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Opposing without giving solutions

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Sungi, Aug 19, 2009.

  1. Sungi

    Sungi Senior Member

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    I get so frustrated when individuals tend to oppose policies without giving alternatives to a proposed policy. Opposing without giving alternatives is a syndrome in Tanzania politics as in many other states. Just saying NO without stating what should be done in the absence of what is tabled is a sign of political immaturity.
     
  2. Bluray

    Bluray JF-Expert Member

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    Are you saying that, if someone is doing something wrong, and you know that the way that this process is done is wrong, but you don't have the right solution, you should not say anything to oppose the wrong way?

    Isn't opposing a wrong way eliminating one way of doing things wrong?

    Sometimes you don't have to know right to know wrong, should you be quiet to point out wrong because you don't know right?
     
  3. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

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    You are breaking the very law you are trying accuse others of breaking. You are opposing people who don't propose solutions while u urself are not proposing solutions to the people who don't propose solutions.
     
  4. A

    AmaniGK JF-Expert Member

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    Na bado utapata frustration sana ndugu yangu... Kuna maswali yenye majibu ya hapo kwa hapo lakni maswali mengine yanahitaji njia ndefu kuweza kulifikia jibu
     
  5. Limbani

    Limbani JF-Expert Member

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    Naomba niwe mswahili, mfano mtu anaua na ninamkataza asiue maana yake si nimempa alternative ya kutoua!?
    Sielewe mtoa hoja anataka nn, lakn kupinga maovu maana yake unataka mema!!
    Anahitaji nn tumwambie mwizi? Kwanza apewe adhabu (yaani kifungo) then huko atajifunza na kupewa mbadala wa kosa lake
     
  6. Mag3

    Mag3 JF Gold Member

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    I also get so frustrated with individuals like Sungi who will support policies even when they know the proposed policies are wrong. It is this kind of mentality that best explains why our beautiful country is stuck in this senseless quagmire. If one is leading you down a path that you definitely know leads to a dead end, do you just follow blindly like you are some kind of zombie ?

    Good learning is achieved by adding to ones stock day by day but better learning demands subtracting from the same stock. With people like Sungi, it will take us a generation to pull out of the muck we are stuck in and that's a pity ! The most sad thing is that the people who are leading us there will always find more Sungis to rely on for support by trying to sell this ridiculous line of thinking - I am mad !
     
  7. Mzuvendi

    Mzuvendi JF-Expert Member

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    Suppose the status quo is perfectly fine, why shouldn't one opposed without giving alternatives to a proposed policy?
     
  8. Juma Contena

    Juma Contena JF-Expert Member

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    expect a lot of that term status quo. and lots of, time being heroes right now they have SS.

    some also have guarantees of taking over the next election but the terms of that victory is yet to be disclosed, supposely its a secret. the political conversations here are full of puzzles so you fill the grids. and if your like me cant figure it out 'pole'.

    but one thing you can guarantee is moaners, yes i know it is tiresome. people will tell you 'dola' this and later come up and tell you it aint gonna, work just twisting their own words.

    we, subiri ila utacheka sana if you just observe, kuna watu wana madongo utacheka mwenyewe if you dont believe follow the post inayosema sita akuomba msamaha page one and two yaani nikifikiri tu naanza ku-smile.
     
  9. Sungi

    Sungi Senior Member

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    I like such kind of debates, especially when they are so personally addressed. The broader point I was attempting to make in my reasoned comment is the hypocrisy that we see from people just because they are not in policy decision making positions. Let me cite some few examples to illustrate my point. Many in this forum have raised issues on the Speaker's performance in Parliament, most criticizing the way he is running parliament vis-a-vis ousting out MPs who are allegedly corrupt or who are involved in white collar crimes. What would you have done as Speaker "Mag 3" who does not dares use his real name? The use of your alias speaks so much of your character and demeanor. CCM will continue forming a government in my beloved country because the opposing parties are not providing solutions to the problems that ordinary Tanzanians are facing everyday. At least CCM has provided solutions since its formation in 1977. If we want to bring real changes to our economy and the standard of living of mwanakijiji in my village we ought to be proposing solutions and not just saying NO and coming up with reports that are neither fully researched nor substantiated with facts on the ground just for the sake of showing "kaopposition".
     
  10. Mag3

    Mag3 JF Gold Member

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    I have tried but I cant make head or tail of what you are talking about:confused:

    O.K, so Sungi is your real name - fine, now from your observation what exactly have you learnt about
    1. My character
    2. My demeanor - though I must admit I have no idea how this comes in.

    By the way, was your post only meant for those who, according to your misconstrued belief, use only names acceptable to you ?

    Oh dear, what planet do you live in and after 32 years what solutions are you talking about.
    This ?[​IMG] or this [​IMG]

    That wont happen under CCM's watch - the present constitution is crafted to ensure that. All efforts to have a constitution that will ensure justice for all before the law have been snubbed by the status quo. We are not in a true democracy but the kind of Party Dictatorship that closes all doors to development and prosperity by embracing corruption as a necessary evil for it to survive. CCM is armed to the tooth to defend this and it may take an uprising to put things right - take my word.
    CCM thrives in corruption, period.
     
  11. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

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    Do these people really need some proposals of how to do things better? Didn't they go to the same schools and colleges that some of us have attended? Don't they have access to information like the rest of us? Isn't it true that some of these very people who are policy makers went to school in some of the best schools in the world?

    Why do you think our proposals will make sense to them?

    On the other hand, we have been proposing all kinds of solutions to our problems guess what.. we can't make them read or even give them a second look. There is nothing anybody can do to make our proposals agreeable to them. If they have any neurons left in their brains they can come to JF and take a week long crash course.. free of charge!
     
  12. Bongolander

    Bongolander JF-Expert Member

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    Sungi you are very frustrating. We have always proposed to them, in order for our country to move forward and improve life of Mwanakijiji in the vilage, corrpution has to stop and they should stop their corrupt practices and embezzelment of public funds. Isn't this alternative policy and proposal? Have they take it in? NO,

    What they are doing is rejecting this proposal and strenghting they defence on their policies. What more alternatives should we offer, if the main proposal is rejected?.
     
  13. Companero

    Companero Platinum Member

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    Mwambie huyo. Nadhani amesahau kuwa wao ni wagonjwa wa ule ugonjwa wa Margareth Thatcher. Unaitwa TINA - There is No Alternative (Hakuna Mbadala). Wao wanadhani hakuna Mbadala wa Sera na Ilani zao. Hivyo wanadhani watu wanapinga tu bila kutoa sera na ilani mbadala. Kwani ule Waraka ule sio Mkukuta mbadala?
     
  14. Sungi

    Sungi Senior Member

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    This is getting interesting. I am not implying that CCM as a party does not have challenges, it surely has and if this party wants to survive politically its needs to reform itself. CCM has a record of doing that - reforming itself. CCM's credibility in "self correction" has been emulated by other strong political parties, such as the African National Congress (ANC) in South Africa.

    NOW, let me respond to your "talking points" in wholesome;
    The problem of poverty is not unique to our countries, there are many other factors that contribute to this predicament. It is really dishonest to blame CCM for our poverty. Quoting Kennedy's (JFK) famous quote, "Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country". The reason why mwanakijiji is poor is you and me. Why not go back to your village and run civic awareness forums, educate the mwanakijiji on the constitution, their basic human rights, and rights as a citizen of Tanzania. A mwanakijiji cannot claim rights they do not know. This may be a philosophical argument that may not be well grasped, I would submit.
    Citing JFK again, "If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich". Stop blaming, give solutions, run for office, and/or give productive solutions to change the status quo ... hope you do not create your own "status quo" when in office ...
     
  15. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

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    Sungi what solutions are you proposing and how u gonna make those proposals

    a. considered
    b. accepted
    c. implimented

    ?
     
  16. M

    Mkandara Verified User

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    Mhnnnn! ama kweli - NDIVYO TULIVYO!
    Hivi kweli tumemsoma vizuri mwandishi wa mada hii?..Binafsi sioni kosa zaidi ya sisi kuchemsha kwani uwanja huu wa JF ni uwanja wa vichwa vinavyotambua tofauti kati ya NDIVYO TULIVYO na NDIVYO WALIVYO..

    Kusema kweli nilitegemea hoja nzito ktk swala hili kuliko kumshambulia mtoa mada kwani ktk mjadala huu wa Kisiasa ni busara kupinga POLICY ukiwa na solution dhidi ya ile unayopinga.
    Hata kama huna solution kama mnavyodhania lakini sioni ndani kabisa ikiwa kweli mtu utapinga Policy fulani kwa sababu tu unaona ubaya wake lakini huwezi kutoa solution iliyo bora zaidi..

    Pengine hata mimi sina kuelewa kwa mapana ya hoja hii lakini ningependa sana kuelewa Policy yoyote ambayo mnaifikiria ni wrong lakini mnashindwa kupata the right one kifikra. Laa sivyo sioni kabisa sababu ya kuwa na mjadala ambao watu tunapinga policies mbaya na wrong lakini hatuna solution..Naomba kupewa mfano mdogo kunitoa ktk kiza hiki!
     
  17. Augustine Moshi

    Augustine Moshi JF-Expert Member

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    Kwani tatizo ni siasa za CCM? Ni utendaji mbovu, ufisadi (uporaji wa mali ya umma, wizi, rushwa, hongo, uvivu, uzembe, …) na kuhodhi madaraka.

    Tumewaambia waache kuwekeana mikataba ya siri na wawekezaji, na badala yake watafufute kibali cha Bunge kwanza, wakakataa.

    Tumewaambia kila Mtanzania awe na uhuru wa kugombea uongozi hata kama si mpenzi wa chama cha siasa, wakakataa.

    Tumewaambia hatuna uwezo wala hatuhitaji kuwa na mawaziri wengi, wakakataa na kutubandika msalaba wa mawaziri 60.

    Tumewaambia ili kuleta ufanisi mikoani, viongozi wote wa kisiasa, ikiwa ni pamoja na wakuu wa mikoa na wa wilaya wachaguliwe na wananchi wenyewe, wakakataa. Wameendelea kutubandika marafiki na wapenzi wao wawe wakuu wetu.

    No, Sungi, CCM itself has become the problem. What we need now is not to propose more solutions but to get rid of the problem.
     
  18. Sungi

    Sungi Senior Member

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    Angalau tunaanza kupata maoni endelevu hapa. Kilichotokea hapa ni mashambulizi bila ya maoni endelevu, haswa nililokuwa nimelenga kwenye maada niliyotoa mwanzoni (ili nithibitishe theory yangu). Kama tunataka kubadilisha jinsi siasa zetu zinavyoendeshwa ni kwa "bottom-up" strategy na sio juu-chini. Watu wetu wengi wapo kizani kwenye mambo mengi ya kila siku yanayoathiri maisha yao na ndio sababu hawa watu wanaoingia madarakani wanaweza kufanya yote wanayofanya, wizi, n.k. Kumbukeni, Mwalimu aliamua kujiuzulu uwaziri mkuu ili arudi "chini" kuelimisha umma wa watanganyika. Tumuelemishe mwanakijiji atambue haki yake ili aweze kuisimamia kidete.
     
  19. Sungi

    Sungi Senior Member

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    Sio CCM bali baadhi ya wanachama wake ambao hawana "love for country" ila "self", ambao wanatakiwa kufukuzwa chamani!
     
  20. M

    Mkandara Verified User

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    Sungi,
    Mkuu wangu kidogo unakosea hapa.. Mambo mengi yaliyomo humu JF hayahusiani wala kutokana na NCHI yetu..Hakuna mtu anayetegemea tanzania imfikishe mahala ila sisi ndio tutaijenga Tanzania ya kesho!..

    Kwa mfano maneno ya Kennedy kuhusiana na hotuba yake "Ask not what the Country can do for You' yana mapana zaidi ya policies. Na sidhani kama Mwanakijiji au mtu yeyote humu anauliza nchi yake itamfanyia kitu gani ila wanazungumzia empty promises za chama tawala. Hivyo Country na Policies za chama tawala ni vitu viwili tofauti kabisa.

    Hotuba ya Kennedy ilikuwa kuhamasisha wananchi kwamba US ni nchi yenye Opportunity kibao na policies zake zilikuwa zikiwezesha sera na ahadi ambazo zilimpa kura (Kennedy) hivyo aliwataka wananchi kujiunga naye kuijenga nchi.. kwa maana nyingine wananchi wawe na imani na dira, policies na sera zake, kilichobakia ni nguvu zao wananchi wenyewe kuiendeleza nchi na masiha yao wenyewe.

    Hivyo mkuu wangu tusichukulie hotuba kama hizi juu juu tu kwani huwezi kuitendea haki nchi yako ikiwa policies zake zinawafunga wananchi. Maneno kama ya Kennedy hata Mugabe au Kim wa North Korea anaweza kuyatumia kwa kutazama malengo yavyama vyao na ikaleta maana, lakini ukweli unabakia kuwa policies zilizopo nchi hizo haziwezi kabisa kutimiza malengo yanayokusudiwa vichwani mwa wananchi...ndipo majukwaa kama haya huingia kati kuchambua makosa ya Policies na sio mazingira ya nchi waliyomo.
    Sijui kama umenipata!
     
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