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Prof. Chachage ukweli wa maneno yake umetimia

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Mbugi, Aug 4, 2012.

  1. Mbugi

    Mbugi JF-Expert Member

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    "Ukiona mtu nyumbani kwake kajenga ukuta mrefu na mageti mazito UJUE ni mwizi na kimsingi anahofu ya kuvamiwa na aliowazulumu haki yao" nenda msasani kwa mwalimu hana ukuta huo wala geti na kimsingi hakuwa na hofu na wala hakuwahi kuwazulumu watu. - prof chachage


    Katika moja ya kile ambacho professor chachage aliwahi sema na sasa kimetimia ni juu ya viongozi wetu mafisadi na tabia yao ya kujiwekea kuta na mageti makubwa kama vile haitoshi wanaweka walinzi na pia ktk pilo zao hawakosi pisto.
     
  2. Lokissa

    Lokissa JF-Expert Member

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    unataka kusema jambazi anachagua mafisadi pekee?
    hata hivo Mungu asipoulinda mji wakeshao wanafanya kazi bure.
    nadhani ni kwa usalama wa kawaida kwa vile Tanzania tuna gape kubwa kati ya maskini na tajiri
    vibaka wapo,
    hata mimi nina kageti uchwara ilihali mimi sio fisadi.
     
  3. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Gross oversimplification.

    Hivi huyu ndo Chachage anayesifika kama scholar wa nguvu kaandika this rubbish of a sweeping statement?

    Na watu wanamshabikia tu?

    Kwa hiyo kila anayejenga ukuta mkubwa kuilinda nyumba yake ni mwizi/fisadi?

    Ndo wasomi wetu hawa wanavyojenga chuki ya jumla jumla miongoni mwa jamii yetu?

    Kama siamini, hebu tuambie kitabu gani cha Chachage kimeandika hivi, au alisema hivi wapi? Una source gani maana usije kumlisha maneno ambayo hata hajayasema marehemu wa watu hata kujitetea hawezi.
     
  4. mtotowamjini

    mtotowamjini JF-Expert Member

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    Sio kweli bana kulivo na majambazi huku mitaani kila mtu anaweka ukuta siku hizi
     
  5. georgeallen

    georgeallen JF-Expert Member

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    gape kubwa kati ya maskini na tajiri ndiyo chanzo hasa cha maukuta na mageti. enzi za mwalimu hiyo gape ilikuwa ndogo sana na ndiyo sababu mageti yalikuwa madogo au hayakuwepo kabisa
     
  6. Kichuguu

    Kichuguu Platinum Member

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    Prof Chachage was not a decorated scholar, but he was a scholar and a strong advocate of human rights for all cadres; he was strong in fighting injustice of any kind in the society, which include corruption.

    Our political leaders should be at the forefront of defending the people they are leading, not defending themselves. If the society is so bad to the extent that each political leader has to have a fort, what are they doing to remedy it?
     
  7. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Your final question is beside my analysis and frame of disqualifying the purported assertion as valid.

    My main concern is the gross oversimplified generalization purported to come from a seasoned and popular scholar -decorated or not.

    I still hold this quote as suspect, a special case of plagiarism by which someone ascribes a quote to someone else without that quote being actual.

    I demanded the source in order to verify.I still do not have the source.

    I will be very disappointed either way.If this proves to be an actual Chachage quote then the imbecilic overgeneralization -that anyone with a high gate is a fisadi- is not worthy of any gentleman, let alone a scholar. This is language I would expect from "wachuuzi wa maneno" and the Mtikilas of this country, people who rely on igniting passions more than intellects. A scholar of the late Chachage's caliber should always avoid oversimplified generalization that would prove destructive and a kind of "mtego wa panya unaonasa waliotakiwa na wasiotakiwa".

    I am sure there is plenty a hardworking family with a high gate because they are afraid that "mafisadi" have penetrated the police force to the extent that the IGP can be bought and bandits can rent the police's arms to come to one's house.

    So you may very well have a high gate on the home of a straight and narrow traversing Tanzanian who is afraid of the powers of mafisadi.

    If this is not an actual Chachage quote, I will be disappointed in Mbugi.
     
  8. M

    MPIGA ZEZE JF-Expert Member

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    Ndugu, this is a political metaphor. Don't take Chachage's assertion at it's face value!!!!
     
  9. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Political metaphor or not, exactitude is king. It is actually what distinguishes a true scholar from the masses.

    Especially in a combustible uneducated population as ours, from a respected scholar as Chachage. Had this been political rhetoric I could have dismissed it as leveraged propaganda. But a scholar?

    Unaweza kutoa political metaphor kwamba wote wenye mageti makubwa ni wezi watu wakaanza kuandamana kupiga mawe nyumba zote zenye mageti makubwa kama Mtikila alivyosema wahindi maga-bacholi watu wakanza kupiga mawe magari yote yenye mtu yeyote mwenye hint ya weupe tu.

    That's my point.

    Noblesse Oblige.

    Kwa hiyo hii ni a certified quote ya a UDSM scholar? I cringe at the mere thought!
     
  10. Gaijin

    Gaijin JF-Expert Member

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    Hii haiwezi kuwa nukuu ya moja kwa moja kutoka kwenye Kitabu cha Prof.Chachage, nakataa kuwa anaweza kukosea na kuandika "kuzulumu" mara mbili kwenye sentensi moja

     
  11. Kichuguu

    Kichuguu Platinum Member

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    Understood!!

    I guess the quote, or the like, was directed to political leaders who do so after they hold powerful political-based positions in the society.
     
  12. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Most honourable Kichuguu,

    Ukishatoa public statement (ambayo of course haiko sealed kwenye envelope addressed kwa Kikwete and his ilk for example), huwezi kutetewa kwamba "umetoa statement iliyokuwa directed to political leaders". Kwa sababu regardless ya ilikuwa directed wapi, imesikika nchi nzima.Implications na repercussions zinavuma nchi nzima, unaweza kuanzisha the proverbial "geanie from a bottle" effect, ukawa umewasha kibiriti kuanzisha moto ambao huwezi kuuzima. Ukatega mtego wa panya utakaonasa waliokusudiwa na wasiokusudiwa. Watu wakapiga mawe -na hata bunduki- kwenye mageti makubwa yote, ya mafisadi na ya Watanzania walioitumikia nchi kwa uaminifu mkubwa na kukwepa nafasi zote walizopata za kufisadi nchi.

    Msomi hawezi kuipiga msumeno nchi yake mwenyewe kwa saizi ya mageti ilhali saizi ya mageti si kitenganisho cha halali cha nani fisadi na nani si fisadi. Kuna mafisadi wanakaa kwenye nyumba zisizo na mageti, na watu waadilifu wanaokaa kwenye nyumba zenye mageti makubwa.

    Ndiyo maana mimi naona vigumu kuamini kwamba msomi ambaye hawi motivated na siasa za rejareja wala njaa anaweza kuweka jina lake kwenye maneno fyongo kama haya.

    Bado sijapata source by the way.

    Sitaki kuamini kwamba maneno haya ni ya marehemu Profesa Chachage Seithy L. Chachage.
     
  13. Nyani Ngabu

    Nyani Ngabu Platinum Member

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  14. nngu007

    nngu007 JF-Expert Member

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    Hana Maana ni Majambazi tu; Siri nani anakuja Nyumbani kwake kwa Ufisadi ambaye sio Msafi anayefanya shughuli

    Sio za haki Mfano Mzuri nikupe ni ule Mpango wa hao waliokuwa wanakula wakati wa Umeme kuzimwa labda walikuwa

    Wanazuru nyumba za Wakuu wa Serikali na kama kuna kuta kubwa na za kisiri nani atajua humo ndani nani yumo?

    Panua Mawazo Yako... ONA MBALI....
     
  15. M

    Mokerema JF-Expert Member

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    Kiranga,

    Acha kutoa mapovu alfajiri yote hii . Prof . Chachage had a point. If you revisit city by laws a perimeter fence is allowed to be solid only up to a height of 1.2 meters above the natural ground level and above that it has to be made of chain link or barbed wire. Hizo ngome I mean solid block/ concrete wall some as high as (4)foour meters are just unlawful structures which not only destroy the architectural Harmony but make them look like Maximum security facilities . For your information those massive walls have never and shall never protect you. As long as you don't do justice those walls shall always make the cocupiers more vulnerable .

    You can only subscribe to what is standard norm. Just remove those worry some structures surrounding properties. Rest be assured ufiisadi gotten wealth has nowhere to hide . Long live those words by Prof . Chachage . Wewe Kama msomi don't be so cheap and ask for the source just read books and publications acha uvivu. Somedoby said that if you want to hide something from Tanzania just or put it inside a book, and for your kids just hide your money in the Bible / Quran. Kiranga keep on reading whether one misquotes or not just use your brain if it makes sense.
     
  16. Baba V

    Baba V JF-Expert Member

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    I like the way you guys argue, you are worthy a title GTs, Kiranga i'm not only impressed by your ideas and points but mostly your language.big up!
     
  17. Baba V

    Baba V JF-Expert Member

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    Mapovu, !?you have a good point but the approach that precedes your comment makes you too subjective, let us argue! we are not of the same opinion, so let us be as objective as it needs us to be without bringing our emotions in the debate!
     
  18. TabletFellow

    TabletFellow JF-Expert Member

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    unakandya nini unajivu nini.... pambFff kweli. do you context ya kauli ya xhachage? au ndio ule upuzi wa kukurupuka kama kawaida yako?

    ati gross oversimplification... and then unafanya hayohayo...
     
  19. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Nimefanya hayohayo wapi? Labda nami naweza kujifunza, mara zote ni tayari kujifunza ninapopotoka.
     
  20. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Mpaka hapo ushajionyesha kwamba hufikirii zaidi ya horizon ya macho yako. Alfajiri ya wapi katika zama hizi ambazo jua halizami kwenye mtandao?

    Wewe hata hujanipa source ya kuonesha kama kweli Prof. Chachage alisema haya kweli au muhuni mmoja tu kaamua kutuchezea akili hapa kwa kumpa maneno ambayo hata hajayasema, unataka kuanza ku quote by laws za urefu wa ukuta ulivyotakiwa kuwa?

    Wakati hata hiyo quote aliyosakiziwa Prof Chachage haijataja ukuta mrefu na geti kubwa vinaanzia mita ngapi?

    Unacheza wewe.

    Halafu jifunze kuandika sentensi nyoofu basi, maana unafanya watu watumie uzoefu kuliko inavyotakiwa. Naweza ku quote unavyoandika kama mfano lakini naku sale.

    Shule umesoma wapi? Na mwaka gani?
     
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