Stephen Hawking on Religion: Science will Win!!!

[Nyaralego]

Wewe usinitishe wala nini, nishampa mungu chance ya kuni strike down dead mara kibao hapa na kashindwa. Mie sikutishi mwanangu, nakuambia ukweli. Do not mock GOD.

Mungu ni fix tupu, hamna mungu."Mungu" katengenezwa na binadamu na anatumiwa na wajanja kuwa control wajinga.
Nani kasema I have the answers? Kati ya anayejifanya anamjua mungu, na anayekubali kwamba hawezi kusema anamjua mungu kwa sababu mungu hajajidhihirisha kwake, nani anajifanya anajua majibu?

As far as I know kifo ndiyo mwisho wa mchezo, hizo bs nyingine za mbingu ni watu wanataka kujifariji kwamba eti kutakuwa na kuonana tena na wapendwa wetu.Na wengine wanataka uwafanyie kazi hapa duniani na kukupa ahadi za "pie in the sky". Kifo ndiyo mwisho wa mchezo, na vitisho vyako vya soul yangu kwenda motoni havinibabaishi kwa sababu mimi kwanza najua kwamba sina hata hiyo soul.

BRAVO BRAVO!!! continue to convince yourself. You are indeed in Hell here on earth.

 

[Kiranga]

You know this got me thinking, what is so original about any of the arguments the religious folk have posted so far anyway?? Is it the belief in a 'white' Jewish messiah or a 'brown' Middle Eastern prophet, can anyone here honestly argue in the defense of religion without using examples, beliefs and teachings from long dead Jewish and Arab people, who wrote books that might have held water in their times but are so obviously outdated in the 21st century? Colour coding some of the great scientists of our time won't really get us anywhere will it now. . .:twitch:

Hahahaha,

Unanifurahisha paradox.Kwa maneno mengine,jamaa anaona kati ya wale wanaotumia arguments zilizotumika tangu enzi za uandishi wa biblia ya miaka 6,000 iliyopita, na wale tunaotumia arguments za modern science zilizokuwa established miaka 200 iliyopita, kati ya hawa wawili hata kama wote hawana originality, lakini mtu wa ku complain swala la originality over ni huyu anayetumia arguments za sayansi za miaka 200 iliyopita.

Like you asked, what is so original about religion?

Hilarious.

 

[Kiranga]

BRAVO BRAVO!!! continue to convince yourself. You are indeed in Hell here on earth.

There is no greater hell than that of the ignorance of submitting to a non-existent god, and that is the hell you are going through.

I thank my inquisitiveness that I am not yoked by the same chains as you, the unseen mental chains are even worse than the physical chains used to contain slaves of the olden days.

Hivi kweli kabisa mtu na akili zake anaamini katika mungu mwenye uwezo wote, akili zote na upendo wote anayewaumba watu mabilioni, only kuja kuwachoma moto katika hell milele na milele.

Mtu na akili zake kabisa anaamini upupu huu ? Hell ? Mimi nilifikiri ni expression tu au mji huko Michigan, kumbe kunawatu wanaamini upupu huu?

Kwa taarifa yako tu, Hell is actually a very cold place in the winter.

 

[Nyaralego]

There is no greater hell than that of the ignorance of submitting to a non-existent god, and that is the hell you are going through.

I thank my inquisitiveness that I am not yoked by the same chains as you, the unseen mental chains are even worse than the physical chains used to contain slaves of the olden days.

No you are wrong. I am not going through any hell. I am quite happy and believe in GOD.
Any one with half a mind is inquisitive, its not a talent , it's human nature.

 

[Kiranga]

Hell can actually be a very cold place in the winter.

 

[Kiranga]

No you are wrong. I am not going through any hell. I am quite happy and believe in GOD.
Any one with half a mind is inquisitive, its not a talent , it's human nature.

Obviously you have less than half a mind, otherwise you could have realized the shortcomings of your assertions.

Nimeuliza hapo juu mtoe proof ya existence ya mungu, mmeshindwa.

Nimeeleza paradox ya complexity na kama kuna mtu anaweza kuondoa hii double standard, mmeshindwa.

Nimerudia countless times classic arguments against god, including the clash between free will and god's perfect knowledge, hakuna mtu hata mmoja aliyenijibu kikamilifu.

Kufikiria kwamba kuna hell baada ya maisha haya ndiyo hell ya kweli.

 

[ngoshwe]

What exactly are you saying? Unaweza ku articulate ? By the way Einstein si mungu alikosea mara nyingi tu, na sayansi si mtu mmoja. Unachotaka kusema na hii essay ni nini? Nishasoma si tu hii essay, bali kitabu kizima cha essays zote muhimu za Einstein, niambie unataka kusema nini specifically, the key word being specifically.

Achana na Einstein huyo, kuna Newton aliyekuwa a horrible theist, na a great scientist.Lakini hili haliwezi kuwa basis ya kunifanya niamini katika mungu.Kama kuna kitu sayansi imenifundisha, ni kwamba usijudge ukweli wa mambo kwa sababu mtu fulani kayasema, mtume fulani, au mwanasayansi maarufu fulani kayasema, ukifanya hivi utakuwa unaingia katika cult/ religion.

Ninachofanya ni ku judge mambo kutokana na merit yake, bila kujali nani kayasema.

Kwa hiyo ukitaka kuni impress kwa kuniletea maneno ya Einstein, kama yatakuwa ya kipuuzi hayaachi kuwa ya kipuuzi, Einstein alikosea kwenye Cosmological Constant, na huo haukuwa mwanzo wala mwisho wa kukosea kwake.Uzuri sayansi inaruhusu mtu kukosea, sio kama kanisa katoliki kwamba ukiwa papa huwezi kukosea.

Kwa hiyo leta hoja, usilete cut and paste ambazo hazina maelezo.

Nadhani unazidi kujikangaya hapa. Nilete hoja gani wakati ushaelewa kutokana na hilo andiko? Unajaribu ku influence wengi kuwa sayansi ina amini kutokuwepo kwa Mungu, wakati wale unaowafuata wenzio waliamini dini!!. Sasa unajaribu kusema walikose?? Hii kali!!

Ukizungumza kanisa Katoliki or whatever halikosolewi unaonekana kusimamia hoja ambazo huzielewi pia. Kama lisingekosolewa nadhani usingeyaona makanisa yenye mlengo tofauti na katoliki!.

Unaonekana bado unazidi kurefusha mjaala kwa kumpiga Einstein and Kusema "kuna Newton" ambaye kwako aliyekuwa a horrible theist! Badae utatuambia Galileo na wengine ndo zaidi. Wakati huo huo mwanzoni ulilalia kwenye theories za "relativity " ambazo kwa hizo ungepata kujua uwepo wa usawa na utofauti wa vitu fulani hapa duniani. Kwa akili yako si rahisi kuelewa haya mzee. Unaonekana unasoma pasipo "self reasoning" ambayo uingekusaidia kujenga hoja hapa. Ukikimbia kimbia na akina Newton na marehemu wengine unaonekana bado hujakomaa kwenye nyanja hiyo ya sayansi kiasi cha kufikia kusema "MUngu hayupo" ili hali ukiamimi kuwa hukuwepo kabla ya sasa na hautakuwpo baada ya hapa ulipo na huwezi kutuambia ulikuwa wapi kabla na utaenda wapi baada ya hapa.

 

[Kiranga]

Nadhnai unazidi kujikangaya hapa. Nilete hoja gani wakati ushaelewa kutokana na hilo andiko?. Ukizungumza kanisa Katoliki or whatever halikosolewi unaonekana kusimamia hoja ambazo huzielewi pia. Kama lisingekosolewa nadhani usingeyaona makanisa yenye mlengo tofauti na katoliki!.

Unaonekana bado unazidi kurefusha mjaala kwa kumpiga Einstein and Kusema "kuna Newton" ambaye kwako aliyekuwa a horrible theist! Badae utatuambia Galileo na wengine ndo zaidi. Wakati huo huo mwanzoni ulilalia kwenye theories za "relativity " ambazo kwa hizo ungepata kujua uwepo wa usawa na utofauti wa vitu fulani hapa duniani. Kwa akili yako si rahisi kuelewa haya mzee. Unaonekana unasoma pasipo "self reasoning" ambayo uingekusaidia kujenga hoja hapa. Ukikimbia kimbia na akina Newton na marehemu wengine unaonekana bado hujakomaa kwenye nyanja hiyo ya sayansi kiasi cha kufikia kusema "MUngu hayupo" ili hali ukiamimi kuwa hukuwepo kabla ya sasa na hautakuwpo baada ya hapa ulipo na huwezi kutuambia ulikuwa wapi kabla na utaenda wapi baada ya hapa.

Nimekwambia sayansi si mtu, ni arguments na concepts.

Nimekwambia articulate unachotaka kusema, alichoandika Einstein kinaweza kutafsiriwa in a thousand different ways, nipe swali kwa maneno yako, unaweza?

Kati yangu ninayeandika mambo kwa maneno yangu na wewe unayeleta copy paste bila kujua ku articulate issues mwenyewe nani kakosa "self reasoning"?

 

[Hukumuzuku]

Sijasema chochote kuhusu level yake ya originality, nimeongelea comprehension. Unafanya comparison ya "apples to oranges" na wewe unaelekea kwa mwenzako huko kwenye low level ya comprehension.Nikikwambia naamini there is hardly anything new under the sun na vitu karibu vyote vimeandikwa, na however big a breakthrough you will make today in quantum physics or some obscure field, wahindi watakuwa walishawahi kuliandika katika ma Rig-Veda huko maelfu ya miaka iliyopita, Wayunani walishayasema, kina Edgar Allan Poe walishayaandikia mashairi na kina H.G Wells walishayaandikia hadithi za science fiction? Utasemaje? Nikikwambia hakuna haja ya ku reinvert the wheel wakati maswala tunayobishana hapa watu wameshabishana kwa maelfu ya miaka, utasemaje?

Si bora hata mimi ninayesoma na kujua the classic arguments za haya maswala, kuna wajomba wajomba wanakuja hapa hata spellings za kiswahili matatizo.Hayo huoni, unaona kwamba sina originality.

Kama your main problem ni kwamba sina originality I am pleased, kwa sababu bila originality nawa stop hawa theists, hata sihitaji originality, nahitaji kujua main issues tu.

Wewe unayetilia mkazo originality sana una kitu gani original? Kumshambulia mtu kwa kitu ambacho hajatamba nacho siyo kitu original kabisa.

Sayansi si dini, na wala siiabudu, ndiyo maana natilia mkazo uchunguzi binafsi na verification.Hata ningekuwa na mchango katika sayansi nisingekuambia, kwa sababu kwamgu mimi privacy ni muhimu na sitaki ku compromise privacy yangu.

Wewe unayenishambulia mimi nisiye na mchango wowote katika sayansi, una mchango gani katika kitu gani?

Dead White men? Kati ya mimi ninayequote scientific work ya western world kwa sababu yetu haikuwa documented, na wewe mwenye avatar ya a fat white man, nani anahusudu white people?

Baniani mbaya, kiatu chake dawa, hapo hapo unatukana watu weupe, hapo hapo unatumia teknolojia yao kuingia kwenye internet na kupost hapa JF.

Acha kuwa shallow.

Kama kweli umemuelewa vyema alichonukuliwa Stephen Hawking, usingeanza kumanipulate debate kwa ku-throw around popular, well-worn arguments zako, kwani level ya debate inayotakiwa haiuhusu ushabiki wa kuikandia Dini mbele ya Sayansi kama unavyofikiri. Its more subtle and profound than the simple listing of purported strengths of one against the other, name-calling, quoting the Quran, challenging everyone to "prove" God's existence and other cheap thrills & stunts.

Quality of arguments ulizokuja nazo humu ni little more than average, everyday stuff mtu yoyote anayejua Kiingereza vizuri anaweza kusoma kwenye Internet. Lakini kwa vile you're so doggone arrogant and stubborn, uwanja ni wako mzee.

 

[Kiranga]

Kama kweli umemuelewa vyema alichonukuliwa Stephen Hawking, usingeanza kumanipulate debate kwa ku-throw around popular, well-worn arguments zako, kwani level ya debate inayotakiwa haiuhusu ushabiki wa kuikandia Dini mbele ya Sayansi kama unavyofikiri. Its more subtle and profound than the simple listing of purported strengths of one against the other, name-calling, quoting the Quran, challenging everyone to "prove" God's existence and other cheap thrills & stunts.

Quality of arguments ulizokuja nazo humu ni little more than average, everyday stuff mtu yoyote anayejua Kiingereza vizuri anaweza kusoma kwenye Internet. Lakini kwa vile you're so doggone arrogant and stubborn, uwanja ni wako mzee.

Nimesema sayansi ni zaidi ya personalities za kina Stephen Hawking, na mimi sijaja hapa kuelezea alichosema Stephen Hawking ni nini.Ukifuatilia mjadala nimeanza kuchangia kwa kujibu swali la Abdulhalim kwamba "Sayansi imeishinda nini dini". Kwa hiyo kama Stephem Hawking ni moderate si lazima na mimi niwe moderate, kama Stephen Hawking yuko politically correct anauma na kupuliza mimi sihitaji kuuma na kupuliza, hujibizani na Stephen Hawking hapa.

Wewe si ndiye uliyekuja hapa kusisitiza swala la originality? Ukasema sina originality? Sasa mbona unataka niwe copy paste wa Stephen Hawking? Unataka kuleta contradictions katika maandishi yako hapa?

Mimi sijali kama arguments ni popular na well known or not, ninachojali ni kwamba ni valid au si valid? Kama ni popular na well known mbona watu hawazijibu?

Kama quality ya argument nilizonazo ni little more than average, na wewe unaweza kuona hilo, then it should be very easy kunidebunk.

Hata hujajaribu, zaidi ya kuja hapa na kukandya jumlajumla kama mtu asiyejua lolote lakini anataka kujikweza.

Twende toe to toe hapa, onyesha better arguments zako, onyesha original arguments zako tuone basi. Unaweza kuelimisha jumuiya.

Sio kutoa kandya za jumla jumla zisizo kichw wala miguu.

Kuna mjamaa mmoja huko Roma alikuwa anatafuta kuwa maarufu, akawa anatafuta njia ya kutokea akawa haoni. Ikafikia wakati akaona mtu ambaye yuko kwenye habari kwa sana Roma ni Papa, akaona njia pekee ya kuwa maarufu ni kupinga na kukandya chochote atakachosema Pope, ili mradi kachagua mtu ambaye yuko most visible Rome na ana mu engage kila siku.Mwishowe jamaa akaanza kuingia katika radar za Warumi, kila Pope akisema kitu, antipope anapinga, kiwe kizuri au kibaya, kina make sense au haki make sense, yeye anapinga tu.

Kwa kandya zako za jumlajumla against "average arguments" inaonekana wewe hata hizo average well known arguments huna.

Ni anti pope tu unatafuta pa kutokea, na umeona the most outspoken kwenye hii thread ni Kiranga, kwa hiyo kama unataka visibility unamshambulia Kiranga.

Karibu, lakini leta valid arguments.Sio kandya za jumlajumla, wewe utakuwa even worse than me unayesema nina average arguments zilizo well known.

Wanasema "the money you don't have is a treasure" hata kama ni shilingi tu. Na arguments ambazo huna majibu yake kamwe huwezi kuziita average, hata kama ni well known na "average" kivipi. Huna jibu huna jibu tu, huwezi ku prove kuwepo kwa mungu huwezi kuprove tu.

Na narudia tena kwamba imani ya this personal god ni kamba tu, na wala huwezi kuprove kwamba mungu yupo. Sijaona hii proof.

Na usiconfuise confidence inayoenda na zero tolerance ukaiita arrogance.Nchi zetu maskini zinahitaji sana hii attitude, kwa sababu hata umasikini wetu unatokana na imani za ajabu ajabu.

Watu wanakufa migodini kwa sababu hatuna controls na standards, rais anasema "Kazi ya mungu"

Watu wanajua serikali inabadhiri mali ya umma lakini hawawezi kuihold responsible, washafundishwa na dini tangu watoto kwamba waheshimu authority, na mungu ndiye aliyeweka authority. Tunahitaji more zero tolerant atheists tutiane adabu, bila ya kuondoa uongo wa kumsingizia mungu mambo tusiyoyajua, au uzembe wetu, hatuwezi kuendelea kamwe.

Na watu kama wewe ambao hawawezi kuchukua tough talk from some of us, mliozoea kila kitu kiwe sugar coated kiasi kwamba mtu akisema ukweli bila kuu sugar coat mnamuona arrogant mnaturuidisha nyuma kimaendeleo tu.

 

[ngoshwe]

Nimekwambia sayansi si mtu, ni arguments na concepts.

- Kwa hiyo na dini pia si mtu, kanisa, msikiti wala dhehebu na Mungu pia si hivyo unamvyomfikiria kichwani mwako. Uelewe pia unapoeleza hoja zako ukisimamia kwa "theories" za wenzio (wafu), hakuna anayeweza kukutofautisha wewe na huyo aliyebuni na kusambaza hiyo "theory". Kwa huyo unayemsimamia itikadi zake, wengine watakuona ndio kama "GURU" au "MUNGU" wako kwa maana ya dini uifuatayo.

Nimekwambia articulate unachotaka kusema, alichoandika Einstein kinaweza kutafsiriwa in a thousand different ways, nipe swali kwa maneno yako, unaweza?

- Nachotaka kukueleza ni kuwa hata hao unaosema wana sayansi maarufu, walikuwa na dini zao na kamwe huwezi kusema "Sayansi ni bora" kuliko dini. Kipimo cha hitimisho hilo kitadhihirisha ukomo wa upeo wako wa kuwaza na kuwazua kupitia akili yako binafsi kwani unatumia theories kuthibitisha vitu ambavyo unadai ni "consistency". Kwa kurejea wafu kama akina Newton, kujenga hoja zako unaonyesha pia jinsi gani unasivyoweza kutushawishi sayansi ni zaidi ya dini, kwani kama kanuni za kisayansi zinasimamia pia histori za kale, hata dini nayo hivyo hivyo hasa kwa mafundisho ya manabii nk ambao wengi wetu hatujapata kuwaona.

Leo hii huwezi kubishana na mtu eti Musa hakuweza kutenganisha bahari kwa fimbo ili wanawaislael wapite,lakini ukataka tukuamini kuwa Marehemu fulani mwana sayansi aliweza kuthibitisha dunia ni duara na au uwepo wa sayari nyingine zaidi ya dunia. Kama hivyo unavyoona wewe wengine hawawezi kuviona, basi usifikie katika hitimisho kusema kuwa vile unavyweza kuviona wewe ni zaidi ya vile wanavyoona wengine.

Kati yangu ninayeandika mambo kwa maneno yangu na wewe unayeleta copy paste bila kujua ku articulate issues mwenyewe nani kakosa "self reasoning"?

- Sijui kama hayo nawe yamekutoka kichwani kwako mwenyewe kama si kutafsiri yale uliyosoma kwenye google!. Nimekuletea hiyo unayoita copy & paste ili uone unavyopingana na akili yako mwenyewe na uweze pia kujifunza kuwa hata hao wanaoitwa wanasayansi nguli walikuwa wakiamini katika dini zao. Dini si lazima iwe ya kuamini katika uwepo wa "Mungu yupo". Hata ukiamimi kuwa Mungu hayupo, hiyo nayo ni dini yako, hivyo huwezi kutofautisha dini na sayansi kwa kusema kuwa kwa kuwa sayansi inazingatia uchunguzi, basi sayansi ni zaidi ya dini bila kuona uwepo wa sayansi umetokana na uwepo wa wanadamu na dini kwanza na kuwa dini kama ilivyo sayansi ni kitu "progressive" haina mlengo mmoja kwa maana ya "religions na sio "religion" kama unavyofikiri na kutoa hoja zako!.

 

[Nyaralego]

Obviously you have less than half a mind, otherwise you could have realized the shortcomings of your assertions. Refrain from insulting me. Name calling is not going to get you an answer.

Nimeuliza hapo juu mtoe proof ya existence ya mungu, mmeshindwa.

Nimeeleza paradox ya complexity na kama kuna mtu anaweza kuondoa hii double standard, mmeshindwa.

Nimerudia countless times classic arguments against god, including the clash between free will and god's perfect knowledge, hakuna mtu hata mmoja aliyenijibu kikamilifu.

Kufikiria kwamba kuna hell baada ya maisha haya ndiyo hell ya kweli.

Wacha matusi. Since we are debating, i can presume that you too have half a mind.

 

[Kiranga]

- Kwa hiyo na dini pia si mtu, kanisa, msikiti wala dhehebu na Mungu pia si hivyo unamvyomfikiria kichwani mwako. Uelewe pia unapoeleza hoja zako ukisimamia kwa "theories" za wenzio (wafu), hakuna anayeweza kukutofautisha wewe na huyo aliyebuni na kusambaza hiyo "theory". Kwa huyo unayemsimamia itikadi zake, wengine watakuona ndio kama "GURU" au "MUNGU" wako kwa maana ya dini uifuatayo.

Narudia, sayansi ni hoja, si mtu, mbona mgumu wa kuelewa? Unafikiri kwa sababu huko kwenu kwenye dini mna mtindo wa kuabudu personalities hata kwenye sayansi nako ni hivyo hivyo? Sayansi ni collaborative effort, inajua kwamba humans are fallible, kwa hiyo ukinisikia ninam quote Einstein, angalia idea, usiangalie personality. Huwezi kuangalia kitu bila kuwa na nyege ya kuabudu na kua associate watu na miungu na ma guru?

- Nachotaka kukueleza ni kuwa hata hao unaosema wana sayansi maarufu, walikuwa na dini zao na kamwe huwezi kusema "Sayansi ni bora" kuliko dini. Kipimo cha hitimisho hilo kitadhihirisha ukomo wa upeo wako wa kuwaza na kuwazua kupitia akili yako binafsi kwani unatumia theories kuthibitisha vitu ambavyo unadai ni "consistency". Kwa kurejea wafu kama akina Newton, kujenga hoja zako unaonyesha pia jinsi gani unasivyoweza kutushawishi sayansi ni zaidi ya dini, kwani kama kanuni za kisayansi zinasimamia pia histori za kale, hata dini nayo hivyo hivyo hasa kwa mafundisho ya manabii nk ambao wengi wetu hatujapata kuwaona.

Nakwambia tena, sayansi ni hoja, si mtu. Wakina Rutherford walikuwa wanavumbua the structure of the atom huku wanaimba "Onwards Christian soldiers" lakini mimi siwi impressed na hili, kwa sababu focus yangu haiko katika personalities, kwa sababu nikitaka kuwa impressed na personalities nitakuwa confused, kuna wanasayansi waislam, wengine wakristo, wengine ma buddhist wengine hawana imani kama mimi, sasa nikisema nifanye maamuzi kwa kuangalia imani zao personally nitamuangalia yupi na nimuache yupi? Ndiyo maana nasema I am more interested in ideas than personalities.

Wanasayansi prominent walikuwa theists? Fine, nimeuliza hapa kama kuna mtu anaweza ku prove uwepo wa mungu, hawa watu presumably walikuwa na akili sana ndiyo maana wakawa wanasayansi prominent, wapi wameweza ku prove kuwepo kwa mungu? Wapi wameweza kuonyesha kwamba hizi dini ni za kweli?

Wewe hata kuandika kiswahili tabu, halafu unataka kubishana falsafa ya dini sasa uanposema "kujenga hoja zako unaonyesha pia jinsi gani unasivyoweza kutushawishi" unasivyoweza ndiyo kitu gani? I mean this is not even english ambayo utasema lugha ya mkoloni? Hivi wewe kweli una intelligence ya kuweza kuelewa the inner meanings of these "average" arguments? Can anyone blame me for bringing "average" argumnents up in here if this is my opposition.

Sioni point yako ya kusema "kwa kurejea wafu kama kina Newton" ni nini. Katika upungufu wako unafikiria personalities, ndiyo maana wanasema small minds discuss personalities, great minds discuss ideas.Mimi ninapodiscuss ideas za Newton naona bado zinaishi na ziko valid, basically all terrestrial motion that does not approach relativistic speeds are still guided by Newtons laws of motion, kwa hiyo mimi naona Newton kafa lakini ideas zake zinaishi kwa sababu ziko valid. Wewe katika arrogant ignorance yako unaona namuinvoke dead man. Wewe unayeishi umechangia idea gani muhimu duniani?

Yaani ninapokusoma naona incoherency tu, hata sioni unataka ku develop argument gani? So what dini imekuwa tangu zamani za kale, swali langu si dini imeanza lini, swali langu ni juu ya validity ya dini, nimesema dini imejengwa katika uongo usioruhusu inquiry, nimesema mungu ni fix, jibu hoja hizi si unarukaruka toka tawi moja mpaka jingine katika issues zisizohusika na argument kama some jungle chimp.

Leo hii huwezi kubishana na mtu eti Musa hakuweza kutenganisha bahari kwa fimbo ili wanawaislael wapite,lakini ukataka tukuamini kuwa Marehemu fulani mwana sayansi aliweza kuthibitisha dunia ni duara na au uwepo wa sayari nyingine zaidi ya dunia. Kama hivyo unavyoona wewe wengine hawawezi kuviona, basi usifikie katika hitimisho kusema kuwa vile unavyweza kuviona wewe ni zaidi ya vile wanavyoona wengine.

Kwa hiyo unataka niamini kwamba Musa alitenganisha bahari ya Sham lakini huamini kwamba dunia ni duara au kuna sayari nyingine zaidi ya dunia.

Jamani mnamsikia huyu joker? Do you see what I am up against? Yaani imbeciles wa aina hii tofauti yao na watu wa stone age ni ndogo sana.

- Sijui kama hayo nawe yamekutoka kichwani kwako mwenyewe kama si kutafsiri yale uliyosoma kwenye google!. Nimekuletea hiyo unayoita copy & paste ili uone unavyopingana na akili yako mwenyewe na uweze pia kujifunza kuwa hata hao wanaoitwa wanasayansi nguli walikuwa wakiamini katika dini zao. Dini si lazima iwe ya kuamini katika uwepo wa "Mungu yupo". Hata ukiamimi kuwa Mungu hayupo, hiyo nayo ni dini yako, hivyo huwezi kutofautisha dini na sayansi kwa kusema kuwa kwa kuwa sayansi inazingatia uchunguzi, basi sayansi ni zaidi ya dini bila kuona uwepo wa sayansi umetokana na uwepo wa wanadamu na dini kwanza na kuwa dini kama ilivyo sayansi ni kitu "progressive" haina mlengo mmoja kwa maana ya "religions na sio "religion" kama unavyofikiri na kutoa hoja zako!.

Nilishasema mwanzo kwamba there is little that is new in this world, Kina Mpemba wamegundua Mpemba effect ambayo ilikuwa haijulikani katika modern science, watu wakaja kufungua mibuku ya kina Aristotle huko wakakuta kina Aristotle walishaandika hiyo Mpemba effect thousands of years ago.Watu wamegundua vitu katika quantum physics wakakuta kumbe wahindi washaviandika katika mitabu yao ya Veda miaka elfu kibao iliyopita.Kama nilivyosema mwanzo, nafikiri originality is overhyped, lakini nimekuomba unipe maswala kwa maneno yako mwenyewe, unakusudia nini kwa kutoa hiyo essay, kwa sababu inaweza kutafsiriwa kwa aina 1000 na zaidi.

Ukiwa huamini huwezi kuwa unafuata dini, kwa sababu dini inataka uwe na imani.

Hapo pengine una rant "religions" sijui "religion" uko incoherent kama kawaida yako, siwezi hata kujidai nakuelewa.

 

[Kiranga]

Wacha matusi. Since we are debating, i can presume that you too have half a mind.

Wewe hata kutumia JF tu hujui, huna hata half a half a mind inaonekana.

 

[Hukumuzuku]

Nimesema sayansi ni zaidi ya personalities za kina Stephen Hawking, na mimi sijaja hapa kuelezea alichosema Stephen Hawking ni nini.Ukifuatilia mjadala nimeanza kuchangia kwa kujibu swali la Abdulhalim kwamba "Sayansi imeishinda nini dini". Kwa hiyo kama Stephem Hawking ni moderate si lazima na mimi niwe moderate, kama Stephen Hawking yuko politically correct anauma na kupuliza mimi sihitaji kuuma na kupuliza, hujibizani na Stephen Hawking hapa.

Wewe si ndiye uliyekuja hapa kusisitiza swala la originality? Ukasema sina originality? Sasa mbona unataka niwe copy paste wa Stephen Hawking? Unataka kuleta contradictions katika maandishi yako hapa?

Mimi sijali kama arguments ni popular na well known or not, ninachojali ni kwamba ni valid au si valid? Kama ni popular na well known mbona watu hawazijibu?

Kama quality ya argument nilizonazo ni little more than average, na wewe unaweza kuona hilo, then it should be very easy kunidebunk.

Hata hujajaribu, zaidi ya kuja hapa na kukandya jumlajumla kama mtu asiyejua lolote lakini anataka kujikweza.

Twende toe to toe hapa, onyesha better arguments zako, onyesha original arguments zako tuone basi. Unaweza kuelimisha jumuiya.

Sio kutoa kandya za jumla jumla zisizo kichw wala miguu.

Kuna mjamaa mmoja huko Roma alikuwa anatafuta kuwa maarufu, akawa anatafuta njia ya kutokea akawa haoni. Ikafikia wakati akaona mtu ambaye yuko kwenye habari kwa sana Roma ni Papa, akaona njia pekee ya kuwa maarufu ni kupinga na kukandya chochote atakachosema Pope, ili mradi kachagua mtu ambaye yuko most visible Rome na ana mu engage kila siku.Mwishowe jamaa akaanza kuingia katika radar za Warumi, kila Pope akisema kitu, antipope anapinga, kiwe kizuri au kibaya, kina make sense au haki make sense, yeye anapinga tu.

Kwa kandya zako za jumlajumla against "average arguments" inaonekana wewe hata hizo average well known arguments huna.

Ni anti pope tu unatafuta pa kutokea, na umeona the most outspoken kwenye hii thread ni Kiranga, kwa hiyo kama unataka visibility unamshambulia Kiranga.

Karibu, lakini leta valid arguments.Sio kandya za jumlajumla, wewe utakuwa even worse than me unayesema nina average arguments zilizo well known.

Wanasema "the money you don't have is a treasure" hata kama ni shilingi tu. Na arguments ambazo huna majibu yake kamwe huwezi kuziita average, hata kama ni well known na "average" kivipi. Huna jibu huna jibu tu, huwezi ku prove kuwepo kwa mungu huwezi kuprove tu.

Na narudia tena kwamba imani ya this personal god ni kamba tu, na wala huwezi kuprove kwamba mungu yupo. Sijaona hii proof.

Na usiconfuise confidence inayoenda na zero tolerance ukaiita arrogance.Nchi zetu maskini zinahitaji sana hii attitude, kwa sababu hata umasikini wetu unatokana na imani za ajabu ajabu.

Watu wanakufa migodini kwa sababu hatuna controls na standards, rais anasema "Kazi ya mungu"

Watu wanajua serikali inabadhiri mali ya umma lakini hawawezi kuihold responsible, washafundishwa na dini tangu watoto kwamba waheshimu authority, na mungu ndiye aliyeweka authority. Tunahitaji more zero tolerant atheists tutiane adabu, bila ya kuondoa uongo wa kumsingizia mungu mambo tusiyoyajua, au uzembe wetu, hatuwezi kuendelea kamwe.

Na watu kama wewe ambao hawawezi kuchukua tough talk from some of us, mliozoea kila kitu kiwe sugar coated kiasi kwamba mtu akisema ukweli bila kuu sugar coat mnamuona arrogant mnaturuidisha nyuma kimaendeleo tu.

Don't swallow everything you're told by Scientists and so-called Rationalists. Huyo Stephen Hawkings unamwabudu, fani yake ni mostly pure theory derived from "abstract mathematical models" and other fancy-sounding "scientific" mumbo-jumbo: in fact hiyo "vast universe" anayodai imo kichwani kwake tu na kwenye vitabu ambavyo huwezi ukasoma sentensi mbili ukaelewa. Kalaga baho!

 

[Kiranga]

Don't swallow everything you're told by Scientists and so-called Rationalists. Huyo Stephen Hawkings unamwabudu, fani yake ni mostly pure theory derived from "abstract mathematical models" and other fancy-sounding "scientific" mumbo-jumbo: in fact hiyo "vast universe" anayodai imo kichwani kwake tu na kwenye vitabu ambavyo huwezi ukasoma sentensi mbili ukaelewa. Kalaga baho!

Nani kakwambia nina swallow kila kitu ninachoambiwa na scientists? Nimesema wapi? In fact kama unasoma posts zangu utaona nimesema hapo juu kwamba science ina politics kibao, kwa hiyo tell me something I don't already know.

Nani kakwambia Stephen Hawking namwabudu? Hivi nimemtaja mara ngapi katika posts zangu? Napata mashaka kama unasoma posts zangu, maana ungesoma ungejua sifagilii cults of personalities, nimesema time and time again kwamba I am intrigued by ideas and not personalities. Unanirejesha tena kwenye msemo wa "small minds discuss people, great minds discuss ideas". Hizo abstract mathematical models ndizo zinazotoa ma GPS, Na ma computer, ukileta abstract mathematical model halafu ukaonyesha validity yake wala sitakupinga, ukileta an abstract model ambayo haina consistency kama mungu, ni lazima niipinge na kutaka maelezo.

Nataka unionyeshe wapi nimesema "vast universe ipo kichwani kwake tu"

Au unanichanganya na mtu mwingine? Au unanijazia maneno yasiyo yangu mdomoni mwangu kwa kuwa huna point zaidi ya kuja na rants zilizojaa kushindwa kujieleza?

Hebu nionyeshe hiyo sehemu, ukishindwa unanipa haki ya kukuita muongo.

 

[Abdulhalim]

Kusema "religion haina uchunguzi" si sawa na kusema kama ulivyosema wewe nimesema kwamba "Umekiri kwamba sio jukumu la religion kufanya uchunguzi"

Tunaweza naweza kusema "Tanzania haina haki, sababu ina ufisadi" lakini hii haimaanishi kwamba nasema "Tanzania haina jukumu la kuwa na haki"

.

Wewe bana unarukaruka tu kama mbayuwayu na kujaribu kukwepesha kwepesha kwa maneno marefu
yasiyo na kichwa wala miguu..au unataka nikurudishe tena kwene post ambapo umesema 'sijasema
kazi ya religion ni kufanya uchunguzi'? NO , U will not consume my time this time. I am tired of ur toothless back and forth stupid argumentation.


Kusema 'religion haina uchunguzi' is enough for me kuwa the next statement kwenye any logical
argument would be that religion haiwezi kutumika kama scale ya kulinganisha na kitu kingine
chochote kwa kutumia criterion ya UCHUNGUZI. The argument can't be simpler and clearer than
that.

 

[Abdulhalim]

Religions zote karibu zina tabia moja ya kuwa two faced, on the one hand zinajifanya kuwa ziko founded on reason, on the other zinakataza uchunguzi. Ndiyo maana nikakwambia religion(s) ina contradiction kwa sababu faith na reason haviendani.

Sijacontest mambo ya reason sijui, tabia za dini, sijui two-faced. Nadhani unataka kumjibu kila mtu na unasahau na-contest vitu gani. Hoja yangu kwene mada ni rahisi tu, nimeuliza science ina ishinda religion ktk nini? Ukajibu uchunguzi na exchanges zikaendelea kuanzia hapo.Sijaongeza kitu kingine. Ndio maana nashawishika huwa unakurupukia kujibu posts bila kujua trend ya exchanges...and this is really annoying and time-wasting.

 

[Kiranga]

Wewe bana unarukaruka tu kama mbayuwayu na kujaribu kukwepesha kwepesha kwa maneno marefu
yasiyo na kichwa wala miguu..au unataka nikurudishe tena kwene post ambapo umesema 'sijasema
kazi ya religion ni kufanya uchunguzi'? NO , U will not consume my time this time. I am tired of ur toothless back and forth stupid argumentation.


Kusema 'religion haina uchunguzi' is enough for me kuwa the next statement kwenye any logical
argument would be that religion haiwezi kutumika kama scale ya kulinganisha na kitu kingine
chochote kwa kutumia criterion ya UCHUNGUZI. The argument can't be simpler and clearer than
that.

Tatizo umakini mdogo,

Hata ukinirudisha kwenye hiyo post unayosema nimesema "sijasema kazi ya religion ni kufanya uchunguzi" kusema hivyo si kukiri kwamba "si jukumu la religion kufanya uchunguzi" hivi ni vitu viwili tofauti, umakini mdogo.

Halafu zaidi ya hapo, nikisema kwamba "sijasema kazi ya religion ni kufanya uchunguzi" haimaanishi kwamba "nimesema kwamba kazi ya religion ni kufanya uchunguzi".

Kusema "religion haina uchunguzi" kunaweza kumaanisha kwamba religion ina purport kuwa na uchunguzi lakini ina lack uchunguzi, in which case yardstick ya uchunguzi inaweza kutumika kuipima religion kama inatimiza inachodai au haitimizi.

Zaidi, situmii religion kama scala kama unavyodai hapo juu, huwezi kutumia kipimwa kama scale, religion na science vyote ni vipimwa, kwa hiyo haviwezi kutumika kama scale, kinachotumika kama scale hapa ni reason in the form of uchunguzi.Kwa hiyo ukianza kuandika proposition za religion kama scale nakushangaa, unakuwa kama unataka kuwapima urefu watu wawili ujue nani mrefu zaidi, una mtu wa kwanza, una mtu wa pili halafu una measuring tape, halafu unataka kumchukua mtu wa kwanza ili umtumie kama kipimo.

Utashangaza ulimwengu!

 

[Kiranga]

Sijacontest mambo ya reason sijui, tabia za dini, sijui two-faced. Nadhani unataka kumjibu kila mtu na unasahau na-contest vitu gani. Hoja yangu kwene mada ni rahisi tu, nimeuliza science ina ishinda religion ktk nini? Ukajibu uchunguzi na exchanges zikaendelea kuanzia hapo.Sijaongeza kitu kingine. Ndio maana nashawishika huwa unakurupukia kujibu posts bila kujua trend ya exchanges...and this is really annoying and time-wasting.

Sasa tatizo lako nini kama ushajibiwa, hayo mengine kama ni ya wengine waachie wenyewe. Na evidently it cannot be that much of a time wasting enterprise, unaendelea kujibu.

Either that or you like to waste your time.