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Nyerere na Harakati za Ukombozi wa Bara la Afrika

Discussion in 'Great Thinkers' started by Sideeq, Oct 3, 2012.

  1. S

    Sideeq JF-Expert Member

    #1
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    Ningependa kujua ni sababu gani iliyomfanya Nyerere ajikite zaidi katika juhudi za ukombozi wa bara la Afrika kiasi cha kumfanya atumie muda mwingi, rasilimali za Taifa na maisha ya Watanzania huku ikijulikana wazi kuwa kama vile ambavyo Tanganyika ilipewa Uhuru pamoja na nchi nyingine kabla yake, hivyohivyo nchi nyingine zilizosalia zingepewa tu Uhuru wao wakati ukifika.

    Hivi kulikuwa na haja gani kwa Nyerere kujikita namna ile?

    Wakati nchi nyingine zikiona hakuna umuhimu wa kuwekeza nguvu nyingi kwenye ukombozi wa Afrika (mfano Wakenya) na kuwa bize katika kuimarisha Uchumi wao Nyerere alikuwa bize kwenye "ukombozi wa Afrika"!(usishangae sasa ni kwa nini Kenya imeipita Tanzania ambayo ilipata Uhuru kabla ya Kenya).

    Swali: hivi kweli Nyerere alikuwa ni mpigania Uhuru wa Bara la Afrika? au kuna vitu vingine nyuma ya pazia kama vile ambavyo inatajwa kuwa alikuwa akitumiwa kuwadhibiti wapigania Uhuru?

    Tafadhali wajuvyi wa haya masuali nijuzeni.

    ======
    Moderator:

    Tunapendekeza msomaji kusoma matundiko haya:

    http://www.jamiiforums.com/jukwaa-la-elimu-education-forum/20575-nyerere-and-africa-end-of-an-era.html

    http://www.jamiiforums.com/jukwaa-la-siasa/148272-the-heart-of-africa-interview-with-julius-nyerere-on-anti-colonialism.html

    http://www.jamiiforums.com/jukwaa-la-siasa/43519-julius-k-nyerere-unsung-hero-of-africa-who-made-nelson-mandela.html
     
  2. Barubaru

    Barubaru JF-Expert Member

    #2
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    Hakika ni suala mujarabu sana.

    Kwani kwa mtu makini yoyote yule asingeweza kukubali na kuacha watoto wake wanakufa njaa na kuwa mafukara wakti rasilimali zake zote anazitumia kujenga nyuma za jirani zake. HILO HALIINGII AKILINI HATA KIDOGO.

    Kifupi naweza kusema NYERERE alipenda sana kujijenga BINAFSI kisiasa na kupenda kusifiwa na wazungu lakin KIUCHUMI ndio chanzo kikuu kwa nchi yake kuwa masikini. KWANI alijenga mifumo mibovu sana kiuchumi.

    Poleni sana
     
  3. T

    TATOO Senior Member

    #3
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    sasa kama mnajua mapungufu yake si mjenge huo uchumi nyie wajanja..kuliko nyerere
     
  4. O

    Omokora Nyangi Member

    #4
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    Kwanza nianze kwa kusema "muda mwingi, rasilmali nyingi na maisha ya watanzania" yalitumiwaje na Nyerere vibaya?
    1. Ni kweli Nyerere alitumia muda mwingi kushughulikia si tu matatizo ya Afrika bali hata ya Ulimwengu. Mfano alitetea sana Uchina kupata kura ya Veto katika UNO. Kadhalika alisaidia sana Vietnamu, Cuba na vinchi vingine vingi bila kupewa chochote. Kwa Nyerere, hapakuwa na rafiki wa kudumu au adui wa kudumu. Imani yake juu ua ubinadamu na utu ilipitiliza. Kwake suala la uonevu, dhuruma na ubaguzi lilizidi upeo wake wa uvumilivu ndio maana alijipambanua kama mpigania uhuru wa kweli.
    2. Pili si kweli kwamba Nyerere alitumia raslmali za nchi vibaya kwani hadi anang'atuka, aliiacha Tanzania ikiwa na viwanda zaidi ya 400, migodi ilikuwa haijamilikishwa kwa wageni, mbuga za wanyama, vitaru vya uwindaji, nk.
    3. Maisha ya watanzania hayakuwa mabaya km leo. Idadi ya vifo vinavyotokana na maradhi yanayotibika, ajali, njaa na majanga mengine yamechukua maisha ya watanzania wengi leo kuliko wakati wa Nyerere.
    Mwisho mwalimu Nyerere alitubu kwa watanzania kwamba "yapo mambo mema na mengine ya kijinga ambayo serikali yake iliwatenda watanzania. Hivyo tutafakari jambo hili kwa kina.

     
  5. m

    mamajack JF-Expert Member

    #5
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    Shida yetu sie watanzani ni wanafiki,mtu akisema ukweli wengi wanamwona wa ajabu,lakini ni kweli mwlm kuna mambo mengine aliyasisitiza hayakuwa na faida kwetu na sasa yanatug'harimu sana.
     
  6. zomba

    zomba JF-Expert Member

    #6
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    Nyerere alijikita pia katika kufanya kila njia kutenganisha nchi zingine za Afrika, mfano mzuri ni Nigeria, Biafra.
     
  7. Barubaru

    Barubaru JF-Expert Member

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    Kwa wanaijua Tanganyika vizuri na wachumi tunaamini kuwa 'in order to build something strong, it helps to start with BEST and POSSIBLE materials"

    Kwa kifupi kila kitu ni msingi kama msingi mbovu hakuna kinachoweza kumea. Sasa Tanganyika mlianza hapa ku lost uchumi wenu
    1. Azimio la Arusha
    2. Vijiji vya ujamaa.
    3. Siasa ni Kilimo.
    4. Vita vya Kagera.

    Haya ndio yalioleta anguko baya sana la uchumi wenu. Kwani alitaka mambo makubwa bila kuandaa kwanza wananchi wake.

    Poleni sana
     
  8. Nicholas

    Nicholas JF-Expert Member

    #8
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    NI udini tuu nakuponza.Wazungu wapi sasa?mabepari hawakumpenda, wayahudi hawkaumpenda kwani alifuta ubalozi wao hapa ili kujenga hoja zake dhidi ya ukandamizaji,alipata mfungamano kwa nchi za kiislam na za mashariki kuliko magharibi.Nyerere alipata msaada wa marekani pale alipohitaji chakula kwa ubabe zaidi.Kwani alitumia advantage ya kiongozi mkristu na kumshinikiza kwa maneno makali ya kuwafanya wajisikie vibaya kumwaga chakula wakati binadamu wanakufa njaa.

    Kwa ujumla alikuwa muumin wa ile imani kuwa huwezi kuwa huru majirani zao wakiwa hawapo huru au hawana amani.Na hilo lipo wazi kwani machafuko ya Somalia ,Burundi na Rwanda si tuu yameleta wakimbizi pia yameleta wanajeshi hadi ndani ya mipaka yetu.Mara nyingi kam si ubabe wetu Burundi wamekuwa wakipiga kelele kuwa waasi wanapeleka mashambulizi tokea upande wa TZ.Raia kule wanafanyiwa vitu vya ajabu hadi leo, mali zetu za misitu na wanyama zinachukuliwa na majangili wa hizi nchi.

    Barubaru usipende potosha watu, Nyerere alihofia kinachotokea leo chini ya dhaifu,Utayari wa nchi ki uwezo kusimamia zoezi la kuchimba hizi rasilimali na kuweza zipeleka soko la dunia kwa bei ya haki.Sasa hata baada ya miaka tunana uonacho leo.Ingekuweje kipindi ch auhuru wakati kila kitu kilikuwa kipya?
     
  9. Barubaru

    Barubaru JF-Expert Member

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    Tatizo lako ahali yangu ni kuwa unachambua sana KISIASA na sio KIUCHUMI.

    Kumbuka umasikini wenu hauhusiani kabisa na SIASA ZENU bali ni UCHUMI WENU. Jaribu kupambanua alifanya nini kuhakikisha uchumi wenu unajengeka na kuwa stable?
     
  10. Ndoa

    Ndoa JF-Expert Member

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    sera za nyrere za ndani na nje zimechangia sana kudidimiza uchumi wa tanzania. Nashangaa watu wanaomtukuza kama mungu mtu.
     
  11. Nicholas

    Nicholas JF-Expert Member

    #11
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    Uchumi upi usiotegemea vitu kama amani, uwezo wa kufanikisha vitu vihitajivyo mtaji na technology?Nyerere ana makosa yake kama watu wengine na aliyakubalia mwenyewe na mengine angea admit siku zinavyokwenda.

    Wewe kujikita katika kudai kuwa sijui wengine wapo kisiasa na wewe ndio kiuchumi ni kama kudai kuwa ktk business ya magari na si fuel kwa hiyo huhitaji jua vyema mambo ya fuel.Uchumi haupo independent kihivyo, ingawa mimi sikuongea kisiasa, ila wazi siasa nazo haziwezi achwa aktk uchumi wa nchi.Social Structure,technology, capital(human capital,cash ect), stress level ya watu , corruption, etc ni vitu vinavyoweza sababisha hasara au faida kwa nchi.
     
  12. Nicholas

    Nicholas JF-Expert Member

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    Ni execution tuu ya hizo strategies tuu ndio ilikuwa shida pamoja na upuuzi wa ujamaa. China wameanza siku nyingi sana kusaidia wengine, pia kwenda kinyume na mataifa mengine hata kipindi hawakuwa wametoka katka umasikini wa kutupa. Sasa hivi imekuwaje wapa perfect environment ya kufanikiwa katk nchi za dunia.

    Tanzania viongozi waiokuwepo hawakuchukua nafasi kupata vipaumbele ktk hizo nchi Nyerere alizikomboa kwa faida ya kujijenge kiuchumi na kisiasa duniani. Sasa hivi kuna nchi maadui tuliowaondoa wana urafiki kuliko sisi na hizo nchi.

    Hakuna tofauti kumlaumi Mkapa kuanzisha PCB,TRA, tume ya haki za binadamu etc na uovu unaotendwa na hizi idara.
     
  13. Lyimo

    Lyimo JF-Expert Member

    #13
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    Tusimsingizie mzee wa watu kwa kila lililotushinda.

    Ametoka madarakani 1985 miaka 27 iliyopita (baada ya kuiongoza Tanganyika/Tanzania kwa miaka 23 baada ya uhuru), tumerekebisha lipi zaidi ya kujenga mizizi ya kifisadi? Kwani ni yeye ndiye huwa anatupigia kura kuwachagua viongozi wabovu? Kwani ni yeye ndiye anayetukawia kanga, fulana na kofia?

    Nawaza kwa sauti tu.
     
  14. O

    Omokora Nyangi Member

    #14
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    Kwanza nianze kwa kusema "muda mwingi, rasilmali nyingi na maisha ya watanzania" yalitumiwaje na Nyerere vibaya?

    Ni kweli Nyerere alitumia muda mwingi kushughulikia si tu matatizo ya Afrika bali hata ya Ulimwengu. Mfano alitetea sana Uchina kupata kura ya Veto katika UNO. Kadhalika alisaidia sana Vietnam, Cuba na vinchi vingine vingi bila kupewa chochote.

    Kwa Nyerere, hapakuwa na rafiki wa kudumu au adui wa kudumu. Imani yake juu ya ubinadamu na utu ilipitiliza. Kwake suala la uonevu, dhulma na ubaguzi lilizidi upeo wake wa uvumilivu ndio maana alijipambanua kama mpigania uhuru wa kweli.
     
  15. Barubaru

    Barubaru JF-Expert Member

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    Nilipo Underline.

    Ina maana Nyerere aliitoa Tanganyika kwenye vita za wenyewe kwa wenyewe kama alivyofanya Kagame(Rwanda) au Museveni (Uganda).

    Tunaomba ufafanuzi wako hapo.

     
  16. Ngongo

    Ngongo JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu mamajack kati ya mambo mabovu kuwahi kufanywa na Nyerere hakuna la kuzidi muungano na Zanzibar.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 4, 2016
  17. Nicholas

    Nicholas JF-Expert Member

    #17
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    Sidhani kama mfano wako ni valid sana.

    Ila kukujibu ni kwamba amani na siasa za Nchi zilizounganishwa na policy ya nchi huwezi zikataa. Kwani uchumi wetu kufanywa kwa mitazamo ya kisiasa kuliko kiuchumi. Ndio maana tuna Tanasco ya namna Hii. Tuna office za serikali zinazochukua watu kisiasa zaidi. Na wafanya kazi wana siasa sana kiasi cha kumfanya kila ajaye akute upinzani sana kama atakuwa na utendandi makini.

    Nyerere hakutoa nchi katika vita vya wenyewe kwa wenyewe ila mazingira hayakuwa tofauti sana. Watu hawakuw ana common language, kiswahili kilikuwa kikijulikana sehemu chache sana. Pia alikuwa na watu wenye fikra zinazopingana sana. Ndio maana alipata upinzani sana na mara nyingine uhaini ulikuwa ni vitu vya mara kwa mara.

    Sijui wewe ulitegemea nini katika hili kikusaidie?
     
  18. Zakumi

    Zakumi JF-Expert Member

    #18
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    Tanzania was one of the very few countries in Africa that emerged with their national identities, language included. It's true that some Tanzanians didn't speak the language, but it was widespread and heavily used. So the use of common language wasn't an issue.

    Now with regard to fikra zinazopingana sana, I guess you are trying to rewrite history. There was no such thing in Tanzania. During his reign, Nyerere commanded respect from his subjects with easy. No other African leader, his contemporaries, had such luxury.

    So If we want to talk about failures, we need to come clean and reexamine our recent past with open eyes. For, Tanzania is well known for her big talks that aren't matched with actions and resources needed.
     
  19. Nicholas

    Nicholas JF-Expert Member

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    Okay, that was all well then.We had some parameters that could somehow identify us.Language was more visible but was not an absolute parameter.By that time almost every comrades with socialism in the pocket behaved in similar ways.Even our National Anthem isn`t as unique as unique as it should sound.At the core language is a big issue,without a common language there is need of more powerful protocols to bridge the differences.Misunderstanding is the charm for separation and an enemy of unity.

    Well Mwalimu commanded respect to many but not everyone and the remaining many weren't on his side .The latter many opposed him openly or secretly.Those acted openly some of them were tried for treason while others were neglected.Those who opposed him secretly are the ones who brought down lots of Nyerere programs while spreading the gospel of hypocrisy. Now we still have same people who are 100% hypocrites within our population.Mwalimu Charisma was beyond imaginations that's why he could pass lots of obstacles towards ana independent state of Tanzania.He managed to place himself within within religious,tribal, and zonal groups to an extent that they trusted him and appointed him as their representative in achieving a bigger course.

    Its only in this time that Tanzanians mind aren't that clear in their mind on certain issues regarding to mwalimu Nyerere, to our political direction, to our national culture, our positions in the word and Africa, our position among former and current comrades,to what is the position of Swahili compared with English in National interests .By far we ant talking the same language among ourselves.I don`t think its okay confusing Mwl. Charismatic Gifts with the role of "Common Understanding" in an area where the leader isn't that charismatic.You have to able to know when a team wins by a personal genius of a single player and when its a team work.All in all to have a winning team we should invest in team work rather a single star.We don't have Nyerere so now everything else should rely on well established principles and national culture.Nyerere himself admitted that with the current Constitution he had everything at his disposal to be a dictator.
     
  20. Zakumi

    Zakumi JF-Expert Member

    #20
    Oct 5, 2012
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    You are committing the same errors that some critics of African policy making have attributed to their theories. They think that just because language was a stumbling block in many parts of Africa, it should have had the same impact in Tanzania too. Or just because ethnic fault lines caused instability in Uganda, they should have caused instability in Tanzania as well. This is generalization.

    Certainly, there are many countries in Africa that have failed to overcome their divisions and establish national identities. However, Tanzania, Zambia or Ghana is none of them. Tanzania has every ingredient to prosper, but it lacks human capital. It lacks people who can formulate good policies and take actions to implement them accordingly. This has been our problem since Nyerere was at the helm. He was a skillful orator, not a technocrat.

    He failed not because people opposed him or because there was a language barrier. He failed because policy making isn’t science. It’s an art form which changes with time and generation. Unfortunately, when it comes to policy making, rather than being an artist, Nyerere was a mathematician or a clergy. He always approached his businesses of governing the country with the same mindsets and set of rules. That doesn’t work. For, people and their behaviors are indeterminist.

    Now concerning the position of Tanzania today, Tanzanians, especially the intelligentsia, are still in a shock. For many years, they used to believe that their country was a beacon of hope in Africa. They used to believe that the African world revolves around their beautify country, and what’s worse they used to believe that Ujamaa will eventually win.
    With a blink of an eye, they found out that we were in a wrong path, and we have catch up with rest. That isn’t easy, especially when you have technocrats who were nurtured to take orders.
     
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