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Nini kilitokea na nani alizima vita isitokee kati ya TANZANIA na KENYA?

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Historia' started by Leonard Robert, Jun 3, 2012.

  1. Leonard Robert

    Leonard Robert JF-Expert Member

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    kwanza heshima kwenu wakubwa na vijana wenzangu,
    kuna habari za kihistoria niwewahi kuzisikia lakini sikupata historia hiyo kwa kina na nimeona hapa kuna wenye uelewa mpana wa mambo yetu ya kihistoria hivyo basi nitapata majibu.

    Kutokana na vita baridi iliyoanza baada ya vita kuu ya dunia na kushika kasi miaka ya 1960s na 1970s na kuisha kabisa 1991
    vita hii ilikua ni kati ya capitalist block under U.S.A na communist block under U.S.S.R.. Vita hii ilisabisha pia nchi masikini kuchagua upande wa kujiunga..

    Kutokana na hali hiyo tayari Tanzania ikawa nchi ya ki socialist na kenye kicapitalist.. Lakini nchi nyingi Afrika walipata madhara ya hii vita,kwani nchi hizi zilipigana kwa niaba ya nchi pia na kutengana, kwa mfano socialist block ili support Angola na capitalist wakamsupport Savimbi muasi mwaka 1975 pia ata kipindi cha vita yetu na Uganda socialist walimuunga mkono idd Amini kwani mwl Nyerere alikuwa haeleweki upande wake..

    Sasa basi kutokana na hali hii ya kutofautiana kiideology za kufuata kati ya kenya na Tazania ilipelea matatizo na chokochoko zilizotaka kuzaa vita,inasemekana matusi na kejeri za waziwazi vilitokea sana, kwamba hata neno nyang'au lilitokana na chokochoko hizi..
    Wakati vita inakaribia kuanza ndipo kenya aliomba ushauri U.S.A na ndipo U.S.A alipoishauri kenya kutopigana vita kwani angeshindwa vita hiyo, kutokana na sababu zakijeshi kwamba ni rahisi kuipiga kenya kutokea Arusha.

    Naomba wenye uelewa kuhusu historia hii watueleze sisi vijana kilichoendelea na ukweli ni upi..
    Karibu wadau wa JF
     
  2. Leonard Robert

    Leonard Robert JF-Expert Member

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    nategemea wazee watatupa ukweli kwa walichokiona na kusikia.karibu
     
  3. Borakufa

    Borakufa JF-Expert Member

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    We vipi wakenya wanaopigwa na wake zao wanaweza vita kiasi walitaka kuingia vitani na tz! thubutu!! ebu nambie jeshi la kenya limeshiriki mkatika vita gani au ujasusi gani mbali ya huu wa somalia tena wanasaidiwa! kumbuga m7 alisema jeshi la kenya ni legelege!! ha ha ha!
     
  4. S

    Son of Alaska JF-Expert Member

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    Kenya haijawahi taka pigana na tanzania,vichwa kenya vinatambua madhara ya vita.vita ya tanzania na uganda iliicost sana tanzania-aftermath ya hii vita msoto ulikuwa mkubwa sana bongo na ninahisi ilirudisha maendeleo ya nchi kwa miaka 10 na bado hatuja recover.Vita ni silaha na logistics-sasa hapa we tanzanians will be found short
     
  5. u

    umsolopagaz Member

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    mkubwa...nilishasikia kitu kama hicho pia...lkn ktk "kusoma" kwangu nyaraka zinazotaarifu kumbukumbu za mahusiano yetu na ndugu zetu wa kenya, hakukuwahi kuwa na uhasama mkubwa uliosababisha hali ya nchi zetru hizi jirani kukabiliana kivita...kulikuwepo kutofautiana kimtazamo, na kiutendaji ktk masuala mengi ya kisiasa, na kiuchumi...lkn kiusalama kulikuwa bado na kiasi fulani cha maelewano na masikilizano..mfano, askari jeshi , marehemu ochuka, wa kenya alirudishwa kenya, baada ya kuhukumiwa kuingia tanzania pasina ruhusa ( akimkimbia baba moi baada ya kushindwa jaribio la kumpindua), na baadhi ya askari wa tanzania ambao walitoroka gereza la keko (walikokuwa wakishikiliwa kwa tuhuma za kula njama "kumjaribu" mwalimu), na kukimbilia kenya walirejeshwa tanzania pia...sehemu kubwa ya kumbukumbu inaonyesha viongozi wetu wakuu wa wakati huo, pamoja na tofauti zao ktk mambo mbalimbali, still wakiaminiana kiujirani, na kiusalama, (ukimuacha aliekuwa "mtawala wa kimitindo" wa uganda)...
     
  6. Leonard Robert

    Leonard Robert JF-Expert Member

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    mkuu nimekupata..
     
  7. Leonard Robert

    Leonard Robert JF-Expert Member

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    ni kweli vita ina hasara nyingi,lakini vita ya Uganda tulikua hatuna njia nyingine bali kupambana na adui yetu bila kujali cost,vivyo hivyo kwa wakenya kama wengeweza kupigana bila kujali cost na hasara za vita.
     
  8. Leonard Robert

    Leonard Robert JF-Expert Member

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    uwenda kipindi hicho jeshi lao lilikua imara
     
  9. UmkhontoweSizwe

    UmkhontoweSizwe JF-Expert Member

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    Sina kumbukumbu kama Tanzania imewahi kufikia hatua ya kutunishiana misuli kiasi hicho na Kenya. Wakati pekee ambapo nchi hizi mbili zilikuwa na tofauti kubwa ya kimtazamo ni wakati wa kuvunjika kwa Jumuia ya Africa Masharini. Huu ndio ulikuwa wakati wa hivyo vijembe vya "ole wenu nyang'au mzoga utakapomalizika", na vingine. Zaidi ya hilo labda wengine wanaweza kutujuza.
     
  10. Leonard Robert

    Leonard Robert JF-Expert Member

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    labda hii ni moja ya sababu za kuvunjika kwa E.A.C
     
  11. Inanambo

    Inanambo JF-Expert Member

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    nyakati hizo za miaka ya 70 tanzania tulijidai kuwa sisi tunafuata siasa ya ujamaa na kujitegemea hatuhitaji misaada kutoka nchi za magharibi. tukataifisha viwanda na mashamba makubwa ya wageni yaliyokuwa yamesalia. tukaishia kuvaa kata mbuga na kuvaa nguo za mifuko ya ngano iliyotoka marekani. mashamba hayo sasa hivi ni mapori na viwanda ni mahame. takaamua kuelekeza nguvu zetu na mawazo yetu kusini mwa afirka kama vile msumbiji, zimbabwe, namibia, angola na SA ambao walikuwa hawajapata uhuru. tukasahau kuwajibika ipasavyo katika jumuia ya afrika mashariki. Idi Amin akampindua obote akawa rais wa uganda. tukamtusi kwa nyimbo na Rais wetu alikataa kumtambua kama kiongozi wa nchi. kenya wakamtambua wakakaa naye meza moja wakati sisi tlikuwa hatuendi kwenye jamuia. kenya wakawa na mahusiano na nchi za magharibi tulizozikataa wakaendeleza viwanda na mashamba yao na hawakushugHulika na ukombozi wa nchi za kusini mwa afrika. kwa hiyo tanzania tukaanza kuwasema wakenya ni mabepari na mengineyo. wakenya wakayasikia hasa bwana mmoja alikuwa anaitwa NJONJO. Wakapata sababu ya kujiondoa kwenye Jumuia ya africa mashariki. wakachukua vinono vilvyokuwa mali ya wote wanajumuia. sisi hatukubaki na kitu ililkuwa kama kila nchi itachukua kilichoko nchini mwake including ndege za abiria. hivyo watanzania tukaanza kuwachukia wakenya. wakenya wakawafukuza watanzania wote waliokuwa huko kenya wakifanya kazi. yaani ikawa tu uhusiano si nzuri. kama sikosei mwaka 1981 kulitokea chokochoko ambazo nusura tupigane vita lakini sababu yake halisi sikumbuki. nafikiri kipindi hicho tungeisha kwa kuwa tulikuwa tuna MIEZI 18 YA SHIDA BAADA YA VITA NA UGANDA. Ilifika kipindi ukikutwa bongo una bidhaa kutoka kiwanda cha Kenya kama vile Golgate, Kimbo, Lifeboy, Imperial na OMO unapelekwa selo. Mipaka ilifungwa ila wachaga hasa wa Rombo walikuwa wanaenda KENYA kupitia njia za Panya. Kulikuwa na Redio moja ya Injili ilikuwa mashuhuri sana nyakati hizo kutujuza yanayotokea kati yetu na Kenya. Nashukuru yote hayo yaliisha na sasa tuko rafiki na Kenya.
     
  12. 1

    1954 JF-Expert Member

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    Mimi nawauliza wote imekuwaje hata mkafikiria kuwa eti Tanzania na Kenya kama waliwahi kutnishiana misuli. Inakuwaje mnafikiria vita tu? What is happening with you people?
     
  13. Ndahani

    Ndahani JF-Expert Member

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    Watu wanafaidika nini na kupigana vita?
     
  14. Leonard Robert

    Leonard Robert JF-Expert Member

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    Mzee Inanambo umenipa majibu hasa yanayoitajika.. Kwanza nimejua chokochoko zilianza miaka ya 1980s pia sisi uwenda ni wachokozi,kwani tulipata wivu baada ya kuachwa kiuchumi na wakenya pia wakenya walinufaika na wale tuliowaita maadui zetu..
    Na vita hii ingetokea hali ingekua mbaya mara dufu,kwani ile tu ya kenya ilitugharimu kama dola 500 milioni za kimarekani na yaliyotupata baada ya hapo ni hali ngumu ya maisha
    ningependa kujua hasa kauli ya mwl nyerere kuhusu chokochoko hizi kama kweli alikua tiyari kupigana vita hii
     
  15. TUMBIRI

    TUMBIRI JF-Expert Member

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    Inanambo na Leonard Robert
    I concur with you my Frined! Mimi nshasikia kwamba kuna kipindi kweli uhusiano kati ya Kenya na Tanzania haukuwa mzuri ila sikumbuki ni miaka gani. Na ilifika hatua majeshi yetu yalipelekwa pale NYANDOTO karibu na mpakani SIRARI. Nimeskia kwamba Wakenya walikuwa wanadai mpaka wao na Tanzania unaishia Mto KIRUMI. Maana yake nini? Maana yake ni kwamba TARIME na RORYA yote ni sehemu ya KENYA. Naskia walisuluhishana kwa mazungumzo na moja ya makubaliano ilikuwa ni kwamba Tanzania iondoe majeshi yake pale NYANDOTO.

    Hatimae ile kambi ilihamishiwa KYABAKALI na hadi sasa ipo pale.

    TUMBIRI (PhD, Hull University - UK),

    tumbiri@jamiiforums.com
     
  16. Leonard Robert

    Leonard Robert JF-Expert Member

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    tunataka kujua viongozi wetu walifanya nini kutatua matatizo au walituingizaje kwenye matatizo hayo..kumbuka hasara ilitupata kutokana na vita yatu na Uganda.. Ninani alitufikasha pale.
     
  17. Leonard Robert

    Leonard Robert JF-Expert Member

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    nakumbuka lile jeshi la Nyandoto limelalimikiwa sana na wakenya pia hali ya sirari haiko sawa kwani ni sehemu yenye mizengwe mingi wakati wa kuvuka kuelekea kenya
     
  18. Leonard Robert

    Leonard Robert JF-Expert Member

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    mkuu tumbiri na wadau wengine,
    kama na kenya walilamika Tarime na Rorya ni maeneo yao wakati huohuo na waganda walidai maeneo ya mtukura n.k ni maeneo yao, tatizo nilipi ni kweli haya maeneo ni yao tulitumia ubabe kuyachukua au walitaka kupora ardhi yetu?
     
  19. MNYISANZU

    MNYISANZU JF-Expert Member

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    Shida yenu kubwa ni kumchimba Baba wa Taifa kwa chuki zenu. Poor
     
  20. B

    BINARY NO JF-Expert Member

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    Mh mbona ata mie nshawahi kusikia kua Mombasa ni sehemu ya TANZANIA yakweli haya km inavyosemekana ziwa lote la NYASA ni mali ya malawi ata kuna mgogoro ulitaka kujadiliwa bungeni kua MALAWI wanataka kuchimba mafuta ktk ziwa bila knowlede ya TZ....pliz wanaofahamu watufahamishe
     
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