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Nationalization au 'Government Intervention' katika Marekani

Discussion in 'International Forum' started by mwakatojofu, Feb 24, 2009.

  1. mwakatojofu

    mwakatojofu JF-Expert Member

    #1
    Feb 24, 2009
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    Leo hii katika Marekani wanaongelea kuhusu nationalizaion au government intervention. mimi inanishangaza. hapa napata picha ya wao kuanza kufanya kinyume na 'free market economy' wanayoihubiria sana.

    maana free market wanayoisema na wanayotaka sisi tuifuate maana yake ni hii:
    A free market is a market that is free of government intervention and regulation, besides the minimal function of maintaining the legal system and protecting property rights, and is also free of private force and fraud. hii ni kwa mujibu wa: Free market - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    wanaelekea kuwa kama sisi kipindi cha nyerere? maana naona dalili zinaelekea huko na hii inaweza kuwa dalili ya kushindwa kwa hiyo free market? sisi tanzania tufanteje?

    na zaidi zaidi sisi tuna kitu gani cha kujifunza kutokana na hili la serikali kuingilia sekta binafsi?
     
  2. MaxShimba

    MaxShimba JF-Expert Member

    #2
    Feb 24, 2009
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    This is a very good thread.

    Serikali inapo bailout makampuni binafsi, inamaana kuwa inaweka hisa ndani ya hizo kampuni, ambao ni utamaduni wa socialism.

    Nyerere alikuwa bingwa wa hayo mambo. Naona wanyamwezi wa kimarekani wameamua kuiga au geza utamaduni wa Kambarage either wakijua wafanyacho au bila kujuwa kuwa ni socialism.


     
  3. mwakatojofu

    mwakatojofu JF-Expert Member

    #3
    Feb 25, 2009
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    wamarekani wengine wanapinga hilo. wengine wanaunga mkono wakisema ndo njia ya kujiokoa kutoka walipo na kuzuia kuharibikiwa uchumi zaidi kama mambo yataachwa yaende kama zamani (kwenye capitalism?). husema kuwa "Taxpayers will be protected, the housing market will stabilize etc. etc. "
    na wakati huo huo wanakopa kwa mchina ambaye wanasema ana mahela kibao. mi hapa nilitegemea wakope kwa mwingereza au mjeruman. lakin tunasikia pia mwingereza hali si nzuri sana. siku za karibuni nimesoma sehemu wanapanga kukopa.
    ukiiangalia china hata leo huwezi huwezi kusema ni capitalist country kama marekani au uingereza.
    kwahiyo sisi tufuate/tuige china inavyoendesha mambo yake na sio wamarekani au waingereza na mahubiri yao? capitalism haifai tena?
     
  4. Kaizer

    Kaizer JF-Expert Member

    #4
    Feb 25, 2009
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    Wakuu, naona capitalism imeanza kushindwa...imefikia stage ya 'creative destruction'

    kama mlivosema, hii ni kuingilia mfumo wa soko huria..na sehemu kama UK na germany tayari wanafikiria kunationalise baadhi ya mabenki na sheria zimepitishwa!

    Si ujamaa huu waliokuwa wakiukataa? hivi vitu haviendi bila regulation ya namna fulani!
     
  5. MaxShimba

    MaxShimba JF-Expert Member

    #5
    Feb 26, 2009
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    Marekani inadaiwa na Wa-china Dollar Trilioni Mbili, ukiangali bidhaa ambazo zinauzwa USA, asilimia kubwa ya bidhaa hizo ni za kutoka kwa Wajamaa wa Kichina. Statistics zinaonyesha kuwa Chinise Food Store zimezidi Marekani kuliko jumla ya Mikidee na Burger King.

    Wachina wakigoma kuleta bidhaa Marekani itakuwa sawasawa na Waarabu kugoma kuiuzia Marekani mafuta.

    Wakuu, hali ndio hiyo hapa USA. Obama ameamua kununua karibu kila Benki na Insurance Companies.

    Huu ni ujamaa.
     
  6. mwakatojofu

    mwakatojofu JF-Expert Member

    #6
    Feb 26, 2009
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    hii inashangaza zaidi.

    kama vitu vingi vinavyotumika ndani ya marekani havitengenezwi katka marekani hii inaashiria kuwa hawazalishi wakajitosheleza ndani. ni kama sisi tulivyojaza vitu kutoka nje kwenye maduka yetu hapa bongo. kwa namna hiyo uchumi utanyanyukaje? hasahasa mchina atazidi kujitengenezea faida.
    nchi inabidi izalishe vitu vya kutumia na ziada iuze nje.

    sasa mmarekani anauza nini nje kwa sasa? atakuwa anatengeneza na kutuuzia nini ambacho mchina na/au mjapani atakuwa hatengenezi? na mara nyingi kitu cha mchina kitakuwa cha bei rahisi katka soko kuliko cha mmarekani. hiyo inategemewa kusababisha bidhaa ya mchina inunuliwe zaidi

    na wakati huohuo matumiz yake katka jeshi ni makubwa mno. source: Military budget of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    naona njia nyembamba ya marekani kunyanyuka kutoka katka kadhia hii. zaid zaid naona njia nyeupe kwa mchina kuwa ndio karakana kuu ya dunia na hivyo muuzaji na sisi wengine na wamarekani wateja wao
     
  7. mwakatojofu

    mwakatojofu JF-Expert Member

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    Feb 26, 2009
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    hebu angalia mambo haya yafuatayo;

    1. nchi tajiri zilizobobea katika 'capitalism' zinatingisika. hali si shwari tena (watu kwa maelfu wanapoteza kazi, makampuni yao yanapata hasara, serikali zinalazimika kukopa na kuingilia 'free market')

    2. lakini wakati huohuo tunakumbuka kuwa: ujamaa wa rusia ulishindwa (iliparanganyika, haikuendelea sana kiviwanda kama marekani na ulaya magharibi), na ujamaa wa tanzania chini ya nyerere ulishindwa (kuadimika kwa bidhaa na nk.)

    sasa katika hali kama hii kwanini china inaendelea kusonga mbele? yenyewe si inafuata ujamaa kama nchi zingine za iliyokuwa ulaya mashariki ambako kulikuwa hamna maendeleo? au china imechanganya capitalism na ujamaa? au ujamaa wa china una vionjo tofauti?
     
  8. MaxShimba

    MaxShimba JF-Expert Member

    #8
    Feb 26, 2009
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    Maswali yako ni matamu sana na yanahitaji majibu ya kifanisi.

    Kwasasa Wamarekani ni consumers na sio producers. Shati liloshonwa hapa USA bei yake ni Dollar 80 na kuendelea, Shati la kampuni hiyo hiyo lilishonewa Bangladesh au Uchina linauzwa dollar 12 mpaka 19, electronics karibia zote hazitengenezwi hapa.

    Juzijuzi nilikuwa kwenye duka la ujenzi, chakushangaza nikuwa, hata mbao za ujezi zilikuwa zimetoka China na Sweden.

    Swali lako linabakia palepale, je Wachina wanafuata mfumo gani, au ujamaa wao unavionjo tofaudi?
     
  9. mwakatojofu

    mwakatojofu JF-Expert Member

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    Feb 27, 2009
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    hapa napata picha kuwa marekani kutabaki kukiwa na upungufu wa ajira na watakosa kodi fulani kutokana na kuwa production haifanyiki kwao.

    lakini kama kampuni inayozalisha china ina labda ofis/makao makuu katka marekani ni wazi marekani watakuwa wanapata kodi fulani kutokana na ufanyaji kazi wa hiyo kampuni nje ya marekani

    hapa naona tofauti na tz. vitu vingi vinavyouzwa madukani vinatoka kenya na sehemu zingine. lakini sio kampuni za kitz zinazofanya productions hizo nje

    na majuz juzi nimesoma kuwa marekani imewekeza a lot in research. wakati huohuo china haijawekeza sana katka research. hii inanipa picha kuwa china inategemea technology kutoka nje - ama kwa kuinunua au kwa kuiba (miezi/miaka kadhaa nyuma niliwahi kusikia habari za mchina aliyepatikana na hatia ya kuiba technology katka marekani na kuipeleka china).
     
  10. Lusajo

    Lusajo JF-Expert Member

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    Feb 27, 2009
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    Wachina ni wajanja na wana moyo na nchi yao, wao wakija kusoma ni wanasoma kweli na wanarudi kwao kuendeleza mambo, yaani huwa wanajua wanachofanya. Ni kweli vitu vingi sana ni vya China, yaani kwa mfano Computer ukiifungua ndani karibu vitu vyoote ni vya China kasoro Box tu lililobeba nje ndio limeandikwa Made in America.
     
  11. Nyambala

    Nyambala JF-Expert Member

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    Feb 27, 2009
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    [​IMG]
     
  12. m

    mmaroroi JF-Expert Member

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    Feb 27, 2009
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    Viongozi waone hili na wawasikilize wadau waache kuziba masikio,serikali idhibiti vitegauchumi na kurudisha mali za umma zilizouzwa kifisadi.
     
  13. Kaizer

    Kaizer JF-Expert Member

    #13
    Feb 27, 2009
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    Kaka, nadhani pia ni suala la regulation (usimamizi). Ukiangalia wachina wako very strict kwenye usimamizi mfano kuna zero tolerance ya corruption! sasa kwa siye, wetu ulishindwa pampja na mambo mengine kwa sababu ya kukumbatia rushwa..yaani tulikuwa na sera nzuri ila usimamizi ndo hivo tena, of course huwezi ku rule out sabbotage ya mabepari wakati huo na condition zao ngumu za mikopo na misaada.

    kilichowanshinda hawa mabepari ni kukosa usimamizi na kudhani kuwa soko linaweza kusimamia kila kitu!
     
  14. mwakatojofu

    mwakatojofu JF-Expert Member

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    Mar 3, 2009
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    Kuna jamaa mmoja aliwahi kuniambia kuwa wachina wanafanya sana kazi. Wao ni kazi kazi kazi mtindo mmoja. Aliniambia wanahabari ndogo na mambo mengine wao ni kazi tu.

    Na majuzi juzi kuna mtu alianzisha thread humu JF akisema aliwakuta wachina wanapiga debe pale ubungo. Na alipouliza aliambiwa wale wachina wapiga debe lile ni basi lao (linatoka dar linaenda mbeya). Mii hii inanionyesha kuwa wachina ni watu wa kazi hasa. Sijawahi kufikiria kumuona mbongo au mzungu mwenye mtaji wa kununua basi la masafa marefu akae ubungo apigie debe basi lake. Mmarekani anaweza fanya hivyo? Si rahisi.

    kuna haja ya viongozi kuanza na kuendelea kusisitiza umuhimu wa kufanya kazi kwa bidii zaidi (huku wakionyesha mifano wenyewe kwanza). sio kufanya kazi kibishoo bishoo. unasubiri ifike saa 10 au 11 uambae nyumbani. tuna watu wengi mijini na vijijini tanzania ambao kwao kufanya kazi wanaona kama adhabu au utumwa.
     
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