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Shroud of Turin: Real or Fake?

Discussion in 'International Forum' started by Ab-Titchaz, Oct 6, 2009.

  1. Ab-Titchaz

    Ab-Titchaz Content Manager Staff Member

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    Italian scientist reproduces Shroud of Turin


    [​IMG]

    The Turin Shroud is shown in this August 1978 file photo in negative version

    By Philip Pullella Philip Pullella

    ROME (Reuters) – An Italian scientist says he has reproduced the Shroud of Turin, a feat that he says proves definitively that the linen some Christians revere as Jesus Christ's burial cloth is a medieval fake.

    The shroud, measuring 14 feet, 4 inches by 3 feet, 7 inches bears the image, eerily reversed like a photographic negative, of a crucified man some believers say is Christ.
    "We have shown that is possible to reproduce something which has the same characteristics as the Shroud," Luigi Garlaschelli, who is due to illustrate the results at a conference on the para-normal this weekend in northern Italy, said on Monday.

    A professor of organic chemistry at the University of Pavia, Garlaschelli made available to Reuters the paper he will deliver and the accompanying comparative photographs.

    The Shroud of Turin shows the back and front of a bearded man with long hair, his arms crossed on his chest, while the entire cloth is marked by what appears to be rivulets of blood from wounds in the wrists, feet and side.

    Carbon dating tests by laboratories in Oxford, Zurich and Tucson, Arizona in 1988 caused a sensation by dating it from between 1260 and 1390. Sceptics said it was a hoax, possibly made to attract the profitable medieval pilgrimage business.

    But scientists have thus far been at a loss to explain how the image was left on the cloth.
    Garlaschelli reproduced the full-sized shroud using materials and techniques that were available in the middle ages.

    They placed a linen sheet flat over a volunteer and then rubbed it with a pigment containing traces of acid. A mask was used for the face.

    PIGMENT, BLOODSTAINS AND SCORCHES

    The pigment was then artificially aged by heating the cloth in an oven and washing it, a process which removed it from the surface but left a fuzzy, half-tone image similar to that on the Shroud. He believes the pigment on the original Shroud faded naturally over the centuries.

    They then added blood stains, burn holes, scorches and water stains to achieve the final effect.

    The Catholic Church does not claim the Shroud is authentic nor that it is a matter of faith, but says it should be a powerful reminder of Christ's passion.

    One of Christianity's most disputed relics, it is locked away at Turin Cathedral in Italy and rarely exhibited. It was last on display in 2000 and is due to be shown again next year.
    Garlaschelli expects people to contest his findings.

    "If they don't want to believe carbon dating done by some of the world's best laboratories they certainly won't believe me," he said.

    The accuracy of the 1988 tests was challenged by some hard-core believers who said restorations of the Shroud in past centuries had contaminated the results.

    The history of the Shroud is long and controversial.

    After surfacing in the Middle East and France, it was brought by Italy's former royal family, the Savoys, to their seat in Turin in 1578. In 1983 ex-King Umberto II bequeathed it to the late Pope John Paul.

    The Shroud narrowly escaped destruction in 1997 when a fire ravaged the Guarini Chapel of the Turin cathedral where it is held. The cloth was saved by a fireman who risked his life.

    Garlaschelli received funding for his work by an Italian association of atheists and agnostics but said it had no effect on his results. "Money has no odor," he said. "This was done scientifically. If the Church wants to fund me in the future, here I am."

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091005/sc_nm/us_italy_shroud
     
  2. Chapakazi

    Chapakazi JF-Expert Member

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    nakumbuka tukiwa high school tuli-debate hii ishu sana na mwalimu wangu wa physics. Yeye ni aethiest. Mimi kusema kweli sioni umuhimu wowote wa hii kitu. Kwanza inaweka imani ya mtu katika physical things badala ya Yesu mwenyewe. Kama unasubiri kuiona hii shraud ndo uamini Yesu ni Mungu...basi umeumia. Kanisa linapovipa hivi vitu umuhimu, nahisi linapoteza muelekeo.
     
  3. Bluray

    Bluray JF-Expert Member

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    Mazee hii mbona watu wamesha i debunk siku nyingi tu?

    Achana na hiyo shroud of Turin, huyo Yesu mwenyewe alikuwa mythical figure, tatizo haya mambo yako so dear to our hearts tunapochunguza hatutaki kuwa rational.It is almost like we are subconsciously protecting a fantasy.
     
  4. MwanaFalsafa1

    MwanaFalsafa1 JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu kama unavyo ona hiyo quote hapo kanisa haijaipa hii kitu kipaumbele.
     
  5. Ab-Titchaz

    Ab-Titchaz Content Manager Staff Member

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    Japo kanisa halijaipa kipaumbele, I believe most believers hold
    this thing to be very dear to their faith and thats where the issue lies.
    Kulingana na hii kauli it is very obvious huyu bwana anajua kanisa litakuja
    juu....

     
  6. Ab-Titchaz

    Ab-Titchaz Content Manager Staff Member

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    mmmhhh!..mwanamume sikuwezi. Subiri watakuja wenyewe hapa muanze
    hio ishu ya ku-debunk hizi mystics or fantasies as you put it.Yangu ni
    macho tu.
     
  7. K

    Koba JF-Expert Member

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    ..tunajua yesu na Muhammad nao ni fake tuu na wala hawajawahi kutokea!
     
  8. Ab-Titchaz

    Ab-Titchaz Content Manager Staff Member

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    ..Duh!!!!!...mkuu usipindishe mada tafadhali.
     
  9. MwanaFalsafa1

    MwanaFalsafa1 JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu personally I don't believe in this shroud. Kwa sababu nisha wahi kuona kipindi kinacho elezea authenticity ya hii kitu na chances of it being authentic is very little. I have the Bible which tells me what to believe in and it never said any thing about a shroud. Thus the shroud is irrelevant to my belief or path to salvation. Sorry kwa wenye kuamini tofauti.
     
  10. Chapakazi

    Chapakazi JF-Expert Member

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    mh, Kanisa imeipa hii kitu kipaumbele sana. Kwanza imekataza wana sayansi kuifanyia kazi kwa kusudi la kujua ukweli wake. Soma historia yake, utaelewa.
     
  11. Abdulhalim

    Abdulhalim JF-Expert Member

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    Kipaumbele kipi?
     
  12. Ab-Titchaz

    Ab-Titchaz Content Manager Staff Member

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    Points to ponder....


     
  13. Chapakazi

    Chapakazi JF-Expert Member

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    soma post ya Ab-Titchaz - ameweka vitu wazi.

    Shukran mh kwa kuweke mada mbele.
     
  14. Abdulhalim

    Abdulhalim JF-Expert Member

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    Sasa hicho ndio kipaumbele?
     
  15. Z

    Zawadi Ngoda JF-Expert Member

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    Mtoto, waandika "mh, Kanisa imeipa hii kitu kipaumbele sana. Kwanza imekataza wana sayansi kuifanyia kazi kwa kusudi la kujua ukweli wake. Soma historia yake, utaelewa." Sasa mbona unajichanganya na kunichanganya mimi.

    Maelezo yako hapo juu na haya niliyoyanukuru hayaweki wazi msimamo wako wewe mwenyewe.

    Kwa upande wangu naona uchunguzi ufanywe tu. ajaibu litalopatikana halitamlazimisha yeyote yule kuamini kuwa Yesu ni/si Mungu. Muumini siku zote ataamini vile vile aaminivyo.

    Imani yako isiyumbishwe na wanasayansi. Lakini kama ukweli umekuingia usisite kubadili imani yako, kwani wewe si wa kwanza na wala hutakuwa wa mwisho kubadili imani.
     
  16. Gavana

    Gavana JF-Expert Member

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    bwana/bibi wa ignore list hahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!
     
  17. Abdulhalim

    Abdulhalim JF-Expert Member

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    Kwa wale ambao ni wepesi kutoa incoherent and idiotic conclusion kila mnapoliona neno 'kanisa Katoliki' labda niwape vitu vya kufikiri, japo kidogo:

    - Pope John Paul II
     
  18. Z

    Zawadi Ngoda JF-Expert Member

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    Sasa wewe kipaumbele chako ni nini?

    Haya nitakusaidia, kuweka watu kwenye Ignore list.
     
  19. Abdulhalim

    Abdulhalim JF-Expert Member

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    Huna udhu, nenda katawadhe uende msikitini.
     
  20. Abdulhalim

    Abdulhalim JF-Expert Member

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