Nduli Idd Amin Dada or an African Hero.

[Taso]

Najua umenielewa vizuri ila mbwembwe zako tuuu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sikusema sijakuelewa. Nilichosema:

Mmakonde anawaambia Waswahili kwamba kuna Muha anajua sana Kijerumani kwa vile yeye hamuelewi.

Maana yake ni kwamba kati ya wewe Mmakua au Mchaga na audience ya Waswahili na Wanyasa na huyo subject matter Muha wa Kigoma inawezekana hakuna wa kuhukumu nani anajua Kijerumani maana ni lugha ngeni kwao wote. Inawezekana unaona fulani anajua kumbe ni kwa vile wewe ndio hujui, huelewi.

 

[Kiranga]

Sikusema sijakuelewa. Nilichosema:

Mmakonde anawaambia Waswahili kwamba kuna Muha anajua sana Kijerumani kwa vile yeye hamuelewi.

Maana yake ni kwamba kati ya wewe Mmakua au Mchaga na audience ya Waswahili na Wanyasa na huyo subject matter Muha wa Kigoma inawezekana hakuna wa kuhukumu nani anajua Kijerumani maana ni lugha ngeni kwao wote. Inawezekana unaona fulani anajua kumbe ni kwa vile wewe ndio hujui, huelewi.

This argument carries within it an inherent flaw in its dilapidated logic kwamba Mmakua/ Mchagga/ Mmakonde hawezi kujua Kijerumani barabara.

As it happens namjua Mmakonde mmoja anajua Kijerumani kupita baadhi ya Wajerumani.

Kwa hiyo the main assumption carrying this argument is fallacious. Labda u qualify vitu further.

 

[Tiger]

Sikusema sijakuelewa. Nilichosema:

Mmakonde anawaambia Waswahili kwamba kuna Muha anajua sana Kijerumani kwa vile yeye hamuelewi.

Maana yake ni kwamba kati ya wewe Mmakua au Mchaga na audience ya Waswahili na Wanyasa na huyo subject matter Muha wa Kigoma inawezekana hakuna wa kuhukumu nani anajua Kijerumani maana ni lugha ngeni kwao wote. Inawezekana unaona fulani anajua kumbe ni kwa vile wewe ndio hujui, huelewi.

Nimekusoma Taso.
Kuhusu swala la kutoelewa lugha na kukuona unajua sana nadhani siyo kweli, maana kwa kile kidogo ninacho kifahamu
naamini kinatosha kujua kama wewe unakiweza au la.
Kwa kuongezea tu ni kwamba kunawatu huwa wanamponda jamaa kwamba kazidisha ki-Bluray(ung'eng'e), we unadhani wanalalama
bila sababu za msingi?
Kama mtu anakijua mi nasema tuuuu.(sina wivu)

 

[Tiger]

This argument carries within it an inherent flaw in its dilapidated logic kwamba Mmakua/ Mchagga/ Mmakonde hawezi kujua Kijerumani barabara.

As it happens namjua Mmakonde mmoja anajua Kijerumani kupita baadhi ya Wajerumani.

Kwa hiyo the main assumption carryin this argument is fallacious. Labda u qualify vitu further.

Hapo nawaacha mpambane wenyewe.

 

[Junius]

one thing you are forgetting ngoda is that iddi amin's tarnished image is not the fault of nyerere. The international community by then already saw him as a dictator. So the question is that don't you believe the fact that he committed crimes against humanity?

Mkuu mimi naona kama unayabeza mawazo yako huru kwa kufikiria ya watu. Kama jamii ya kimataifa inamwita mtu "gaidi", kiongozi "dikteta"n.k wana vigezo vyao vya kufanya hivyo, japo si lazima vigezo hivyo viwe vya msingi kwa wengine wenye mawazo huru bila ya maslahi.

Mfano, wakati tokyo sexwale, anakuwa waziri wa afrika kusini huru, wakati fulani alitaka kwenda marekani kikazi, wamerekani walimkatalia kuingia nchi yao kwa kuwa sheria zao (wanazozijuwa wao) wanamjuwa sexwale na viongozi wengine waandamizi wa anc mpaka wakati huo kama "magaidi". Kwa maoni yako huru mkuu ungekubali kuwa anc kilikuwa ni chama cha kigaidi kwa kuwa boers na marafiki zao (marekani) walisema hivyo? Why should the same example not applied to amin?
Ndiyo hapa ninapokuwa na-doubt kama kweli nyerere alikuwa na sababu nyingene zaidi ya ubarakala kuanzisha vita na uganda!

a second point is that tanzania did not just out of know where invade uganda. It is a known fact that iddi amin wanted to occupy the land bordering tanzania and uganda. The most sacred job of any president is to defend the borders of his country. You being a tanzanian don't you believe in protecting our land?

Mkuu hapa sina hakika kama unataarifa zaidi ya ulizopata shule katika kadhia hii. Ujuwe kuwa wakati amin anadaiwa kuvamia tanzania, na nyerere anatangaza vita majeshi ya amini yalikuwa tayari yesharudi nchini kwao uganda, hivyo mipaka ya tanzania ilikuwa salama wakati huo, yaliyobaki yalikuwa ya nyerere rohoni mwake zidi ya amin. Hakukuwa na haja ya kuanzisha vita wakati kinachoitwa uvamizi hakikuwapo tena,yaani kitisho kilishaondoka...ni sawa na mahakama kutoa hukumu ya mtuhumiwa wa uhalifu aliyekwishafariki.

Mkuu, kuna watu viongozi wa juu bado wapo wakati wa kadhia ile ilipotokea, hawafichi kusema kuwa hakukua na haja ya vita vile kwa kuwa mara nyingi amin alimuonya nyerere kuchukuwa hatua zidi ya makundi ya upinzani ya serikali yake yanayoshambulia uganda kutokea mipaka ya tanzania.

Nyerere, kwakuwa aliwaunga mkono waasi hao na kuwapa silaha na mafunzo ndani ya jwtz(kumbuka obote alipopinduliwa alikimbilia tanzania na kikundi chake tiifu) hakujali, aliendelea kupokea taarifa za uwongo kutoka kwa bregedia yussuf himid (baba yake mansour yussuf himid waziri wa nishati smz) na kwa roho ya kisasi akazieneza taarifa hizo kuwa nchi yetu "imevamiwa..na nduli idd amin..tumpigeni...sababu, nia na uwezo tunao..." wakati hali hakuwa hivyo nchi haikuwa hatarini hata kidogo kuwa ndiyo pawe na sababu ya kufanya vita vya kupoteza roho na mali...tokea pale mpaka leo tanzania haijainuka tena.

 

[MwanaFalsafa1]

Mkuu Junius unaongea kana kwamba historia yote ya Iddi Amin ni kuhusu uhasama kati ya yeye na Nyerere. Kumbuka kwamba sifa mbaya ya Iddi Amin haitokani na ugomvi kati ya Nyerere na Amin. Aidha kama ugomvi kati yao unge kuwepo au la muonekano wa Amin usinge badilika. Kwa hiyo tumuondoe kwanza Nyerere kwenye mjadala. Swali kwako mkuu Junius ni je Iddi Amin aliua au la? Na naomba usikimbilie kusema lakini fulani na fulani nao waliua kwa sababu dhambi ya mwingine haiwezi kukosha dhambi ya mwingine. Je Iddi Amin aliua au la? Tuanzie mjadala hapo.

 

[Zawadi Ngoda]

Mkuu Junius unaongea kana kwamba historia yote ya Iddi Amin ni kuhusu uhasama kati ya yeye na Nyerere. Kumbuka kwamba sifa mbaya ya Iddi Amin haitokani na ugomvi kati ya Nyerere na Amin. Aidha kama ugomvi kati yao unge kuwepo au la muonekano wa Amin usinge badilika. Kwa hiyo tumuondoe kwanza Nyerere kwenye mjadala. Swali kwako mkuu Junius ni je Iddi Amin aliua au la? Na naomba usikimbilie kusema lakini fulani na fulani nao waliua kwa sababu dhambi ya mwingine haiwezi kukosha dhambi ya mwingine. Je Iddi Amin aliua au la? Tuanzie mjadala hapo.

I wonder why Tanzanian's don't like to think beyond the borders of propaganda. I quoted Museveni's words aiming to show how the plan went through. After all, your suggestion that we should forget Nyerere when considering the killing Idd Amin did is quite wrong. There is a connection on the issue as I shall explain later below.


"Museveni said he met Binaisa in the 1970s at Kilimanjaro Hotel when allied forces based in Tanzania were plotting to overthrow dictator Idi Amin. Binaisa impressed him as an articulate and humorous person, he noted". By Henry Mukasa.


Well, Joka kuu presented the following argument.


"..I wrote that Tanzania provided military support to Ugandan dissidents in the early 70s.

..after that there was a peace accord btn Uganda and Tanzania which was sponsored by SOMALIA.

..in all my readings i have not seen anything suggesting that Tanzania violated the Mogadishu accord at any time to justify Amin's invasion of her territory in 1978.

..hata kwenye kitabu chake, "Sowing the Mustard Seed", Museveni anaelekeza kwamba Waganda walikuwa wamejikatia tamaa kwamba kuna siku watamuondoa Amini. neema iliwaangukia pale Amini, kwa ujinga wake, alipovamia Tanzania bila sababu"


Try to analyse the so called Mogadisgu Accord or peace accord if you like. Let me tell you one thing, there was no peace in the mind of Nyerere. He signed the paper and back home he continued to provide military support (Training, spying and collecting information) to Ugandan. Nyerere could not sleep as long as Obote was still in Dar es Salaam. His greatest dream was to see Obote in Kampala.


Most of the people that Field Marshal Idd Amin killed were in one way or another engaged to topple him. Somebody came with the killing of the Ugandan Bishop; this man was caught ready handed with weapons and documents that indicated his participation in planning coup. I'm sure any African president could do the same.


When it comes to books written about Field Marshal Idd Amin Dada and the Uganda/Tanzania war by the foreigner (especially westerners) are bias and don't present the true picture. What do you expect them to write about him? I agree with Mbeki when he was so disappointed seeing all the history books on Africa are written by the westerners despite having many African history professors.


My point is, if we really need to know the fact on Uganda/Tanzania war then the book must be written by Tanzanian (neutral person, not a politician) or Ugandan, If possible a soldier.
I have two scenarios in my mind on Nyerere's plan.
1. Coup to topple Amin. I believe that most of the coup to oust Amin from the power planned by Nyerere.

2.After failing plan number one that could be cost less, he planned a total war. However in order to keep himself clean, he sent small group of soldiers to Uganda knowing that Idd Amin will reply and even occupying Tanzania's land. He succeeded! Then after it was just easy running throughout Africa, and seeking condemnation.

 

[The Dreamer]

Planned or not Idd Amin had to go. A good leader should not fear his own people. It is out of fear (and malicious) that Idd Amin slaughtered his own people. He claimed to be a religious man but he wasnt...simply said, he was a killer. Thus, whoever held different views was labeled as an enemy and would be dealt with. Following terrorism against his nation and Ugandans, endangered politicians sought asylum from different countries around the globe. Tanzania, which has a relatively good reputation on human rights granted such applications. This angered Idd Amin who made a mistake to send his soldiers across Mutukula border. What followed was regrettable on his side and it marked the beginning of positive changes in Uganda. The dictator was no longer in power (reign) and thus not a variable in the equation for development and political security in the region. Taken together, Idd Amin was a dictator, barbarian and above all over ambitious. It was a rational decision to oust him. The late, Honourable J.K. Nyerere only built for the future of Uganda and East Africa at large! What a holy and glorious victory that it was!!!!!!!

 

[Mwakilishi]

... I agree with Mbeki when he was so disappointed seeing all the history books on Africa are written by the westerners despite having many African history professors. [/FONT]


My point is, if we really need to know the fact on Uganda/Tanzania war then the book must be written by Tanzanian (neutral person, not a politician) or Ugandan, If possible a soldier.
I have two scenarios in my mind on Nyerere's plan.
1. Coup to topple Amin. I believe that most of the coup to oust Amin from the power planned by Nyerere.

2.After failing plan number one that could be cost less, he planned a total war. However in order to keep himself clean, he sent small group of soldiers to Uganda knowing that Idd Amin will reply and even occupying Tanzania's land. He succeeded! Then after it was just easy running throughout Africa, and seeking condemnation.

Really? All history books on Africa are written by westerners? Mbeki supposedly said that?! A cursory look at Amazon suggests otherwise but I digress, anyway here is an excerpt from an essay by Major General Lupogo, a soldier, albeit retired now, as per your wish:

The war between Tanzania and Uganda started in October 1978 when Amin sent troops, who were still loyal to him, after mutineers, some of whom had fled to Tanzania. Amin accused Nyerere of being at the root of his troubles and of waging war against Uganda. With the hope of diverting attention from his internal troubles. Amin invaded Tanzanian territory on 1 November 1978 and formally annexed a section across the Kagera river boundary. Nyerere mobilised his army and counterattacked. In April 1979, Tanzania took Kampala and Amin fled the country.

The rest of the essay is here: Tanzania: African Security Review Vol 10 No 1

 

[The Dreamer]

Really? All history books on Africa are written by westerners? Mbeki supposedly said that?! A cursory look at Amazon suggests otherwise but I digress, anyway here is an excerpt from an essay by Major General Lupogo, a soldier, albeit retired now, as per your wish:

The war between Tanzania and Uganda started in October 1978 when Amin sent troops, who were still loyal to him, after mutineers, some of whom had fled to Tanzania. Amin accused Nyerere of being at the root of his troubles and of waging war against Uganda. With the hope of diverting attention from his internal troubles. Amin invaded Tanzanian territory on 1 November 1978 and formally annexed a section across the Kagera river boundary. Nyerere mobilised his army and counterattacked. In April 1979, Tanzania took Kampala and Amin fled the country.

The rest of the essay is here: Tanzania: African Security Review Vol 10 No 1

Thank you for a useful link but it doesnt cover a lot about the Kagera war. Rather, it narrates the 1964 Army mutiny.

 

[Junius]

Mkuu Junius unaongea kana kwamba historia yote ya Iddi Amin ni kuhusu uhasama kati ya yeye na Nyerere. Kumbuka kwamba sifa mbaya ya Iddi Amin haitokani na ugomvi kati ya Nyerere na Amin.

Ni wewe uliyemtaja Nyerere kuwa hakuwa na makosa kwa sifa mbaya za Idd Amini, labda nikuulize...neno "nduli" lilikujaje Tanzania wakati Amini alikuwa na hamsini zake Uganda?

Aidha kama ugomvi kati yao unge kuwepo au la muonekano wa Amin usinge badilika. Kwa hiyo tumuondoe kwanza Nyerere kwenye mjadala. Swali kwako mkuu Junius ni je Iddi Amin aliua au la? Na naomba usikimbilie kusema lakini fulani na fulani nao waliua kwa sababu dhambi ya mwingine haiwezi kukosha dhambi ya mwingine. Je Iddi Amin aliua au la? Tuanzie mjadala hapo.

Mkuu historia haisomwi hivyo, waingereza wanatamani historia ya biashara ya utumwa ianze kusomwa kuanzia 'kuvunjwa kwa biashara ya utumwa' na si washiriki wa biashara hiyo,ambayo wao walikuwa vinara wake. Huwezi kuongea anguko na sifa mbaya na poropaganda chafu anazopakaziwa Amin, kwa hapa kwetu bila ya kumtaja Nyerere, ndiye aliyekwambieni kuwa Idd Amin mbaya, au sivyo mkuu?
Kauwa au hakuuwa, mimi sijuwi unakusudia nini, kama unavyotaka kuuwa ni sifa mbaya ya kiongozi ,sioni haja ya wewe kukimbilia ionekane kuwa kuuwa kwa Amini kulikuwa kubaya zaidi kuliko kiongozi mwingine yoyote yule, mpaka ionekane so unique for Amin!!!

 

[Mwakilishi]

Thank you for a useful link but it doesnt cover a lot about the Kagera war. Rather, it narrates the 1964 Army mutiny.

I know, but as brief as that paragraph is, it's still an account of the Kagera war from a soldier. The OP asked for a book by a soldier, this essay by one is the best I could find.

 

[SubiriJibu]

Kiongozi mwenye mapenzi na nchi yake angeua 500,000 ya raia wake, wengi wao wasio na hatia ?

Unajua Idi Amin aliua watu kutoka katika kila nyanja ya maisha ya watu wa Uganda? Kuanzia jeshini, makanisani mpaka vilema? Huyu ndiye kiongozi anayepend nchi yake huyu ?

Wanasema walikuwa ni opponents wake. Ingekuwa sasa hivi tungesema wapinzani wake.