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Nani kachukua nafasi ya Mwl Nyerere CCM?

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by mstahiki, Mar 1, 2008.

  1. m

    mstahiki JF-Expert Member

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    Nyerere aliweza kuongoza chama hata baada ya kung'atuka..
    Je ni nani kachukua nafasi hio?Angekuwepo ange shugulikia kivi ishu cha Richmond,IPTL,BOT etc ?
     
  2. Masanilo

    Masanilo JF-Expert Member

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    Malecela....
     
  3. Dua

    Dua JF-Expert Member

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    Hakuna mwenye huo ubavu, hutokea kila baada ya muda fulani kupita angalia historia.

    Tuliwalaumu watemi wengi kwa kuwauza utumwa waafrika wenzetu, leo hii MAFISADI wamekuwa makuwadi wakati wamepelekwa shule na pesa ya walipa kodi. Licha ya kujilimbikizia mali ya haramu ya jasho la wananchi.
     
  4. Field Marshall ES

    Field Marshall ES JF-Expert Member

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    CCM hakuna kiongozi aliyechukua nafasi ya Mwalimu, isipokuwa matatizo yanatatuliwa as they come siku hizi ishu huletwa mbele ya cc na wajumbe hutoa maoni yao, yale yanayo-make sense ndiyo hukubalika na mwenyekiti, akishakubali yeye tu basi limepita,

    Kingunge, amekuwa akijaribu sana kupitisha agenda za mtandao, lakini amekuwa akigonga mwamba kwa asilia, ambao recently wamekuwa na upper hand kwenye maamuzi muhimu, kutokana na uwezo mdogo sana ulio onyeshwa na mtandao katika angalau kuelewa what is a public interest,

    Mwalimu, angekuwepo leo asingefanya kitu maana hata kabla hajafariki tayari kulikuwa na ishus za wizi wa election ya visiwani, na uuzwaji wa bei poa wa NBC, ambako hakuweza kufanya anything, na pia alishindwa kumpitisha Salim, huko ndani ya CCM, kwa hiyo by the time anaondoka Mwalimu, alikuwa na very minimal impact ndani ya ccm, that angekuwepo hata leo kwa maoni yangu asingefanya kitu.
     
  5. Azimio Jipya

    Azimio Jipya JF-Expert Member

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    Kabla ya kujibu kuhusu nafasi ya Nyerere, ningependa kuangalia hali hiyo hiyo kwa Watu mashuhuri kama Newton, Galileo, Einstern,Yesu etc.

    Mimi sioni kama kwa kutokuwepo kwao kunaadhiri chochote katika mafundisho yao. Kama mtu ana filosofia fulani madhubuti na hasa kama ameshafanikiwa kuimwaga kwenye jamii hahitaji kuundelea kuwepo pale maana kwanza mara nyingi inachukuamuda mrefu kwa rest of the community kuielewa na kiupractise. Pili hata kama akiwepo asingefundisha tofaiti wala kuongezea chochote cha msingi zaidi hicho alichokwisha fanya.

    Mfano Nyerere alikuwa na kanuni na filosofia ya UTU ...Hii haipitwi na wakati. Yesu alikuwa na falsafa ya Upendo...haipitwi na wakati... Galileo, Newton...ni kanuni na falsafa ya Gravity...Einsten..Relativity....Dunia inavifanyia kazi mpaka leo hii na wala haionekani lini itamaliza shehena ndani ya filosifia hizo. Cha ajabu dunia haiwezi kukamilika bila hizo shule na filosofia nzito.

    "UTU": wana CCM wataukimbia, wataupinga, wataubeza..Lakini at the end of the day hawataweza kuusaliti na wakabakia salama. Uongozi bila utu sio uongozi ni ufisadi na unaona kinachotokea sasa hivi.

    Dhana ya utu aliyofundisha Nyerere, leo Inahitajika kwa nguvu zote na wengi wanaona nyerere alikuwa anamanisha nini. Hahitaji kuwepo yeye au mtu yeyote wa kumrithi. Ukweli ni kuwa kila mtu lazima autimize tu! Kila Mtu ajiulize yeye Ni mtu mwenye UTU kweli? Kila mtu ajiulize anafuata UTU na Maadili Yake? Wana CCM walivizembea hivyo, walivikimbia vyote hivyo..Lakini Unaona vuguvugu linaloendelea nchini...Ni la "Kuudai UTU na Maadili yake ya Haki na kuheshimiana kwenye nyanja zote hasa za Uchumi na Uongozi" Utafikiri nyerere yuko mahali fulani na anawashawishi watanzania wote kusukuma mbele vuguvugu .. kwa hotuba na kifimbo chake ...!Hahitajiki. Ni mahijati ya jamii kwakipindi fulani kitadi falsafa fulani iliyokuwa haijaeleweaka au kuembewa kizembe tu ..kufufuliwa na kutumika. Mara nyingi waanzilishi wake wanakuwa wameshatoweka.

    Viogozi kama nNyerere etc niwachache. Leo hawa waliopo wakiondoka hawana Falsafa ambayo ni self sustainable ...hapo ndio swali na uridhi litakuja.
     
  6. K

    Kafara JF-Expert Member

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    hakuna. mwalimu alikuwa anauwezo wa kuthubutu kukemea, sasa hivi sioni mwenye uthubutu huo.

    hata kama kwenye cc ya ccm alikuwa tayari wameishaanza kutomsikiliza bado alikuwa kapewa sikio na wananchi wengi tuu.
     
  7. M

    Mafuchila JF-Expert Member

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    Sina hakika kama mwalimu alikuwa na uthubutu wa kukemea, na mambo mengi mabovu yaliyokuwa yakifanyika kipindi cha Mwinyi alikuwa akiyashuhudia bila kuwa na uthubutu wa kukemea. Kama alijaribu kukemea, hakuzungumza katika lugha ya kukemea bali ya kutahadharisha. Mfano, hotuba yake ya May Mosi Mbeya na mkutano wa waandishi wa habari Kilimanjaro hotel.

    Uthubutu niliouona kwa Mwalimu kama alikuwa nao, ni pale alipowakemea G-55 kule Dodoma kuhusu serikali ya Tanganyika, na hilo ni kwa sababu lilikuwa linamgusa yeye binafsi moja kwa moja na sio Watanzania milioni 33 kwa wakati huo. Nilikuwa naamini na bado nitaendelea kuamini, mwalimu aliridhika sana udhaifu wa Mwinyi na baadaye Mkapa, kwa sababu ni kwa udhaifu wao tu ndipo unaweza kumuona Mwalimu alikuwa ni kiongozi bora hapa Bongo kuliko mwingine.

    Mbona alishindwa kumkemea marehemu Thabit Kombo alipombagua Salim mbele ya macho yake? Mbona hakukemea ubinafsishaji mwingi ambao haukuwa na manufaa kwetu? Unakumbuka kauli yake kuwa nimekivumilia sana chama changu katika maamuzi mengi mabovu, lakini sio hili la Muungano! Hivi muungano ulikuwa ni bora sana kwa mwalimu kuliko wizi, rushwa na UFISADI uliokuwa ukianza kuota kutu akiwa hai?
     
  8. Kasheshe

    Kasheshe JF-Expert Member

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    Don't worry Nyerere also shined b'se he had to represent public interest especially b'se the public/wananchi were in deep sleep except very few people... and you know what? Nowadays the Nyerere position has been started to be occupied by the wananchi themselves...

    As technology has made them to be aware of what is going on, on their own country... before it was only Mwal. who knew that EL's richness was unexplainable...

    Just recalll what happened in Dodoma recently,,, so don't worry the wananchi have already covered Nyerere position!!! Tutakemea wenyewe... kama tunavyofanya sasa.... machungu tunayapata sisi wakemee wengine?

    Thanks God brought a president who listen and also let the community to discuss things openly... no vocabulary likes this "...wivu wa kijinga" are no longer there!
     
  9. M

    Mkandara Verified User

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    Field Marshall Es,

    Mkuu nitakusahihisha kidogo kuhusu Nyerere..
    Nyerere alifariki mwaka 1999, Mkapa akiwa rais , hivyo uchaguzi wa kwanza haukuwa na utata ni ule baada ya kifo chake.
    Pili, umezungumzia swala la NBC kusema kweli Mkapa alimvika kanzu Mwalimu mwaka 1997 waliigawa NBC katika mafungu matatu. http://www.psrctz.com/Advertised%20Opportunities/Advetised-EOI%20NMB%20Privatisation.htm
    1. NBC Holding Corporation.
    2. National Micro-finance Bank (NMB) na
    3. NBC (1997) Limited.

    Ni baada ya ya kufa kwa Nyerere, mwaka 2000 ndipo hii Benki yetu ilipo binafsishwa rasmi. Na wala sio NBC peke yake yapo makampuni mengi ambayo hayakutakiwa kubinafsishwa yalibinafsishwa awamu ya pili ya Mkapa - CHUKUA CHAKO MAPEMA.
     
  10. Kibunango

    Kibunango JF-Expert Member

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    Field Marshall Es anazungumzia uchaguzi wa 1995 wa zanzibar, ambapo ushindi ule ulikuwa na mkono wa Mwl. Nyerere
     
  11. Nyani Ngabu

    Nyani Ngabu Platinum Member

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    Mwanakijiji kachukua nafasi yake....
     
  12. J

    Jasusi JF-Expert Member

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    Mafuchila,
    Mara nyingi nakubaliana na wewe. Lakini leo naomba nitofautiane na wewe kuwa Mwalimu aliweza kuvumilia uvurundaji wa Mwinyi na Mkapa kwa sababu alitaka yeye peke yake atukuke. Hapana. Mwalimu aliipenda Tanzania sana. Nakumbuka baada ya Mkapa kuingia Ikulu Mwalimu was very proud akisema sasa tumepata kurudisha heshima yetu ya kimataifa ambayo ilikuwa imevunjwa na rushwa na ubabaishaji wa Mwinyi. Tanzania tungepata rais makini na dedicated zaidi ya Mwalimu hakuna mtu ambaye angeona fahari zaidi ya Mwalimu. Believe me. It took guts for Mwalimu to stand there and say Tanzania stinks. And I am certain Mwalimu went to his grave with a broken heart baada ya Mkapa kumzuga juu ya NBC na madudu yaliyofuata.
     
  13. J

    Jasusi JF-Expert Member

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    Kibunango,
    Tatizo la uchaguzi wa Zanzibar 1995 lilikuwa ni Seif mwenyewe. Yeye alikuwa anahubiri sera za kuwarejesha Waarabu. Alikuwa anakashifu mapinduzi ya 1964. Ungekuwa wewe Nyerere ungemwacha mtu kama huyo achukue dola?
     
  14. Bin Maryam

    Bin Maryam JF-Expert Member

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    Watanzania Grow UP.

    Nchi haijengwi na mtu mmoja. Watakuja watu wazuri na wataondoka lakini nchi itabakia palepale.

    Hivyo cha muhimu ni kujenga taasisi za nchi na sio mtu mmoja kuwa taasisi za nchi.
     
  15. Field Marshall ES

    Field Marshall ES JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu Bob,

    Nafikiri Jasusi, amesema yote, uchaguzi ulioibiwa ulikuwa ni mwaka 1995, na NBC ilianza kuuzwa vipande vipande kwa kumuogopa Mwalimu, lakini imefikia wakati tumuache Mwalimu, apumzike kwa amani.

    Haya ya kina Lowassa, ni yetu wenyewe tuliobaki.
     
  16. K

    Kafara JF-Expert Member

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    amen aka na iwe hivyo.

    mkuu hapo umenena
     
  17. Kinyambiss

    Kinyambiss JF-Expert Member

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    FMES Lowassa alikuwa mwizi from day one.. Alipokuwa waziri wa Ardhi is wen he over did it. Ananyumba masaki zaidi ya kumi.hahaha. Nyerere knew all this ndio maana alimkataa lakini JK na EL bado wakateam up in 1995 kwajili yakujiandaa for 2005. Sasa Huyu mtu alipitaje mpaka akawa waziri mkuu..??? Mbona uozo wa Malecela haukurusiwa kurudi (as in Kuwa Rais) maana alishaonyesha element chafu from before. Mwalimu hakumtaka and that was the basis for his elimination....

    Mwalimu wanted power, good thing he was smart and knew wen to let go of it, therefore he retained his integrity. He did not want money because he was smarter than that, he recognised that money only does you good to the point that ur in the grave.. RESPECT LIVES ON.. He was a hero. Alikuwa na misimamo.. Viongozi wa saivi wanapenda power for a while and after that wa retire with tens or even if possible hundreds of millions of dollars.. (mimi nasemaga wana steam 'zakibillionaire')... Wote sio EL tu, BWM na wengine wengi. yes hata muungwana... pension ya rais ni 70 sijui labda saivi 100 million. SASA wao wanaona hizo pocket change... although wanaendelea kula 80% ya mshahara hadi kufa.hehehe

    The word is GREED... Back to the topic, saivi hakuna m2 mwenye nafaisi ya Mwalimu at all, hamna mtu mwenye the integrity that he had katika uongozi wa CCM sasaivi... I doubt hata humu JF kama kuna mtu mmoja mwenye misimamo kiasi kile, sijui...,who am I to say?

    >Mimi ningenda kuona real opposition in TZ, ambayo saivi hakuna... Kuna vyama vya Jazba... WAhuni, ma freemasons, makachero wanaozuga, the opposition is really a joke. CUF in ZNZ.. thts real. They keep winning alafuwanapotezwa.. 2010 itakuwa tamu.SIASA ZETU CHANGA SANA.....MNO>
     
  18. Field Marshall ES

    Field Marshall ES JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu K,

    Unazo some points, kuna ambazo sikubaliani nazo, lakini I am tired na kumjadili Mwalimu, ninamuombea tu kwa Mungu apumzike kwa amani,

    Kidogo tu on some of your points, Lowassa alipewa a second chance na inapaswa kuwa hivyo, sio kwa sababu Mwalimu alisema basi iwe political death sentence, maana kina Mkapa alisema Mr. Clean, ikawa Mr. Chafu, meaning kwamba pamoja na msimamo mzito aliokuwa nao Mwalimu, pia alikuwa na mapungufu, ndio maana ninasema tumuache tu mzee wa watu apumzike kwa amani,

    alifanya aliyoweza, kuna mazuri na mabaya, lakini tunamsamehe kwa kuwa tunaamini kuwa hakuwa na nia mbaya kwa taifa kwa kila alioyafanya, as opposed na viongozi wetu wengi wa sasa.
     
  19. M

    Mafuchila JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu Jasusi,
    Asante sana kwa msimamo wako.Mkuu Jasusi, siku zote nakuheshimu kwa hili la kujadili hoja na siku zote nakuchukulia kuwa ni mmoja wa role model wangu katika hii forum. Kimsingi nakubaliana nawe kabisa kuhusu mapenzi ya mwalimu kwa taifa letu, I don't have doubt. Nakubaliana pia na kauli yako kuwa mwalimu aliumizwa sana na ubabaishaji wa Mkapa. Lakini binafsi, bado naona mwalimu hakuwajibika kutuletea viongozi bora. Katika hili nazingatia mchango wake katika kumlea Mwinyi kisiasa, na hata Mkapa baadaye kwa sababu moja kuu walikuwa 'good boys' kwake binafsi na sina uhakika kama walikuwa 'good boys' kwa taifa. Huku baadhi ya wanasiasa ambao wangeweza kuwa msaada mkubwa kwa taifa wakishindwa kufurukuta, simply hawakuwa 'good boys' kwa mwalimu.
     
  20. Kasheshe

    Kasheshe JF-Expert Member

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    Mafuchila,

    Mimi nina imani marais wastahafu hawa hawa Mh. Mzee wetu Benjamin William Mkapa na Mh. Mzee wetu Ali Hassan Mwinyi, wangekuwa marais kwenye jamii inayowajibika, inayofanya kazi tena kwa juhudi na maarifa bado hawa wazee wangekuwa mastaa wazuri sana.

    Tatizo letu tunajiondolea wajibu wetu na kudhani marais ndio wafanye kazi yetu! Nitawapa mfano... matatizo ya Richmond kwa asilimia kubwa yamechangiwa na wataalamu wasioheshimu taaluma zao kutoka wizarani, na pale ofisi ya mwanasheria mkuu... hii sio rais.

    Leo hii nakerwa sana kwamba watanzania wasiotoa kodi ndio mabingwa wa kutaka kufanyiwa kila kitu na serikali...

    Kwa kweli taifa hili ambalo zinatenganisha HAKI na WAJIBU hatuwezi fika popote... unapotaka HAKI pia tekeleza wajibu wako... Jiulize kwa mwezi/mwaka unachaingia serikali kipato cha kiasi gani kama kodi?

    Mwisho Mkapa aliitoa nchi mahali pabaya sana... nakumbuka UDSM, Mwinyi alipafanya pawe kama primary school. Mwinyi pia alituvusha vizuri kwenye siasa ya vyama vingi na mambo ya Utandawazi... tulikokosea... tulikosea, tuangalie tusijekosea tena....

    MUNGU IBARIKI TANZANIA.
     
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