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Obama ni Socialist au Liberal Conservative??

Discussion in 'International Forum' started by Josh Michael, Sep 18, 2009.

  1. Josh Michael

    Josh Michael JF-Expert Member

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    Kwa Kipindi karibu miezi kadhaa, Wamerikani wengi sana wamekuwa wanahoji kwamba Obama achane na Mpango wa Kuboresha sekta ya afya,

    Karibu Robo tatu nzima ya watu wamerikani hawana social health plan ya afya hivyo hulazimika wakati mwngine kwenda Canada kwa ajili ya kununua dawa kwa bei ya chini.
    Kutokana na Mpango wa Obama wa kuboresha mipango anataka utajiri wa Wamerikani utolewa na huduma ya afya ipatikane kwa ajili ya watu wote. Hivi Majuzi kulikuwa na maandamamo makubwa sana katika jiji la Washington DC. Na baadhi ya watu wanasema kuwa Obama ni Socialist.. Je Wadau hii ni kweli?? Je Mipango ya Obama inafanana na Mipango ya Jk Tanzania?? Je JK akiongea na Obama Mawazo yao yanaweza kuendana au kutofautiana sana?? Je Jk anaweza kuiga mipango endelevu kwa ajili ya Taifa la Tanzania?? Je tutaendelea kukumbatia mifumo ya Capitalist ambayo Obama Ameamua kuachana nayo??
     
  2. Chapakazi

    Chapakazi JF-Expert Member

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    unajua maana ya kuwa liberal? Liberalism ilianza in Europe and was a movement against the power of the state. Liberals wanataka individual freedom, hivyo wanaamini a state should be kept away from interference of the autonomous of an individual. Hivyo unaposema Health Care isimamiwe na Serikali, in a sense unakuwa sio true liberalist or a conservative. Lakini overtime...kumekuwa na matawi mbalimbali ya liberalism. Na hii imetokana na hali halisi ya mwanadamu (nature ya ubahili) and the need to live in a community/society. Hivyo basi proposal ya Obama, while it moves America from a true liberal state, aka true capitalist, it will serve it's people better by offering affordable health insurance. Hivyo nadhani yeye yupo katika wingo wa kushoto wa liberals, lakini hajafikia kuwa a socialist.
     
  3. Josh Michael

    Josh Michael JF-Expert Member

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    Kuna Makundi ya watu mbalimbali wanalalamika kuwa Obama anatawanya utajiri kwa walio wengi.. sasa hapa ndio chanzo chake kinaanza na kusema Obama ni Socialist is not pure socialist
     
  4. M

    Mkandara Verified User

    #4
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    Wakuu ebu nambieni kitu kimoja.. Canada na UK kuna vyama vya Conservative... as a fact canada inaongozwa na chama cha Conseravtive lakini huduma za Afya na Education ni bure.. Je, mnataka kunambia Canada na UK ni nchi za kisoshalist?..
     
  5. J

    Jasusi JF-Expert Member

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    JK anaonekana kudandia treni la conservative capitalism. Anajali zaidi maslahi ya wawekezaji kuliko maslahi ya wakulima na wafanyikazi wa Tanzania. Ndiyo maana nasikia amekacha mkutano utakaofanyika Venezuela chini ya Chavez kwa sababu hataki kuonekana kwa maswahiba wake akiwa kwenye circles za "radicals."
     
  6. Josh Michael

    Josh Michael JF-Expert Member

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    Hawezi kukaa na mezaa moja na mtu ambaye anaona Taifa la Venezuela nilitafunwa na America na hivyo Chavez ni Extremist Socialist na very radical. Hivyo Nakubaliana Mkandala kuhusu juu ya Canada kuwa mfumo mzuri sana wa utoaji wa huduma wa afya na sio America
     
  7. Josh Michael

    Josh Michael JF-Expert Member

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    Ni kweli Kabisa Chama cha Waziri mkuu wa Harper vinaongozwa na vyama tofauti sana, na pia mfumo wa afya upo Imara kwa miaka nenda rudi na kuona watu wengi wanapata huduma ya afya nzuri.
     
  8. The Boss

    The Boss JF-Expert Member

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    Yaani jk na obama wanaweza kulinganishwa?????????no wonder
    hii nchi iko kama imerogwa??????maana hata sisi wananchi tunatumia mda mwingi kuzungumza pumba na fantassy,
    jk ni rais wa nchi yenye ukubwa wa uchumi wa dola 10.bilioni.ambazo hazifiki hata ten percent ya kampuni ya coca cola.
    Wakati obama ni raisi wa nchi yenye makampuni yenye ukubwa wa cocacola na zaidi ,zaidi ya makampuni elfu moja.
    Hivi nyinyi humu ndani mna nini?????day dreaming???
     
  9. Josh Michael

    Josh Michael JF-Expert Member

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    Hapana Tanzania hakuna watu ambao wanajua thamani ya utajiri wa Taifa la Tanzania Lote, hivyo ndio maana hata Ben Mkapa alimwalika De Soto yule Mchumi aje kupiga tathimini kuhusu utajiri wa Tanzania, Kama kweli kila kitu kikiwa wazi Taifa la Tanzania Lina utajiri mkubwa ukiweka kwa thamani ya pesa kama Wamerikani,. Hivyo Tanzania ni Tajiri ila Watu wao ni Maskini na Serikali ni Maskini wa Mawazo
     
  10. Mtu wa Pwani

    Mtu wa Pwani JF-Expert Member

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    obama ameanza kuprove failure wazungu wanajuta kuchagua sokwe na kumuweka ikule wanasema dog is dog although it wear a gold
     
  11. Josh Michael

    Josh Michael JF-Expert Member

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    hahahah, Ebo. Leo nilikuwa natazama Sky news wanasema kuwa anasema vibaya sana kuhusu Races issue in America. Sasa wewe unanikumbusha mengi sana kipindi cha wakati nipo chuo hapa America
     
  12. Chapakazi

    Chapakazi JF-Expert Member

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    Kwani wamarekani wanaelewa hili? Hapa ndipo Reps wanapumbaza watu. Ni kweli itabidi kila mtu alipie through taxes. Na hivyo ndo linakuja swali kwa nini nilipie tax kwa wewe kwenda kutibiwa? Yani Marekani walikuwa wanajaribu ku-maintain ile hali ya pure liberal. Ndo maana wao hawataki kuwe na state interference kwenye kitu chochote hata mabenki. Sasa juzi baada ya the banking collapse ndo wamegundua kuwa tunahitaji regulations. But this is contrary to the American Dream image.

    Sasa Obama amefail namna gani hapa ndugu yangu?
    Ni ujinga wa Wamerakani wengi huu. Msidhani kuwa wamerakani ni watu waelewa sana. Unajua ukishakuwa na kundi kubwa la watu, ni rahisi sana kuwapumbaza. Na hichi ndicho republicans wanafanya. Mmerakani wa kawaida hajui hata Uingereza ipo wapi. Hata ukimuuliza kuhusu hali ya Canada hajui. Republican ni chama kinachokuwa supported na hizi insurance companies na ndo maana wanataka hali ibake pale pale. Nadhani ukiangalia historia ya watu waliojaribu kubadilisha health care marekani, utakuta ni Democrats. Politcs za marekani zipo interesting sana. Wao wanatumia lobbying kwa wingi sana. Lobbying ni pale interested parties wanapojaribu kupata favours kutoka kwa members of the house au chama in return for something else. hiyo inaweza ikawa kuwapa pesa wakati wa uchaguzi, vacation, etc. Ndo hali halisi sana. Ndo maana wakati Barack anaingia ikulu, alikataza wafanyakazi wake kujihusisha na lobbying ya aina yeyote.
     
  13. jmushi1

    jmushi1 JF-Expert Member

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    Mtoto a Liberal is simply somebody who favors tolorence or open mindnedness na mojawapo ya sifa zake ni kuwa progressive politically or socially and also generous.Development of personal freedom and social progress ndiyo basic concern ya filosofia ya liberalism.
     
  14. H

    Hofstede JF-Expert Member

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    Nafikiri wewe ndiyo una mtazamo huo, hao wanoandamana na kumpinga si miongoni mwa waliomchagua Obama. Obama alikampeni kwenye "Universal healthcare" theme. Kama Wamarekani walikuwa hawataki hiyo universal healthcare wasingemchagua.

    Nina maana kuwa wanaompiga Obama ni minority bigotry kama wewe unayemuita binadamu Sokwe, by the way sokwe's genes ni 99.99% human being, so hata wewe na wapingaji pia ni Sokwe. Tofauti ni kuwa Sokwe Obama IQ yake ipo juu kuliko Sokwe ninyi mnaompinga.

    Maana ukiangalia kwa undani kupinga huku si lolote bali ni ku-deny chance ya kumfanya Obama aonekane successful wakati ninyi mnamawazo kuwa hawezi. Your are afraid of being proven wrong.

    Walianza na stimulus package, ikapita na sasa uchumi unaimarika wamefyata mikia, sasa wanatarget H.R 3200 nayo itapita na Racists wote wanaprove failure. If you can't beat him why not join him even if he's a bright Sokwe than you?.

    They are now targeting advisors who make him successful, that their posts are not constitutional for Obama, while during Bush admin they were constitutional.

    GOP are afraid that, they may loose even more seats next year that's why they are mad as hell.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2009
  15. Josh Michael

    Josh Michael JF-Expert Member

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    Ni kweli kabisa hiyo ndio liberal view thought ya watu wengi sana na pia itakuwa hivyo kutokana na mazingira
     
  16. Chapakazi

    Chapakazi JF-Expert Member

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    liberal wako more concerned na personal freedom. Kwani idea ya bill of rights imetoka kwenye ideology gani? Si classcial liberalism, ambao wako more concerned na negative rights. Meaning ku-keep the state away. Ndo maana ukiangalia Bills of Rights nyingi, rights zao ziko expressed in a negative manner. Example ya hawa ni kina Milton Freidman ambao pia walikuwa wachumi waliosukuma ideologies za capitalism.
    Obama yeye ni social liberalist, yani bado wanaamini in individual freedom but agreed to the need of state interference katika kutoa certain services. Lakini hawa wanaosema kuwa Obama ni socialists wamekosea. Na ndio maana nasema ni watu wengi wasiojua kutofautisha hizi ideologies.
    Nadhani...narudia tena NADHANI hii kusema mtu aliye liberal ni mtu aliye open-minded ni definition iliyokuja kupewa hii ideology badae. But was not the original stand. Wao walikuja as an opposition to the State power hasa wakati wa Wafalme bara la Ulaya. It arised from the middle-class, hasa wafanya biashara na ndo maana capitalism iko linked nao.
    To give you an example: inatoka wikipedia (not the best source but will do for now)

    Liberal conservatism
    is a variant of political [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism"]conservatism[/ame] which incorporates [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism"]liberal[/ame] elements. As "conservatism" and "liberalism" have had different meanings over time and across countries, the term "liberal conservatism" has been used in quite different senses. In general, it has carried two broad meanings.

    hivyo basi mh, hii kuitwa liberal conservative ambayo ni opposite ya hicho ulichosema juu ya kuwa open-minded/tolorent/nk ni term inasiyo-capture the true meaning of a liberal. Yani ukiwa liberal, bado unaweza kuwa upande wa kulia au kushoto. Kwa hiyo mtu anaweza kuwa a liberal, lakini asiwe open-minded/tolorent/nk. Kwa mfano Republicans katika hili swala la Health.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2009
  17. jmushi1

    jmushi1 JF-Expert Member

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    Liberal conservative ni term inayotumika kuwa define wale wanaokubaliana na baadhi ya mielekeo ya both liberal and conservative idealism.Wale wanaowaletea shida Democrats ni wale conservative democrats ambao wao never consider themselves as liberals...Hata hivyo ukumbuke kuwa kimsingi chama cha democrat kina misingi ya uliberal only ni kwasababu over time kuna issues ambazo zimekuwa zikidetermine siasa za marekani na hivyo kupelekea hao wenye kujiita wenye misimamo ya kati kuchaguliwa zaidi,issue ambazo zinaangukia kwenye mipaka ya conseravtisim ama liberalism,na ambazo zimepelekea miganyiko alongsde those lines ni issues kama abortion,gay rights,war with the islamists,this time public health care and so forth.
     
  18. Josh Michael

    Josh Michael JF-Expert Member

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    nAKUBALIANA SANA na wewe mkuu wangu, Kwa hiyo Obama na sere zake yupo upate gani kati ya pande hizo
     
  19. Cynic

    Cynic JF-Expert Member

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    Hii ndiyo picha wanaojaribu ku'portray' Fox News, Limbaugh, na wenzao. Kama ndiyo source zako za info., of course conclusion itakuwa ndo hii.
     
  20. jmushi1

    jmushi1 JF-Expert Member

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    Anajaribu ku stay above the frey lakini anaonekana kukubaliana zaidi na ideas za liberals kwenye misimamo yake mingi,na ideas za liberals zinashabihiana sana na socialism kwa mfano public health care,the so called big government etc. Hata hivyo term "Socialism" Nayo imekuwa misused na wamerekani kwasababu ya kutoelewa kuwa elements za socialism always zimekuwepo ila hawajawahi kupactice full socialism na sidhani kama hiyo ndiyo nia ya Obama.Issue ya socialism imekuwa ikiwa hunt wamarekani through out their history especially pale serikali zao zilipoamua kuchukua maamuzi magumu mfano halisi ni medicare yenyewe na hata social security.
     
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