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Should Kenya and Tanzania merge?

Discussion in 'Kenyan News and Politics' started by Shy, Feb 7, 2009.

  1. Shy

    Shy JF-Expert Member

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    I have been thinking. What really is the point of having two separate countries? The current borders drawn up by the colonial carve-up really serve no interests and only hinder progress. Below I outline my reasons for this proposal:

    There is plenty of shared heritage and culture. Its not like we would be merging with Nigeria.... Take the Maasai who are currently split into two because of the nonsensical border.

    Tanzania's development will be spurred on from its current doldrums and more investment will arrive in both countries as a result of one large market
    Tourism will benefit hugely.

    The whole southern Kenya / northern Tanzania is one eco-system anyway, so it makes sense.

    Wildebeest don't go through immigration when they migrate back and forth between the Mara-Serengeti, do they?

    Kenyans may learn to speak Swahili safi

    Less confusion for American tourists who keep thinking Kilimanjaro is in Kenya.
     
  2. Nyaralego

    Nyaralego JF-Expert Member

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    @Shy

    I have been thinking. What really is the point of having two separate countries? The current stupid borders drawn up by the colonial carve-up really serve no interests and only hinder progress.

    Below I outline my reasons for this proposal: You funny?
    One country imagine Kikuyus and Chaggas in one place.

    There is plenty of shared heritage and culture. Its not like we would be merging with Nigeria.... Take the Maasai who are currently split into two because of the nonsensical border Na je waKuria na waJaluo?

    Tanzania's development will be spurred on from its current doldrums and more investment will arrive in both countries as a result of one large market
    Tourism will benefit hugely.

    The whole southern Kenya / northern Tanzania is one eco-system anyway, so it makes sense. Wildebeest don't go through immigration when they migrate back and forth between the Mara-Serengeti, do they?

    How about the shared Lake Victoria?

    Kenyans may learn to speak Swahili safi...C'mon there are many Kenyans who speak Swahili safi.

    Less confusion for American tourists who keep thinking Kilimanjaro is in Kenya LMAO

    There would be one more mountain to climb(Mt. Kenya)
     
  3. Lole Gwakisa

    Lole Gwakisa JF-Expert Member

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    Shy

    Your nostalgic thinking ,sir , FAILED, over 30 years ago.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 4, 2016
  4. BAK

    BAK JF-Expert Member

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    Tulikuwa na jumuiya ya Afrika Mashariki kwa maoni yangu ilikuwa na mafanikio makubwa sana. Tulikuwa na shirika la Ndege la jumuiya, bandari n.k. na kama jumuiya isingekufa si ajabu tungukwa tayari na currency ya jumuiya ambayo ingekuwa na nguvu Afrika hata duniani, lakini Wakenya wakawa mstari wa mbele katika kusababisha kuiua jumuiya.

    Kama Jumuiya tu ilitushinda je kuunganisha nchi ndiyo tutaweza? Wachangiaji wengine hapo juu wametoa sababu nzuri sana ambazo zinaonyesha muungano wa nchi hizi mbili hautafanikiwa.

    Angalia Zanzibar na Tanganyika matatizo chungu nzima na viongozi waliokuwa madarakani wanayakwepa badala ya kuyatafuta namna ya kuyamaliza. Kwao wao muungano wa Tanganyika na Z'bar ni shawri tu, kitu ambacho si cha kweli. Tukiongeza tatizo jingine basi Tanzania itawaka moto.
     
  5. M

    Mfumwa JF-Expert Member

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    BUBU Ataka Kusema

    BAK, nakubaliana nawe, Wakenya hutaka kila kitu waonekane ni wao. Mfano hata sasa kabla hatujaungana, Mlima Kilimanjaro wanatangaza uko kwao. Hifadhi ya Mbuga ya Serengeti ina eneo kubwa upande wetu, kwao wanaita Masai Mara lakini vyote hutangaza kuwa vipo kwao.

    Sasa kama hata tu kutangaza rasilimali zilizo kwetu, tunashindwa, zinatangazwa ziko nchi nyingine, unategemea tukiungana na kufungua mipaka tutapata kitu. Hili shirikisho licheleweshwe, kwani tunakimbilia nini?

    Ukija waganda, Museveni ndio kabisa anataka kuwa Rais wa kwanza wa shirikisho, kwake anabadili katiba ili aongoze anavyotaka, huyu hana tofauti na Rais wa maisha wa Uganda (nakumbuka enzi za hayati Kamuzu Banda).
     
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  6. U

    Ubungoubungo JF-Expert Member

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    Braza, wewe hauelewi. sisi tujiunge na kenya kwaajili ya nini? na je, kwanini serengeti iwe yenu, kilimanjaro iwe yenu, tanzanite iwe yenu? kwanini, roho mbaya iyo ya wivu. sis tunao marafiki wengi sana ambao tunafaidika nao ambao sio wakenya.

    Sisi kwanza rafiki yetu mkuu ni China, tumejenga wote Reli ya Tazara from Dar to Kaprimposhi Zambia.

    Pili kuna Tanzania Zambia road from Dar to Lusaka. Pia kuna bomba la mafuta toka Dar mpaka Zambia. Hivyo zambia hawawezi kuishi bila sisi, na hao tunaweza kuwa nao kwasababu tunafaidiana.

    Pili, Malawi, Mozambique pia ni nchi ambazo sisi tunapenda kuwa nao, kwasababu tutatengeneza pesa huko. SADC yote kwa ujumla ni kitu cha muhimu kwetu ndio maana tume denouce openly Comesa.

    Landlocked Burundi na Rwanda lazima watumie ardhi ya Tanzania, kwasababu kutumia kwao Mombasa, inabidi mpaka wapitie Uganda kitu ambacho ni gharama sana kwao. Hivyo, maadamu tumeshatia sahihi na Rwanda kujenga reli kuunganisha reli ya kati inayotoka Dar to lake Tanganyika, hivyo itakuwepo inayodepart kwenda Rwanda, so will be to Burundi. Hawa wote ni wateja wetu wa Dar port.

    Saudi Arabia and the Arab countries karibia watasain mkataba wa kujenga bandari kubwa sana kule Bagamoyo, pia tunao mpango kuitengeneza bandari ya Tanga, na Mtwara to the International evel. bandari hizi tatu tukizitengeneza, wafanya biashara wa Uganda, Rwanda, kenya yenyewe, Congo, zambia, Mozambique hadi Angola kule, watahamia bandari za Dar.

    Hivyo tutakuwa tumeikausha kabisaa bandari ya Mombasa na ninyi mtakuwa wateja wetu. Kiburi chenu si maungwana, ninyi mnaongea sisi tunanyamaza tunafanya kwa vitendo.

    Ninyi si mnae obama ambaye ataweka interest zote za marekani east africa kwenye nchi yenu? nchi ambayo imeweka hata millitary base ya marekani? sisi tunao mpango kuungana na maadui zanu wachina, ndio maana Hu Jing Tao anakuja wiki hiii atakaa hapa siku mbili.

    Rais mkubwa kama yule unafikiri anakuja kufanya nini kwenye nchi ndogo kama Tanzania? na sisi tutakuwa na block ya china nyie Obama na kwasababu China sio socialist tena kama zamani, hatuwezi fanya makosa na hatuwezi kuathirika.

    Nawaambieni wakenya, ndoto yenu ya kuchuma Tanzania imekwisha, na kama kuna mwaka mlishawahi kufikiri Tanzania hawatakuwa na maendeleo zaidi yenu, mlikosea, mnaenda kuona kwa macho yenu waziwazi tukiwapiku. subirini.
     
  7. Smatta

    Smatta JF-Expert Member

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    Ubungoubungo

    Niaje bro.

    Would really love to see your reactions when you read facts about China.

    Just like the whites, dont think you can get much from China, they will milk your resources dry before you realize that you have been duped it will kill your domestic industries using their cheap imitations.(China dont care about anything except what you can do for China).. mimi simpondi bwana Hu, just ask Sudan the benefits they reap from China.

    Dont get so much emotionally attached to your South African counnterparts, yani mwataka kuacha east Africa community mwingie pande ya kusini mwa Afrika, kweli youve got your priorities all mixed up just like Museveni said, I think we can even do better without Tz in the EAC.

    Progress doesn't wait for no one before you notice the gains being made by EAC, nchi zilizo ndani ya shirika hili zitakuwa zimeendelea sana, and we wount need a factor(Tz), that will drag our progress behind.Kuwa na usiku mwema ndugu yangu.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 4, 2016
  8. Lole Gwakisa

    Lole Gwakisa JF-Expert Member

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    Smatta

    My dear brother Smatta, you have explained the Kenya point of view about Tanzania in no uncertain terms.

    Nafikiri kauli yako juu ya msimao wa Kenya juu ya EA ni wa kupongezwa kwa sababu ndio ukweli na si unafiki.

    What Kenya needs from Tanzania si maendeleo ya Tz bali kufisadi mali yote iliyomo,waTz mkifia mbali it is none of their business.

    Mnakumbuka wa Kenya walivyofisadi East Africa Airways? basi ni kwa mtindo huo.You can never call a nyang'au a friend.
     
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  9. J

    Jasusi JF-Expert Member

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    Mtabishana, mtatukanana, mtaitana majina lakini at the end of the day Tanzania na Kenya ni kama ndugu wa tumbo moja. You can choose your neighbor but you cannot choose your brother. Kenya is a brother in the sense that hata Tanzania tukiwachukia kiasi gani they will always be next to us and vise versa. So do all the name calling and at the end of the day we have to live with each other.
     
  10. K

    Koba JF-Expert Member

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    Wish tungeungana hata kesho,nafikiri kuna mengi mazuri kuliko mabaya kama tukiungana.
     
  11. K

    Koba JF-Expert Member

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    Ubungoubungo

    Sasa hii mipasho ya nini? tuna bahati kubwa sana ya kuwa na bandari lakini kinachoendelea sasa hapo bandarini God knows,Uganda wanajenga reli kutoka Mombasa na Rwanda na burundi wanataka kuunganishwa kutokea Uganda,ni kweli kuna plan ya kujenga reli from TZ mpaka Rwanda lakini ni memorandum of understanding tuu,tukicheza hakuna nchi itatumia bandari yetu,halafu hayo ya China na Obama hebu achana nayo na hawawezi kutusaidia chochote hata wakija TZ kila siku,na ujue watu kwenda kutafuta kazi au biashara nchi nyingine sio kitu kibaya...ushirikiano ni kitu kizuri sana na practically nimesave pesa nyingi sana kutokana na mambo kama haya,sijui kama unajua kwa sababu tulikuwa SADCC ukienda kusoma South Africa unalipa kama South Africans na tofauti ni kama dola 5000 kwa mwaka na international student or non SADCC na fees kibao zinakuwa ommited,nakuomba uangalie EAC inataka kufanya nini katika EDUCATION labda utaelewa umuhimu wa kushirikiana...na unapiga makelele tuu wakati kazi inaendelea na ninakuhakikishia hii Federation itakuja tuu,haya mambo ya sijui wakenya wanataka mali zetu nafikiri ni upuuzi tuu na hakuna kitu kama hicho..kwanza sijui tuna mali gani ya wao kuja kuchukua bure!
     
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  12. Lole Gwakisa

    Lole Gwakisa JF-Expert Member

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    Koba

    Muheshimiwa sana Koba , soma post ya Smatta hapo juu na ndio utaelewa interest ya Kenya katika Tanzania.Si uongo usiofichika kuwa wenzetu kwenye kupenda mali wako kwenye overdrive na ukizubaa tu umeliwa.1977 waliappropriate ndege zote za EApamoja na mabehewa mengi tuya treni, ule ndio ushirikiano.

    Leo uliwe tena kwa mara ya pili mtu utaitwa mpumbavu.

    Kudanganywa mara mbili katika kizazi kimoja itakuwa aibu.

    Kushirikiana na Kenya ni jambo la muhimu lakini TERMS lazima ziwekwe wazi, si kujipeleka kichwa kichwa,umeshuhuddia mapanga ya mwaka jana kati ya ndugu na ndugu, sembuse wa mbali watanzania?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 4, 2016
  13. M

    MzalendoHalisi JF-Expert Member

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    Afrika lazima tuungane..la sivyo tataperish!
     
  14. killo

    killo JF-Expert Member

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    My simplest Opinion as a Tanzanian..... is NO....!
    Thats my opinion
     
  15. killo

    killo JF-Expert Member

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    Who says so......!!! Stop watching too much movies man
     
  16. Ladslaus Modest

    Ladslaus Modest JF-Expert Member

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    Tanzania na Kenya (na uganda na Rwanda na Burundi) zitaungana na kuwa nchi moja pale ambapo wakazi wake watakapokuwa hawazungumzi tena na wala hawajui tena lugha za asili (lugha ya mama) wakiwa wanazungumza kiswahili na kimombo tu. Na hii itatokea zaidi ya miaka 500 ijayo.

    Shirikisho la Afrika litakamilika pale Waafrika wote watapokuwa hawaendeshwi kwa hulka za UBINAFSI. Na hili litatokea zaidi ya miaka 1000 ijayo.

    Tuijenge kwanza Tanzania yetu, tuondokane na UDINI na UKABILA na UFISADI ndio tutakapoweza kuwaza jinsi ya kuungana na wenzetu kama wakenya ambao nao watakuwa sio WADINI, WAKABILA wala MAFISADI.

    Mungu atusaidie.
     
  17. K

    Koba JF-Expert Member

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    Lole Gwakisa

    Wewe sijui hizo facts zako unapata wapi,lakini sijawahi kusikia hata siku moja serikali ya TZ imelalamika kudhulumiwa na EAC iliyovunjika,najua tuligawana kila kitu na hata AICC ni matokeo ya huo mgawo,kulaumu kenya kwa kuvunjika kwa EAC nafikiri ni siasa tuu ambazo hazina maana yeyote na sio kweli,tofauti za ideology ya soshalist Nyerere,capitalist kenyatta na psychotic Amin ndio zilivunja EAC ikichangiwa na cold war.

    Sana sana waliodhulumiwa ni babu zako upande wa TZ ambao hawajalipwa na serikali yako unayoiona malaika,hayo mapanga ya wakenya hata Tarime yalitokea na ni katika watu kudai haki zao na kuchoka kudhulumiwa na mafisadi, tunalingia bandari as if wao hawana yao ambayo ni kubwa na more efficient kuliko yetu, hii community itakuja tuu na wala sio lazima majority wakubali na historically changes inafanywa na wachache wengine mtafuata tuu na mtaona faida zake, reality tuu ndio itafanikisha hii kitu na wengi wameshaona acheni politics zisizo na maana,fearmongering,consipiracy za ukabila, madaraka, kudhulumiwa na wengine na mawazo ya kujiona bila nyie EA haitatokea wewe jiandae tuu EA inakuja utake usitake maana hatuwezi kuendelea kuishi kwenye vibox alivyotucholea mkoloni,tunataka free movements of goods & services na one voice bargaining power.

    EAST AFRICAN BLOCK.
     
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  18. Smatta

    Smatta JF-Expert Member

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    Koba

    I really like your school of thought Koba. Before people start making attempts to demonise the integration of EA, they should first weigh the pros and cons that the community will bring. I am 101% sure that there is more benefits than losses that both our countries will get. God did not create the world with borders.. Borders were just created by racist white dudes at lancaster, people who had never even set foot in beautiful Africa decided that its best if they divide it amongst a few countries so that they can not collide when exploiting it.

    Now we are embracing the borders as if its the best idea since sliced bread, before the colonialist came, our forefathers used to transverse this vast continent without much of a conflict. Now a Kenyan businessman can not conduct his legal duty in Tanzania before immigration officials bundle him/her out of the country, or even get shot by the cops who claim that he/she was 'planning' to rob a bank.

    We all wonder what our countries try to protect when they alienate their neighbors. Let me give you an example in Kenya.. Tanzanians work peacefully within our borders, with no limitations whatsoever, Somali's have invested HEAVILY in Kenya, and our people are ripping benefits from them(though they are known to be war minded and violent, we have embraced them)

    In this world there is nothing which is 100% good, you must take the good with the bad.

    Wakenya ni watu wazuri sana if you take time to undestand them, but if you take every word preached to you by people who dislike us, then you might think that we are worse than Nigerians(no pun intended to our Naija boys)
     
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  19. J

    Jasusi JF-Expert Member

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    Ladslaus Modest
    Tanzania haitajengeka CCM ikiwa madarakani. Tuivunje kwanza CCM na sera zake za kuuza nchi ndipo Tanzania huru itakapozaliwa.
     
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  20. Shishi

    Shishi JF-Expert Member

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    Mwana wa Mungu

    Aisee it seems like you are very resentful towards Kenya and Kenyans... we gd pple... yours is a very generalized perception.. mi nawafagilia sana waTz ...okay we kinda feel superior but thats not a lie is it nangoja vita hapa sasa.
     
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