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Stimulus Package for Tanzania? A case against...

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Mzee Mwanakijiji, Mar 12, 2009.

  1. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

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    Now, countries around the world are setting up what are known as "bailout plans" of which the most famous one is the so called "a stimulus package". From China to Germany, from Australia to the US governments are setting up these battle plans packages to "stimulate" their economies so as to restore productive economic activities and hence avoid the eventual consequences of the accepted reality the world face world economic meltdown.

    Given what we see is happening in other parts of the world and given the call by President Kikwete that IMF/World Bank should prepare a stimulus package for Africa I'm tempted to ask a number of questions:

    a. Does Tanzania need its own economic stimulus package?

    b. What is it that need to be stimulating? employment, industrial production, agriculture activity, technology, etc? What really that didn't need stimulating 15 years ago?

    c. Who should finance such a package (the government, donors, word financial institutions, our own financial institutions or a combo of these)?

    d. Wouldn't we consider that the foreign aids we have been receiving through the years and especially near a billion dollar last year to be forms of economic stimulus packages? or only after being labeled and wrapped as such? Hence, we really don't need a new economic package!?

    Otherwise;

    Why don't we forget about economic stimulus package from abroad and prepare our own NATIONAL RECONSTRUCTION AND REBUILDING PACKAGE? (NAREPA)

    a. Massive investment on Infrastructure especially road systems, drainage system, power generation (no more vijenereta). Either start constructing Stielgers Hydropower Plant or Build a Nuclear Power Project.

    b Technological Research and Application turning MIT into world class center of excellence in technological Research where minds of innovations would be let loose!

    c. Investment in Education (need not say much). Come up with something similar to Kalamazoo's Promise call it "Tanzania's Promise". What is Kalamazoo Promise you might wonder.. well.. nimekumegea tafuna!

    d. Reforming Muhimbili National Hospital into Muhimbili Health Systems Network (which will combine everything from clinics, specialty hospitals, research centers, etc) which means returning Muhimbili University to the Hospital (I have no idea whose idea it was to remove Muhimbili College from the Hospital!).

    e. Removing Prison Service from Internal Affairs and put it under High Court. The aim is to have this service to be the only armed service that will ensure courts decisions are carried out, hold prisons, look for fugitives etc. It'll be something similar to U.S Marshals (Police and Prisons should not be under the same Minister!)

    f. National Agriculture Mechanization and Transformation Project.. the aim should be nothing less than spectacular!. The aim is moving our tools from hand hoe to tractor (mechanisation) and from peasants to farmers (transformation) within 10 years!

    g. Political and Government Reform Project = NEW NATIONAL CONSTITUTION. Whichi will:

    - Return to the original articles of the Union. Any deviation from the should be renegotiated and by the consent of the people

    - Make our Prime Minister an Executive Prime Minister (elected); Zanzibar will have an Executive Prime Minister, elected too (meaning will form Governments).

    - There will be only one President of United Republic of Tanzania who will be the Head of State and Head of National Government

    - Both parts of the Union will have their own House of Representatives. Each of them should not have more than 250 Reps

    - There will be one National Assembly which will deal with all things UNION. It should have not more than 100 members with every region given the same number of sits.

    - etc etc
     
  2. Dark City

    Dark City JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu hii imetulia sana.

    But who do you think is wasting his time think of these stuff which don't make sense to them. They are in power and that's all they needed, what else? Just expect to be told that you should wait until their term is over!

    Just for you,
    When others were busy making miraculous machines, most of us were busy making children!
     
  3. Kinyambiss

    Kinyambiss JF-Expert Member

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    How do you propose we fund this?
     
  4. Shapu

    Shapu JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu MMKJ,

    Most of the time i read your posts, your makala etc.... I always ask myself who is this person Mwanakijiji? Where is he? What is he doing? Do you have anything that i can read even in private to substantiate your ideas Vs the kind of the person you are. I am really impressed with what you post. In general you are everything...the other day you analysed about DECI DECI as if you are a financial analyst by professional, the other time you came up with hadithi, sijui ngonjera as if wewe ni mtu wa arts and culture. Now in this thread you are taking me somewhere else as an economist/strategic advisor. Anyways mnaweza ignore hizo labda zilikuwa chai tu...

    Now Mzee, the stimulus package we have been needing it with or without the financial meltdown. And in fact we have been given the stimulus in the past so many times but we have never managed to do anything with it due to many reason including poor management of the funds, UFISADI mkubwa, poor strategies etc etc. Where the the country is run by politicians in the technical issues it is very difficult to come up with sth. So to me it does not make any difference whether we come up with one or not. The resolution to all these rests on the management in this case government which is in power.

    We need to change.
     
  5. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

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    now.. that is a good question; Do you have any idea how we should fund this?
     
  6. 911

    911 JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu Mkjj,hongera!
    Tatizo ni kuwa,utapaza sauti weeeh...Hadi sauti ikauke ila wenzako(those in power) wanachojali kwa sasa ni namna watakavyoshinda uchaguzi wa serikali za mitaa na uchaguzi mkuu huku wakijitahidi kuficha madudu kama ya kina kagoda etc....Kwao suala la stimulus package sio big deal sana kudeal nalo internally ,afterall we have already talked to our "wajomba" about that.Why to worry then???
     
  7. Dark City

    Dark City JF-Expert Member

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    Very simple (in may be a non-Zero approach) by stopping EPA and her brothers!
     
  8. Recta

    Recta JF-Expert Member

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    Tanzania needs and has always needed stimulus package(s). We have been granted various assistance by donors in almost every category since independence. But what have we achieved? NOTHING, if you dare say.

    Without stimulus packages, this country will come to a halt. We also need transformation for any funding to provide desired results.



    We need to stimulate everything. We have not started anything yet. All that is done is to maintain what is called peace and tranquility to a certain extent.

    Unemployment rate is exorbitantly high, industrial production is a joke (if there is anything at all), agricultural activities is at its primitive stage (no significant investment in agriculture, is worth mentioning), technology is all imported (we are witnesses to innovations from outside world, we are simply observers of technology. We have managed to kill our research centers (Nyumbu and others).

    Financiers of these stimulus should be all stakeholders (A combo of all that you have mentioned). The GOT is not willing or has all the time failed to deliver. Policies and strategies must be put in place to enable stable growth to all that we wish to achieve.

    The GOT can take a lead on this by ensuring that enabling environment is established for sustainable growth. Currently, the normal wananchi have no significant role in any economical activity in this country.

    With the current economic melt-down, I wonder if there is any commitment that will be fulfilled by the donors to honor what they promised for third world countries (especially Tanzania). USA is busy trying to sort things out at home. I am not sure if they will look at what they promised TZ last year.

    We have wasted enough resources that could be used to stimulate our economy. With the way things are done, I do not see how we can plan with the resources that we have in anything productive (very little hope). The grants we received last year will not be enough to spearhead all that we need to do to stimulate our economy. Most of the funds are not even granted yet. We have to generate our own internal funds by giving people more opportunities to prosper and contribute to our basket.
     
  9. Dark City

    Dark City JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu nahofia hiyo hapo juu! Wakulu wanaweza kuanza kuandaa hafla (party) kwa ajili ya kuongeza nyumba ndogo na kuzidisha kasheshe ya watoto wa mitaani!! Si unajua kuwa akili za Wabongo wengi zilivyokaa kwenye zipu?? (Joke)
     
  10. Recta

    Recta JF-Expert Member

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    Good Idea. This is what we call self reliance. For any independent country to prosper, internal forces must apply fully in all sectors of her economy. NAREPA or similar initiative can be of much use than donor supported stimulus.

    Long term plans should be put into force. Currently we spend too much money and time to discuss and implement projects that become obsolete and inadequate after a very short span of time. We have to start implementing projects that will take many years to go back and upgrade.

    Grand corruption is a result of these vijenereta type of projects.

    This needs to be worked out now. We are late in establishment of research centers that can be categorized as centers of excellence. It will take many years of investment in education, construction of reliable infrastructure and directing people to think in those lines before we can fully benefit from this investment.

    Yes, we have to start giving priority education. The country must invest tirelessly in education. From what I see now, we are heading to importing experts from all over the world if we shall continue to play with our education system. We need to educate all Tanzanians to University level (for engineering, science, and health) otherwise we shall end up in professional melt-down soon.

    Agriculture needs industries in order to grow. It is in industries that agricultural products get their market. Without investing in industries, we shall never see any growth/improvement in agriculture. Peasants must be forced to grow to farmers due to market demands from industries.

    Certainly. A new constitution is mandatory in Tanzania. We do not need to emphasize more on this.

    Our constitution is made by few for their own intentions and has never been useful enough to our current situation and set goals. We need a constitution made by as many Tanzanians as possible, for all Tanzanians.
     
  11. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    We have to really understand what is going on, and why these counties are doing this.these counties have big economies, their economies are either driven by a strong stock market or heavy exports, in some cases both are applicable.Their banking systems are advanced, and make extensive use of credit.The stimulus packages are aimed at reviving the flow of trade, money and credit. unless we understand this and see a stimulus package for what it is, we will be doing a stimulus package on a "monkey see, monkey do" basis. We do not have a strong stock market, not even a commodities market, credit is virtually nonexistent, our exports apart from a few natural products are laughable, so there is nothing to stimulate basically.To be able to have an effective stimulus package you need to have a strong economy that needs a jolt, we need to build an economy, not stimulate one.

    Again, whatever you call it, stimulus is hardly the world or approach, we need something akin to a Marshall Plan (whether foreign or domestic sourced is another hot debate) than a stimulus package.

    From the above reasoning, it is not only true that we do not need a stimulus package, we cannot have a truly stimulating package under the existing conditions. We need more of a reconstruction than a stimulus.

    All of the above, but first of all the infrastructure network and the educational system.If you do not start with the two you may get there but you will need to use extra energy. The infrastructure network has a habit of being an engine for self generation of economic activities.Education should obviously be a priority if we do not want our resources to be controlled and siphoned by some few Tanzanians and a lot of qualified but unscrupulous foreigners.

    If outsiders are to be involved it sould be because they see our efforts and want to help, a true commitment to change will always attract outside help from our well wishers, and we shouldn't turn that down because we cannot afford to do so, nor is it in our interest.What we should avoid is to go into any big project with the aid mentality

    [/QUOTE]
    d. Wouldn't we consider that the foreign aids we have been receiving through the years and especially near a billion dollar last year to be forms of economic stimulus packages? or only after being labeled and wrapped as such? Hence, we really don't need a new economic package!?
     
  12. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

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    Africa-IMF summit wants bailout strategy for Africa

    2009-03-12 10:59:21
    By Perege Gumbo


    The two-day Africa-International Monetary Fund meeting ended in Dar es Salaam yesterday with President Jakaya Kikwete, IMF managing Director Dominique Strauss-Kahn and former UN secretary general Kofi Annan jointly calling for concerted and urgent world action to reduce the impact of the global financial meltdown on African economies.

    In a joint statement issued after the meeting, they said the crisis affected the lives and hopes of many people around the world.

    They stated that the crisis called for urgent responses from all partners and called for the international community to fulfil the promises they made to increase aid flow appreciably.

    ``More resources for the poorest are urgently required, including through the doubling of the IMF`s concessional resources and countries must further open to trade with Africa,`` said the statement.

    The leaders also asked African nations to continue pursuing and strengthening their economic policies and ensure good governance ``which could be sacrificed in this time of crisis``.

    They added that further efforts were needed to create conditions that would attract private investments to the continent.

    The leaders explained that it was crucial for IMF to further support Africa through more financing extended with greater flexibility, enhanced policy dialogues and a strengthening of Africa`s voice in the Fund.

    They advocated global solidarity in meeting the severe challenges facing Africa and the world in general, in part by ensuring that the continent was ``fully represented in the evolving global architecture``.

    United Nations Deputy Secretary General Dr Asha-Rose Migiro had earlier underscored the importance of overseas development assistance to Africa, especially at this time when the world is facing an economic downturn.

    She told the meeting that the continent urgently needs the assistance so as to attain the eight UN Millennium Develop Goals, where it is lagging behind, as well as address other pressing issues.

    The UN`s second-in-command said it was of crucial importance for international organisations and development partners to protect Africa`s poorest and vulnerable countries from the impact of the financial crisis by honouring their financial commitments.

    She noted that private external finance had been frozen and there was little room to raise more domestic revenue, adding that there was a need for a genuine desire to deliver on existing commitments to increase ODA or the MDGs would remain elusive.

    Dr Migiro underscored the gravity of Africa`s plight, saying the economic downturn combined with high food prices, climate change and volatile energy prices in presenting daunting challenges to the continent`s policy makers.

    She called on the donor community to deliver on promises made at different times and meetings, such as the one made at the 2005 Gleneagles G8 Summit to more than double annual ODA to Africa by next year worth US$ 62 billion in nominal terms.

    ``The amount sounds like a huge sum, but it appears more attainable when we consider the trillions of dollars that have been committed to stimulus packages in industrialised countries,`` she told the meeting, called to discuss how African economies could cope in
     
  13. K

    Koba JF-Expert Member

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    ..stimulus my azz!
     
  14. bm21

    bm21 JF-Expert Member

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    But why JK ask IMF prepare stimulus package? African countries have leaders and we even have African Union leader, whats his role in this? I understand the financial constraint for most of the African countries so as African Union for implementing such stimulus package. However, they could have came with something (the Plan) and ask for financial assistance for implementation. If IMF comes with stimulus package for Africa as requested by JK, surely, it wont be a stimulus package for African countries rather that developed world. JK is always messing up!
     
  15. Masanja

    Masanja JF-Expert Member

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    Wakulu mimi siyo mjuvi wa uchumi, lakini you dont need to be one, to understand what is going on in our banana republics in Africa.

    Jana nilimwangalia na kumsikiliza Kofi Annan akihojiwa na France 24 International akiwa hapa Dar. He was making a case for stimuluz package for Africa. With due respect, I couldnt agree with Annan. I know the old man has good intentions but to me, even if we get stimulus package it can make no difference.

    All Africans of good will and intentions (especially the Annan`s of this continent) should wake up and start questioning their colleagues who are ruling this continent instead of looking upto the west for solutions of our problems.

    Kinachoniumiza, ni kwamba hata akina Annan bado wanashindwa kuwa critical na viongozi wetu..bado wanasukuma lawama kwa mataifa tajiri. Hivi kweli jamani..unategemea kwamba katika kipindi kigumu kama hiki nchi itoe $$$ zake kuwasaidia waafrika ambao wanajua kabisa... hela wataiba na kurudisha kwenye mabenki yao ulaya? Hivi jiulize..hata kama ni wewe..unamsaidia mtu..lets say kwa kumlipia karo wakati una beba box huko majuu......harafu pesa anakula shule haendi..what will be your reaction? Hata ingekuwa mimi I would have done the same!


    Its high time, we concetrate on challenging our leaders to allow more democratic space and be responsble rulers. Some one might argue that economic development doesnt need democracy (citing China). But to me Africa is unique, its because of lack of rule of law and good governance that we are here where we are. Ukiwa na akina Chenge wana millions huko nje na bado wanakuwa appointed ministers, wezi wanaiba..wanaombwa kujiuzulu na kupewa haki zao zote... unakuwa na deal kama za akina Richmond, Dowans name them...unapata wasi wasi na uwezo wetu wa kufikiria. Hata hiyo stimulus package naamini viongozi wetu wengi na raia wao..hawajui maana yake..ila wameamua kwenda na upepo wa Obama and co....Kwa kuangalia CNN...

    Hivi leo Kikwete umpe million 500 dolari za ki-USA. Ukimuuliza atazifanyia nini..Honestly..sijui kama atakupa jibu sahihi!!! Kifupi, the poor soul hana plan ya kuzitumia hizo pesa!

    Make NO MISTAKE no country is interested to help Africa. No such country. The best they can do is to feed refugees and IDPs in camps! Period. There can be no marshall plan, stimulus package or anything for Africa. What Straus Kan and friends are doing is just a minimalist approach to be seen to be doing something for these black souls. Morality at times has its space in international relations.

    najua kabisa watu wana intentions njema kabisa hapa. LAKINI UKWELI NI KWAMBA AFRICA TO MOVE BEYOND THE CURRENT ABYSS TUNAHITAJI INTERNAL AUDITING YA MAISHA YETU NA JINSI TUNAVYOJITAWALA.

    Otherwise, as usual...next week G-20 watakutana London (only South Africa from the continent has been invited and Ethiopia to participate in the meeting). They will issue declarations and commitments. But as always its just HOT AIR!

    my suggestions: All these Africans wanaopiga kelele eti Africa isaidiwe the likes of Ngozi, Annan, MO Ibrahim na wengineo. Let them come to terms with the reality. Let them get hard with their compatriots. Africa ya leo haiwezi kutoka ilipo kwa misaada ya nje. Solutions ziko ndani ya bara hili. Whether we are prepared to swallow these bitter pills, its another question altogether.
     
  16. Shapu

    Shapu JF-Expert Member

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    Totally agree with you! In Tanzania we need to build and build and build our economy. You do not talk on stimulating something which is not there. You stimulate the economy which was performing and now has gone dormant.
     
  17. Kinyambiss

    Kinyambiss JF-Expert Member

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    cute but I'm afraid EPA is nothing in terms of all the development objectives that Mwanakijiji suggested.. My point is this, we need to focus on the real important issue. Creating a federal govt will drastically increase the number of people who are self consumed..watajiongezea tuu mishahara kwenye hayo mabaraza ya wawakilishi itakuwa tabu.
     
  18. Kinyambiss

    Kinyambiss JF-Expert Member

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    Oh and mwanakijiji... about the prisons idea, hakuna haja yakuihamisha. Sheria tuu uzingatiwe wafungwa wajenge madarasa mikoani huko watoto wasome, wachonge madawati sio kwenda kumjengea nanyaro ukuta kwake lincon road nakulimba mashamba yake. Its really a non-issue.
     
  19. Mpita Njia

    Mpita Njia JF-Expert Member

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    Simple solution... ongeza kodi serikali ipate fedha za kufund
     
  20. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Ukitaka kuongeza kodi ni lazima uwe na cha kutoza kodi, as in you must have businesses, you must have people with purchasing power, you must have a sizable portion of your population doing some acceptable level of consumption.

    Sasa wewe tatizo lako uchumi wako mdogo, unataka kukuza uchumi wako, unahitaji fedha za kukuza uchumi, unaulizwa utazipata wapi, unajibu utautoza kodi uchumi huu mdogo?

    Huoni kwamba utaua hata huo uchumi mdogo uliopo?

    Ni kama vile una ng'ombe aliye na njaa, unataka kumlisha ili anone, halafu unaulizwa utapata wapi cha kumlisha ng'ombe huyu ili anone vizuri na wewe unasema nitamkamua maziwa na kumnywesha maziwa.

    Huyu ng'ombe hana maziwa, ndiyo sababu unataka anone, kwa hiyo ukitaka kumkamua maziwa sana sana atatoa damu tu. Ukitaka kutoza uchumi watu ambao hawana level kubwa ya kipato wala purchasing power utakachofanya ni kuua enterpreneurship na kupunguza consumption tu.

    Utaangusha uchumi badala ya kujenga.

    Kinachotakiwa ni kupunguza kodi ili kuchochea biashara, biashara ikipanda na watu wakipata hela na kuwa na purchasing power serikali inaweza kupandisha kodi pole pole.
     
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