System (chuo) ya Sheng

MK254 Yeah Kenya's strength is due to its diversity unlike TZ's which is its nationalism, that is my identity, I celebrate it, I don't deny it, but I also think that we can do better. On more impacting and important issues that pertain to development, using Swahili more will definitely change things for the better. One of Africa's problem is mediocrity, we know we can do better but we wait for problems to plan. If we can do this successfully, we'll be more nationalized, informed, educated, etc. Iconoclastes of course they have that attitude because of lack of information, I don't think there's any other other indigenous African language that's as developed as Swahili, maybe Arabic, yes Arabic is an indigenous African language first spoken by black Arabs who were initially cushites and looked like Somalis/Ethiopians.

Yeah only Arabic is more advanced, now we need to develop the technical vocabulary which is something that can be done quickly if government spent more on this and pass it on to teaching in primary/secondary. This can only be done if we have a few majority mps and a willing education CS. And I repeat, this will not diminish our fluency in the queen's language, not by one bit, in addition this will also create more economic opportunities, such as book writing, university teaching, entertainment. And when other east/central African countries see the success, they'll follow suit, and the market will be more open, that's the power of language my friends, lakini tukijifunika na hii English, things will remain the same and we'll be forever at the mercy of western exploitation.
 
Really? How does speaking in English place us at risk of 'western exploitation' pkjag?

English is the global language of commerce and politics.
I see nothing wrong with us having english as our key language really. My opinion is we shouldnt let kiswahili disappear into oblivion. Let us treat it with the same importance as english by speaking it well, not polluting it too much.

It is not a slavery of mind us Kenyans speaking in english. This is where I strongly differ with the Africanist such as Ngungi wa Thiongo.
 
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Iconoclastes said:
Really? How does speaking in English place us at risk of 'western exploitation' pkjag?

English is the global language of commerce and politics.
I see nothing wrong with us having english as our key language really. My opinion is we shouldnt let kiswahili disappear into oblivion. Let us treat it with the same importance as english by speaking it well, not polluting it too much.

It is not a slavery of mind us Kenyans speaking in english. This is where I strongly differ with the Africanist such as Ngungi wa Thiongo.
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Oh yes speaking English in place of our own language is exploitation, it is contributing to the vast English empire, we buy their products, we contribute to their research, we provide a market for their economy all at the expense of our own economies. You may call that capitalism, but capitalism employs these exploitative measures, why can't we do the same to benefit us? That is essentially economic exploitation which opens another avenue to political exploitation, any political scientist can confirm these arguments.

I don't mean that English is unimportant and that we shouldn't use it, but we should give Swahili more priority, because too much usage of English will erode our culture. Look at the African Americans in South/North America, they have forgotten a large part of their culture because they have forgotten their own languages, now contrast that to other communities, such as the Chinese, the Indians, the Mexicans. A culture which forgets its own language/culture is doomed to the same fate that the African Americans face, that is the essence of exploitation that was used with great effect during colonialism, when western religions/values were imposed into us.
 
Iconoclastes It isn't slavery of the mind to speak in English, rather, it is slavery of the mind to prefer to speak in English rather than your own language when need arises. That's what I meant. You become essentially tethered to a state of mind that benefits somebody else's interests at the expense of your own and you become blind to the effects, when things get worse you start blaming everybody, that is the state that we Africans have become all too familiar with.
 
Both your arguments are absurd pkjag.
The African countries didnt opt to retain the usage of their former colonial masters languages in order to allow themselves to be exploited even after the colonialists exit, but those languages were intended to be the tools of correspondence with the outside world and the means to acquire the ideas and technologies which would be crucial for the progress of these young states.
Exploitation of a country by the other countries is all owing to the weak governance structures and the economic policies of the given country, it has nothing to do with its official language.

The Americans and the British exploited Zaire's despite the country not speaking in English, the former USSR formed a strong bond with a number of countries in Africa, yet none spoke russian. And which African country speaks chinese really?
Does Britain exploits the US or Portugal Brazil?
And how many African countries are being milked by Saudi Arabia,given that Arabic is the most spoken language in Africa?
 
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Iconoclastes
You are taking the word exploitation too literally here, it doesn't necessarily mean something bad, it may mean lost opportunity to develop but not always something bad. For example, in Kenya virtually all the university books used to teach are foreign, that's economic and academic exploitation because it's opportunity lost, but its also good because we learn something new. Here interpreting this opportunity lost into political/economic value is up to policy makers in government not up to this discussion, I'm just highlighting some observation i made.

If we developed our own language say like Japan did after the world war, we would be able to publish local content. The Japs are pioneers in Electronics and Industrial Manufacturing, America and other European countries go there translate those publications into their own languages and transfer that knowledge back home. See that's value creation, also many more Japanese people spend more money in their own country going to their own universities, so they don't have problems such as brain drain that are rampant in Africa and many more benefits.

Also, you give disconnected examples, because you fail to understand my point. Zaire was exploited because it's mineral rich, and because it was during colonialism when all other African countries were in a similar state. I'm talking about now and the future, you are still talking about the past??? Actually Belgium and France facilitated that exploitation, Britain happened to be a world power then, so they could do it since they needed more resources, they did not govern Zaire.

The USSR's interests were to spread communism, what has speaking Russian got to do with that, Russia was not among the colonizers of Africa. China came later and they are borrowing a leaf from the other European countries albeit in a more intelligent manner, and yes they are exploiting us proper, we are just too blind to see. We don't have to speak Chinese to be exploited because they already found us in a position ripe for exploitation.

And yes Britain did exploit Brazil in the 17th century, remember slave trade? Britain essentially controlled the slave trade, America's and Brazil's work horse, so when it ended it, the economies of these countries were at the mercy of Britain for quite some time, that's exploitation. Portugal was one of the colonizing countries so I don't understand its inclusion. Saudi Arabia did not colonize any African country and it's not in a position of power like the other European colonizers, so its inclusion does not further your point in any way.

You make the wrong assumption by thinking that only speaking a foreign language makes you prone to exploitation, so your rebuttal isn't really conclusive. First understand exploitation in the context of the topic at hand then make a better rebuttal
 
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Also they did choose to retain the languages, whether it was to be exploited or not is not the point. I can give you a multitude of languages that were less developed or at par with Swahili back then during colonialism and now they are doing better, why? because the regimes chose to develop them for the benefit of their countries. Afrikaans, Japanese, Hindu, Persian, Korean, etc
 
Duh! I will come back here, been very busy, it's a very healthy and educative debate. So many people are reading silently.
 
Sheng is a very powerful tool in urban kenya. Some people know its power and use it for good. e.g MYSA as policy use it as a working language. Someone pointed out Ghetto radio. It has a large following and i tell you serious companies use sheng adverts there esp the Telcos. It has its uses.

Iconoclastes i believe language is part of humanity's intangible heritage. Language is not merely culture,its identity. Everything. I have a friend from SA who is a isiXhosa speaker and he once told me that in SA there are govt funded bodies that develop each of the 11 official languages. None should be diminished as this was a key plank of apartheid i.e. the bantunisation and the resultant bantustans,remember?

Back to sheng.It is to my mind more of a class identifier than an actual language. Notice its ever changing vocabulary.I get chills when i hear my 7yr old daughter speaking sheng esp when i compare it to the one of my youth. I dont get a thing she says. Someone once said to me when economic democracy gets to kenya someday,sheng will die as the conditions that led to its growth viz.socio economic differences will disappear.

We should understand that we live in another cultures phone(anglophone) and not ours. We therefore imbibe their values consciously or not. Not smart. And i prefer smart---phones!

Iconoclastes the average educated youth in Abidjan/Dakar/Tananarive speaks french. Colonial legacy. As we do english. We should then ask ourselves why does the average educated white SA youth have his architecture degree in Afrikaans?indigenous african language developed for all purposes.hmmm?

I look forward to the day we can have full degree awarding institutions teaching in..wait for it...kiNyakyusa. ha!!
 
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Quickly said:
Sheng is a very powerful tool in urban kenya. Some people know its power and use it for good. e.g MYSA as policy use it as a working language. Someone pointed out Ghetto radio. It has a large following and i tell you serious companies use sheng adverts there esp the Telcos. It has its uses.

Iconoclastes i believe language is part of humanity's intangible heritage. Language is not merely culture,its identity. Everything. I have a friend from SA who is a isiXhosa speaker and he once told me that in SA there are govt funded bodies that develop each of the 11 official languages. None should be diminished as this was a key plank of apartheid i.e. the bantunisation and the resultant bantustans,remember?

Back to sheng.It is to my mind more of a class identifier than an actual language. Notice its ever changing vocabulary.I get chills when i hear my 7yr old daughter speaking sheng esp when i compare it to the one of my youth. I dont get a thing she says. Someone once said to me when economic democracy gets to kenya someday,sheng will die as the conditions that led to its growth viz.socio economic differences will disappear.

We should understand that we live in another cultures phone(anglophone) and not ours. We therefore imbibe their values consciously or not. Not smart. And i prefer smart---phones!

Iconoclastes the average educated youth in Abidjan/Dakar/Tananarive speaks french. Colonial legacy. As we do english. We should then ask ourselves why does the average educated white SA youth have his architecture degree in Afrikaans?indigenous african language developed for all purposes.hmmm?

I look forward to the day we can have full degree awarding institutions teaching in..wait for it...kiNyakyusa. ha!!
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kiNYakyusa, I don't see that coming, Swahili trumps any other african language in terms of vocabulary of expression, so policy makers would obviously prefer it over other african languages.
 
Iconoclastes said:
Budda boss, vipi unajibongesha humu?
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Sema kurausha thread ya mine chini ya waba!Budaboss si kufyatu ni usniper jo!Makmende001 mwenyewe,haha!Mzeiya acha nijisunde kimoderator nichapiane na huyu brathe anaitwa seanherms inakaa amenoki sheng kuruka!Alikwom chuo May19 na hajacheki mode hadi now.Nani kama sisi,sisi hapan tambua Matiang'i!
 
seanherms said:
Aisee..nimependa mada yenu.Endeleeni na sheng nijifunze:)
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Wazi jo buda(asante mkuu).Kaa umedai(kama umetaka) kung'am(kujua) sheng,jiseti kiusystem kaa stude(keti kama mwanafunzi shuleni),sidai umauru(sitaki utukutu)!Word of the day-(Sheng-Kiswa)-Kusing'aing'a,maana yake ni;ku'stagger',baada ya kunywa pombe.Kwa mfano,Morio wa mine(rafiki yangu) jana alising'aing'a mbaya na alikuwa amechapa(amebugia) konyagi jamo(moja) tu!.
 
MODERATORS,fanyeni haki wakuu hamisheni hii thread kwenye jukwaa la Kenya Forums.Tafadhali.Lengo la mada hii ni kuwe na ufahamu ya kuwa Sheng ni lugha kivyake,tofauti na kiswahili sanifu.Nataka kusikia maoni ya wanadau na jukwaa hili aisee,linaleta huzuni nyingi,bure tu!
 
pingli-nywee said:
Vipi mraaya na mayout wa JF,kaa umekufia lugha hii yetu ya mtaa itabidi tuchapiane viserious juu yake.Mamwere wanengi wanabring pang'ang'a kuruka wakidai eti lingo ya sheng inafaa chochoro tu,eti ishaa beat!Wanengi wanadai iko down eti!Proof iko kuwa sheng haina limitations na inago places na pia ni identity ya wasee kibao Kenya na sanasana Nairobe.Mnadai jeiya mabudaboss?Temeni jo,bila mezesha any mamorio!
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mim nimraiya wa Tz nalove sana hii but apo sija kuelewa vienye umebonga embu nifundishe mazee
 
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