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Nani ni mkali wa kimombo kati ya Nyerere, Mkapa, Kikwete na Slaa!

Discussion in 'Habari na Hoja mchanganyiko' started by malkiory, Apr 22, 2011.

  1. malkiory

    malkiory JF-Expert Member

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  2. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Some would say the premise of this thread is frivolous.

    Ally Hassan Mwinyi spoke better Swahili than all, but that did not help him in being decisive.
    Mkapa spoke English better than all but lacked charisma and couldn't give a live speech. His English did not help his integrity.
    Nyerere was the most conversant, eloquent and capable live speaker and writer, but he still managed to butcher his Swahili.
    Kikwete can't speak, can't write, can't think. In either Swahili or English. And doesn't have either integrity or a spine.
     
  3. O

    Ombeni Charles Member

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    Mimi kwa mtazamo wangu naona SLAA YUKO JUU, kwani anaongea lugha zaidi ya 5 kama vile Kitaliano, Kijuruman, Kiingereza kifaransa na kiholanzi mpaka hapo mpooooo!!
     
  4. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Umeshawahi kusikiliza mahojiano ya Mwanakijiji na Slaa yaliyowekwa hapa JF? Jamaa anachapia Kiswahili mpaka inataka kutapisha.

    Ni ukweli tu, hamna fanaticism hapa.

    I don't mean to disqualify him because of that, but as long as we are talking about their linguistic abilities (which tells you something about the intellectual ability, even as it cannot be used as a litmus tes) let's tell it as it is.
     
  5. X-PASTER

    X-PASTER Moderator

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    Mkuu kama unakumbuka hiyo clip au hayo mahojiano, kwa hisani yako naomba link mkuu.
     
  6. malkiory

    malkiory JF-Expert Member

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    X-PASTER ukitaka hiyo clip wewe click kwenye mnyonge mnyongeni lakini haki yake mpeni, hapo utakuta na speech za wahusika waliotajwa wote kwenye original post.
     
  7. F

    FJM JF-Expert Member

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    It's the content that counts!
     
  8. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    But the delivery can constitute the content.

    Adolf Hitler had a despicable philosophy, no admirable content, but a fiery and charismatic delivery. His delivery became a big part of his content, he wooed the German people, the rest is history.

    In the Jimmy Carter vs Ronald Reagan presidential interview, Carter clearly had more of an intellectual rigor, but Reagan was clearly the better showman. In the end the people chose the showman over the intellectual.

    While the fundaments of a leader's philosophy are of paramount importance, the communication skills are are important. Wwithout proper communication skills the message and core content is bound to be distorted.
     
  9. Nazjaz

    Nazjaz JF-Expert Member

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    this is a battle between ccm and cdm, christianity and lslam
     
  10. KakaJambazi

    KakaJambazi JF-Expert Member

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    Rais wa China hajui kiingereza,,uchumi wao una rank # ngapi?
     
  11. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Some say beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Surely there must be some beautiful people who will see beauty in everything just as there are some bigots who will see bigotry in anything - The Book of Kiranga 7:30
     
  12. Askari Kanzu

    Askari Kanzu JF-Expert Member

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    Unless you want to look at things from a neo-colonialist perspective, speaking better English (ukali wa kimombo) does not necessarily reflect one's intelligence! Nawasilisha tuu Mkuu.
     
  13. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Sio kila kitu lazima kiwe kuhusu uchumi, hiyo approach ina uchumi dhaifu katika utajiri wa maisha. Hata manabii wameshasema mtu haishi kwa mkate tu (uchumi) bali kwa neno pia (lugha, sanaa, utamaduni)

    Nilitegemea controversy iwe kwa nini unashindanisha marais wa Tanzania kwa Kiingereza kabla ya kuwashindanisha kwa Kiswahili hususan kwa sababu wananchi wengi wa Tanzania hawajui Kiingereza, lakini sio habari za uchumi.

    Na kulinganisha China na Tanzania ni hogwash kwa sababu ili mfano uwe na maana, linganisha like na like, sio unaleta kile kinachoitwa "comparing apples to oranges". Utataka kuuliza kilomita kumi na tani kumi kipi zaidi ? Zaidi kwa minajili gani ?
     
  14. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Hii ndiyo major critique, lakini mkuu hakusema kwamba anataka kutumia umombo kama kipimo cha intelligence.

    Yeye kasema anataka kujua nani amejua umombo zaidi, ku imply kwamba kauliza hivyo ili atumie uwezo wa kimombo kama intelligence ni ku draw conclusion ambayo haipo katika original question. Inatuonyesha wewe una associate kimombo kuwa associated na intelligence zaidi ya ulivyo na ushahidi wa kukuonyesha hivyo.

    Having said that, I understand where you are coming from, because you hardly hear Britons comparing their PMs in their ability to speak French. The very question can carry offense based on it's mere justification.

    Larry Summers alipata controversy kwa kuuliza tu kama wanawake wana uwezo sawa na wanaume katika hesabu na sayansi, in an academic environment nonetheless which is supposed to be more tolerant of controversial questions.

    So based on that angle, that some questions cannot be justifiably innocent without raising controversy, I totally get the questioning of the question.
     
  15. Nyani Ngabu

    Nyani Ngabu Platinum Member

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    In the end people chose a leader. A strong leader who restored America's status as the leader of the free world. You can dismiss Reagan's intellect all you want but he went down as one of the best US presidents. And people just underestimated his intellect. He was just as intelligent as the rest of them.
     
  16. KakaJambazi

    KakaJambazi JF-Expert Member

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    Hapa kuna vitu viwili.

    1.kuna mabingwa wa kuandika lakini si wazuri wa kufloo (huongea broken tupu)

    2.kuna wengine ni mabigwa wa kuongea a.k.a kufloo (bila kujali gramatic error) na ni wabovu wa kabisa wa kuandika.

    Kiranga (niko tayari kunyongwa) wewe binafsi huwezi kuwa bigwa wa vyote.
     
  17. Masanilo

    Masanilo JF-Expert Member

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    Kikwete can't speak, can't write, can't think. In either Swahili or English.......still a president of URT!
     
  18. Nyani Ngabu

    Nyani Ngabu Platinum Member

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    Exactly how?
     
  19. Askari Kanzu

    Askari Kanzu JF-Expert Member

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    Na akishajua, iweje? Naomba jibu.
     
  20. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Linguistic ability tells me something about a person's ability to follow the rules of a certain language, the grammar, richness of vocabulary etc. So, as far as that angle is concerned, I can deduce that between two people of equal standing, the one with a higher command of a certain language which both ought to know has a higher intellect as far as that language is concerned, he/she can better follow the rules of grammar and express himself eloquently.

    But I would not take this to mean that he has a higher intellect, because he can be talented in the arts/ language but be horrible in logic and numeracy. This is why I included the crucial caveat "Even as it cannot be used as a litmus test".

    In short, what I said amounts to saying a person with a higher command of English has a higher intelligence in the language of the English, but that does not mean he has a higher intelligence period.

    Command of English gives you a snapshot about a person's intellectual ability, how can he navigate a language and manage the grammar and vocabulary. So it is a snapshot into someone's intelligence. But like any snapshot, it does not give you a big enough picture (it captures a narrow timeframe / narrow area) to be able to say "Better English = Better intelligence"

    Intelligence in this context is a very complex concept to define in any case.

    How would you define intelligence in the context presented here?
     
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