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Swala la kujiunga na OIC Hawajalipatia Ufumbuzi?

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Kichuguu, Jun 18, 2010.

  1. Kichuguu

    Kichuguu Platinum Member

    #1
    Jun 18, 2010
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    ZANZIBAR should join the Organization of Islamic Conference (OIC) else the union government should compensate for what the isles is losing for not joining it.

    Debating the Chief Minister's budget estimates, some representatives noted that it was high time the government made a decision.


    "We are tired of words, we need action. Over 15 years since the union government promised to join the OIC, nothing has happened. Zanzibar government must stand firm," Hamad Masoud Hamad (CUF- Ole) said.


    He said there were no sound reasons for barring Zanzibar or Tanzania from joining the OIC, basically for economic interests, rather than religious.


    "Mozambique and Uganda joined the OIC and are benefiting. Why is the union government hesitant?" he quizzed.


    Mr Ramadhani Nyonje Pandu (CCM- Muyuni) demanded an explanation from the Chief Minister as to when oil and natural gas would be deleted from the list of union matters.


    "We do not need any further negotiations since President Jakaya Kikwete directed respective authorities to resolve the matter.


    You (Chief Minister) have written to the Prime Minister, and President Kikwete has no problem with Zanzibar's demands for oil and natural gas. There are delaying tactics going on in the mainland," he added.


    Meanwhile, Mr Ali Haji Ali (CCM- Mkwajuni) has demanded that the Zanzibar President be reinstated as the Union Vice-President to strengthen the union.


    "It is high time Zanzibar president became a permanent vice-president of the union, there is nothing wrong with it."


    Zanzibar president was the union vice- president from when Tanganyika merged with Zanzibar in 1964. However, when the multi-party democracy was re-introduced, the system was constitutionally abolished.


    The representative also was of the opinion that time had come for dual citizenship, increased democracy and boosting economy through contribution from the Diaspora.

    Hivi faida za kujiunga na OIC ni zipi? I mean, Zanzibar ikijiunga na OIC itapata faida ya Shilingi ngapi, na ni hasara ya shilingi ngapi itakayodaiwa na Zanzibar kama fidia kwa kutokuwa au kuzuiwa kuwa mwanachama wa IOC?

     
  2. Buchanan

    Buchanan JF Diamond Member

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    Hao Waarabu kama wana nia njema na nchi fulani wawape misaada bila kuwalazimisha kujiunga nao! Wanataka tukijiunga tusaidiane kueneza UISLAMU kiaina! Membe aliziita fedha za Waarabu kuwa ni "fedha za shetani," kwa hiyo hatuzitaki, wakae nazo! Jina lenyewe ni Organization of "ISLAMIC" Conference. Katiba yao inasema kwa sehemu kama ifuatavyo:

    In the name of Allah, the most Compassionate, the most Merciful
    We the Member States of the Organisation of the Islamic
    Conference, determined:​
    1.....to be guided by the noble Islamic values of unity and fraternity, and affirming
    the essentiality of promoting and consolidating the unity and solidarity among
    the Member States in securing their common interests at the international
    arena;
    2....to preserve and promote the lofty Islamic values of peace, compassion,
    tolerance, equality, justice and human dignit
    y;
    3...to endeavour to work for revitalizing Islam's pioneering role in the world
    while ensuring sustainable development, progress and prosperity for the
    peoples of Member State
    s;
    4...to enhance and strengthen the bond of unity and solidarity among the Muslim
    peoples and Member States
    ;
    5...to foster noble Islamic values concerning moderation, tolerance, respect for
    diversity, preservation of Islamic symbols and common heritage and to defend
    the universality of Islamic religion
    ;
    6...to advance the acquisition and popularization of knowledge in consonance
    with the lofty ideals of Islam to achieve intellectual excellence
    ;
    7...to support the struggle of the Palestinian people, who are presently under
    foreign occupation, and to empower them to attain their inalienable rights,
    including the right to self-determination, and to establish their sovereign state
    with Al-Quds Al-Sharif as its capital
    , while safeguarding its historic and
    Islamic character, and the holy places therein;
    8...To disseminate, promote and preserve the Islamic teachings and values based
    on moderation an
    d tolerance, promote Islamic culture and safeguard Islamic
    heritage
    ; etc.

    Hapa hakuna cha misaada wala nini, ni kutusilimisha KIAINA kwa jina la misaada!
     
  3. takashi

    takashi JF-Expert Member

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    wanzanzibari ni waislamu na wana haki ya kuungana na waislamu wenzao... nyinyi si munapata ile misaada kutoka rome?
     
  4. MrFroasty

    MrFroasty JF-Expert Member

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    Watanganyika hamujalazimishwa kama nanyi mujiunge na OIC, ni Zanzibar ndio waliotaka kujiunga.Sasa sijuwi ni kijicho au tuseme nini.

    Nyinyi kama munaona ni mashetani, haina taabu twacheni sie tujiunge na mashetani wenzetu...its as simple as that!
     
  5. K

    Kamundu JF-Expert Member

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    Hakuna cha ufumbuzi kwani swala ni wajiunge au wasijiunge? na jibu limeshatoka wasijiunge sasa ufumbuzi wa nini!!!. Tusijaribu kuweka swala rahisi kama hili gumu kwani jibu limeshatoka. Zanzibar wajitaidi kusomesha watoto badala ya kufikiria ndoto ambazo hazitatokea.
     
  6. M

    Mkandara Verified User

    #6
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    Kichuguu, Mkuu wangu wewe umeoa mkeo kaalikwa Kitchen party unapinga hadi mwaliko ukuhusu na wewe... kaazi kweli kweli...

    Na labda nikuulize wewe, imekuwaje sisi Tanzani ni member wa Commission on the Status of Women (CSW) hali nchi yetu ni ya wanawake na wanaume! jamani tuyazungumze haya hadi lini mpate kuelewa. Mmefungua Benki za Kikristu hakuna Muislaam aliyelalamika hata kama benki hizo zitahudumia wakristu peke yake.

    Serikali yetu ina mkataba na Vatican toka tupate Uhuru hakuna Muislaam aliyesema uvunjwe..Mnanunua maeneo mengi tu ya watu binafsi kwa ajili ya makanisa na waislaam hawapigi kelele. As a fact shamaba letu kule Bubange, Ukerewe limechukuliwa na kujengwa kanisa pasipo idhini wala kuwauzia na leo hii sina uwezo wa kuwaondoa - Kesi ina miaka 10, shughuli zao zinaendelea kama kawaida.
    Lakini litokee jambo lolote linalohusu Waislaam, basi imekuwa shida kubwa sana kwenu kuelewa...

    Hivi kweli tutaweza kusimama mstari pamoja kupigania haki za msingi toka chama CCM au ndio haiwezekani kabisa.. Na hakika kutokana na imani kama hizi, mimi nafikiri bora Zanzibar wajintenge na kuwa huru watajua la kufanya wakibakia wao wenyewe..Na hakika kitakacho fuata ni ni Bara....
    Mnawasha cheche za moto ambazo sidhani kama ukisha waka mtaweza kuuzima..
     
  7. MrFroasty

    MrFroasty JF-Expert Member

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    Hilo suala la OIC, Mafuta na hadi muungano wenyewe una mwisho...time will tell.You better get used to the fact that no man has ever fought for freedom and they never get it.

    Kinachonishangaza Tanganyika imepigania uhuru wa nchi nyingi barani Afrika, na mwisho wake sasa kuona ijaribu yeneywe kuwa mkoloni.

    Anyways, I will leave this here now...and join my fellow Zanzibaris in their struggle....
     
  8. bona

    bona JF-Expert Member

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    dawa ya mwisho na hawa wazanzibar ni kuwarudishia ki nchi chao, hatuwaitaji kwa lolote then tuone nani wata suffer na uvivu wao wa kutaka wafanyiwe kazi wao wale tu! kama muungano karume ndio alikuaj kumpigia nyerere waungane ili kina kassim hanga na abudlhaman babu na wakomunist wengine wasimtoe madarakani leo wanaleta nyodo tuwaache tu wakaangane wenyewe! ni virus hawa jamaa kwenye system! shule hawataki, kazi hawataki wanataka wote nchi nzima wakalete makorokoro uko uarabuni waje wauze! sijui waliona wapi nchi ya wachuuzi iakendelea! fanyeni kazi na msome pumbaf!
     
  9. M

    Mdondoaji JF-Expert Member

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    Kaka tumia hekima na akili kuandika kitu na sio jazba na stereotype statements zisizokuwa na mpango unazozitoa humu jamvini. In short toa pumba zako humu jamvini. Nani alikuambia wazanzibar wavivu? Nani aliyekuambia wazanzibari hawajasoma??? Professa Haroub Othman ni nani?, Dk Shein ni nani?, Dr Gharib ni nani?, Professa Aboud ni nani? Dr Suleiman Mohamed na wengineo wengi acha unazi wako wa dharau dhidi ya wazanzibar mzee utachekwa na jumuiya.

    Kuiacha zanzibar ijitenge itakapobidi itaachiwa tu kwani tangia hapo faida za muungano hazionekani dhahiri kwa wazanzibar zaidi ya ukoloni mamboleo tu. Lakini tujiulize na sie hakuna cha hasara tutakachokipata Bara kutokana na zanzibar wakijitenga??? Jiulize katika matajiri 10 Tanzania Wazanzibari wangapi? Tujiulize mfano zanzibari wakipata mafuta na washajitenga na sie nani atakayelia ukichukulia rasilimali ya mafuta wataalamu wanasema miaka 50 ijayo itaisha itakuwaje? Nadhani ndugu yangu umechemka sana .

    Na mada ni kwamba zanzibar mpaka leo hawajajiunga na OIC kwanini kwani wao si watanzania na hawana haki hiyo??? Kama hamtaki walipeni faida basi kwani kila kitu kina opportunity cost yake.
     
  10. MKUNGA

    MKUNGA JF-Expert Member

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  11. MrFroasty

    MrFroasty JF-Expert Member

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    Ukiona mtu anasema Karume ndio alitaka muungano na Nyerere, basi hio ni dalili moja ya kuwa hajasoma yeye na ujinga umemganda.

    Soma makala za J.Mihangwa huyo mwenzenu ni mwandishi pekee ninaemuona si mbinafsi anafanya utafiti wa kutosha na kuandika inavyostahili.Fuatilia makala zake za muungano, utapata kujua kama ni Karume au Nyerere ndie alietaka muungano.

    Nadhani ukitaka mtazamo wangu ni kuwa Nyerere alikuwa kibaraka wa wamagharibi alitumwa kuzima mapinduzi na akashindwa kukataa na hatimae akaona awabamize waislamu wa Zanzibar...

    Lakini hio ni nje ya maada...maada itarudi pale pale ni kwa hoja gani Zanzibar isijiunge na OIC ikiwa Uganda/Kenya zimejiunga?

    Whatever the case may be....time is up kwa upuuzi huu wa muungano, na kama muna ndoto za kuelekea serekali moja na nchi moja...Keep dreaming, as a Zanzibaris I wont let that happen unless you kill me first ...but not when I am alive!
     
  12. Jimmy K.

    Jimmy K. Member

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    Suala la OIC subirini hadi mwisho wa miaka ya 2015 hapo nina hakika litajirudia. Kwa sasa liko likizo ya lazima maana bado twahitaji ushindi wa kishindo. Historia itaandika.
     
  13. Nemesis

    Nemesis JF-Expert Member

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    inapofikia suala hili kunawatu huwa wanachanganyikiwa. Kwa kujibu swali lako; bado halijapata ufumbuzi kama unavyojua Serikali ya Kikwete siyo Serikali yenye kufanya maamuzi. Hata huu wakati anodai ni wa kasi zaidi, ari zaidi na moyo zaidi hautakuwa na maamuzi yeyote muhimu.
     
  14. Buchanan

    Buchanan JF Diamond Member

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    Naona mnadivert mjadala bila sababu yoyote wakuu! Suala wazi hapa ni kwamba hatutaki kuuziwa mbuzi kwenye gunia kwa kisingizio cha misaada! Hao Waarabu watutajie nchi zilizofanikiwa kukua kiuchumi kwa kutegemea misaada! Wachukue mifano michache tu ya Uganda na Msumbiji! Zaidi ya hayo Katiba ya OIC inasema lengo la OIC ni kuuendeleza UISLAMU-sio habari ya misaada hapa! Waislamu msitufanye wajinga, mkiona OIC tamu hamieni Saud Arabia, Iraq, Syria au hata Somalia, tuachieni amani jamani!
     
  15. K

    Kilian Senior Member

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    OIC ni organization ya kidini kabisa. Tanzania siyo nchi ya kiislam, (not an Islamic state), mnatualzimisha kujiunga na jumuiya inayosema wazi kwamba lengo lake ni kueneza uislam, then baada ya hapo mtaanza kudai nchi iongozwe kwa sharia. We are not fools.
     
  16. stringerbell

    stringerbell Member

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    wewe buchanan naona bado una yale mawazo ya babaako dikteka nyerere .hata ikiwa OIC wanataka kueneza uislam but you have a choice hulazimishwi ,huu mwaka wa wangapi kenya na uganda wapo OIC na majority ya watu wa nchi hizo ni wakiristo je umewahi kusikia kwamba wanalazimishwa kujiunga na dini?mimi ni muislam lakini hapa kwangu almost everyday hawa jamaa wa yehova witness wanakuja kugonga mlango kutangaza dini yao mimi sina chuki nao because I have made my choices already about religion .they offer me a magazine and i listen to them .no pain no harm.
    mimi nahisi wewe uko insecure na una muelekeo wa vikira mbovu za kisocialist bado nyerere is inside your head.
    let the zanzibaris join the OIC thats their decision.mr buchanan if you are gay you always gonna be no body gonna change you to be staright.
     
  17. K

    Kishazi JF-Expert Member

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    Hebu tutumie hekima na fikra katika kuliezea swala OIC; tusitetee saaaana maswala la "dini yetu - dini yao" bila kufikira kama tunatoa mifano na arguments zenye mantika au la. Wewe unasema swala la benki ya wanawake; hii inahusiana vipi na OIC wakati hauingilii uhuru wa kikatiba wa mwanaume..?? Tanzania kuwa na ubalozi Rome and Rome kuwa na mahusiano sidhani kama si sawa na OIC hata kidogo. Tuna ubalozi wa Iran, tuna falme za Kiarabu n.k. hapa nchini. Tuna mikataba ya Iran hadi kuwasomesha waandishi wa habari wa ITV na watanzania wengine.

    Kufunguliwa kwa benki ya kikristo, hebu jaribu kufikiria na Islamic banking ambayo ime-gusa mpaka benki za serikali isiyo na dini kikatiba. Benki ya kikristo ni benki binafsi and not ya serikali, usiingize serikali kwenye maswala ya dini yako. Kuna mtu mwingine alitoa maoni kuwa mbona kuna shule za kikristo, mbona kuna baraza la maaskofu and not Kadhi and OIC..?? Lakini, je, baraza la maaskofu limeingizwa kwenye katiba..?? Je, linahusisha serikali katika gharama na mambo mengineyo..?? Ni baraza binafsi la kidini lisilogusa shughuli wala mipango ya serikali kwa namna yoyote ile. Hiyo Kadhi na OIC inaigusa serikali kwa mtazamo mkubwa sana. Kumbuka kama ni mtu unayefikiria, ukiingia kwenye jumuiya yoyote kama EAC, UN, COMESA, SADC, ukumbuke kuwa kuna principles ambazo lazima uzitii and not just kukaa kama picha. Sasa OIC pia ni jumuiya na ina kanuni zake ambazo ni legally binding immediately unaposign. Kanuni hizo ziko kwenye mlengo wa kidini and not otherwise. Tusivutane kwa kufikiri kila mtu ni mkosa mawazo.

    Kwa mtaji huu, we will remain poor kiakili mpaka mwisho wa dunia as bado kuna watu ambao wako focused on how they can promote udini ndani ya nchi instead of sitting back and think on how wataikomboa nchi from umasikini.

    Mtanisamehe kwa jazba, but kwa kweli huu mjadala sasa unakera. Kwenda mbele kurudi nyuma kila siku wakati jibu liko wazi la kwa nini watu wanapinga.
     
  18. Buchanan

    Buchanan JF Diamond Member

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    Ndugu Stringerbell acha kuwa "naive" kiasi hicho! Mimi sina mawazo ya mtu yeyote, nina mawazo yangu mwenyewe! Kwani nilivyo-cite OIC Charter nimemtaja Nyerere?
    Hebu niambie kama Katiba ya OIC haisemi kwamba lengo la OIC ni kueneza Uislamu! Hapo juu nimeandika kama kwa sehemu kama ifuatavyo: "...to foster noble Islamic values concerning moderation, tolerance, respect for
    diversity, preservation of Islamic symbols and common heritage and to defend
    the universality of Islamic religion
    ."

    Sasa mimi Mkristo nina jukumu gani ya ku-defend the Universality of Islamic Religion kwa kisingizio cha misaada ya Waarabu? Na kama unadai kwamba nchi wanachama hawalazimishwi kujiunga, hicho kipengele hakina maana yoyote na walikiweka kwa bahati mbaya tu? Narudia kusema tena, we are not fools, you can't fool us simply like that! Kama Waarabu wana uchungu sana na sisi, labda kwa kupunguza machungu ya kutufanya watumwa, watupe hiyo misaada bure, bila kutulazimisha kujiunga nao na kuanza kulinda eti "Islamic Symbols!"
    Wewe kama ulitembelewa na Jehova's Witness ulilazimishwa kujiunga na nini ndio utembelewe?
     
  19. MwanaFalsafa1

    MwanaFalsafa1 JF-Expert Member

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    Swala la OIC ni gumu sana kwa sababu ya ukweli kwamba ina husu dini tupende tusipende. Kuna watu siyo wadini na wala hawaangalii hili swala kwa mtazamo wa dini ila pale pindi wanapo sikia mwingine anapinga kujinga na OIC basi anaona mtu huyu ana pinga kwa misingi ya dini. Watu wakisha anza kuangalia hili swala hivyo basi kuta kuwa hamna kusikilizana wala kuangalia faida na hasara za OIC.

    Kwanza kuna watu wanaongelea Tanzania kuwa na ubalozi Vatican. TANZANIA HAINA UBALOZI VATICAN! Tanzania ina ubalozi Rome ambayo ina tuwakilisha pia nchi nyingi za maeneo hayo ukiacha Vatican yenyewe. Na hata tunge kuwa na ubalozi Vatican (Kama mtu una chukulia Vatican kama nchi inayo endeshwa kwa dini) basi ita kuwa sawa na Tanzania kuwa na ubalozi Iran au Saudi Arabia ambazo ni nchi zinazo ongozwa kwa dini. Pia OIC ni jumuiya na siyo nchi kwa hiyo kulinganisha Tanzania kuwa na mahusiano na Vatican ambayo siyo jumuiya ni sawa na kulinganisha machungwa na maepo.

    Sababu nyingine inayo tolewa ni kwa nini nchi kama Kenya na Uganda zimejiunga. Kujua kwa nini nchi hizi zime jiunga lazima mtu usome na uelewe nini kili pelekea nchi hizi kujiunga. Haileti maana kufanya vitu kisa tu nchi nyingine imefanya. Mazingira ya nchi zingine siyo mazingira ya Tanzania. Kwa hiyo labda useme Uganda na Kenya zina fananaje linapo kuja swala hili hauwezi tu kusema tujiunge kisa Ugada na Kenya wamejiunga. Je tuki jiunga na nchi hizi zika jitoa basi na sisi tuta fuata mkumbo tena na kujitoa?

    Sababu nyingine ambayo nimeona ni kwani Zanzibar ikijiunga ina athiri vipi wengine. Tanzania na Zanzibar zipo connected kwenye mambo yote ya kitaifa kwa hiyo kusema Zanzibar kujiunga na OIC haita gusa upande mwingine wa OIC ni sawa sawa na kusema uta weka pili pili upande mmoja wa mchuzi kisha hiyo pili pili kuto gusa upande mwingine. It does not make sense! Zanzibar kujiunga na OIC kuta athiri kwa namna moja au nyingine upande mwingine wa muungano na kwa kanuni za Muungano kitu chochote kinacho gusa taifa zima basi hilo swala lipo chini ya serikali ya JAMHURI YA MUUNGANO WA TANZANIA.

    Ila kuna mwenzetu mmoja humu katoa wazo zuri. Kwa nini basi tusiweke hapa jamvini kanuni za OIC linapo kuja swala la kujiunga tujue kabisa ni nchi gani zinazo takiwa katika jumuiya hiyo. Tukisha angalia hilo pia tuangalie basi nchi ambayo isha jiunga na OIC ita takiwa kutimiza wajibu gani na OIC itatoa faida gani? Maana so far tunaongelea tu in broad terms tuta pata misaada bila hata ya kuangalia masharti ya hiyo misaada ita kuwa nini.

    Hili swala ni controversial na touchy kwa wengi lakini ukweli lazima usemwe inapo bidi na tukubali kwamba uamuzi wa kujiungana OIC kamwe hauwezi kuwa wa upande mmoja. Tuache kujadili hili swala juu juu tu lakini tuangalie kiundani faida na hasara zake kwa Tanzania na si kuangalia tu hii jumuiya ime fanyia nini nchi zingine maana masharti waliopewa nchi zingine nyuma ya milango kamwe hatu wezi kujua. Asanteni wakuu.
     
  20. M

    Mkandara Verified User

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    Kishazi,
    Ninge kujibu vizuri sqali lako kama usingeweka majibu unayofikiria wewe kuwa ndio majibu. Kila swali ulouliza umelijibu kwa fikra zako sasa sielewi kumetaka jibu lipi..Hii yaonyesha wazi ufinyu wa kufikiri kwa sababu huwezi niuliza 2+2 kama sio 5, jibu lake ni nini? Nikijibu hutaelewa kwa mana tayari akili yako imesha register 5 na sababu zake unazo mwenyewe.

    Pili ktk kila ulouliza hakuna hata moja nilosema hivyo, Sikusema benki ya wanawake, sikusema lolote kuhusu Ubalozi Vatican.. Na mwisho hakuna benki yoyote inayoweza funguliwa nchini pasipo kufuata taratibu na baraka za Benki kuu..Hata hizo za Kikristu ziwe benki binafsi bado zitafuata sheria na utaratibu ule ule. Na jabu basi sijui kama unajua nani insurer wao, they're backed by who, na guaranteed by who.. unasema tu ili mradi kufurahisha baraza maadam umesikia benki ni ya mtu binafsi.

    Kifupi I don't wonna know na haihusu! 'cause they serve wananchi na hata kama nataka kuweka fedha zangu au kununua share kwao, I will ask them those question for the sake banking. Cause I believe, secrecy in banking is of little value if the assets being protected are not safe - Has nothing to do with Ukristu au Uislaam, it's all business....Period!

    Trust me fungueni hata benki 20 na hata hiyo ya Vativcan hakuna Muislam atakaye hoji ujio wa benki hiyo kwa sababu tunaamini benki hiyo ina manufaa kwa wananchi (Wakristu wakiwa baina yao)..Kwa hiyo mkuu Waislaam hawana haja wala sababu ya kuuliza swala linalohusu uwekezaji wa Wakristu, isipokuwa Wakristu wanataka kujua kila swala linalohusu uwekezaji wa Waislaam

    Zipo NGO kibao za kikristu nchini zikihudumia Wakristu na hata kuwashawishi familia maskini na watoto wao wafuate Ukristo ili wapate misaada..Umesikia Waislaam wakihoji misaada kama hii? sidhani, kwa sababu Waislaam wanajua jibu lake - Kama nanyi mnaweza basi fanyeni hakatazwi mtu..Wakifanya imekuwa kosa, kisha basi wakilalamika bado mnashangaa kwa nini Waislaam wanalalamika hali mmewazuia kufanya kama nyie..How stupid can one be!

    Na trust me, after this election 2010 ambayo CCM anashinda kutokana na Ujinga wa watu kama nyie...mimi nitajiunga na Waislaam wenye siasa kali. Nitaachana kabisa na habari za CCM, Chadema, CUF,CCJ na sijui upuuzi gani...hizi siasa za kupigia mbuzi gitaa wenyewe wakitikisa mikia kwa kula kidogo walichopewa na kamba zao shingoni wakijisikia huru zaidi, kumbe kesho wataishia Vingunguti machinjioni..

    Yawezekana kabisa solution ya Uhuru na haki ya Wadanganyika inaweza tokana na Upinzani toka ktk Udini..Imekuwa upuuzi mtupu kupigizana makelele humu JF na wanafiki ambao kwao hakuna Watanzania isipokuwa kwa kupitia imani zao...And for this , CCM will rule Milele na milele - AMIN!
     
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