Dismiss Notice
You are browsing this site as a guest. It takes 2 minutes to CREATE AN ACCOUNT and less than 1 minute to LOGIN

Spleen

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Lugha' started by Roulette, Jun 17, 2012.

  1. Roulette

    Roulette JF-Expert Member

    #1
    Jun 17, 2012
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Messages: 5,618
    Likes Received: 6
    Trophy Points: 0
    when low skies weightier than a coffin-lid
    cast on the moaning soul their weary blight,
    and from the whole horizon's murky grid
    its grey light drips more dismal than the night;

    when earth's a dungeon damp whose chill appals,
    in which - a fluttering bat - my Hope, alone
    buffets with timid wing the mouldering walls
    and beats her head against the dome of stone;

    when close as prison-bars, from overhead,
    the clouds let fall the curtain of the rains,
    and voiceless hordes of spiders come, to spread
    their infamous cobwebs through our darkened brains,

    explosively the bells begin to ring,
    hurling their frightful clangour toward the sky,
    as homeless spirits lost and wandering
    might raise their indefatigable cry;

    and ancient hearses through my soul advance
    muffled and slow; my Hope, now pitiful,
    weeps her defeat, and conquering Anguish plants
    his great black banner on my cowering skull.

    - Baudelaire, Les Fleurs du Mal
    English translation by Lewis Piaget Shanks, Flowers of Evil

    [​IMG]
    Painting: Anguish by Archan Nair
     
  2. Azimio Jipya

    Azimio Jipya JF-Expert Member

    #2
    Jun 17, 2012
    Joined: Nov 27, 2007
    Messages: 3,369
    Likes Received: 8
    Trophy Points: 135
    Roulette, Somehow I real found something so nice creatively constructed and good on reading this ...

    Anyway Why did you call this poem SPLEEN ...?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 4, 2016
  3. Roulette

    Roulette JF-Expert Member

    #3
    Jun 17, 2012
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Messages: 5,618
    Likes Received: 6
    Trophy Points: 0
    It's not mine AJ, it's Baudelaire's. He wrote four spleens (he used this englis word, probably to confuse his french audience), all in his book LES FLEURS DU MAL. I love this one today.
    †ђξ strong sadness and depressiVe feeling herein expressed gave birth to a french poetic style called 'spleen baudelairien' of which you can find a softer version in Verlaine's 'il pleure dans mon coeur' (it's crying in ♏y heart).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 4, 2016
  4. Azimio Jipya

    Azimio Jipya JF-Expert Member

    #4
    Jun 17, 2012
    Joined: Nov 27, 2007
    Messages: 3,369
    Likes Received: 8
    Trophy Points: 135
    You know all the way though my school I never studied languages neither music ... !

    BUT recently I found deep kind of Beauty in Poems and am keen to follow the art of how things are written , message coded in literatures and in music ... I found it very soothing!!

    Of course I know what you wrote is called Poem .... I know poem should have some letter ending being common ....
    ... I know that in the poem there must be a specific message ... I know it must have some art of being finer etc

    In this case

    Would you say this is one of the ease Poem?

    ... I didn't see the common letters at the end ...some yes but not all! Lol

    I feel lots of emotions attached ... what did the author wanted us to extract ? (We should always express our feelings and emotions??? )

    I have never been in this kind of discussion before ...I hope am communicating with you so poetical .. is it? Teh teh!!
     
  5. Roulette

    Roulette JF-Expert Member

    #5
    Jun 17, 2012
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Messages: 5,618
    Likes Received: 6
    Trophy Points: 0
    When you look at †ђξ last sound of †ђξ verse (not letter but sound), you can see that they rhyme in ABAB manner, which means that for every sequence of 4 lines, †ђξ first and third line sound †ђξ same at †ђξ end (let's call it †ђξ A sound) and †ђξ second and fourth line (or verse) sound †ђξ same too (sound B). There are other ways to make rhymes. When I get to ♏y laptop I will give you a link to a thread where I mentioned these basic rules.
    Remember, †ђξ original poem was in classical french and had to be translated in modern English, an exercise that partially twisted †ђξ original message.
    I don't know if we should always express our emotions but when we need to,†ђξ best way to express them is probably through art (any form). How do you express yours?
     
  6. The Boss

    The Boss JF-Expert Member

    #6
    Jun 17, 2012
    Joined: Aug 18, 2009
    Messages: 36,064
    Likes Received: 14,310
    Trophy Points: 280
    ..................
     
  7. Azimio Jipya

    Azimio Jipya JF-Expert Member

    #7
    Jun 17, 2012
    Joined: Nov 27, 2007
    Messages: 3,369
    Likes Received: 8
    Trophy Points: 135
    I am happy to know that the last constants in the poems line, must not be just a letter, even "sounds" can do !! Lol!! I call this an important personal discovery of this year !! BUT i have stretched my eyes and ears to here the "sound" but in vain ... I opt to wait for a link!!

    Now this is art, in music we have certain patten and then it complete and then repeats again to make a circle. In science also we have a lot of these pattens too, electrons forming elements, how flowers and seeds are arranged in its particular fruits, particular species having constants legs, wings etc ...

    You see its art and very beautiful ..the way nature/creator makes things manifest .... and so am happy to discover this in poems too ... this time "sounds" ...ha hah hah!! I will tell this to my colleague and I know some of them will resist to accept this, in the beginning at lest ...!!

    Don't laugh!! Did you note how I wrote this Message! Very poetic ...? Three verses, each with three lines!! Is this how you call it? of course I didn't put sounds ... am waiting for a link!!!

    You asked how I express my emotions ... ? Just what am doing here ... learning new Ideas :thinking:!!
     
  8. Roulette

    Roulette JF-Expert Member

    #8
    Jun 18, 2012
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Messages: 5,618
    Likes Received: 6
    Trophy Points: 0
    Bipi Boss? No comment kabisa?
     
  9. Roulette

    Roulette JF-Expert Member

    #9
    Jun 18, 2012
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Messages: 5,618
    Likes Received: 6
    Trophy Points: 0
    In vain? what do you mean? Red this aloud and find the pattern:
    when low skies weightier than a coffin-lid (A)
    cast on the moaning soul their weary blight, (B)
    and from the whole horizon's murky grid (A)
    its grey light drips more dismal than the night;(B)


    I really can't believe you discover rhymes for the first time today! Herewith the link: http://www.jamiiforums.com/jukwaa-la-lugha/183992-types-of-poems.html

    Well, learning is good, but I think you have to find a way to express your emotions. Learning is different from expressing emotions, isnt it?
    [/QUOTE]
     
  10. Mentor

    Mentor JF-Expert Member

    #10
    Jun 18, 2012
    Joined: Oct 14, 2008
    Messages: 16,589
    Likes Received: 3,830
    Trophy Points: 280
    Hehe..its been long since i read a poem...well like since last year May...someone once said, "Whoever is touched by love becomes a poet"...and by then i really enjoyed expressing my emotions through poems..nowadays...i rarely express them..i can not seem to sit down and write even a line..nor even appreciate a poem...this one specifically jus showed me that am getting worse.
    Anyway, hope to pick my wits sometime soon...
    Azimio Jipya, expressing your emotions through poems is so nice because among many reasons, you get to forget the actual situation as a problem bt jus an opportunity to make a nice poem! heheh..keep learning..
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 4, 2016
  11. Roulette

    Roulette JF-Expert Member

    #11
    Jun 19, 2012
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Messages: 5,618
    Likes Received: 6
    Trophy Points: 0
    Should we read that you are not touched by love nowadays?
     
  12. Azimio Jipya

    Azimio Jipya JF-Expert Member

    #12
    Jun 19, 2012
    Joined: Nov 27, 2007
    Messages: 3,369
    Likes Received: 8
    Trophy Points: 135
    [/QUOTE]

    The problem here wasn't to realize the sounds, but rather they ware interchanging and I tough that isnt constant! Of course that was from what I knew about general poems then. But this was cleared through the link in which I came to know that there exists different types of poems and I think the one we are discussing now is EPIGRAM.

    AND as a rule epigrams should have an alternating constant of sounds or ending letters(e and s) as this example from the link!

    I wonder who is to blame,
    between the wife and the mistress,
    Coz the one carries the shame,
    because the other is so careless.

    I must admit, the epigrams with letter endings would have been much easier for me to understand rather than the one with sounds!! I knew about letters not sounds!!

    Here is my personal example!

    I believe in tough love,
    All honest Men should be at its center,
    All honest women should appreciate,
    Finally no one is to blame because all is in oder,

    Tell me how much did I score ..?

    Although I wanted it look like this, but I thought it will complicate everything ..wouldn't it?

    I believe in tough love,

    The boss is at its center, all honest Men should be at its center,

    AshaDii
    is at its center, all honest women should appreciate,

    Finally no one is to blame, because all is already in oder,

    I know you don't love complications like this ... but be honest how did I score on this one!!:sleep:. By adding the commas in between and the names who was on that debate!! Lol!!
     
  13. Azimio Jipya

    Azimio Jipya JF-Expert Member

    #13
    Jun 19, 2012
    Joined: Nov 27, 2007
    Messages: 3,369
    Likes Received: 8
    Trophy Points: 135
    Well something like dancing and singing! I know singing would have been the best ..But God!! Amnt good at all!! ll the instrument will go Off!!!

    Is listening to a good, I mean good quality music would be expressing emotions and feelings!! ?

    Do you have a friend here in JF who went to School of Music who can tell us how do music differ from the Poem and/or where they come together?
     
  14. Azimio Jipya

    Azimio Jipya JF-Expert Member

    #14
    Jun 19, 2012
    Joined: Nov 27, 2007
    Messages: 3,369
    Likes Received: 8
    Trophy Points: 135
    Mentor, I find this to be great words! Especially when you relate LOVE to poems!
    How good would it be that an discovering love again cause, I think I lost it somewhere!!

    On my perspective I thought am discovering beauty! But now I think you must help Is discovering LOVE different from discovering BEAUTY? I had this discussion with Mwali I don't know where (was it in French or Arabic class?), but I don't think if we have an agreement!

    Is this the same as BEAUTY "UREMBO" na LOVE "UPENDO" ..?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 4, 2016
  15. Azimio Jipya

    Azimio Jipya JF-Expert Member

    #15
    Jun 19, 2012
    Joined: Nov 27, 2007
    Messages: 3,369
    Likes Received: 8
    Trophy Points: 135
    I would ask the same question! But put it this way ... Are you not touched by Beauty this days?
     
  16. Roulette

    Roulette JF-Expert Member

    #16
    Jun 19, 2012
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Messages: 5,618
    Likes Received: 6
    Trophy Points: 0
    Again, it is the sound (not the final letters) that count in a poem. In poetry, You can make bite rhyme with night

    Technically, love doesn't rhyme with appreciate. As I said, it is not the vowel but the final sound. Love would rhyme with Alcove and Appreciate with retaliate. (just an example).
    When we are done with sounds vs letters, there is another thing about rhymes I would want you to know. there are poor rhymes (just one sound) and rich rhymes (two and above). making night rhyme with knight is a poor rhyme (sound "ait" in swahili) but making elections rhyme with sections constitutes a rich rhyme because we have three sounds (ec-sion-z). NOt very poetic thought, labda for social activist posters. lol

    Now, beyond rhymes there is another rule to be follower while writing poems, it is the rule of rhythm. As you can see in the Spleen from Baudelaire, each verse (line) contains exactly the same number of syllabi. it is not very obvious here because this is a translation and it was already hard enough to get rhymes, but here are some good examples: http://www.jamiiforums.com/jukwaa-la-lugha/8037-mwenziyo-unanikosha.html as you can see, the rule applies to Swahili poems too.

    This is not a lesson, it is just information sharing, so I won't rate you.:wink2:
     
  17. Roulette

    Roulette JF-Expert Member

    #17
    Jun 19, 2012
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Messages: 5,618
    Likes Received: 6
    Trophy Points: 0
    Singing is good, I think it is the most common (and maybe most diverse) way of expressing emotions. I don't have a friend but I remember that queenkami mentioned that she sings to express her faith. Ngoja aje atupe maelezo.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 4, 2016
  18. Ndahani

    Ndahani JF-Expert Member

    #18
    Jun 19, 2012
    Joined: Jun 3, 2008
    Messages: 11,561
    Likes Received: 141
    Trophy Points: 160
    Roulette, are you a language specialist? Kadri muda unavyokwenda I fall in love with arts and language. But my inclination and background don't support anything closer to that.
     
  19. Roulette

    Roulette JF-Expert Member

    #19
    Jun 19, 2012
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Messages: 5,618
    Likes Received: 6
    Trophy Points: 0
    Ndahani, I am not a language specialist. I just happen to speak French. Nadhani kadri muda unavo kwenda hata mimi nimerealise kua nahitaji kujieleza zaidi. Nikiwa bado msichana nilikua naandika sana na nikisoma tena nilicho kiandika nahisi ile "unrealistic idealism and rebellious spirit" imepotea, I have a more mature approach to things now, na inaweza kua vizuri niandike tena leo. Ila inspiration imezeeka... I need to seat for a very long time to lay rhymes... Ukipata muda soma hapa my very first poem in English: http://www.jamiiforums.com/jukwaa-la-lugha/183298-though-of-melancholy-and-homesickness.html (as you san see, hata mimi sina background)
     
  20. stroke

    stroke JF-Expert Member

    #20
    Jun 19, 2012
    Joined: Feb 17, 2012
    Messages: 9,191
    Likes Received: 2,326
    Trophy Points: 280
    Duh...sijaambulia chochote hapo...lugha ngumu jamani.....
     
Loading...