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Nguvu za Kijeshi Kanda ya Maziwa Makuu: Nafasi ya Tanzania.

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Kichuguu, May 17, 2008.

  1. Kichuguu

    Kichuguu Platinum Member

    #1
    May 17, 2008
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    Katika nchi za ukanda wa maziwa makuu, inaelekea kuwa nchi ya Tanzania imepoteza kabisa nguvu za kijeshi ilizokuwa nazo miaka ya sabini; inawezekana ni kwa sababu ya ufisadi wa wanasiasa wetu. Leo hii nchi inayoongoza kijeshi ni Rwanda, ikifuatiwa na Uganda, na kumalizia na Burundi. Tanzania na Kenya zinafuatia kutoka kwa mbali sana. Nimewahi kufuatilia kwa karibu sana data za kijeshi za nchi hizi ikiwa ni pamoja na aina ya silaha zilizopo, mafunzo na nidhamu ya askari, nikaona wazi kuwa Rwanda wako mbali sana. Ikitokea kuwa tumekorofishana nao kwa kweli sijui tutakimbilia wapi. Data hafifu zilizoko pale Wikipedia zinaonyesha kuwa Tanzania tunahitaji kujipanga upya kijeshi kwa kasi sana. Dunia ya maziwa matatu ina utata sana tusijejikuta tumeburuzwa na Rwanda kama wanavyofanya huko Kongo kutokana na raslimali nyingi tulizonazo.
     
  2. Gamba la Nyoka

    Gamba la Nyoka JF-Expert Member

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    duh, kwa hiyo katika maziwa makuu kijeshi Rwanda ni kama israel katika mashariki ya kati. ila ninadhani kwamba nguvu za kijeshi pia zinatokana na "strong political leadership plus good war stratergies", usidhani kuwa amiri jeshi mkuu legelege anaweza kuliongoza taifa kushinda vita ngumu, hata kama jeshi lake ni imara kiasi gani bado kuna kuyumba kutatokea. Cheki mfano wa winston churchill na hitler, hitler alikuwa mbabe na ana nguvu kubwa za kijeshi lakini hana busara, akapigwa na coalition forces.

    Ukicheki katika war stratergies, Vietnam jeshi duni lakini lenye mbinu kali liliwatoa kamasi jeshi la wamarekani pamoja na mavifaa yao mazito.

    cheki hata kajeshi kadogo ka hizbollah kalivyowatoa kamasi israeli katika ile summer war. ushindi wa hizbollah partly ulichangiwa na uongozi unaokubalika wa hassan nasrallah.

    na ule ushindi wetu wa vita vya kagera, ni vigumu kutenganisha uongozi wa mwalimu nyerere na ushindi wa vita ile, cha kujiuliza ni je viongozi ambao wanafeli kuthubutu kufanya maamuzi magumu ya kuwashughulikia watu wanaoitafuna nchi bila huruma, wataweza kweli kuwa na ujasiri wa kupambana na adui katili hadi tone la mwisho la damu yetu au ya adui, au ndo kwanza watakuwa wa kwanza kupanda ndege na kutoweka zao pindi mambo yatakapokuwa mshikemshike?
     
  3. Nemesis

    Nemesis JF-Expert Member

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    Nguvu za kijeshi za nini? tunatakia kufocus kwenye maendeleo na huduma za jamii, bajeti kubwa itengwe kwenye sekta za kilimo, afya, elimu, miundombinu, utawala bora na siyo jeshi. Japan waliamua kuachana na kuinvest kwenye jeshi badala yake wamewekeza kwenye uzalishaji hasa viwandani ndiyo maana sasa wapo katika nchi zilizoendelea.

    Hata hivyo jeshi letu si lelemama kama unavyosema, na hatuna sababu ya kuinvest jeshini kama ilivyo kwa Rwanda, Burundi, DRC, Uganda kwa sababu wapo vitani kila siku. Ubabe wa kijeshi hauna maana kwa mwananchi wa kawaida.
     
  4. Icadon

    Icadon JF-Expert Member

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    Lakini hii list si inaonyesha number of troops na budget sidhani kama imezungumzia maswala ya vifaa etc. Lakini ukweli unabaki kuwa Rwanda kwa sasa wanajisuka kisawa sawa kwenye nyanja zote za kiusalama na kiuchumi, sisi on the other hand hmmm!!!!
     
  5. Alai

    Alai Member

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    May 17, 2008
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    Usije ukaongea hivi tena. Hitler alipigwa na coalition forces. Sio jeshi la nchi mmoja. Na hizbollah na Israel usiseme. Usije ukaamini propaganda za Hizbollah kwamba walipiga Israel. Israel waliwacha hasara pale sana. Israel walitumia cluster bombs yenye itawauwa wa Lebanon miaka kama mia bado zijayo. Hizbollah ilifanya celebration ya bure. Na Rwanda na Uganda wamekuwa wakijiimarisha kijeshi sana. Mimi hapa Kenya nimeona juzi wanajeshi wetu wakipigana na waasi wa kundi la Sabaot land defence forces. Waliaanza vita vya scorched earth lakini imewachukuwa muda mrefu sana kuwamaliza hawa.

    Kuna mtandao moja inajulikaana kama janes.com ambayo inatoa data za kijeshi duniani. Angali vile uganda imejiimarisha ndege za Mig 29 kutoka Urusi. Jamani tuko mbali. Kenya na Tanzania tuko mbali

    www.wananchiforums.com
     
  6. Icadon

    Icadon JF-Expert Member

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    Naomba niende nje ya mada kidogo, lakini inahusiana na maswala ya jeshi especially miaka hiyo ya 70.
    katika pita pita yangu sehemu nimekutana na article moja katika kuisoma nimekuta hiki kipande....

    Operation Nó Górdio


    This was, moreover, one of the worst scenarios that the Portuguese faced. A rare exception to this line of thought were the plans for the invasion of Malawi in the case of the pro-Portuguese Hastings Banda was at risk.
    But in Lisbon, Marcello Caetano showed itself in favor of more decisive actions, nothing strange to the change of U.S. policy in relation to Portugal.

    In July and August of 1970 took place on Operation Nó Górdio, in the interior of Tanzania. 8,000 men backed by planes and helicopters in pursuit of FRELIMO, attacking and destroying their bases and turning the south of Tanzania, as described in the international press, "a small Vietnam in Africa".
     
  7. Ben Saanane

    Ben Saanane Verified User

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    Mkuu,Uganda wanajipanga mno.Na museveni ni mtu mwenye ubabe sana na pia ana uwezo wa kuongoza.Siku akiamua kuutumia vibaya uwezo wake patakua hapatoshi
     
  8. J

    JokaKuu Platinum Member

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    ..mimi nadhani tuliimarishe jeshi letu ktk vitengo vya uokoaji, uhandisi, utabibu etc etc.

    ..hao rwanda wakileta chokochoko tunaweza kuwadhibiti kwa kuwawekea vikwazo vya usafirishaji. we have to get Kenyans on board though.

    NB:

    ..ni aibu kubwa sana kwamba askari wetu alizama Comoro na mwili wake haujapatikana.
     
  9. Kichuguu

    Kichuguu Platinum Member

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    Mojawapo ya msingi wa kupambana na maradhi ya kuambukiza na kuhakikisha kuwa mapambanao hayo yanafanyika kwa kushirikisha majirani wote. Kwa mfano huwezi kupambana na maralia kwa kuondoa mazalio ya mbu kwa bila kuangalia kama jirani yako naye amefanya vivyo hivyo.

    Ni kutokana na msingi wa aina hiyo ndipo kunapokuwa na ulazima wa kuhakikisha kuwa pamoja na kuimarisha huduma za jamii, ni muhimu pia kuimarisha nguvu zetu za kijeshi sambaba na majirani zetu. Hapa siyo swala la ubabe wa kijeshi, bali ni uimara wa usalama wa Taifa. Unaweza kujenga huduma za jamii halafu jirani yako akatumia nguvu zake za kijeshi kukubomolea huduma hizo unazojenga, je utamfanya nini? Kwa mfano Amini alivunja kiwanda chetu cha sukari na daraja la pale Kagera; je bila kuwa na nguvu za kijeshi tungemfanya nini? Nchi zote zinazozungukwa na mataifa hostile huwa yanajijenga kijeshi hata kama hakuna vita kwa ajili ya usalama wao.

    Eneo letu lina nchi nyingi sana zenye vita kwa hiyo ni lazima na sisi wenyewe kuwa tuko tayari tayari kwa matukio ya aina hiyo. Nimeiangalia Rwanda kwa makini sana jinsi inavyojiimarisha kijeshi na jinsi walivyotumia jeshi lao kuvuruga amani kule Kongo kwa ajili ya madini. Kama waliweza kufanya hivyo Kongo, je wakitaka kufanya hivyo kwa Tanzania utawafanya nini kwa kutumia huduma za jamii tu bila kuwa na nguvu za kijeshi? Nina imani kuwa usalama wa Taifa unatakiwa uchukue nafasi ya kwanza sambaba na huduma nyinginezo za jamii. Swala la muhimu hapa ni jinsi tunavyopanga priorities zetu. Kwa muda mrefu priorities za nachi yetu zimekuwa kama za mwendawazimu; zisizokuwa na mwelekeo wa manufaa yoyote kitaifa.

    Tuliambiwa "Tahadhari Kabla ya Hatari" na "Mwenzako Akinyolewa, Wewe Tia Maji"
     
  10. Dua

    Dua JF-Expert Member

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    May 18, 2008
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    Kichuguu

    Karibu sana mzee. Naona ulipotea kidogo pole na mihangaiko ya maisha,

    Hawa viongozi kama Kikwete wamezoea kula vya bure hata siku moja hakuwahi kupata matatizo magumu katika maisha yao ndio sababu unaona anavyo-act. Huwezi leo hii ukajisahau na kuacha wavamizi kufanya watakalo, ipo siku tena karibu sana inakuja tutaondoa huu upuuzi wao. Jeshi ambalo halina nidhamu hatulitaki.
     
  11. K

    Kithuku JF-Expert Member

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    Nchi za Afrika Mashariki zinapaswa kushirikiana kiuchumi na kijamii badala ya kuanza kuhofiana kuhusu nguvu za kijeshi. Kwa ujumla tunayo mengi zaidi ya kupoteza katika kukorofishana kuliko chochote ambacho nchi yoyote itapata kwa kushinda vita dhidi ya jirani yake. Kwenye miaka ya mwisho ya 1980's (au early 1990's sikumbuki vizuri) palitokea ukorofi kidogo kati ya Kenya na Uganda, wakatishana na hata kupeleka majeshi mipakani. Museveni alikuwa amemaliza kushinda vita dhidi ya Tito Okello na kulisambaratisha lililokuwa jeshi la serikali, na alijiona jehi lake lina ubabe na nguvu kulinganisha na Kenya ambayo haikupata kuwa vitani namna hiyo. Moi, "mzee wa Nyayo" (ama "profesa wa siasa") akaamua kumchezea Museveni akili. Siku ileile Museveni aliposogeza majeshi yake mpakani, Moi akazuia bidhaa zote za Uganda zilizokuwa bandarini Mombasa na zilizokuwa njiani kwenda Uganda. Katika siku mbili tu, vituo vyote vya mafuta Uganda vikakaukiwa, kukaanza kuwa na foleni ndefu sana za kununua petroli, dizeli na mafuta ya taa! Kumbe hata majeshi yaliyokuwa yanatumika kutishia Kenya yalikuwa yanategemea mafuta, madawa, na mahitaji mengine ambayo hupitia Kenya kwenda Uganda! Siku ya tatu Museveni akajibu mapigo kwa kuzima umeme kwenye bwawa lake la Owen Falls, lakini Moi akasema atatumia jenereta, na ikaanza kutumika Ikulu ya Nairobi na maeneo mengine. Kabla ya kupita wiki moja ya vikwazo, Museveni aliomba mazungumzo, na tangu siku hiyo ni utulivu hadi leo! Kwa ujumla nchi zetu hizi zinategemeana kwa mengi, mambo ya vita na kutishiana majeshi hayatusaidii chochote.
     
  12. Bongolander

    Bongolander JF-Expert Member

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    Wikipedia sio source nzuri ya information. NI afadhari mara 100 www.globalsecurity.com kuliko wikipedia. Mpaka sasa hivi nchi ambayo naweza kusema inaweza kuisumbua Tanzania kijeshi kwenye eneo la maziwa makuu ni Kenya. Lakini vile vile kwa mwelekeo uliopo sasa kati ya Tanzania na Kenya vita kuja kutokea kati yetu ni jambo gumu sana. Ni rahisi kutokea kwa vita vya ndani Kenya kuliko kutokea kwa vita kati ya Kenya na TAnzania. We are too interdependent na kuna kitu kama undugu wa damu na ukaribu kati yetu.
    Msije kujidanganya kuwa Tanzania kuna uzembe kwenye jeshi, pamoja na kuwa wanasiasa wanajaribu kuliigiza jeshi kwenye mkenge na siasa zao. lakini bado we have a disciplined army, ambalo kwa sasa ni less motivated lakini akijaribu mtu kulitikisa motivation yote itarudi na atakiona cha mtema kuni.
    Huwezi kuipa credit Rwanda kwa kuivamia Uganda kwa wanajeshi ambao wamesoma Tanzania. wamefundishwa Tanzania na Rwanda yenye ambayo haijawahi kuwa na decent jeshi. Mobutu kwenye utawala wako wote alikuwa anatumia Mercenaries kutoka Israel, Russia, SA na Angola, nchi ile ilikuwa na mgambo tu. Ndio maana mpaka sasa hata Nkunda wanashindwa kumkamata, bado hakuna jeshi linaloweza kulinda usalama wa nchi.
    Kutokana na ninachofahamu, kwenye eneo la kusini Angola na SA ndio wako juu kuliko sisi, kwa karibu yote. Kwenye maziwa makuu hasa kule kwenye vurugu hakuna cha kututisha sana.japo sio kwa kupuuza.
     
  13. Dua

    Dua JF-Expert Member

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    Waswahili walisema aliyesimama aangalie asiangukiwe na mti.
     
  14. O

    Ogah JF-Expert Member

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    .......loud and clear.........Bongolander!,
    unajua watu wanapoanza kuleta propanganda na Siasa ktk mambo ya nguvu za kijeshi....haya bana waache waendelee.......Bongolander thank you for hicho kipande hapo juu
     
  15. M

    Mgaya JF-Expert Member

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    Tanzania chini ya uongozi wa ccm inakuwa dhaifu kila dakika inayopita. Watu hawajali maisha ya watanzania wala usalama wao. Aibu kubwa kabisaaaaa.
     
  16. Dua

    Dua JF-Expert Member

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    Basi lapigwa bomu Bongo

    2008-05-20 16:27:43
    SOURCE: Alasiri

    Sasa kuna watu wametangaza vita ndani ya nchi yetu na sisi tumekaa bwelele tu tunangojea amiri jeshi mkuu arudi wakati amekwenda likizo. Hatuwezi kuwa taifa kama tunashindwa kulinda mipaka yetu na vurugu ambazo tunaziachia zinazidi kila siku. Je, Jeshi la polisi na Jeshi la ulinzi wanajisifu kwamba wanaweza kutulinda?
     
  17. J

    JokaKuu Platinum Member

    #17
    May 25, 2008
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    Kithuku,

    ..badala ya kushindana na Rwanda na Uganda kuandaa majeshi ya uvamizi na maharamia bora tujielekeze kuunda taasisi ya kitaalamu inayoendana na zama hizi za teknolojia.

    ..tunapaswa ku-train askari wanaoweza kufanya shughuli za kupambana na majanga kama mafuriko, tetemeko la ardhi, ajali mbaya, kuzima moto etc etc.

    ..hivi miaka 12 tangu MV Bukoba sidhani kama tunaweza kusema with confidence kwamba ikitokea ajali kama ile basi JWTZ wanaweza kufanya shughuli ya uokoaji.

    ..katika nchi za wenzetu majeshi hushiriki ktk ujenzi wa barabara, majengo ya taasisi nyeti, madaraja, viwanja vya ndege etc etc.

    ..hata mtandao uligunduliwa kutokana na utafiti uliokuwa ukifanyika jeshini.
     
  18. P

    Phillemon Mikael JF Gold Member

    #18
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    ...jeshi Letu Linaweza Kuwa Limeshuka Uwezo Wa Vifaa Lakini Moyo Wanao...morali..tatizo La Vifaa Linasababishwa Na Ufisadi Wa Maafisa Waandamizi Jeshini Wakiongozwa Na Wanasiasa..

    ..budget Ya Kununua Zana Nyingi Za Kisasa Inatumiwa Vibaya ..kwa Kkununua Zana Dhaifu Kwa Kutumia Makampuni Feki Kama La Yule Vithlani..ambaye Ametuuzia Radar,magari 600,na Helicopter Feki Za Kiraia ...ambazo Ametuuzia Kwa Bei Ya Helicopter Za Kijeshi..

    ..wanachotushinda Rwanda Na Uganda Ni Kuwa Wao Wakijua Wapo Kwenye Hatari Ufisadi Kwenye Ununuzi Wa Zana Upo Kwa Kiwango Cha Chini..especially Rwanda....na Hadi Sasa Wana Zana Nyingi Ambazo Hatuna...kuna We Moja Inaongeea Uwezo Wa Kivifaa Wa Kila Nchi ....tupo Chini...

    Vita Ya Siku Hizi Ni Ya Kiteknolojia Zaidi Zi Infantry Kama Tunavyozoea....vita Ya Kiteknolojia Hata Nchi Yenye Morali Ndogo Na Isiyokuwa Na Umoja Inaweza Kutushinda Kwa Kutumia Zana Za Kisasa Kama Long Distance Range Missiles,latest Jet Fighters[planes],...ets...latest Ranges Of Gunship Helicopters ..ambazo Rwanda Na Uganda Wanazo..hata Kenya Pia!...lakini Capacity Ya Majeshi Ya Rwanda ,uganda,kenya Kivifaa Kwa Kiasi Kikubwa Imewezeshwa Na Marekani.....
     
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