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Somo kutoka Mumbai

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Rev. Kishoka, Nov 30, 2008.

  1. Rev. Kishoka

    Rev. Kishoka JF-Expert Member

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    Nov 30, 2008
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    Ni jambo la kusikitisha kwa kilichotokea Mumbai. Pamoja na kuwa si rahisi kwa vyombo vya usalama na raia kujua ni lini watu wenye nia mbaya watafanya maovu, lakini tunaona tena umuhimu wa vyombo vya usalama na Serikali kuwa makini na wepesi wa kufanya maamuzi yanayotoa maana.

    Ndio waziri wa Usalama wa India kajiuzulu, lakini tujiulize, ilikuwaje mpaka kukawa na udhaifu wa kiutendaji uliosababisha uhalifu na ugaidi wa namna hii utokee?

    Nikisoma chapisho ya jarida la Newsweek, nakutana na taarifa ambazo zinatoa mfanano wa utendaji na utekelezaji wa kazi uliofanywa na Polisi wa India na hata wizara ya Usalama sawa na jinsi vyombo vya Usalama vya Tanzania vinavyoshughulikia uhalifu na hasa masuala ya ufisadi.

    Polisi wa India walipewa tahadhari kwa nyakati tofauti kutoka kwa raia walioona, kusikia au kuhisi uhalifu unapangwa, lakini Polisi hawa ama walipuuza, hawakuona umuhimu kufanya kazi zao bila kupewa amri au kwa mtazamo wangu mwingine, je nao walikuwa washiriki na wanufaika wa uharamia huu?

    Kuna mengine ya kushangaza kama kujua kuwa mji mkubwa kama Mumbai, hauna kikosi cha makomandoo na kuwa Waziri wa Usalama alitamka wazi hadharani kuwa kikosi cha makomandoo kilikuwa kinatoka New Dheli kwenda Mumbai na kuwapa wale Magaidi muda tosha wa kufanya udhalimu wao.

    Najiuliza tena kama ninavyojiuliza mara nyingi, je ni lini Watendaji wa Tanzania yetu watakuwa wajasiri wa kujituma kufanya kazi zao kwa mujibu wa majukumu yao na si kusubiri amri(Pro-active)?

    Kuna mengi ya kujifunza kutokana na hili la Mumbai. Naomba Mungu watendaji na wanasiasa wetu walichukulie hili kama somo na si hadithi za kijiweni na kuangalia CNN.

    Kwa mifano niliyowekea mkazo hapo chini, mtaona ni jinsi gani kilichotokea Mumbai na India kwa ujumla, knaendelea kutokea Tanzania hasa kwenye suala la Rushwa, Uhujumu na Ufisadi, ukosefu wa Uimara wa Serikali!

    Kwa wale wapambe wa viongozi, wale wapelelezi wa TAKUKURU, DPP,UWT, Wanasiasa na wananchi wote mtakaosoma ujumbe huu, tusaidiane kuanzisha hamasa ya kurekebisha kasoro zilizoko katika mfumo wetu wa vyombo vya usalama na utendaji wa vyombo hivyo na Serikali kwa ujumla.

    Yaliyopita si ndwele, bali tugange kwa yanayokuja.

    Naomba niwaachie hii nukuu kutoka Newsweek.

     
  2. S

    Son of Alaska JF-Expert Member

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    IN my opinion,and in the opinion of many,modern day terrorism is just next to impossible to nip in the bud.with the advent of sucide killers the fight against such atrocities has just become too complicated.Coordination of the various security apparatus,has now proved unworkable.when a plot is foiled its only cause someone chickened out and betrayed the cause or it could be as a result of not knowing how to use communication equipment.We tend to blame the authorities,but in reality,how do you stop someone who is ready to die
     
  3. M

    Mkandara Verified User

    #3
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    Rev. Kishoka,
    Mkuu haya ndio matokeo ya kufikiria sisi Miungu wa dunia na tutatawala miaka yote bila huruma kwa wananchi wengine..
    Sina Uhakika na chanzo cha haya yaliyotokea huko India lakini binafsi nina imani kubwa kwamba inatokana na udhalimu wa tawala zetu, Udhalimu wa kabila ama kundi fulani la watu kuwa na nguvu za kiungu dhidi ya wananchi maskini...
    Tanzania Inawezekana kabisa kutokea hasa mwamko wa kisiasa unapochachamaa kutafuta haki fulani..
    Kwa mfano Mauaji ya Bulyanhulu kama jamaa wangekuwa ni ktk makundi kuunda jimbo la Wasukuma, basi mauaji yale yangezua tatizo kubwa. Tazama mauaji ya Pemba mwaka 2000 yote haya yangeweza ku- ignite Ugaidi...lakini tumshukuru Mungu kwamba bado kabisa hatujaunda hizo tabaka kufikia hali za nchi za wenzetu.

    Binafsi ninaamini kabisa kuwa mambo mengi yanayotokea leo duniani chanzo chake ni SIASA MBAYA za uungu!..Haya majina ya Terrorists tunayakuza wenyewe badala ya kuangalia sisi wenyewe matendo yetu.. Zamani wahindi wekundu waliitwa SAVAGE people, weusi tukaitwa Niggers, wahindi wakaitwa Pakis na kadhalika lakini ilikuwa limited to certain countries under occupation, leo hii wigo la kupingana na udhalimu umepanuka zaidi na yote hii inatokana na jinsi Ubepari mpya wa uungu unavyojipanua ndani ya maisha na makazi ya wayonge!.

    Tanzania nadhani tuna hatari nyingine tofauti kabisa na hiyo ya India, ni hawa mabepari miungu watu kuja kushindana na serikali...Njia pekee kwa serikali yetu ili kuhakikisha Usalama wa wananchi wake ni kutokubali kuwepo makundi ya watu wanaojiona wao bora na Untouchables kwa kutumia nguvu ya dola...
    Haya matatizo tuliyokuwa nayo leo yote yametokana na kuachiwa baadhi ya viongozi kina Mkapa na Lowassa kujenga nguzo za udhalimu.. kujilimbikiza mali na power kama Scarface.. Ni hawa ambao huko mbeleni watatuletea matatizo kwa sababu nyuma yao kuna wafuasi na kwa urahisi sana wanaweza kutumia dini ama makabila yao kuanzisha Upinzani wa Kigaidi..
    Inasikitisha sana kwa yote yaliyokea India, lakini kwa muda mrefu sana imekuwa ikitabiriwa kutokea!..kwa hiyo sio tu kuhusiana na vyombo vya Usalama bali pia chimbuko lake limetokana na Utawala mbovu unaohimiza kuwa wapo watu maskini kwa sababu wamelaaniwa!
     
  4. Lusajo

    Lusajo JF-Expert Member

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    Nov 30, 2008
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    Ni kazi sana kuzuia mtu ambaye anataka/amekubali kufa. Lakini kitu ambacho kimeonekana ni makosa ni mapolisi na viongozi wengine kupuuzia maneno ya watu, Naona hii imetokea sehemu zote, huko India walipuuzia waliyokuwa wanaambiwa eti hakuna ushahidi wa kutosha na walipuuzia kufuatilia, na US nako waliambiwa lakini hawakuwa aggresive kufuatilia na matokeo yake waliyaona. Sasa nimefurahi kwamba Rev kawaandikia watu wanaosoma ambao ni viongozi au wapambe wao wawe macha na kutokupuuzia habari kama hizo. Kwa sababu najua unawajua polisi wetu kaka jinsi walivyo, unaweza kupeleka habari kama hiyo ukaishia kutukanwa na kufukuzwa, na sijui kama kuna kitengo maalumu cha kupiga simu au kwenda (I mean Bongo.)
     
  5. G

    Game Theory JF-Expert Member

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    Tev Kishoka

    MImi nitachukua msimamo ambao kiduch watu wataanza kusema maeno ya speculation na kadhalika lakini potelea mbali wenye kuhisi watakacho wahisi and i care less


    Anyway kabla ya kuendelea sijui unataka nikujibu on Intelligence side of the issues au the way Military ilivyoconduct the entire operation
     
  6. G

    Game Theory JF-Expert Member

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    Kama unataka operation insight ni kuwa hawa wahindi wasikutishe sana kwa sababu in my humble opinion huwezi uka tangazia dunia kuwa una SPECIAL FORCES na COMMANDO UNITES ili hali maisha ya watu wengi yamepotea namna ile


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    kwa kuanza tuu mimi si mtaalam sana wa mambo ya kijeshi picha hii hapo juua inaonyesha wazi jinsi gani huyop COMMANDO wa kihindi anayo apply gansta style shooting ambayo mara ya mwisho niliiona kwenye BBC reporting on DRCONGO...katika hostage situation kama ile huwezi ukaanza kuspray bullets for the sake of it




    issue ya pili inaonekana wazi kuwa all of their equipment seems to be quite outdated. Mfano hawa jamaa bado wana Old generation ya MP5, Shati jeusi na suruali nyeusi badala ya black overall black...

    Vile vile kuna suala la HELMET kusema ukweli ukiuliza mtu yeyote yule anyejua masuala ya kijeshi atakuambia kuwa hizo helmet ni za kizamani na na huhitaji kuwa na PHD ukajua kuwa level of protection yake ni ndogo sana

    Hizo ni Russian au czechoslovak paratrooper walizo zivaa miaka ya 60 kama hii picha inavyoponekana :

    [​IMG]

    zaidi ya hayo kwa upande wangu the only modern weapon waliokuwa nayo wale the so called INDIAN COMMANDOS ilikuwa ni SiG Sauer sharpshooter rifle. Zilizobaki zilikuwa ni Enfields! AKs, FN FALs or Insas rifles.


    Halafu ajabu nyingine ya dunia ni tangu lini Ma Commando waliokuwa kwenye active duty kama ile wakawa hawajavaa balaclavas? - naona walivaa vitambaa tuu au ndio wadhungu wanaita scarf, quite strange, actually they looked more like terrorists...


    na kama walibadili basi walibadili hii

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2008
  7. Icadon

    Icadon JF-Expert Member

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    Hehe...The Truth yuko wapi aje atuelezee kuhusu macommando wao..kwa kifupi Commandos wao naona walichemsha, ATS ndio kabisa, kuuliwa kwa head wao kunaonyesha jinsi walivyo incompetent.
     
  8. G

    Game Theory JF-Expert Member

    #8
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    [​IMG]
     
  9. G

    Game Theory JF-Expert Member

    #9
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    [​IMG]

    Pamoja na kuwashangaa Wahindi na serikali yao...hii picha imenivutia sana kwa sababu its speaks a million words. Mwanajeshi huyu wa Kihindi kama wanajeshi wetu ni: underpaid, under equipped, ever smiling, humble, worn out, selfless, innocent Indian Soldier. No Politicans, No Media Crap, No fake liberals, No nobody.

    Just him and his poor countrymen. Nadhani mnaona kwa nini nililalamika hatukuwafanyai welcoming parade wanajeshi wetu waliporudi toka Comoro...maybe serikali iliogopa tungeona kuwa hawana viatu na tungeona uchokavu wa vifaa vyao vya kazi
     
  10. Icadon

    Icadon JF-Expert Member

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    Natumaini nchi yetu itajifunza mengi kutokana na hili tukio, nakumbuka baada ya 1998 Bombing FBI walikubali kufundisha polisi na wanajeshi wetu ilikuform kikosi cha Anti Terrorism ila viongozi wetu wakapeleka marafiki zao ambao walikuwa wanakaribia kustaafu. RIP innocent victims wa hili tukio.
     
  11. Nyani Ngabu

    Nyani Ngabu Platinum Member

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    Dude don't get me started about us.....we're a joke that ain't even funny!!!
     
  12. Icadon

    Icadon JF-Expert Member

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    Ila Luis Freeh aliwapongeza Investigators wa bongo, ndio maana akasema yuko tayari kuwafundisha jamaa wawe na elite force kwa cost za walipa kodi wa US lakini sijui waliishia wapi.
     
  13. F

    Fundi Mchundo JF-Expert Member

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    [​IMG]

    Kutokana na hii ramani kutoka BBC inaelekea wasomali wanaweza kuja kuteka meli karibu kabisa na pwani yetu bila wasi wasi wowote. Hii hainipi imani kubwa juu ya uwezo wetu wa kuhimili mashambulio kama haya yaliyotokea Mumbai.
     
  14. S

    Son of Alaska JF-Expert Member

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    msimamo wangu uko palapale,whatever you do,a sucide bomber hata awe mbumbumbu,will always breach your lines.this is the fundamental truth.i believe the security in ISRAEL is bullet proof yet palestinians,hata ma housewife wanabreach security na ku bomb right in the heart of tel aviv
     
  15. Susuviri

    Susuviri JF-Expert Member

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    Rev Kishoka,
    Siku zote napenda kuchangia thread zako maana unaleta hoja za maaana. I tend to agree with Mkandara kwa sababu nadhani tunaangalia end result siyo chanzo. Kama Tanzania tungewekeza katika watu na conflict resolution ndani ya nchi yetu kiasi kile ambacho tunawekeza katika kuimarisha polisi, wanajeshi nk. basi tusingetakiwa kuwa na wasiwasi wowote. Lakini unakuta kwamba hatuna habari na wananchi tunaacha katika hali ya umaskini, dhuluma etc. Sasa tunalilia kuimarisha jeshi na polisi... son of Alaska kasema ukweli, wakiamua kujitoa muhanga hakuna tutakachoweza kufanya.
     
  16. MwalimuZawadi

    MwalimuZawadi JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu naomba niwe mbishi kwa hili. Wenyenchi si watu wa kujifunza hata kidogo. Kama ni kujifunza si lazima iwe toka Mumbai tu ni kujifunza katika mambo madogo yaliyondani ya uwezo bila Marekani na UN. Mfano ajali za barabarani zinaua watu kwa uzembe kila kukicha, na msimu huu wa sikukuu ni kama vile watu wanatolewa kafara, mbona hatujifunzi? Wenyenchi wamebaki na pri pri tu wakati sheria ziko wazi kwa vyombo vya usafiri na watumiaji wake
    gggggggggggggggggggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!
     
  17. The Invincible

    The Invincible JF-Expert Member

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    Somo la kujifunza? Never on earth! Nakubaliana kabisa nawe MwalimuZawadi.

    Kwenye matukio mazito kama haya sisi tunamkimbilia Mungu/Mola. Na hapa ndipo ilipo our weakest link: God/Allah will do something for us. Kama sio upande huo wa shilingi, basi kwenda kupiga ramli (also hope for some supernatural powers to intervene).

    We are just as good as dead brains.
     
  18. Kaa la Moto

    Kaa la Moto JF-Expert Member

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    Nina mashaka sana na vyombo vyetu vya usalama. Nikikumbuka sana lile tukio la kupiga mabomu ubalozi wa Marekani, najua bado tuna kazi kweli kweli.
    Jambo la kuwa na uhakika nalo nikwamba siku zote magaidi huwa ni wananchi wenyewe waliochoka utawala wa kinyanyasaji. Hapo ndipo naona hatari iliyoko mbele zetu wakuu
     
  19. Rev. Kishoka

    Rev. Kishoka JF-Expert Member

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    Susuviri,

    Si lazima tuangalie hili jambo kwa minajili ya udini kama wengine wanavyojaribu kulisukuma jambo hili liwe.

    Nafikiri sikueleweka jinsi nilivyolizunguimzia suala la Mumbai.

    Nimeleta somo hili kuonyesha udhaifu wa Polisi na hata Serikali kufanya kile ilichopaswa kukifanya ama kuzuia au kupunguza athari za yaliyotokea.

    Ni kweli kuna haja ya kushughulikia shina na kianzio cha matatizo ambayo hufanya watu wafikie hatua za kufanya uhalifu na ugaidi wa namna hiyo hasa pale inapokuwa ni masuala ya uonevu.

    Sasa nikurudi kwa Tanzania, labda niongelee suala la Ma-Albino (Zeruzeru) ambao kwa zaidi ya mwaka mmoja, wamekuwa wakipoteza maisha yao kwa ajili ya ushirikina. Kilio chao hakijaanza juzi, bali kimeanza awali sana, lakini Serikali yetu kama kawaida haikuona kuwa kuna tatizo au kuchukua hatua madhubuti mpaka pale tulipoanza kukoromewa na wafadhili na wahisani na dunia nzima kujua kuwa Tanzania kuna kafara za Ma-Albino.

    Hata suala la Ufisadi, iwe ni ATCL, EPA, Radar, TRL na hata Richmond, vyombo vinavyopaswa kufanya uchunguzi na kinga (prevention) vimekaa kimya kusubiri kutibu(peleka kesi mahakamani, wizi na uhujumu umeshatokea).

    Sasa nachojiuliza kwa nini hatubadilishi mtazamo wetu kwa kutumia ule usemi wa Kinga ni bora kuliko Tiba?

    Sasa kwenye Kinga, ndipo unakutana na hoja ya Mkandara aliyoilieta ya kuvalia njuga matatizo ya watu na jamii yawe ni hisia au ni kweli yanatokea. Tukiweza kuchughulikia kero na manung'uniko, si ajabu hata mtazamo wa wananchi kuhusiana na maendeleo unaweza badilika maana wataona kuna Serikali inayowajibika na hivyo nao watapaswa kuwajibika.

    Tukiendelea kuwa na Serikali iliyo "mguu pande, mwili legeza" tutaendelea kuwa na maudhi, kero na vurugu kila siku, na kama India siku moto unawaka, tutaanza kutafuta maji mtoni!
     
  20. Nyani Ngabu

    Nyani Ngabu Platinum Member

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    No amount training can prepare us to respond swiftly and adequately to such an attack if we lack the wherewithal, logistics, and the infrastructure that is necessary during emergency situations.
     
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