Nani anaweza kuukosoa Ubepari wa Tanzania kama ulivyokosolewa Ujamaa?

[WildCard]

Tukipata namna nzuri ya kuhifadhi, kulinda na kutumia vizuri mali ya UMMA hatuhitaji UBEPARI wala UJAMAA. Wachina, WaVietnam na hata WaCuba ni wakali mno kwa wabadhirifu wa mali za UMMA. Wanazo sheria na maadili makali na wanayasimamia kwa nguvu zote bila kujali dunia nyingine ya wanaojiita wanaharakati wa haki za binadamu watasema nini.

Nchi za Scandinavia nazo wanasimamia sana maadili na uwazi katika kazi zao. Wana viwango vidogo mno vya rushwa au haipo kabisa. Kwao kama ilivyo Japan UONGOZI ni dhamana tu. Ukishindwa unaondoka haraka tena kwa heshima zote. Japan kwa miaka hii mitano wana Mawaziri Wakuu wastaafu zaidi ya wanne. Walichokifanya Japan ni kujenga taasisi zenye nguvu.

Zisizo na uhusiano wa mojakwamoja na vyeo na nafasi za kisiasa. Hapa kwetu ni mpaka pale Waziri Mkuu anapolalamika kuwa polisi wanasindikiza sukari kwenda Kenya ndipo hatua za muda tu zinachukuliwa. OCD, RPC, DCI na IGP wanaendelea na vyeo na nyadhifa zao kama kawaida!
Nchi kufanikiwa kuendelea na kuwaendeleza watu wake ni zaidi ya mifumo hii ya UJAMAA na UBEPARI.

 

[Ndahani]

Ubepari umechoka uko ICU. Ni suala la muda tu kabla nao haujatafuta another means ya kuendelea kuwepo maana wanaonufaika ni some few guys with ability to take for granted the others.

 

[VoiceOfReason]

Ubepari kwangu mie yet haunipi picha halisi ya kimaendeleo ni kuwa unajenga umimi sana na urafi uroho na ndio chanzo cha kuweka gap kubwa kwa walio nacho na wasio nacho

Mkuu ni kweli kabisa kinachowezekana nchi nyingine huenda ikawa vigumu kufanya kazi nchi nyingine bila mabadiliko....; huenda ni kweli system ya nchi ambayo ina mali ya kutosha (natural resources..) watu wake sio wasomi sana wala sio wachapakazi na watu wa kujituma huenda Ujamaa ulikuwa best suited. (au Social Democracy) ambapo ingawa uchumi ni privately owned lakini state inakuwa na uangalizi mzuri as well as kutoa kodi ambayo inaweza ikatoa huduma kwa majority kama Nordic Countries...

Lakini utaona kwamba huu mfumo ni vigumu kufanya kazi kwa nchi kama marekani ambao watu ni wengi na ni vigumu kwa state kuchukua huu mzigo wa kuwaangalia watu kama ilivyo kwa Nordic countries..., vile vile utaona kwamba hata China wana mfumo wao wa ubepari ambao ni tofauti na sehemu nyingine..., UK pia ni mabepari ingawa health care ni bure tofauti na America ambapo hata hii sio bure...

Utaona kwamba ile free market ya Hayes ni tofauti na America wanachokifanya ambacho ni Keynes kwamba state inaingilia hapa na pale na kuinject funds na kufanya bail-outs za hapa na pale ambazo zinafanya watu hata wasiogope kutumbua pesa ambazo sio zao wakijua kwamba kosa likifanyika state itaingilia kati na kuwasaidia...

Kwahiyo mkuu ndio maana nikasema kwa Tanzania hapa tulipo sasa ni bora hata Ujamaa wa Nyerere ambapo tulikuwa hatugawi maliasili zetu kuliko sasa tunavyozigawa bure..., (this has nothing to do na mfumo wowote wa kisiasa bali ni ulimbukeni..)

Kuhusu classical socialism tumeshaona kwamba ni vigumu kufanya kazi kwa nchi za viwanda sababu kutokuwa na ushindani wa kutosha kunafanya watu kubweteka na quality inapungua na watu kutokujali..., lakini kwenye soko huria ushindani unashusha bei na kufanya product kuwa nzuri zaidi (wakati apple anakuja na iphone mwingine anakuja na kitu kingine kizuri zaidi...) n.k.

Lakini kwa Tanzania we dont really need ubepari ku-thrive na kutokana na watu wetu ambao wengi wanahitaji welfare (social democracy huenda ikafaa zaidi).., we have nothing to loose tuna mataji wa kutosha wa madini na maliasili nyingi na kwa population yetu udhibiti unaweza ukatunufaisha wote..., (hata Gaddaffi aliweza kwa Libya kutokana na utajiri wa nchi yake kulingana na idadi ya watu wake, pamoja na kwamba alijilimbikizia mali..)

 

[Tata]

Mwanakijiji kwanza nikushukuru kwa kuanzisha mjadala huu unaotutaka tutumie vichwa kuainisha matatizo ya kimfumo yanayotukabili. Umeeleza vyema kuhusu ujamaa na ubepari na jinsi ambavyo mifumo yote hii miwili imeshindwa kwa dalili zinazofanana.

Ukiangalia kwa undani utagundua kuwa hakuna tofauti kati ya hii mifumo miwili. Mfumo unaodhaniwa kuwa ni wa kijamaa huwa una mabepari wachache wenye kuhodhi raslimali za nchi kwa kupitia kwenye vyama tawala kwa dhana ya chama kushika hatamu. Mabepari hawa ni viongozi wabinafsi wa chama na serikali ambao kimsingi huwa wanaamua mali ya umma itumike vipi na kwa manufaa ya nani. Mabepari hawa wa kijamaa hufikia kiwango cha kuanzisha mfumo wa kitawala wa kifalme kama ilivyo korea kaskazini na kuwafungia nje watu ambao hawana uhusiano wa kinasaba na viongozi kwenye masuala ya uongozi.

Ubepari nao umejengwa kwenye ubinafsi ambao unalenga kupata faida kwa mabepari wachache wanaoshika hatamu za kiuchumi na kisiasa. Katika mfumo huu serikali huwa ni vibaraka wa matajiri wakubwa na sera za serikali hutegemea hawa mabepari wanataka nini. Ndio maana sio ajabu serikali ya marekani kutumia mabilioni kuwaokoa matajiri wakubwa wasifilisike kwani kimsingi wao ndio waajiri wakubwa wa serikali hiyo.

Hapa Tanzania tulijaribu kujenga ujamaa lakini hatukufanikiwa na walewale waliokuwa mabepari wa kijamaa walipopata fursa waliachana haraka haraka na juhudi za kujenga ujamaa na badala yake wakaanzisha UFISADI walioubatiza jina la UBEPARI. Kwa ufupi kinachoendelea sasa Tanzania siyo ubepari bali ni ufisadi tu na wizi wa mali za umma. Kitu pekee kinachounganisha Ubepari na Ufisadi ni UBINAFSI uliokithiri na usiojali mustakabali wa nchi na wananchi walala hoi.

 

[Mkandara]

Mwanakijiji,
Katika Interview hii ya Nyerere nawaomba msomeni sehemu niliyoiweka bold akizungumzia Ubepari na wallstreet!..

CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: You mentioned the one-party rule in your country where you were president for four terms during which time you promoted the principle of "Ujamaa," socialism, and you have acknowledged that it was a miserable failure. What lessons, in retrospect, do you draw from that and the kind of economies that African countries might more profitably pursue?

JULIUS NYERERE: Where did you get the idea that I thought "Ujamaa" was a miserable failure?

CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: Well, I read that you said socialism was failure; the country economically was in shambles at the end of the experiment.

JULIUS NYERERE: A bunch of countries were in economic shambles at the end of the 70s. They are not socialists. Now, today it needs so much courage to talk about socialism, therefore, perhaps we should change the phraseology, but you have to take in the values of socialism which we were trying to build in Tanzania in any society.

CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: And those values are what?

JULIUS NYERERE: And those values are values of justice, a respect for human beings, a development which is people-centered, development where you care about people you can say leave the development of a country to something called the market which has no heart at all since capitalism is completely ruthless, who is going to help the poor, and the majority of the people in our countries are poor. Who is going to stand for them? Not the market. So I'm not regretting that I tried to build a country based on those principles. You will have to--whether you call them socialism or not--do you realize that what made--what gave capitalism a human face was the kind of values I was trying to sell in my country.

CHARLAYNE HUNTER-GAULT: So what's the answer? Because, with all due respect, the economy of Tanzania did not thrive under the socialism that you practiced. So what is the--what do you see as the answer for African countries which are still predominantly poor?

JULIUS NYERERE: The problem is not a question of socialism. You have to deal with the problem of poverty. You have to deal with the problem of poverty in your country, and your country is not socialist, or we're in trouble. People in rich countries don't realize the responsibility of handling poverty in countries like mine. But those countries will develop. Countries in Africa are poor, both capitalists and socialists, and today we don't have a single one with these socialists.

Source:- Hapa

 

[Jethro]

Mkuu ni kweli kabisa kinachowezekana nchi nyingine huenda ikawa vigumu kufanya kazi nchi nyingine bila mabadiliko....; huenda ni kweli system ya nchi ambayo ina mali ya kutosha (natural resources..) watu wake sio wasomi sana wala sio wachapakazi na watu wa kujituma huenda Ujamaa ulikuwa best suited. (au Social Democracy) ambapo ingawa uchumi ni privately owned lakini state inakuwa na uangalizi mzuri as well as kutoa kodi ambayo inaweza ikatoa huduma kwa majority kama Nordic Countries...

Lakini utaona kwamba huu mfumo ni vigumu kufanya kazi kwa nchi kama marekani ambao watu ni wengi na ni vigumu kwa state kuchukua huu mzigo wa kuwaangalia watu kama ilivyo kwa Nordic countries..., vile vile utaona kwamba hata China wana mfumo wao wa ubepari ambao ni tofauti na sehemu nyingine..., UK pia ni mabepari ingawa health care ni bure tofauti na America ambapo hata hii sio bure...

Utaona kwamba ile free market ya Hayes ni tofauti na America wanachokifanya ambacho ni Keynes kwamba state inaingilia hapa na pale na kuinject funds na kufanya bail-outs za hapa na pale ambazo zinafanya watu hata wasiogope kutumbua pesa ambazo sio zao wakijua kwamba kosa likifanyika state itaingilia kati na kuwasaidia...

Kwahiyo mkuu ndio maana nikasema kwa Tanzania hapa tulipo sasa ni bora hata Ujamaa wa Nyerere ambapo tulikuwa hatugawi maliasili zetu kuliko sasa tunavyozigawa bure..., (this has nothing to do na mfumo wowote wa kisiasa bali ni ulimbukeni..)

Kuhusu classical socialism tumeshaona kwamba ni vigumu kufanya kazi kwa nchi za viwanda sababu kutokuwa na ushindani wa kutosha kunafanya watu kubweteka na quality inapungua na watu kutokujali..., lakini kwenye soko huria ushindani unashusha bei na kufanya product kuwa nzuri zaidi (wakati apple anakuja na iphone mwingine anakuja na kitu kingine kizuri zaidi...) n.k.

Lakini kwa Tanzania we dont really need ubepari ku-thrive na kutokana na watu wetu ambao wengi wanahitaji welfare (social democracy huenda ikafaa zaidi).., we have nothing to loose tuna mataji wa kutosha wa madini na maliasili nyingi na kwa population yetu udhibiti unaweza ukatunufaisha wote..., (hata Gaddaffi aliweza kwa Libya kutokana na utajiri wa nchi yake kulingana na idadi ya watu wake, pamoja na kwamba alijilimbikizia mali..)

Mkuu Voice of Reason,

Nimekukubali mkuu na nimepata lecture nzuri haswa kwenye "Social Democracy" esp kwa wenzetu wa Scandinavian Countries, Na nikweli ulicho kisema Kwa tanzania kweli we've nothing to loose at all nadhani ni kweli ni ulimbukeni wetu na kutokubali kitu kinaitwa Changes na jinsi gani ya kukaliana na changes inapokuja hilo kwangu nadhani ndilo tatizo kubwa kwa sie watanzania hapo Mkuu ulisema ni ulimbukeni which is very right kabisa.

Kuna tataizo kubwa sana la watu au viongozi wetu kutokuja na vitu vipya na kufanya watu wengine wapate bali wao ndio wapate tuu, Hawa jui kujijengea majina na hekma kwa wananchi. Hawa viongozi tulio nao hawataki kabisa kujenga majina yao kwa kukumbwa kwa alichokifanyia nchi na ndio maana Mwl.Nyerere atabaki kuwa yeye Nchi hii kama hatokuja mwingine na fikra nzuri akawa miongoni mwa list ya watu watakao kumbukwa nchini kwetu.

Mkuu wakati mwingine ingawa Gadaffi kafanya mabaya na pia na mazuri lakini nae alikuwa ni mfano bora kwa upande wa maendeleo ingawa binadamu wote tuna mapungufu yetu at least viongozi wetu wafanye japo jema kwa watanzania na sio kuwa wanyonya nchi na kutpelekea kwenye machafuko

 

[Mwakalinga Bujo]

Tanzania hatuna misingi yoyote yakibebari,Ubebari wa Tanzani ni wa kinadharia zaidi.Ubebari wa kitanzania ni wa viongozi kuhujumu/kurubuni kwa manufaa yao mali/rasilimali za wazawa kwa wanaojiita mabepari ( maarufu kwa jina la uwekezaji).Huo ndio msingi mkubwa wa ubebari wetu.

Inasikitisha kama viongozi wanakuwa wanatizama MTV CRIBS then wanatamani kuishi kwenye nyumba kama zile bila kuangalia uwezo wa Taifa kimgawanyo wa rasilimali.Wengine ndio hao wamejionyesha wazi kwa kupiga picha na wasanii wa magharibi ( Boyz II Men,50Cent).

Hii ni dhahiri kuonyesha kuwa nchi haina wenyewe na wangependa hata watu wengine wafe ili wawaite Hao marafiki zao wanachuma mabilioni ya USD nchini mwetu na kuwajengea nyumba za 200,000/-USD na kuona wao wamamaliza.

Kimtazamo hawa si waumini wa Ubepari wala ujamaa,Kwa hiyo hawawezi kuweka misingi yoyote ya mambo wasiokuwa waumini wala kutoyajua.

Je ubepari wa Tanzania msingi wake ni uzalishaji, innovation, intellectual properties, technology, property rights?

 

[Mdondoaji]

Wakati wa kuvunjika kwa nchi za kijamaa ni ujamaa uliolaumiwa kwa matatizo ya kiuchumi ya nchi hizo. Wasomi wa Kimagharibi na wale wa nchi za kijamaa wenye mrengo wa kimagharibi walibebesha lawama mfumo wa ujamaa kuwa "umeshindwa" kuleta matumaini kwa wake. Ujamaa ulikosolewa kama ni mfumo wa njozi "utopia" wenyewe walisema. Nyerere aliwahi hata kuulizwa ni kwa namna gani "ujamaa ulishindwa" na yeye alijibu kuwa "utashindwa vipi wakati haujajalibiwa"?

Mkuu,

Nimeonelea nichangie katika mjadala huu kuhusu baina ya Ubepari na Ujamaa. Mwanakijiji lazima ufahamu kuwa mfumo wowote wa kiuchumi unategemeana na mazingira ya sehemu husika. Mifumo yote ya ubepari na ujamaa kuna faida zake na hasara zake. Kama alivyosema VOR huwezi kuchukua economic model ya China ukaenda kuitumia US haitaenda kwani kila mmoja ina mazingira tofauti.

Tuanzie what caused the current economic crisis sio kwamba mfumo wa ubepari umefail bali ni mfumo wa globalisation umefail kwani dunia ya sasa tumekuwa kama kijiji na matokeo yake tukafungua milango ya uwekezaji na uendeshaji wa serikali duniani. Mifumo ya mitaji ikawa huru kwa wawekezaji kutoka popote duniani kuwa na uwezo wa kuwekeza na kukopa duniani. Hilo limepelekea kuzalisha vitu vifuatavyo navyo ni Greedy, Risk taking, Lack of accountability. Greedy imetawaliwa na wawekezaji, lobbyist, na makampuni makubwa driven by their desire to do more and succeed. Kampuni kama Mcdonalds, Walmart, Toyota expand globally to capture more customers and expand profits. This eventually affected the local companies in those countries. Greece mfano halisi ni kuwa kampuni kubwa ziliiingia ugiriki na kuua makampuni madogo na matokeo yake wagiriki wakawa heavily dependant to foreign companies.

Vile vile greedy imepelekea kuongezeka kwa kiwango cha risk taking zaidi kuanzia miaka 2000 baada ya President Clinton kutia saini muswada wa kuvunja tofauti ya benki za biashara na benki za uwekezaji. Vile vile President Clinton aliporuhusu utumiaji wa financial derivatives which have contributed grossly to the financial meltdown. Matokeo ya miswada hii kuruhusiwa ni kwamba benki na baadhi ya sekta za fedha zikaanza kugawa pesa kama pipi kwa mategemeo ya kuongeza mapato yao na faida. Hivyo basi excessive risk taking nayo imechangia nayo kuongezeka kwa kiwango ukuaji wa tatizo hilo duniani. Mfano hai ni juzi pale mfanyakazi wa UBS anaitwa Adoboli alipoingiza benki yake hasara ya $2.3 Billion kutokana na transactions zake katika financial derivatives. Matokeo yake benki ya UBS inabidi irikodi kupata hasara mwaka huu na mkurugenzi wake mkuu tayari ameachia ngazi kutokana na scandal hiyo. Aftermath of this risk taking ni kwamba benki nyingi zilikuwa hazijui faida inatoka wapi na risk exposure na mwishoe hizo benki zikaja kuanguka mwaka 2008 mojawapo ilikuwa Lehman Brothers.

Tatu ni kukosekana kwa accountability hili ni suala la utawala bora na ufatiliaji. Moja kati ya matatizo waliyonayo marekani na nchi za magharibi ni jinsi gani ya kuwasimamia na kuwafatilia private companies na investors. Marekani ni mmoja ya nchi zinaomini mfumo wa free market economy ila tatizo limeonekana kuwa free market bila usimamizi limeleta anguko la mabenki na kupotea kwa pesa nyingi pamoja na kukopa kusikokuwa na mpango. Kinachoendelea sasa kukosekana kwa uwajibikaji kwani benki zilikuwa hazina mtu wa kufatilia wanachokifanya, vile vile serikali kama Marekani na nchi za ulaya zilifurahia kukopa kutoka kwenye capital markets bila ya kuwa ufatiliaji wa pesa wanazokopa wakiamini ni ngumu sana serikali kufilisika. Mwishoe wamezidiwa na madeni.

Tanzania nayo ina matatizo kama yaliyoikumba dunia ya nchi zilizoendelea ila mtazamo tofauti kidogo. Tanzania lacks accountability among political leaders, Tanzania has got greedy politicians and certain individuals, Tanzania ina tatizo la watu wasiopenda kufanya kazi na kutaka kujiletea maendeleo yao wenyewe. Hivyo yote hayo kwa pamoja yanachangia kuleta umaskini na matatizo. Hakuna economic model yeyote itakayofanya kazi pasina kwanza tukayatatua matatizo haya ya viongozi na wanasiasa wabinafsi, kukosekana kwa uwajibikaji serikalini na viongozi wakuu na taifa lisilochapakazi. Tusidanganyane wakuu.

 

[Companero]

Tanzania kuna kitu Shivji, kwa kumnukuu Rweyemamu, anakiita 'perverse capitalism'

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Labda niwaulize wakuu wangu katika kuelezea kile ambacho nakiita ni "asili ya Ubepari" - the essence of Capitalism. Hivi ni kwanini makampuni ya kibepari ya Marekani na hata Uingereza na Ujerumaini yanajenga viwanda vya kuzalishia mazao yao kwenye nchi kama China, Mexico na nchi zinazoendelea? Ni kwa sababu wanataka kuzisaidia nchi hizo kuinua kiwango cha hali ya maisha ya watu wake? Au ni kitu gani hasa kinafanya makampuni hayo badala ya kujenga viwanda vingi nchini mwao ambako kuna tatizo la ajira wanaenda kujenga nje ya nchi zao?

 

[jmushi1]

Labda niwaulize wakuu wangu katika kuelezea kile ambacho nakiita ni "asili ya Ubepari" - the essence of Capitalism. Hivi ni kwanini makampuni ya kibepari ya Marekani na hata Uingereza na Ujerumaini yanajenga viwanda vya kuzalishia mazao yao kwenye nchi kama China, Mexico na nchi zinazoendelea? Ni kwa sababu wanataka kuzisaidia nchi hizo kuinua kiwango cha hali ya maisha ya watu wake? Au ni kitu gani hasa kinafanya makampuni hayo badala ya kujenga viwanda vingi nchini mwao ambako kuna tatizo la ajira wanaenda kujenga nje ya nchi zao?

Mwanakijiji ubepari si wa kila Taifa ama jamii.Nchi yenye masikini wengi ku practice ubepari ni ni ujinga usio kifani.Ubepari hauna mazingira ya kuwawezesha masikini.Una mianya ambayo inaweza kuwasaidia baadhi wakatoka kwenye umasikini.Lakini mfumo wenyewe hauna maslahi na watu masikini.Kwenye nchi zenye mifumo ya kibepari bado wana programs zenye kuneutralise hilo ie social security nk.Na ndiyo maana kama interview aliyobandika Makandara hapo juu ya mwalimu,alisema kabisa ubepari hauna maslahi na masikini.Na kwamba taifa lake lina masikini wengi.Kwahiyo unaweza kuona kwamba malengo yake yalikuwa ni kutuondoa kwenye umasikini.

Kujibu swali lako hapo juu,ni just mwendelezo wa hoja yangu kuwa ubepari una wenyewe.Wao kwenda ku invest huko China nk ni basi tu kuspread their sphere of influence.Ndo ubepari huo,wana ile dhana ya kumweka karibu zaidi adui yako.Ndo maana hata uko uarabuni wako licha ya kupinga kwao hao waarabu wenye siasa kali kwenye hata baadhi ya culture zao ambazo wanadhani ni hatarishi dhidi ya mfumo wao huo wa kibepari.

Kuwekeza kwao kwenye nchi hizo ulizozitaja ni mikakati na si kwamba wanawapenda sana hao wananchi ama nchi hizo kuliko zao.Ama labda ni bahati mbaya tu,no,whatever happens in the future kwenye hizo nchi,basi watakuwa na mkono wao.Kwani huoni walivyofanikiwa mfano issue ya Hong Kong ambapo ile ni China lakini sasa ina practice autonomous?Na wako backed up na nchi za kibepari ie US?

Ukitaka uwe bepari ni lazima ujuwe na kwenda kuvamia nje ya nchi yako.Ni the fight which only the fittests survives.Ndo ubepari huo.Ila kama nilivyosema hapo nyuma,kuna mabadiliko madogo madogo ambayo mimi nayaita mianya,kama vile ambavyo tunaona kuna socialistic practices kwemye mataifa ambayo yanapreach capitalism.Issue kama social services zinazokuwa provided na serikali zenye kudai ku practice ubepari ie US na pia issue kama corporate social responsibility wanazozipractice hao corporates.

Kuhusu ni mfumo gani taifa letu unafuata kwa kweli ni shida kutambua since hatuna dira wala mwelekeo.Ni lazima kwanza uongozi wetu uwe na priorities za kitaifa ambazo ni people centered kama alivyosema mwalimu kuwa ni kwanini alifuata mfumo wa socialism.Sasa viongozi wetu hawana priorities ambazo ni people centered,either kwa kutokujua ama kwa makusudi kabisa.Kwa hiyo ukimwaliza JK sijui atakujibu nini kwasababu yeye alishawahi kusema hajui kwanini sisi ni masikini.Kwa hiyo ina maana hajui kuwa tuna mfumo gani na kama ndo umetusababishia haya matatizo ama la.Ni lazima kwanza uoanishe malengo ya Taifa na hali halisi ya uchumi na wananchi wako kabla hujajuwa ni mfumo gani wa utumike.

Watu hawaumizi vichwa kabisa siku hizi na uongozi umekuwa kazi rahisi sana ya kutumikia corporations na kuomba misaada tu basi.Watu ni viongozi lakini they are in there for themseleves.Ile dhana ya kuwatumikia wananchi ikiwa haipo,basi hata kutaka kujuwa mfumo gani tunao ni ngumu sana.Tunapelekeshwa mno na viongozi wetu ni vichwa maji!Ni mfumo wa kifisadi tu ndo jina lake kwa sasa.Ngoja niendelee kufikiri kidogo labda nikipata jibu nitarudi.

 

[Mdondoaji]

Labda niwaulize wakuu wangu katika kuelezea kile ambacho nakiita ni "asili ya Ubepari" - the essence of Capitalism. Hivi ni kwanini makampuni ya kibepari ya Marekani na hata Uingereza na Ujerumaini yanajenga viwanda vya kuzalishia mazao yao kwenye nchi kama China, Mexico na nchi zinazoendelea? Ni kwa sababu wanataka kuzisaidia nchi hizo kuinua kiwango cha hali ya maisha ya watu wake? Au ni kitu gani hasa kinafanya makampuni hayo badala ya kujenga viwanda vingi nchini mwao ambako kuna tatizo la ajira wanaenda kujenga nje ya nchi zao?

Tukiweka pembeni conspiracy from some members in this thread sababu kubwa ya baadhi ya kampuni kwenda China, Brazil na nchi kama Malaysia and Singapore ni hizi:-

a. Cheap resources kama labour, natural resources.
b. Tax exemption and tax heavens offered by developing economies.
c. Demand for the product produced (mfano kampuni kama Tesco, Walmart, BMW, Bentley, Mercedes Benz wamefungua manufacturing industry and shopping centre in Asia for that reason).

Kama nilivyosema the fundamental principle of capitalism is greedy na hivyo wanapoamua kufungua viwanda hizo nchi huwa malengo yao sio kuleta maendeleo bali maximization of their profit at minimum costs.

I do not agree with socialism either since haingii akilini kuwa watu tugawane keki ya mafanikio wakati baadhi yetu hawafanyi kazi na wengine wachache wanafanya kazi kwa kigezo cha usawa. Hilo siliungi mkono kabisa. Labda Social Democracy or Liberalism I will subscribe to that kwani inajumuisha kidogo capitalism na pia socialism in certain aspect of the society kama afya, unemployment na social welfare.

hivyo misingi hiyo Mwanakijiji haiwezi kuja mpaka tuwe tayari tushakuwa tumejiwekea misingi wa uchapakazi na uwajibikaji. Vyenginevyo tunaongea tu kama ndugu zetu wa Kenya wanavyotusema sisi watanzania ni watu wa maneno mingi no action.

 

[VoiceOfReason]

Labda niwaulize wakuu wangu katika kuelezea kile ambacho nakiita ni "asili ya Ubepari" - the essence of Capitalism. Hivi ni kwanini makampuni ya kibepari ya Marekani na hata Uingereza na Ujerumaini yanajenga viwanda vya kuzalishia mazao yao kwenye nchi kama China, Mexico na nchi zinazoendelea? Ni kwa sababu wanataka kuzisaidia nchi hizo kuinua kiwango cha hali ya maisha ya watu wake? Au ni kitu gani hasa kinafanya makampuni hayo badala ya kujenga viwanda vingi nchini mwao ambako kuna tatizo la ajira wanaenda kujenga nje ya nchi zao?

Mkuu its all about profit.., nothing more nothing less....; kwenye competitive market you either compete or die a natural death.., kwahiyo haya makampuni yanatafuta the highest possible profit..., kwanini wajenge kiwanda UK au America ambapo kumejaa unions, watu wavivu na wanataka payment kubwa (high cost of labour...)

Kwahiyo its only natural wataenda kule ambako unit cost of production ni ndogo... jinsi ya kuwakamata hawa jamaa ni kuwalima kodi kubwa tu kila unapowapata; lakini sababu ya kuwa na pesa nyingi always wapo one step ahead kutafuta loopholes za kutokulipa kodi husika.. (but in our case hawana njia sababu we have got all the cards... (though we are not using them)

Mbaya zaidi huku kwetu hata hio kodi tunawasamehe..., sijui tunataka nini kuwaona tu wanakuja na kuchota (kweli alietuloga alishakufa..!!!) na sababu raw materials ni zetu tungeweza kuwalazimisha wafanye processing ya mambo mengi hapa ili tuongeze ajira lakini na mchanga tunawaambia pelekeni tu mkatoe ajira sehemu nyinigine (yaani wameshika panga kweli makali na sisi kwenye mpini lakini tunawaambia nyie shikeni mpini ili mtukate vizuri..) This Country..!!! Very Disappointing.. na siku tukishituka madini yamekwisha sijui what are we going to show kwamba atleast this was made because of our resources

Pia sisi hata vile viwanda vyetu tumeamua kuviua na kufanya warehouses na mazalio ya mbu (sijui huu ndio Ubepari wa wapi...?) yaani tunashindwa hata kutengeneza nguo za kuweza kuwavalisha wanajeshi wetu wote na wanafunzi wote wa Tanzania nzima..?

 

[Arafat]

Je ubepari wa Tanzania msingi wake ni uzalishaji, innovation, intellectual properties, technology, property rights?

Mwanakijiji kama wapo basi nchni haiwatumii hivyo tunakuwa kama hatuna intellectuals kabisa maana mi naona wanasiasa wetu ndio wanaoamua kila kitu hapa nchni na ndio Alfa na Omega wa sera na hatima ya Taifa.

 

[Arafat]

Mkuu hio ndio kazi ya government ni governing;...

Private owners wote Mkuu wanapewa subsidy na Serikali kuu, kwa hao Mabepari; sasa hapo kwenye Governing..Je una maana sisi hatuna Government maana hakuna wanachokisimamia kwa maslahi ya Watanzania au kipo?.

 

[DSN]

Labda niwaulize wakuu wangu katika kuelezea kile ambacho nakiita ni "asili ya Ubepari" - the essence of Capitalism. Hivi ni kwanini makampuni ya kibepari ya Marekani na hata Uingereza na Ujerumaini yanajenga viwanda vya kuzalishia mazao yao kwenye nchi kama China, Mexico na nchi zinazoendelea? Ni kwa sababu wanataka kuzisaidia nchi hizo kuinua kiwango cha hali ya maisha ya watu wake? Au ni kitu gani hasa kinafanya makampuni hayo badala ya kujenga viwanda vingi nchini mwao ambako kuna tatizo la ajira wanaenda kujenga nje ya nchi zao?

Hiyo mikakati ya kujenga viwanda vyao ndani ya china kwa mtizamo wangu ni strategy za namna ya kuziua kiuchumi Nchi hizo,Mfano mlengwa mkuu wao ni China, ni namna pia ya kuziangusha kiuchumi mataifa ambayo ni ya kikomunist na yale ambayo ni mataifa tishio kwa uchumi wao.Mafanikio ya ya Japan nyuma yake,baba ya mafanikio hayo ni Marekani kwa kuwagawia kiduchu domestic technolojia wajapani.Leo hii tunalia na ubora wa bidhaa za China iweje kuwa kuwa mwenye ujuzi wa kugawa tekinolojia kagawa kwa mafungu akikusudia kwa makusudio yake binafsi.Japo hili linaonekana kama ni kichekesho ukweli kitekinolojia Taifa la Marekani na Ujerumani ni Mataifa yenye Heavy Industry Technology ambayo dunia nzima inatambua uwezo wa technology hiyo katika ujenzi wa uchumi bora duniani.


Kwa hotuba ya Obama mwezi huu ya Obama Joba Speech ni dalili ya mwelekeo wa hitimisho la kukamilisha mikakati yao Mataifa hayo makubwa duniani yenye matumizi ya akili kubwa zaidi na matumizi ya nguvu za kijeshi pale inapobidi.Wanakusudia kuludisha makampuni yao nyumbani hivyo kuondoa ajira kwa wachina.Matokeo yake ni mpasuko wa kiuchumi na kuzalisha migongano ya kiuchumi ndani ya Taifa husika.Ifuatayo china ni taarifa ya CIA juu ya uchumi wa China.

Since the late 1970s China has moved from a closed, centrally planned system to a more market-oriented one that plays a major global role - in 2010 China became the world's largest exporter. Reforms began with the phasing out of collectivized agriculture, and expanded to include the gradual liberalization of prices, fiscal decentralization, increased autonomy for state enterprises, creation of a diversified banking system, development of stock markets, rapid growth of the private sector, and opening to foreign trade and investment. China has implemented reforms in a gradualist fashion. In recent years, China has renewed its support for state-owned enterprises in sectors it considers important to "economic security," explicitly looking to foster globally competitive national champions. After keeping its currency tightly linked to the US dollar for years, in July 2005 China revalued its currency by 2.1% against the US dollar and moved to an exchange rate system that references a basket of currencies.

From mid 2005 to late 2008 cumulative appreciation of the renminbi against the US dollar was more than 20%, but the exchange rate remained virtually pegged to the dollar from the onset of the global financial crisis until June 2010, when Beijing allowed resumption of a gradual appreciation. The restructuring of the economy and resulting efficiency gains have contributed to a more than tenfold increase in GDP since 1978. Measured on a purchasing power parity (PPP) basis that adjusts for price differences, China in 2010 stood as the second-largest economy in the world after the US, having surpassed Japan in 2001.

The dollar values of China's agricultural and industrial output each exceed those of the US; China is second to the US in the value of services it produces. Still, per capita income is below the world average. The Chinese government faces numerous economic challenges, including:
(a) reducing its high domestic savings rate and correspondingly low domestic demand;
(b) sustaining adequate job growth for tens of millions of migrants and new entrants to the work force;
(c) reducing corruption and other economic crimes; and
(d) containing environmental damage and social strife related to the economy's rapid transformation. Economic development has progressed further in coastal provinces than in the interior, and approximately 200 million rural laborers and their dependents have relocated to urban areas to find work.

One consequence of the "one child" policy is that China is now one of the most rapidly aging countries in the world. Deterioration in the environment - notably air pollution, soil erosion, and the steady fall of the water table, especially in the north - is another long-term problem. China continues to lose arable land because of erosion and economic development. The Chinese government is seeking to add energy production capacity from sources other than coal and oil, focusing on nuclear and alternative energy development. In 2009, the global economic downturn reduced foreign demand for Chinese exports for the first time in many years, but China rebounded quickly, outperforming all other major economies in 2010 with GDP growth around 10%.

The economy appears set to remain on a strong growth trajectory in 2011, lending credibility to the stimulus policies the regime rolled out during the global financial crisis. The government vows, in the 12th Five-Year Plan adopted in March 2011, to continue reforming the economy and emphasizes the need to increase domestic consumption in order to make the economy less dependent on exports for GDP growth in the future. However, China likely will make only marginal progress toward these rebalancing goals in 2011. Two economic problems China currently faces are inflation - which, late in 2010, surpassed the government's target of 3% - and local government debt, which swelled as a result of stimulus policies, and is largely off-the-books and potentially low-quality.

 

[VoiceOfReason]

Hiyo mikakati ya kujenga viwanda vyao ndani ya china kwa mtizamo wangu ni strategy za namna ya kuziua kiuchumi Nchi hizo, Mfano mlengwa mkuu wao ni China, ni namna pia ya kuziangusha kiuchumi mataifa ambayo ni ya kikomunist na yale ambayo ni mataifa tishio kwa uchumi wao.

Mkuu kina nani hao..., ?; American Army ?, American Government ?, CIA..?, au Dell, Compaq, HP, Adidas au Nike ? katika utengenezaji wao wa bidhaa mfano Tshirt ya Nike ni bora waende India ambapo pamba ni nyingi na labour ni cheap; au Dell na Compaq ni rahisi kui-assemble China ambapo mshahara wa mtu mmoja Marekani unaweza kuwalipa watu kumi au zaidi China..? Kwa kufanya hivyo mwisho wa siku more money for them and their shareholders...

Mfano mzuri ni baada ya BMW ilivyoinunua Rover na kuwa na kiwanda chake UK BMW ilikuwa inapata hasara kila mwaka..., UK government ikawa inawalipa BMW ili wasifunge kiwanda ambacho kilikuwepo Solihull (B'ham UK) sababu kingefungwa watu wengi wangekosa ajira.., lakini baada ya muda BMW wakaona huu ni ujinga kuendekeza hasara wakajitoa na kuiuza Rover kwa kiasi cha 10 pounds (na hii ni kisheria tu ni sawa sawa na kama waliigawa bure..)

German car maker BMW AG completed the pull-out from its loss-making British Rover subsidiary on Wednesday, selling Land Rover to Ford Motor Co and sweetening the deal by agreeing to take on the unit's debt.

BMW said it would bear all of Land Rover's long-term debt as part of the three billion euro ($2.73 billion) sale. It declined to give the value of the debt, though media reports have said it could be as high as one billion marks ($465 million).

The sale comes two weeks after BMW sold Rover Cars to UK consortium Phoenix for a token 10 pounds and threw in a 500 million pound ($737 million) loan to ease its exit.

Ford will take over production of the four-wheel drive Range Rover, Discovery, Freelander and Defender models at Land Rover's Solihull manufacturing plant near Birmingham on June 30. It will also take charge of the Gaydon engineering and design centre.

The world's second-biggest car maker, which already owns the cherished British Jaguar and Aston Martin brands, will also take over Land Rover's dealer network and the British Motor Industry Heritage Centre, BMW said in a statement.


The agreement puts Ford in charge of 13,000 Land Rover workers. Earlier this month the company said it would end production of its own brand cars at its Dagenham plant, near London, from the first quarter of 2002.

Hio Mkuu ilikuwa ni 2000 na sasa ninavyoongea nadhani Jaguar kiwanda kilishakufa na hio rover pia sina uhakika nadhani waliwauzia wahindi, hapo utaona kwamba serikali ilikuwa ilikuwa inajaribu kuzuia the inevitable kwa kunganganiza kiwanda kibakie UK wakati how can you compete wakati wewe unawalipa wafanyakazi wako pesa nyingi wakati wenzako wanalipa peanuts..., profit itatokea wapi..?

Kwahiyo mkuu utaona watake wasitake Asians countries wana big advantage kutokana na labour yao kuwa cheap than their counterparts hizi nchi zimebakia kuwa masoko... (and there is nothing they can do, unless they change their ways of living...)

 

[jmushi1]

Mkuu its all about profit.., nothing more nothing less....; kwenye competitive market you either compete or die a natural death.., kwahiyo haya makampuni yanatafuta the highest possible profit..., kwanini wajenge kiwanda UK au America ambapo kumejaa unions, watu wavivu na wanataka payment kubwa (high cost of labour...)

Kwahiyo its only natural wataenda kule ambako unit cost of production ni ndogo... jinsi ya kuwakamata hawa jamaa ni kuwalima kodi kubwa tu kila unapowapata; lakini sababu ya kuwa na pesa nyingi always wapo one step ahead kutafuta loopholes za kutokulipa kodi husika.. (but in our case hawana njia sababu we have got all the cards... (though we are not using them)

Mbaya zaidi huku kwetu hata hio kodi tunawasamehe..., sijui tunataka nini kuwaona tu wanakuja na kuchota (kweli alietuloga alishakufa..!!!) na sababu raw materials ni zetu tungeweza kuwalazimisha wafanye processing ya mambo mengi hapa ili tuongeze ajira lakini na mchanga tunawaambia pelekeni tu mkatoe ajira sehemu nyinigine (yaani wameshika panga kweli makali na sisi kwenye mpini lakini tunawaambia nyie shikeni mpini ili mtukate vizuri..) This Country..!!! Very Disappointing.. na siku tukishituka madini yamekwisha sijui what are we going to show kwamba atleast this was made because of our resources

Pia sisi hata vile viwanda vyetu tumeamua kuviua na kufanya warehouses na mazalio ya mbu (sijui huu ndio Ubepari wa wapi...?) yaani tunashindwa hata kutengeneza nguo za kuweza kuwavalisha wanajeshi wetu wote na wanafunzi wote wa Tanzania nzima..?

Mkuu its deeper than that.Unachozungumzia wewe ni yale yaliyoko wazi kabisa, (profit maximization/higher profits)Hata hiyo ndiyo imekuwa sababu kubwa ya outsourcing ambayo imewacost, (Kwa namna flani ie incr unumployement etc)

Lakini ukiangalia deeper utaona kuwa wako encouraged na mfumo wakisaidiwa na sera za serikali yao kufanya wanayoyafanya.Ukweli ni kwamba serikali zao pia zinatambuwa kuwa hawawezi kushusha kodi kwa kiasi cha kuweza kushindana na mataifa hayo kwani kuna other factors kama cheap labor and RM respectivelly.

Na ndiyo maana hawawezi kukubali eti mchanga uchambuliwe hapo.Still serikali yao inawaprotect wananchi wao na interests za mataifa yao in any means,na pia kuyaprotect maslahi ya Mataifa yao kuhakikisha sera bado zinazinufaisha corporations. Na ukiangalia kwa undani,corporations hizo ndizo zina lobby na pia kusapoti mgombea wao kuhakikisha anashinda uchaguzi ie urais.Ndiyo maana nikasema hapo nyuma kuwa ni lazima kuwe na misingi ya kuanzia kufikiri kuwa ni mfumo gani unatufaa.

Sasa hadi sasa ebu nieleze wewe sisi mfumo wetu ni upi na wakati mkakati mbinu wetu ni kuomba omba misaada ambayo ina strings attached? Wewe utampangia nani kuhusu pahala pa ku process RM na wakati unamtegemea in every means?Narudia,this is deeper na mkitaka kujadili vyema nendeni deep.Two cents for now,niko busy sana ila nitatafuta muda coz ni kweli thread hii inahitaji deep thinking.

 

[jmushi1]

Mkuu,

Nimeonelea nichangie katika mjadala huu kuhusu baina ya Ubepari na Ujamaa. Mwanakijiji lazima ufahamu kuwa mfumo wowote wa kiuchumi unategemeana na mazingira ya sehemu husika. Mifumo yote ya ubepari na ujamaa kuna faida zake na hasara zake. Kama alivyosema VOR huwezi kuchukua economic model ya China ukaenda kuitumia US haitaenda kwani kila mmoja ina mazingira tofauti.

Tuanzie what caused the current economic crisis sio kwamba mfumo wa ubepari umefail bali ni mfumo wa globalisation umefail kwani dunia ya sasa tumekuwa kama kijiji na matokeo yake tukafungua milango ya uwekezaji na uendeshaji wa serikali duniani. Mifumo ya mitaji ikawa huru kwa wawekezaji kutoka popote duniani kuwa na uwezo wa kuwekeza na kukopa duniani. Hilo limepelekea kuzalisha vitu vifuatavyo navyo ni Greedy, Risk taking, Lack of accountability. Greedy imetawaliwa na wawekezaji, lobbyist, na makampuni makubwa driven by their desire to do more and succeed. Kampuni kama Mcdonalds, Walmart, Toyota expand globally to capture more customers and expand profits. This eventually affected the local companies in those countries. Greece mfano halisi ni kuwa kampuni kubwa ziliiingia ugiriki na kuua makampuni madogo na matokeo yake wagiriki wakawa heavily dependant to foreign companies.

Vile vile greedy imepelekea kuongezeka kwa kiwango cha risk taking zaidi kuanzia miaka 2000 baada ya President Clinton kutia saini muswada wa kuvunja tofauti ya benki za biashara na benki za uwekezaji. Vile vile President Clinton aliporuhusu utumiaji wa financial derivatives which have contributed grossly to the financial meltdown. Matokeo ya miswada hii kuruhusiwa ni kwamba benki na baadhi ya sekta za fedha zikaanza kugawa pesa kama pipi kwa mategemeo ya kuongeza mapato yao na faida. Hivyo basi excessive risk taking nayo imechangia nayo kuongezeka kwa kiwango ukuaji wa tatizo hilo duniani. Mfano hai ni juzi pale mfanyakazi wa UBS anaitwa Adoboli alipoingiza benki yake hasara ya $2.3 Billion kutokana na transactions zake katika financial derivatives. Matokeo yake benki ya UBS inabidi irikodi kupata hasara mwaka huu na mkurugenzi wake mkuu tayari ameachia ngazi kutokana na scandal hiyo. Aftermath of this risk taking ni kwamba benki nyingi zilikuwa hazijui faida inatoka wapi na risk exposure na mwishoe hizo benki zikaja kuanguka mwaka 2008 mojawapo ilikuwa Lehman Brothers.

Tatu ni kukosekana kwa accountability hili ni suala la utawala bora na ufatiliaji. Moja kati ya matatizo waliyonayo marekani na nchi za magharibi ni jinsi gani ya kuwasimamia na kuwafatilia private companies na investors. Marekani ni mmoja ya nchi zinaomini mfumo wa free market economy ila tatizo limeonekana kuwa free market bila usimamizi limeleta anguko la mabenki na kupotea kwa pesa nyingi pamoja na kukopa kusikokuwa na mpango. Kinachoendelea sasa kukosekana kwa uwajibikaji kwani benki zilikuwa hazina mtu wa kufatilia wanachokifanya, vile vile serikali kama Marekani na nchi za ulaya zilifurahia kukopa kutoka kwenye capital markets bila ya kuwa ufatiliaji wa pesa wanazokopa wakiamini ni ngumu sana serikali kufilisika. Mwishoe wamezidiwa na madeni.

Tanzania nayo ina matatizo kama yaliyoikumba dunia ya nchi zilizoendelea ila mtazamo tofauti kidogo. Tanzania lacks accountability among political leaders, Tanzania has got greedy politicians and certain individuals, Tanzania ina tatizo la watu wasiopenda kufanya kazi na kutaka kujiletea maendeleo yao wenyewe. Hivyo yote hayo kwa pamoja yanachangia kuleta umaskini na matatizo.Hakuna economic model yeyote itakayofanya kazi pasina kwanza tukayatatua matatizo haya ya viongozi na wanasiasa wabinafsi, kukosekana kwa uwajibikaji serikalini na viongozi wakuu na taifa lisilochapakazi. Tusidanganyane wakuu.

Mkuu greediness ndo ubepari wenyewe mkuu.Na kwahiyo unapojaribu kuzungumza kama vile ni vitu viwili tofauti ndio hapo unapojipiga chenga mwenyewe kama ilivyo kwa Voice of reason na wengineo.I hope nitapata muda tuendelee na mjadala huu.Wenzenu mambo yao hayaji kwa bahati mbaya.Ni strategic plans.Sisi tunadandia kwa kuwa tunajuwa matokeo yake tu na hatujui how they planned.Na ndiyo maana unasema eti ni consipary theories.

 

[WildCard]

Labda niwaulize wakuu wangu katika kuelezea kile ambacho nakiita ni "asili ya Ubepari" - the essence of Capitalism. Hivi ni kwanini makampuni ya kibepari ya Marekani na hata Uingereza na Ujerumaini yanajenga viwanda vya kuzalishia mazao yao kwenye nchi kama China, Mexico na nchi zinazoendelea? Ni kwa sababu wanataka kuzisaidia nchi hizo kuinua kiwango cha hali ya maisha ya watu wake? Au ni kitu gani hasa kinafanya makampuni hayo badala ya kujenga viwanda vingi nchini mwao ambako kuna tatizo la ajira wanaenda kujenga nje ya nchi zao?

Kuna sababu kadhaa. Moja ni kuwa wanalifuata soko liliko. Mbili ni kuwa soko lao la ndani tayari limetoshelezwa au bidhaa zao hazihitaji sana ndani ya nchi zao. Tatu angalia viwanda vyenyewe wanavyojenga. Vingi ni kwa ajili ya assembling. Uzalishaji unabaki kwao. Nne tunawavutia wenyewe kwa vivutio ambavyo wakati mwingine navifananisha na prostitutes wafanyavyo kuwavutia wateja wao.