Elections 2010 Shibuda ahamia CHADEMA

[chibhitoke]

Mkuu Kitila,
Hata kuzaliwa upya au kuokoka huja kwa kusikia neno, huyu neno kasikia lini. Hana tofauti na mtu anayehama dhehebu kwa vile kakosa cheo. Naheshimu uhuru wa mtu kuhama chama apendavyo ila kwa huyu jamaa nina wasiwasi naye. Je ana kitu cha ziada ambacho CHADEMA mtafaidika nacho kulinganisha na makombora ya Makamba kuwa huyo ni ''matapishi'' ya CCM. Kwa ufupi huyu jamaa hana staha ya kuwa CHADEMA labda kama chama chenu mmekuwa kokoro-sijui nimeandika sawa- lile linalovua samaki na matakataka mengine

 

[Kiranga]

Well said Luteni. Tena aligeuka baada ya CC kukata jina lake. Leo ni hero wetu!
Kuna sehemu kama Wilaya za Muheza/ Mwanga/ Same huko viongozi wa Chadema laah! yaani hata mwenyewe anaona aibu kugombea, sasa kama yupo ''shibuda'' atakayepeperusha bendera kuna tatizo gani. Lengo kuwe na wapinzani wengi bungeni kwanza.
Mi nasema Selelii, Aloyce, Shibuda wakihamia Chadema poa tu ,vumbi lao tunalijua jamani! mnyonge mnyongeni haki...............

Naelewa kuna issue nzima ya name recognitiona and all kama nilivyosema hapo juu.

Lakini ukiniambia CHADEMA haina wagombea unaniambia udhaifu wa CHADEMA ambao CHADEMA inatakiwa kuuondoa kutoka ndani ya chama.

Mkiwakumbatia sana hawa rejects wa CCM kesho keshokutwa CCM watawafanyia bonge la takeover ya chama, kama James Mapalala alivyofanyiwa CUF.

After all, who is to say kwamba hawawafanyii kazi CCM? Mnachukua mtu hata bila probation period mnataka kumpa ugombea ubunge?

 

[Kiranga]

Mkuu Kitila,
Hata kuzaliwa upya au kuokoka huja kwa kusikia neno, huyu neno kasikia lini. Hana tofauti na mtu anayehama dhehebu kwa vile kakosa cheo. Naheshimu uhuru wa mtu kuhama chama apendavyo ila kwa huyu jamaa nina wasiwasi naye. Je ana kitu cha ziada ambacho CHADEMA mtafaidika nacho kulinganisha na makombora ya Makamba kuwa huyo ni ''matapishi'' ya CCM. Kwa ufupi huyu jamaa hana staha ya kuwa CHADEMA labda kama chama chenu mmekuwa kokoro-sijui nimeandika sawa- lile linalovua samaki na matakataka mengine

Word, nakukubali mzee.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

1. Be serious mkuu. You can not honestly use Joe Lieberman as an example. Kwanza kwa Marekani if you know anything about political science (which I'm sure you do) utajua kwama Marekani wana what is called 'weak party system". Meaning kwamba hamna mfugamano wa kichama. Hata kadi za uanachama hazi exist. Pili Joe Lieberman baaada ya kushindwa primaries za Democrats aka gombea kama independent na haku hama chama. Hadi sasa mara nyingi huwa ana vote on the side of the Democrats. So utamlinganishaje Lierberman na SHibuda? Mfano mbovu huu.

Oh yeah Lieberman ana side na Dems lakini ndio huyo huyo alimpigia debe McCain....wakati huyo huyo Lieberman alikuwa vp nominee 2000, sio? Lol

2. You are confusing philosophy and political ideology. Una taka nikuambie kama vyama vya Tanzania ni left or right wakati unajua fika kwamba left, right, conservative & liberal ni a western phenomenon na haiz exist everywhere in the world. Again usi jaribu kucompare kila kitu cha Marekani na huku. ZIngatia we have different political systems na ndiyo maana ukatoa mfano wa Lieberman bila kufikiria kwamba he ran as an independent na Tanzania hakuna wagombea binafsi.

Okay, you can split hairs if you want...political philosophy and political ideology...same difference. Liberalism and conservatism can both be philosophies and ideologies. Cheki nukuu hii kutoka wiki "The revolutionaries in the American Revolution and the French Revolution used liberal philosophy to justify the armed overthrow of tyrannical rule."

So if you really wanna get into the semantics of it, both of these words can be used interchangeably depending on the context....don't make me go there now....

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Ha ha ha,

NN bana, hiyo case naona umeishikia bango... lol
Naona inabidi hata case ya Dr Masau (siko shua na jina) irudi hapa maana Kuhani yupo hapa kwa jina lingine.

Wewe subiri tu...niko kaa mtoto mdogo mie...sisahaugi kitu. Dawa ya Tindikali ipo inachemka....you just wait....

 

[Mwafrika]

Mkuu Kitila,
Hata kuzaliwa upya au kuokoka huja kwa kusikia neno, huyu neno kasikia lini. Hana tofauti na mtu anayehama dhehebu kwa vile kakosa cheo. Naheshimu uhuru wa mtu kuhama chama apendavyo ila kwa huyu jamaa nina wasiwasi naye. Je ana kitu cha ziada ambacho CHADEMA mtafaidika nacho kulinganisha na makombora ya Makamba kuwa huyo ni ''matapishi'' ya CCM. Kwa ufupi huyu jamaa hana staha ya kuwa CHADEMA labda kama chama chenu mmekuwa kokoro-sijui nimeandika sawa- lile linalovua samaki na matakataka mengine

Kwani kuna tatizo gani kama akipigiwa kura na wanachadema na akashinda?

Kuhamia CHADEMA sio tatizo, issue ipo kwenye kushinda pia... muulize Mpendazoe. Hakuna sheria yoyote inayozuia watu kujiunga na chama. Uhalisia wao utapimwa kadri muda unavyoendelea.

Kuhusu matapishi, chadema waliambiwa the same things wakati wanamkubali Slaa.

Chama cha mafisadi mmeumia kweli kwa rafu mlizofanya na sasa watu wanawakimbia.

 

[Kiranga]

Wala tusiende Marekani. Ni mbali mno huko. Mrema mbona alikuwa CCM na akabadili vyama, akagombea uraisi akashindwa, akagombea ubunge kupitia NCCR-Mageuzi akashinda. Au nimekosea?

Exactly my point, Mrema yuko wapi sasa baada ya kubadili vyama kama nguo ? Karudi CCM in all but name.

Juzi alikuwa ana dance kama a street gipsy kwa Kikwete, hamna hata dignity kwamba huyu bwana kuna wakati bado kidogo awe rais wetu.

Sasa unataka kutengeneza Mrema mwingine kwa Shibuda? Is this what we are aiming at? Kushinda chaguzi bila kujua tunataka kufanya nini?

An electocracy and bragging rights due to more palriamentary seat but no substance ?

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Mrema kwani alikuwaga chama gani zamani?

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Exactly my point, Mrema yuko wapi sasa baada ya kubadili vyama kama nguo ? Karudi CCM in all but name.

Hehehehe ebana eeh mimi nilimtolea mfano tu huyo jamaa....yaani umenifanya hadi nicheke...kweli jamaa haeleweki. Lakini si ndio demokrasia hiyo? Kwa nini wewe unataka watu wanyimwe haki ya kuhamia kokote kule wanakotaka? Na kwa nini vyama viwakatae? Na kama wakiamua kugombea nafasi ya kisiasa, si wananchi ndio wanaamua? Au kinachoamua ni chama?

Juzi alikuwa ana dance kama a street gipsy kwa Kikwete, hamna hata dignity kwamba huyu bwana kuna wakati bado kidogo awe rais wetu.

Lol..tuko pamoja kuhusu sentiments zako kwa Mrema

Sasa unataka kutengeneza Mrema mwingine kwa Shibuda? Is this what we are aiming at? Kushinda chaguzi bila kujua tunataka kufanya nini?

Son, it's called democracy and it is messy. Or you didn't know that?

 

[Kiranga]

Kwani kuna tatizo gani kama akipigiwa kura na wanachadema na akashinda?

Kuhamia CHADEMA sio tatizo, issue ipo kwenye kushinda pia... muulize Mpendazoe. Hakuna sheria yoyote inayozuia watu kujiunga na chama. Uhalisia wao utapimwa kadri muda unavyoendelea.

Kuhusu matapishi, chadema waliambiwa the same things wakati wanamkubali Slaa.

Chama cha mafisadi mmeumia kweli kwa rafu mlizofanya na sasa watu wanawakimbia.

Tatizo ni kwamba anawea kushinda kwa tiketi ya CHADEMA wakati moyoni bado CCM, akienda mjengoni anapata talks na Kingunge Ngombare Mwiru, Kingunge anatoa charms zake za uzoefu wa kuwa a CCM old fox, namwambia

"listen son, that Maswa primary business is some bullshyt shameful thing, but I always had faith in you, and fvck them CHADEMA suckers, they need you than you need them, now here is the story, our agenda is blah blah blah, pay some lip service to CHADEMA, but when it comes down to the wire in the Quorum, always vote with CCM, and we will take better care of you than we did when you were in CCM, you got some college age kids? We have a special fund for that, pick your country, US, UK Malaysia etc, heres my card, think about it, give me a buzz anytime"

Mchezo umeisha, mnashangaa Shibuda anapiga kelele, lakini mkihesabu kura za wapinzani bungeni kuna nyingine zina miss.

This is a very real scenario. Think about it hard before giving Shibuda the nomination.

 

[Mwafrika]

Exactly my point, Mrema yuko wapi sasa baada ya kubadili vyama kama nguo ? Karudi CCM in all but name.

Juzi alikuwa ana dance kama a street gipsy kwa Kikwete, hamna hata dignity kwamba huyu bwana kuna wakati bado kidogo awe rais wetu.

Sasa unataka kutengeneza Mrema mwingine kwa Shibuda? Is this what we are aiming at? Kushinda chaguzi bila kujua tunataka kufanya nini?

An electocracy and bragging rights due to more palriamentary seat but no substance ?

Kiranga,

Kufeli kwa Mrema sio tu pekee (only) kwa vile alibadili vyama kama nguo. Kuna wengi ambao hawajabadili vyama lakini sasa hivi hawatamaniki (ningetaja mwanaccm nguli mmoja hapa lakini sitaki kuanzisha ugomvi nisioutaka).

 

[Mwafrika]

Tatizo ni kwamba anawea kushinda kwa tiketi ya CHADEMA wakati moyoni bado CCM, akienda mjengoni anapata talks na Kingunge Ngombare Mwiru, Kingunge anatoa charms zake za uzoefu wa kuwa a CCM old fox, namwambia

"listen son, that Maswa primary business is some bullshyt shameful thing, but I always had faith in you, and fvck them CHADEMA suckers, they need you than you need them, now here is the story, our agenda is blah blah blah, pay some lip service to CHADEMA, but when it comes down to the wire in the Quorum, always vote with CCM, and we will take better care of you than we did when you were in CCM, you got some college age kids? We have a special fund for that, pick your country, US, UK Malaysia etc, heres my card, think about it, give me a buzz anytime"

Mchezo umeisha, mnashangaa Shibuda anapiga kelele, lakini mkihesabu kura za wapinzani bungeni kuna nyingine zina miss.

This is a very real scenario. Think about it hard before giving Shibuda the nomination.

Hapo unaongelea scenario ambayo haijatokea bado.

Mimi nilitegemea sana kuwa Mpendazoe atashinda kwenye primary ya chadema lakini nilishangazwa sana na matokeo. Wakati mwingine tunawadharau sana wapiga kura Tanzania kuliko wanavyostahili. Wana chadema wa huko watampima na kumuona kama anafaa au la.

Wao ndio wenye maamuzi ya mwisho. Wakiona anafaa watampigia kura na kama hafai, atakuwa tu kama Mpendazoe.

 

[Mwafrika]

Wewe subiri tu...niko kaa mtoto mdogo mie...sisahaugi kitu. Dawa ya Tindikali ipo inachemka....you just wait....

I am salivating ... wildly ... of course

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Wana chadema wa huko watampima na kumuona kama anafaa au la.

Wao ndio wenye maamuzi ya mwisho. Wakiona anafaa watampigia kura na kama hafai, atakuwa tu kama Mpendazoe.

Ewaaaaa hayo ndio maneno. Na hicho ndicho twakiita demokrasia.

 

[Nguruvi3]

Naelewa kuna issue nzima ya name recognitiona and all kama nilivyosema hapo juu.

Lakini ukiniambia CHADEMA haina wagombea unaniambia udhaifu wa CHADEMA ambao CHADEMA inatakiwa kuuondoa kutoka ndani ya chama.

Mkiwakumbatia sana hawa rejects wa CCM kesho keshokutwa CCM watawafanyia bonge la takeover ya chama, kama James Mapalala alivyofanyiwa CUF.

After all, who is to say kwamba hawawafanyii kazi CCM? Mnachukua mtu hata bila probation period mnataka kumpa ugombea ubunge?

Mkuu Kiranga, hebu tujiulize ukimwacha John Mnyika ninani mwingine anategemea kuchukua jimbo Dar es salaam. Hata kule kigamboni ni kuwa ukishinda CCM maoni basi umeshakuwa mbunge. Mimi naamini ukimwacha '' shibuda type'' akatoa changamoto ndio mwanzo mzuri, akiwa mbunge ni nzuri zaidi. Ninachokataa ni ''makapi'' kutoka CCM kuja na kupewa uongozi wa chama. Mkuu it is too late chadema kurekebisha udhaifu, tu deal na kile kitakachotupa results hata kama si best

 

[Kiranga]

Kiranga,

Kufeli kwa Mrema sio tu pekee (only) kwa vile alibadili vyama kama nguo. Kuna wengi ambao hawajabadili vyama lakini sasa hivi hawatamaniki (ningetaja mwanaccm nguli mmoja hapa lakini sitaki kuanzisha ugomvi nisioutaka).

Huku ni kuangalia mambo kinyumenyume.

Of course kuna wanasiasa wengi wanao fail katika vyama vyao, kuna wanasiasa wengi wanaofail katika familia zao pia, where do you draw the line to minimize failure?

You draw the line to minimize failure by having a probtion period, ndiyo maana nikatoa mfano wa wakatoliki na dini nyingine wanavyokupa muda wa kusoma imani zao, kuzielewa, kuzichanganua na kuzikubali.

Kwa kuwa na probation period hii, Shibuda na wagombea wengine kama yeye watapata muda wa kukijua chama vizuri zaidi, na chama kitapata muda kuwajua kina Shibuda vizuri zaidi. Kwa hiyo Shibuda akiona chama hakifai anaweza kuondoka, na chama kikiona Shibuda hafai kinaweza kumkataa.

Sio mtu anataka ukubwa tu, by any means, hata kama chama cha shetani yuko radhi kukikubali.

Na chama kinataka mtu maarufu tu, bila kujali kama kuna kukubaliana itikadi, hata kama shetani mwenyewe, ili mradi anaweza kushinda uchaguzi tu.

Ndiyo tutakuwa tunazunguka kwenye electocracy, empty calories zinaongeza uzito tu na hazina virutubisho, protini, vitamini wala madini, ni hatari kwa afya yako.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Kwa kuwa na probation period hii, Shibuda na wagombea wengine kama yeye watapata muda wa kukijua chama vizuri zaidi, na chama kitapata muda kuwajua kina Shibuda vizuri zaidi. Kwa hiyo Shibuda akiona chama hakifai anaweza kuondoka, na chama kikiona Shibuda hafai kinaweza kumkataa.

Probation period kwa Shibuda ya nini bana? Jamaa ni seasoned politician na hahitaji probation period....angekuwa a political neophyte kama akina Regia hapo labda ningeelewa...lakini Shibuda....for what man?

 

[Kiranga]

Mkuu Kiranga, hebu tujiulize ukimwacha John Mnyika ninani mwingine anategemea kuchukua jimbo Dar es salaam. Hata kule kigamboni ni kuwa ukishinda CCM maoni basi umeshakuwa mbunge. Mimi naamini ukimwacha '' shibuda type'' akatoa changamoto ndio mwanzo mzuri, akiwa mbunge ni nzuri zaidi. Ninachokataa ni ''makapi'' kutoka CCM kuja na kupewa uongozi wa chama. Mkuu it is too late chadema kurekebisha udhaifu, tu deal na kile kitakachotupa results hata kama si best

Nakuelewa, naelewa temptation ya CHADEMA, hili nilishalisema hapo mwanzo.

Lakini watu tunao vote principles na core values tutangalia deep. to be fair unaweza ku justify kumchukua mtu kama Shibuda kwa kuangalia sababu zilizomfanya aondoke CCM.

Shibuda angekuwa ameondoka CCM kwa sababu ya principle, ningeweza kumkubali. Lakini Shibuda hakuondoka CCM kwa sababu ya principle, alikuwa na muda mrefu kuondoka kwa sababu za principle, lakini hakufanya hivyo.

Kaondoka CCM kwa sababu kashindwa, na yuko radhi kuingia chama chochote chenye nafasi ili mradi ashinde ubunge tu. Watu tunao vote issues hatuwezi kumpigia kura mamluki anayejiuza kwa mtu yeyote anayeweza kumpatia mkate wake.

CHADEMA kama ina matatizo ya kupata wagombea wenye sifa i address hili swala well before election time, sasa mnaniambia CHADEMA itakuwa inangojea makombo ya CCM tu? Haina strategy za ku groom uongozi kutoka within the party? Haina strategy hata za kuwachukua wanachama wa CCM kibao ambao ni prominent people lakini hawana uongozi katika CCM ?

Kwangu mimi kumfanya Shibuda mgombea ubunge kutakuwa ni udhaifu wa hali ya juu kwa CHADEMA, watakuwa wana send message kwamba hawana chama chenye uongozi na hawako tayari kuchukua nchi.

 

[Kiranga]

Probation period kwa Shibuda ya nini bana? Jamaa ni seasoned politician na hahitaji probation period....angekuwa a political neophyte kama akina Regia hapo labda ningeelewa...lakini Shibuda....for what man?

Kwa hiyo hata kama CCM ina strategy ya kupandikiza majasusi wake ndani ya CHADEMA waletwe tu, hamna kuwachunguza wala nini?

 

[Kiranga]

Hapo unaongelea scenario ambayo haijatokea bado.

Mimi nilitegemea sana kuwa Mpendazoe atashinda kwenye primary ya chadema lakini nilishangazwa sana na matokeo. Wakati mwingine tunawadharau sana wapiga kura Tanzania kuliko wanavyostahili. Wana chadema wa huko watampima na kumuona kama anafaa au la.

Wao ndio wenye maamuzi ya mwisho. Wakiona anafaa watampigia kura na kama hafai, atakuwa tu kama Mpendazoe.

Mtu anakwambia "ukiendesha gari kuna uwezekano wa kupata ajali, funga mkanda, kata insurance"

Wewe unamwambia "hii ni scenario ambayo haijatokea"

Mtu anakwambia "ukitia bila mpira utapata miwaya, better wrap it up"

Wewe unamwambia "Hii ni scenario ambayo haijatokea". Yaani sisi hatujui "risk management" kabisa.

Mpendazoe ni classic example ya kwamba watu wa CHADEMA hawataki mapandikizi haya.