina idadi ya watu millioni na nusu, je what economical potential is there considering its population and how it might benefit us. Nchi zote za UK zina own parliaments with little autonomy in their taxes but still receive substantial amount of cash from the central gov.

Do we know how much money goes into running the scottish and welsh assemblies yet they have a large representative group from those shores who still seat at West Minister as MPs, Cabinet Ministers, Hold senior position in the English bodies, even the last PM Gordon Brown was scottish.

What are the benefits of that union to England considering it has the bigger economy in comparison to all its other member states. Do we even know about the high unemployment rates in scotland and wales and all those people who rely on the central gov for handouts from westminister?

Despite all this yet the scottish want out of the union, if you dont know in the scottish assembly the majority are Scottish nationalist party (SNP) it demonstrates how much the nationalist movement is gaining that independence momentum. Well then Why do the English dont want to know?

Ndio maana sasa viongozi wao hawataki tena wawe ma lawyer or pure economist they want PPE graduates from oxford. That is those graduates with Philosophy, Politics and Economy degree as they happen to have a much wider perspective of things.

Eti 'uwiano' thats just a weak argument in the bigger picture.

 

[Nguruvi3]

Hizi ndio sababu waingereza sasa wamekuwa na special courses kwa watu wenye ndoto za kushika wadhifa wa juu kwenye serikali yao. Maana hapa sababu naona ni uwiano wa representative tu lakini no other social political angles.

Msingi mkubwa wa malalmiko ya Wazanzibar ni kudhulimiwa ingawa hayawekwi wazi ni kivipi. Social & political angles unazozisema hazijadiliwi na wazanzbar pengine kwasababu zinakidhi haja zao. Hoja ya uwiano inaletwa na wao na ndiyo maana inajadiliwa kwa 'data'. Si vibaya kama utatusaidia upande huo wa 'social and economic angles' inasaidiaje pande zote

Kwanza huwezi kuweka watu wanaozidiana idadi katika mjadala wenye masuala ya pande mbili wakati makubaliano yanayotoka hapo ni sheria kwa pande zote. Mjadala unaweza kukosa makubaliano, ikija suala la kuamua kwa wingi mwenye idadi kubwa anashinda. kwa maana hiyo hao jamaa wakiamua kuleta agenda za kujipendelea wengine wanakosa nguvu za kuzuia.

Ni kweli, na ndio maana Zanzibar uwakilishi wao umezingatia idadi na si 'population'. Sheria zinapowekwa zinazingatia yote haya, lakini pia sheria hizo zinatakiwa zizingatie uwiano. Sitaelewa kama bunge la JMT litakuwa na wabunge 320 kati yao 160 ni wazanzibar eti makubaliano ya sheria yanasema hivyo kuleta usawa. Hata huko Uingereza uwiano umezingatiwa sana.

Nonesense aside ZNZ ina idadi ya watu millioni na nusu, je what economical potential is there considering its population and how it might benefit us. Nchi zote za UK zina own parliaments with little autonomy in their taxes but still receive substantial amount of cash from the central gov.

Kwahiyo unakubali kuwa uchumi wa Zanzibar ni mdogo na hivyo inahitaji msaada kutoka central government.Malalmiko yao ya kunyonywa yanatoka wapi?

What are the benefits of that union to England considering it has the bigger economy in comparison to all its other member states. Do we even know about the high unemployment rates in scotland and wales and all those people who rely on the central gov for handouts from westminister?

Swali hili ni zuri sana kwa Wazanzibar, tufafanulie kwa mfano wa England.

Ndio maana sasa viongozi wao hawataki tena wawe ma lawyer or pure economist they want PPE graduates from oxford. That is those graduates with Philosophy, Politics and Economy degree as they happen to have a much wider perspective of things.

Juma, tuambie katika hali yetu wewe unashauri nini. Tunaweza kuwa na watu kutoka Oxford lakini tambua kuwa sisi na waingereza tupo katika tamaduni na viwango mbali mbali vya ufahamu kisiasa na kiuchumi. Unaweza kutupa 'position' yako nini kifanyike katika mazingira tuliyonayo wakati tukitafuta PPE wa oxford.

Eti 'uwiano' thats just a weak argument in the bigger picture.

Kama uwiano hauna mashiko, wewe unashauri formula gani itumike ili kuleta suluhisho, maana sentensi yako inaonyesha malalamiko bila ufumbuzi.

Kumbuka Calfornia yenye watu milioni 30 inawawakilishi wengi ndani ya congress na senate kuliko Montana state yenye watu milioni 1.3.

 

[Mipangomingi]

Mipangomingi at Work!

Mkuu.
Unapokuwa umeishiwa na hoja si lazima uchangie mada.
Naona unataka kuni-brand mimi badala ya kujibu hoja au kutoa hoja.
Ni vyema uende kwenye bunge la Makinda, huko ndio wana style ya mipasho.

Pale ambapo hunielewi katika michango yangu ni vizuri ukanitaka nitoe maelezo au ufafanuzi. Si lazima kuwa tukubaliane katika yale tunayojadiliana. And it is nothing personal.

Mimi sio mtu wa zidumu fikra za mwenyekiti, si mwanachama wa chama cha siasa, wala sina sifa unazotaka kunipachika.
Ninachangia mawazo yangu vile ninaona mambo na uelewa wangu ni wa shule za kata. Kama huelewi ninachochangia basi mkuu, nichukulie tu. Watu tunatofautiana uelewa, ufahamu.

Ushauri kwako mkuu, acha ku-brand watu, shughulika na hoja zao.

Pale ninaposema uongo. Call me out!
Ninapokosea , nisahihishe, hakuna anaejua kila kitu…we learn along the way!

Ninapoleta hoja dhaifu, ipinge kwa hoja makini. Again, nothing personal!

Take it easy, Mipangomingi and lets engage in meaningful discussions and avoid taking things out of context but more important restrain from name calling, branding and rebranding!

Put a smile on your face….and my greetings to you.

Cheers!

Discussion is an exchange of knowledge argument is the exchange of ignorance!

 

[Ntemi Kazwile]

Kwa mbali tunaweza kuulinganisha huu muungano wetu na ule wa Uingereza ambao jina kamili lingetakiwa liwe The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland lakini inafupishwa na kuwa United Kingdom (UK).

Northern Ireland ina semi-autonomy kama ilivyo Zanzibar na baraza lake la uwakilishi kwa mambo yao. Pia kama Zanzibar Northern Ireland haina Sovereignty na ina uwakilishi kwenye bunge la United Kingdom.

Kama Zanzibar, Northern Island ni sehemu ya kisiwa na ina watu karibu milioni moja na nusu ambao ni asilimia 2.5% ya wakazi wa UK. Lakini huo ndio mwisho wa similarities na Jamhuri Muungano wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar au Tanzania.

Tofauti na Zanzibar, Northern Ireland ina wawakilishi 16 tu kwenye bunge la Uingereza lenye wabunge zaidi ya 600. Hii ni sawa na asilimia 2.5% tu kulingana na idadi yao ya watu.

Zanzibar yenye watu chini ya milioni moja ina wabunge 75 katika wabunge 357 wa Muungano ! Hii ni sawa na asilimia 17.5% huku watu wake wakiwa asilimia 2.5% tu ya Watanzania !

Kwa idadi ya wabunge 357, Zanzaibar ilitakiwa iwakilishwe na wabunge chini ya 10 period. Lakini kama ni usawa wa nchi unaliliwa basi tungegawana nusu kwa nusu kila upande ukiwa na wabunge 178 na nusu !

Tukimaliza hapo tunatakiwa Mawaziri tugawane sawa, wakuu wa mikoa tugawane sawa, wakuu wa wilaya tugawane sawa n.k. Mbona hapo Wazanzibar kila moja atakuwa afisa kuanzia vichanga, vikongwe hadi vichaa !

Mfano mwingine ni Marekani ambao wana United States of Amerika (USA) na ingawa kila jimbo lina mtawala anayechaguliwa na bunge lake, kwenye utaifa uwakilishi hutegemea wingi wa watu.

California (wawakilishi 55) kamwe haiwezi kuwa sawa na Alaska (wawakilishi 3) ! Tanzania hakika tukitaka kuendelea kuna mambo lazima tuache kuyafumbia macho. Yawezekana kulikuwa na umuhimu kwa wakati huo 1964 lakini siyo sasa.

Ni katiba mpya tu itakayotukwamua na kutuweka huru,
Mungu ibariki Tanzania.
​

Mkuu ahsante sana kwa uchambuzi wako yakinifu.
Inabidi ifika mahala tuliite koreo koreo na jembe jembe, hatuwezi kuendelea wakati mambo yetu yanaamuliwa na wageni, kwangu mimi Wazanzibar ni wageni ambao tumewapa uraia lakini wao hawako tayari kutoa fadhila hiyo na baada ya kuwapa uraia sasa ndio tunataka watuamulie mambo yetu. Ukiangalia wabunge kwenye bunge la muungano utaona dhahiri kuwa Watanganyika tunawalipia na sidhani kuwa hii ina umuhimu wowote sasa hivi, ni bora kila nchi ikawa na uhuru wa kufanya mambo yao na kama kuna umuhimu wa ushirikiano tushirikiane kama tunavyoshirikiana na nchi nyingine kwenye ukanda wetu na siyo huku kubebana.

Natoa wito kwa wabunge wa bara waliongelee hili bila woga na kwa uaminifu kwani hatutaki unafiki wa kusema ukiongelea muungano utaonekana hupendi ushirikiano... sote tunataka ushirikiano lakini ushirikiano huo uwe wa haki na usawa siyo mmoja amunyonye mwingine

 

[MAJANI YA KUNDE]

Usiwe na wasi wasi mkuu, kwamba tumeshawachoka hilo ni dhahiri, sasa hivi ni wakati wa kuhamasishana ili wabara wafahamu kinaga ubaga jinsi tunavyochukuliwa kama mazezeta.
Muda ukifika mtu hafukuzwi , ataondoka mwenyewe kurudi kwao.

Mkuu na muda huo haupo mbali siku ikija ya wao kurudi kwao na sisi kurejea Tabora basi tutaona nani atafaidi.Lazima Tanganyika ipatikane sasa ili kuwa na uwiano kwanza mie Zanzibar shachoka sana .Siri ya muungano wanaijua Nyerere na Karume sisi tunatabika tu kuulinda nikikaa wakati furani najifananisha na Jinga lililopewa box lilishikilie likaambiwa lisiweke chini wala lisilitikise litalipuka wee basi jamaa jasho linamtoka kachoka kushika basi anaogopa kuliweka chini.

 

[Kifuna]

Zanzibar ina watu milioni moja na nusu sio milioni 5 acha uongo bwana mdogo unashusha uzito wa taarifa yako

Mimi sijui Zanzibar wako wangapi lakini nikimnukuu Rais Mstaafu Ben alisema wakazi wa Zanzibar wote hata waliko nje ya nchi ukiwakusanya na kuwarudisha Zanzibar wanafanana idadi yao na wakazi wa Wilaya ya Kinondoni. Sasa ukitaka kujua Zanzibar wako wangapi jua kwanza Kinondoni wako wangapi.

 

[Eric Cartman]

Nguvuri3

Let me start me by stating my ignorance on the nature of our union, that said i will avoid going into the specifics of their concerns regarding the union as their arguments are somewhat vague to my understanding mainly because I lack that information. Having said that i would represent my arguments based on commonsense of what I know so far and the curiosity of mine as well in relation to the argument at hand.

Foremost is the issue of autonomy how does ZNZ plays a part in dictating its fate on its economical development and growth. Such as having a stategy, autonomy to seek and lure investment as JK always does, formulating their own policies and being able to manipulate their own fiscal and monetary policies (as of currently the Tanzanian policies are not bussiness friendly) in terms of starting up for small businesses.

Zanzibar location has the potential to be the tourists haven with its past historical revelance and historical buildings enough to lure a variety of holiday maker. On its own stand tourism in Zanzibar has the capacity to generate a multi billion dollar industry benefitting the locals by creating jobs, entrepeneurs and bussiness opportunities. Yet they encounter bureaucracy from the central gov that limits thir potential with inadequate electricity supply, lack of funds to market the Islands and all the other concerns of mine which I had mentioned in paragraph two.

Then there is the issue of deciding for ZNZ a number of small isles which are part of her, are being sold or leased to foreign investments. Who is authorizing those transactions is it the SMZ or the central gov. Lets not fool ourselves Zanzibar has also not done much exploration within its borders to uncover its potential of natural resources it holds. Thus far we know of its oil potential who knows what else is available underground, not that they should rely on that luck as ZNZ has the possibility to punch above its weight just on good planning in their tourism industry.

Money earned could be redistributed into other sector to propel their economy growth and be able to control their own fate by investing in their education, farming (remember most of Pemba is rural and unhabitated). With the union and directives from the central government ZNZ looses groung for its own development and giving wealth to its modest population.

The issue of ratio is never going to be of equality as representions are based on already drawn up constituency and unfortunately some are large than others and some have more pulling powers than others. For instance no member of parliament in England, Wales or Scotland for the most part: will ever represent as many people as London based MPs and their constituency.

London being the central of the UK economy activities its bound to pull more people than other parts of the country that is unavoidable reality. That does not reduce 'David Cameron' into lesser significant MP because he happens to represent a rural constituency with a small count. That is the nature of constituency representation and a unitary constitution.

Therefore it is not right to compare Tanzanian representation to that of the USA. On that side of the world representation is based on their own drafted constitution which is based on the central government, whilst states also having their own local constitution. Alot of people seem to forget or rather confuse that the US states have their own economical policies, constitutions and even laws, except that the federal government set some form of federal rules that states have to adhered to. That is a whole different approach to a unitary constituency and constitution as over America size does matter.

Coming back to our own problems, personally i do not know how much people are tired of the union on the ground in Tanzania mainland only i know for certain Zanzibaris do not want it anymore if it were up to them. As they have demonstrated at the height of CUF political ambitions and they were ready for whatever, actually their whole political theme currently is based on the discussion of the union (that is the average Joe). All I know, for our part the momentum is much with CDM and JF members but nothing major in the ground has happened to suggest the people are tired of it too.

The right approach to this sensitive issue is through a referendum on both sides, both sides needs to disagree for the union to be abandoned. If one side disagree's and another agree's then the constitution has to be reviewed to reflect the needs of those who want out, but are tied in because of popular vote outcome.

But then these are discussions that require the outlook of the bigger picture such as the utilism of the union or the breaking of it and its effect into things such as the mutual economical benefits, security, social connection as the two societies have integrated (because even if you were to break the union some form of lax border control is needed to allow families to continue as normal, businesses and established traders should not be affected) etc etc.

 

[Nonda]

Discussion is an exchange of knowledge argument is the exchange of ignorance!

Sir, What do you normally do?
Do you discuss? Or do you urgue?

 

[Nonda]

Hapa Nonda umechemka, yaani tudumishe muungano tusioujua kisa mapezi ya wanasiasa?, kama wamaoana wao si wao. Hizi ndio faida wanazozidai za muungano?.

Muungano lazima uwe wa kimaslahi, sio maslahi ya wanasiasa.

Bangusilo,

Nina hakika umekurupuka katika kutoa mchango wako.
Wapi katika michango niliyotoa nimesema Tulinde Muungano kwa sababu ya mapenzi ya wanasiasa?
Tafadhali weka ushahidi huo kwanza.

Lakini nikusaidie hapa. Nililosema mimi ni kuwa umekuwepo uhusiano wa kindugu,kidamu baina ya Watu wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar kwa miaka mingi hata kabla ya Muungano...na hata Muungano ukivunjika basi tukio hili halitafuta uhusiano huo.
Pitia michango ya Saigon na michango yangu ambayo imejibu masuali aliyotoa Saigon.

Pia nimesema kuwa this union is a big mess!! We need to clean up this "Kero".

Hapa chini naweka exchange yangu na Saigon ili uopoe wapi nimesema "Zidumu fikra za Mwenyekiti"

Ningependekeza hapa tuachiwe Watanganyika tujadili mambo yetu, hatuwataki mamluki hapa, muungano gani huu wa kihuni eti mwezi wa ramadhani zanzibar hakuna sehemu za kula mchana wala usire hadharani, huu muungano uvunjwe haraka sana ili Zanzibar liwe Taifa la kiislamu na waongozwe kwa sharia. watu wanaotubaguwa sisi Watanganyika siwapendi hata kuwasikia.

Mkuu.
Tukivunja huu muungano, tutaungana na nchi gani? Kenya au Uganda?

mimi ningefurahi kuona tunarudisha ile Tanganyika ya zamani iliyo na Rwanda na Burundi ndani yake!
Ninaogopa kuungana na Kenya.

Jina je la nchi litakuwa lipi? na utaifa?

Mkuu..hivi Zanzibar wameshawahi kutumia sharia? naelewa kuwa ni muslim majority lakini sijawahi kusikia au kusoma sehemu kuwa walishapata kutumia islamic laws.

Soma post #58 halafu hii

Humu inawezekana kuna watu wanaandika comment zao wakiwa Bar, hivi wewe unafahamu maana ya ndugu wa damu? mke wako mwenyewe kama haujazaa nae hawezi kuwa ndugu wa damu, sasa undugu huo wa damu na hawa wapemba unatoka wapi? au wewe ni mwarabu wa ilala?

Mkuu.
Salmin Amour, alioa Mchaga wamezaa.....kuna Fatma said Ali ameolewa na mtanganyika mwenzetu...hao ni katika viongozi, pia kuna Zakia Megji......

Hafu kuna watu wengi tu wa makabila tofauti ya Tanganyika wameoa na kuolewa na Wazenj....mkuu kama huu uhusiano wewe huna haiwezi kuhalalisha kusema watu wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar hawana udugu wa damu,tena ulianza kwa miaka mingi, kabla ya Muungano.
kama una chuki binafsi nao ni kitu chengine. Chuki ni katika psychological disease! kapate tiba mkuu.

mimi si mwalabu wa ilala ni "mdanganyika" safi tu!

Nadhani wakati mwingine kusafiri nchi mbali mbali ni elimu tosha kabisa, kama kung'ang'ania muungano basi wangeanza wenzetu wa nchi hizi Botswana, Namibia, Swaziland, Lesotho, na South Africa. hawa ni jamii moja na makabira yao yapo kwenye hizo nchi zote, jambo hambalo huna uelewa nalo ni busara ukakaa kimya. Hatuhitaji muungano wa kisanii Period.

Wapi nimesema Muungano usivunjwe au udumu kwa sababu ya mapenzi ya wanasiasa, mkuu?
That is just a twist and spin on your part.

 

[HISIA KALI]

Suala la uwakilishi sawa katika tume nadhani ni kosa. Tanzania kama jamhuri ya muungano ni nchi moja. Tukileta mambo ya uwakikishi sawa tunaaribu maana ya nchi moja.

Ni ukweli kuwa wananchi wa bara ni wengi kuliko wale wa visiwani.

Sasa tunapokuwa na suala la uwakilishi sawa hasa kwenye mambo yanayotakiwa kupigiwa kura ni lazima tuongalie uwiano fulani la sivyo tutakuwa tunakosea. Kwa mfano ikifika wakati wa kupiga kura inawezekana kabisa watu wa bara wakapiga kura tofauti na wa visiwani. Sasa hapa itakuwaje? Kwa kuangalia wengi wa kura inamaana kuwa maamuzi ya watu wa bara ndiyo yatatekelezwa tu. Mfano hai ni rais Kikwete hakuongoza kwenye kura ya urais kule visiwani katika uchaguzi mkuu wa mwaka jana. Mtu aliyeongoza kura ya urais wa muungano visiwani ni Lipumba wa CUF.


Hata kwenye bunge la muungano wabunge wa visiwani ni wachache vile vile.

Hii inaonyesha kuwa haya mambo ya uwakilishi ni tatizo linalotakiwa kuangaliwa kwa kina kama yatatumika kwenye huo mswaada.

 

[Calipso]

kwani tatizo kubwa.. kama kuna upendeleo hebu tupeni nchi yetu,mbona munatung'ang'ania.. ukija uchaguzi tu munaleta mijeshi kibao,munaona kama tutataka nchi yetu na kujitenga, yaani upendeleo wa kutupiga mabomu hamuuangalii,lkn mengine haraka haraka... acheni zenu tumechoka kung'ang'aniwa na nyinyi...

 

[Nonda]

Mkuu.
kwa jinsi muungano unavyoendeshwa uko sahihi katika hoja yako.

Lakini pia si kweli kuwa Tanganyika ilitoa mamlaka yake yote muungano ulipoanzishwa, Zanzibar pia haikutoa mamlaka yake yote kwa mamlaka mpya(Muungano au serikali ya Muungano)..pia mamlaka mpya haiwezi kujikwapulia madaraka ambayo haikupewa na Tanganyika na Zanzibar kama waanzilishi wa Muungano.

Au mkuu unabisha kuwa inatakiwa iwepo mamlaka ya Tanganyika, mamlaka ya zanzibar na mamlaka ya muungano?
kama umenisoma hapo juu kuna sehemu nimesema Mwalimu kwa "utaalamu" wake alichanganya mamlaka ya Tanganyika na mamlaka ya Muungano pamoja. hali hii ndi iliyozaa, inayozaa hitimisho kuwa Tanganyika haipo au Zanzibar haina soverignty status.

mkuu kama mtu mwenye akili timamu niambie kuna nchi inayosalimisha mamlaka yake yote kwa nchi nyengine?

mkuu. tunawalaumu wazanzibari kwa makosa ya "viongozi" wetu wa Tanganyika.
Wapi umepata kusikia au kuona duniani jina la nchi huru linapotea katika ramani ya dunia au hata katika akili za watu?
Tanzania si nchi moja..Tanzania ni nchi mbili. Tanganyika na Zanzibar.


Tatizo sisi wachangiaji hapa tunachangia mada kama hizi kinafiki na kiushabiki.

Kwanza kabisa ni kwamba nina akili timamu. Na kwa akili zangu timamu nimeona kuwa Tanganyika haipo ila Zanzibar ipo ndio maana hakuna Mtanganyika anayeweza kupata ubunge/uwaziri Zanzibar ila kwa Tanzania Wizara za Ulinzi na Mambo ya Ndani ziko mikononi mwa Wazanzibar!! Soma Katiba hakuna kitu kinaitwa Tanganyika, ilijifia mwaka 1964 tukawa na Tanzania mara iitwe Tanzania Bara hata sielewi ni nini hiki. Nami siwalaumu Wazanzibar hata kidogo nalaumu mfumo tu wa Muungano. Nadhani tukipata sheria nzuri ya kuchakata katiba tutaweza kuuona Muungano huu kwa macho mawili na katiba itakayokuja natamani ishughulikie muundo wa Muungano. Nimefarijika kidogo kuona kwamba Tume ya Katiba itapitia pia Articles of Union miongoni mwa nyaraka itazopitia.

Mkuu.
For ref. soma post #31
Hapo ulipo-highlight red pana suali mbele yake....umelikwepa.
No offence intended...simply I wa appealing to your honesty and sincerity when answering the question..Kuna nchi huru duniani inayosalimisha mamlka yake yote kwa nchi nyengine?

La msingi nionavyo mimi ni kuwa waliounda Muungano na kufahamu walitaka nini walipoungana wote wameshaondoka, sisi tuliopo baada ya kubaini madudu, kero au mfumo mbovu wa muungano tunachukua hatua gani?
Mimi ushauri wangu ni kuwa pande mbili zikae kama nchi mbili tofauti, Tanganyika au wawakilishi wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar au wawakilishi wa Zanzibar na wajadiliane upya kuhusu Muungano na muundo wake.

Au iitishwe kura ya Maoni waulizwe wananchi as seperate parts juu ya Muungano kuwa uwepo au uvunjwe . Kama uwepo, uwe na Muundo upi?.

Tunafanya kosa kubwa kutaka kuandika katiba mpya kabla ya kuujadili Muungano kwanza na Muundo wake. Tunazidi kulikoroga.
Na athari zake zitakuwa kubwa.

Kama hatua zilivyoanza mwanzoni..kulikuwa na majadiliano ya muungano kama yalikuwepo, ukaja mkataba wa muungano na halafu ikaandikwa Katiba ya Muda ya Muungano.
Hatua hizi ndio zingefatwa tena and not vice versa.

 

[Jile79]

Sijui tutabebana mpaka lini bila kuzingatia ukweli halisi na maslahi ya taifa...............siku hizi zanzibar ni nchi i9nayojitegemea japo bara wanabembeleza hata rais tuliyenaye sio wa muungano kwani hana tenda mguvu za kisheria baada ya zenji kuwa na katibas yao..................bara tunachekesha tu dunia basi

 

[Ntemi Kazwile]

Sijui tutabebana mpaka lini bila kuzingatia ukweli halisi na maslahi ya taifa...............siku hizi zanzibar ni nchi i9nayojitegemea japo bara wanabembeleza hata rais tuliyenaye sio wa muungano kwani hana tenda mguvu za kisheria baada ya zenji kuwa na katibas yao..................bara tunachekesha tu dunia basi

Inabidi Zanzibar iwe nchi huru na waamue mambo yao wenyewe, kama wakipenda tunaweza kuwa na ushirikiano nao kutokana na historia lakini huku kubebana huku kunatuumiza wapiga kura wa Bara

 

[Nonda]

Inabidi Zanzibar iwe nchi huru na waamue mambo yao wenyewe, kama wakipenda tunaweza kuwa na ushirikiano nao kutokana na historia lakini huku kubebana huku kunatuumiza wapiga kura wa Bara

These links can be of interest to you.

https://www.jamiiforums.com/jamii-intelligence/123958-malkia-anamiliki-eneo-ndani-ya-nchi-yetu.html

https://www.jamiiforums.com/habari-...r-searches-for-alternative-power-sources.html