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Socialism vs Capitalism

Discussion in 'International Forum' started by MwanaFalsafa1, Jun 18, 2009.

  1. MwanaFalsafa1

    MwanaFalsafa1 JF-Expert Member

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    Socialism and capitalism are two very different ideologies. My question is which one is the better ideology for Africa? Can a well managed socialism government work well for the people or is still capitalism the way to go? How about social democracy which is like a hybrid form of both socialism and capitalism?
     
  2. T

    The Truth JF-Expert Member

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    Neither socialism nor capitalism (nor combination of the two) will work in Africa. The problem with Africa has little to do with ideology. It has to do with Africans themselves. I say this because socialim and capitalism (or some forms of the two) have already been tried in Africa. I didn't see them work. By work I am referring to their success.
     
  3. MwanaFalsafa1

    MwanaFalsafa1 JF-Expert Member

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    And what is it that you suggest in terms of African people? What do you think will work?
     
  4. Mwalimu

    Mwalimu JF-Expert Member

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    Capitalism and Socialism have BOTH failed so lets move on....Its about time that we broaden our minds and look beyond these two systems and come up with the best way to go. Lets pick up some good stuff from both systems and formulate a new one which is neither capitalist or socialism.
     
  5. MwanaFalsafa1

    MwanaFalsafa1 JF-Expert Member

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    Do you mean something like that?
     
  6. Mwalimu

    Mwalimu JF-Expert Member

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    Yeah something like that...thanks alot
     
  7. Chapakazi

    Chapakazi JF-Expert Member

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    social democrats ndo mfumo gani huo? Unaweza kuufafanua zaidi?

    Pili, Mkuu Mwalimu...hapa hujaji-contradict?

    Mwanafalsafa alikuwa amesema:
    Na wewe ukajibu:
    hybrid na combination sio sawa?
     
  8. Juma Contena

    Juma Contena JF-Expert Member

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    its capitalism all the way, socialisms not that is bad, but it just wont work in the long run based on the current global interpretation of it. however we are in no postion(Tanzania) at the moment to fully embrace capitalism. early results have demonstated we do not have genuine investors who aim to improve our services therefore the government should still hold to vital parts of our services and asstes.

    second the government needs to educate itself about the nature of the system its not just about running away from running the economy and only collecting taxes. it still has a role as a supervisor of the system and making sure we get the right investment to improve the society as whole, it also has to come with ways to attract investment long term investement that is. and finally i think we need to understand, capitalism work on competitive business and not just allowing things run privately sorely. sasa since we depend on imported goods at the moment and we have set ridicolous taxes at the port, i think only a few rich will dectet the market, though goods are cheap outside, most new interprenuers are demoralized by the tax set at the port. therefore reducing the competition wich would have lowered many things at the moment. at the same time those goods which are not cleared are stored at ridiculous daily charge, most people end up losing their capital. at the end of the day the same goods are taken to auction at a very cheap price than they were asking in the first place. by the way does anyone know where and when this bandari auctions occur, i bet anaenda kuuziwa patel na nduguze very cheaply. i think they need to revise their policies and understand simple economics first of creating lines of circulation that is Money.
     
  9. Natty Bongoman

    Natty Bongoman JF-Expert Member

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    Greetings,
    InI think it is time we come up with an Afrikan ideology that would be easily understood by the installing crew as well as the recipients/participants - wananchi. I believe that part of failure of either western or eastern systems of ideologies, has been not being understood well enough to be implemented and executed successfully. We should come up with an ideology progressive enough but assimilating Afrikan customs and traditions, the universal ones - and they are many.

    * Why don't we Afrikans today concede to the fact that introduction of western economy of money did take the continent captive to the west and its agencies such as IMF ??? We need to selectively return "Barter system" where feasible. It has to come to a point that we should realise that when two bordering Afrikan countries can't help one another with available food because of 'money', "international" western money, to be specific; It is time to rethink life, logic, and practicality.

    Jah bless Afrika.
     
  10. T

    The Truth JF-Expert Member

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    What works is to let other people take charge of your nations. Let Whitey take charge, let Asians take charge, let Arabs take charge then you will have a functioning society. When Africans run a country, you run it into the ground. So there is no ideology or system that will work in Africa except what I have suggested.
     
  11. MwanaFalsafa1

    MwanaFalsafa1 JF-Expert Member

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    Hahaha seems like you are holding in some passion. Anyway seems you referred to us as "you" I assume you are not African. Maybe you should just leave us and let us "run our countries to the ground". I'm sure no matter the outcome it doesn't affect you so I don't think you should worry about it.
     
  12. T

    The Truth JF-Expert Member

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    It affects me and everyone else when you start begging for help, aid and flood into other countries as refugees and economical immigrants. I wish it was that easy to just leave you and let you be but it isn't.
     
  13. MwanaFalsafa1

    MwanaFalsafa1 JF-Expert Member

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    Oh so Tanzania has begged as you call yourself "ponjoros" for help? Were you forced to help? As far as I know Tanzania doesn't have refugees flooding to other countries in fact we receives refugees from other countries. And I don't see how you are a spokesman/woman for other countries. Concerning the aid, "ponjoros" have not been forced to give aid. If, and I say if because I still don't know what a ponjoro is but if you were asked for aid you simply can refuse to give it.
     
  14. T

    The Truth JF-Expert Member

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    I wasn't referring to just Tanzania but Africa in general. But you are not correct about Tanzania not having refugee in other countries. I have seen plenty of Tanzanian refugees (especially from Zanzibar) in Britain. There are even more economic immigrants from Tanzania in other countries. Yourself might be included in the category of economic immigrant from Tanzania to America. Nobody is forced to aid Africa but I have never seen Africans refuse the aid that's given to them. Try to stand on your own two feet then maybe we won't be obligated to give you aid any more.
     
  15. MwanaFalsafa1

    MwanaFalsafa1 JF-Expert Member

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    Hahaha you were complaining about us being a burden because of aid so I told you that you are not forced to give aid. Now you are saying we never refuse aid? Again it goes back to then don't give it. I also still don't know who the ponjoro people are so I still can't know if they are among those who give us aid or if they don't live in other countries but their own, I don't know.
     
  16. T

    The Truth JF-Expert Member

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    If other people don't give you aid then you will starve to death and some of you who can escape will flood other countries as refugees and economic migrants. So people are obligated to help you.

    Ponjoro people are the ones with the majority share of wealth of your country. The upper echelon of your society so to speak. The people mostly envied and hated for their success throughout East Africa. Your eternal masters that you were born to serve and obey.
     
  17. MwanaFalsafa1

    MwanaFalsafa1 JF-Expert Member

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    And how much has India donated to us? Dude there are people starving to death in India to so what's your point? There are also millions of Indians living in other countries also and one example is Tanzania itself.


    Indians? Man I have best friends who are Indians why would I hate them? And please don't kid yourself there are a lot of Indians around the world and not all live in wealth. There are Indians in South Africa, Ethiopia, U.K, America and you are talking about us being economic refugees? In fact there a lot of poor people in India also common dude we are all aware of Mother Theressa's wok. I personally got no hate for Indians man and if you feel you are being discriminated against then I'm sorry but I aint one of the people doing that. Or well now I see why you talk the way you talk. Man I should have known.
     
  18. T

    The Truth JF-Expert Member

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    Calm down so you can put together a coherent post. Who said anything about you hating Indians? The existence of poor Indians does not negate anything I have said so far. Just like the existence of poor Americans or poor Europeans does not negate or invalidates what I posted. Indians through tax dollars they pay in western countries aid Africa. Not only that but many scientific contributions made by Indians have helped Africans.
     
  19. MwanaFalsafa1

    MwanaFalsafa1 JF-Expert Member

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    Who said I'm not calm? I am as calm as a cucumber. Man they are African's also who live in the West and pay taxes so what's your point? Man you can't compare the number of poor in America to the number of poor in India. In places like Calcutta poverty is just as bad as some places in Africa if not worse. In India itself there are a lot of classes. Some people are treated as though they are not humans. Heck some classes are not aloud to marry into another class. So poverty and the class system has forced many Indians to go else where and live their lives and hence they settled to places like Tanzania

    "Poverty Profile
    Poverty imposes an oppressive weight on India, especially in the rural areas where almost three out of four Indians and 77 percent of the Indian poor live. Although poverty has been reduced during the past four decades, it remains painfully high.

    Because of India's rapid population growth rate, even that advance, however, has not been sufficient to reduce the absolute number of poor, which increased from around 200 million in the 1950s to 312 million in 1993-94 (most recent Five Year Survey). This leaves India with the largest concentration of poor people in the world, particularly in the villages - fewer than 5,000 people - where 60 percent of all Indians live. Staggering as the overall numbers remain - 240 million rural poor and 72 million urban poor - they do not tell the full story of change. Social indicators of well-being, for instance, record a history of progress that has, like the decline of poverty itself, been steady but slow.

    Among those indicators, three illustrate this point. Infant mortality rates, as one example, fell from 146 deaths per thousand births in the 1950s to 80 at the start of this decade. Nevertheless, the Indian rate is still high and two Indian states, Orissa (124 per thousand in 1991) and Madhya Pradesh (117 per thousand in 1991), even recorded proportionally more infant deaths than the sub-Saharan average (104 per thousand in 1991). Life expectancy at birth, now twice the 30 years that was the Indian average in 1947, remains well below that of China (69 years.) Adult literacy rates for Indian males (64 percent) and for females (39 percent) in 1991 were almost identical to those for sub-Saharan Africa and far behind those in China - 96 percent for men, 85 percent for women - ten years earlier.
    "- http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/TOPICS/EXTPOVERTY/EXTPA/0,,contentMDK:20208959~isCURL:Y~menuPK:435735~pagePK:148956~piPK:216618~theSitePK:430367,00.html

    I didn't have time to cite the whole website but you get the point.
    About your scientific contribution to Africa I don't know about that. Perhaps when I get the time I will look into it.
     
  20. Steve Dii

    Steve Dii JF-Expert Member

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    The Truth, ulipotelea wapi wewe njemba?... ulienda kwenye uchaguzi kumpigia kampeni Lalchand Kishen Advan nini?! Poleni, ila mlijitahidi. Welcome back, kuna mengi umeyakosa hapa JF!
     
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