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Nani anaweza kuukosoa Ubepari wa Tanzania kama ulivyokosolewa Ujamaa?

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Mzee Mwanakijiji, Sep 25, 2011.

  1. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #1
    Sep 25, 2011
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    Wakati wa kuvunjika kwa nchi za kijamaa ni ujamaa uliolaumiwa kwa matatizo ya kiuchumi ya nchi hizo. Wasomi wa Kimagharibi na wale wa nchi za kijamaa wenye mrengo wa kimagharibi walibebesha lawama mfumo wa ujamaa kuwa "umeshindwa" kuleta matumaini kwa wake. Ujamaa ulikosolewa kama ni mfumo wa njozi "utopia" wenyewe walisema. Nyerere aliwahi hata kuulizwa ni kwa namna gani "ujamaa ulishindwa" na yeye alijibu kuwa "utashindwa vipi wakati haujajalibiwa"?

    Hivyo, nchi zilizofuata siasa za kijamaa - wa aina mbalimbali kuanzia Yugoslavia, Urusi, Vietnam na Tanzania zilibezwa na kweli baadhi ya wasomi wa nchi hizo waliaminishwa kuwa tatizo lilikuwa ujamaa kuwa ni mfumo usiotekelezeka. Tuliambiwa kuwa "the state" haiwezi kuendesha uchumi, na kuwa uchumi sahihi ni ule unaondeshwa na "nguvu ya soko". Wasomi wetu wakaandika nadharia za ubinafsishaji na kwa haraka - kwenye nchi kama ya kwetu - tukaanza kubinafsisha kila kitu kilichokuwa chetu.

    Hivyo kwa karibu miongo miwili ujamaa ulipuuzwa na kubezwa na kubebeshwa lawama ya matatizo ya nchi za kijamaa. Watu waliambiwa kuwa ujamaa ni mzuri vitabuni lakini ikija kwenye kuutekeleza ujamaa hautekelezeki. Matokeo yake ni kuwa kikaja kizazi cha wanasiasa ambao walikuwa ni waumini wa Ubepari. Wanasiasa na wasomi (intellectuals) wa zama hizi wakawa ndio watetezi wa mfumo huu mpya wa "soko huria". Hawa walitueleza uzuri wa "ushindani" na uzuri wa serikali kukaa pembeni na kuacha soko liamue.

    Matokeo yake hata vyama vya kijamaa kama CCM vikabadili mifumo yao na kukumbatia ubepari. Tena viliukumbatia hata bila kuukosoa kisomi (without intellectual criticism). Ni kana kwamba wasomi wote waliokuwa CCM wenye uwezo wa kufikiria na wengine maprofesa wakubwa tu walikalishwa chini na makuwadi wa ubepari na kuambiwa kuwa wasitumie ubongo wao kufikiri. Wanasiasa wake waliokuwa wanaamini katika ujamaa wa Nyerere wakausaliti kwa kukumbatia ubepari. Wakaanza kutuaminisha kabisa kuwa ni ubepari ndio utainua maisha ya watu wetu. Wakakaa Zanzibar wakavunja vunja misingi ya ubepari na wakauleta Ubepari tena walijaribu kuachilia kidogo lakini klichokuwa kilikuwa ni mafuriko.

    Lakini leo hii Tanzania inafuata mfumo wa ubepari na watu hawafurahii. Maskini wa Tanzania hawajainuka na kuanza kufurahia ubepari. Hatusikii watu wakiimbia nyimbo za kuusifia mfumo huu. Kuna uwezekano mkubwa tu kuwa aliyekuwa maskini ameendelea kuwa maskini na aliyekuwa ana nafasi kidogo ya kufanikiwa ameendelea kuwa na nafasi hiyo na wale waliokuwa na nafasi zaidi za kufanikiwa wameendelea kufanikiwa. Ubepari unaonekana haujawa suluhisho la matatizo yetu.

    Lakini siyo kwetu tu. Nchi karibu zote ambazo zimekuwa zikifuata Ubepari kwa miongo kadha wa kadha leo ziko kwenye matatizo. Kuanzia Marekani, Ureno, Uingereza, Italia, Ubelgiji, Ugiriki n.k zimejikuta katika kile ambacho wenyewe wamekiita "global economic crisis". Lakini kitu pekee ambacho kinaunganisha nchi zote ambazo zimekuwa na tatizo hili zaidi ni - you guessed it - ubepari.

    Lakini ubepari hausemwi kuwa ndio chanzo. Kwamba vikolombwezo vya ubepari (features of capitalism) vimechangia kusababisha matatizo kama ilivyokuwa katika ujamaa. Wakati ujamaa ulilaumiwa kwa kuingiza serikali sana kwenye mambo ya uchumi leo hhii serikali hiyo hiyo inaitwa kufanya mengi kwenye mambo ya uchumi kinyume kabisa na roho ya ubepari - ambayo ni ubinafsi. Wakati katika ujamaa serikali zilikataliwa kutoa ruzuku kwa viwanda na biashara mbalimbali - na kwenye kama ya kwetu tulikubali bila kuhoji; wenzetu wanatarajiwa kutoa ruzuku hadi kwenye viwanda vyao vya magari, mabenki n.k ili kuvinusuru.

    Wakati nchi kama ya kwetu ilibezwa kwa kuwa na mfumo wa afya bure kwa wote na kuhakikisha kuwa kila mtu anayetaka elimu anaipata na matokeo yake wasomi wetu wakabuni mfumo wa "kuchangia" gharama ya za afya na elimu kwenye nchi za ubepari baadhi ya vitu hivi vinaendelea kutolewa bure au kwa bei ya chini sana kiasi kwamba ukilinganisha na nchi za kwetu utaona kuwa wananchi wetu wanalipia gharama ya juu sana za ya afya na elimu kutoka katika umaskini wao.

    Nimebakia kujiuliza:

    a. Je matatizo ya uchumi ya dunia ya leo hii yanaweza kuangaliwa pasipo kuangalia the fundamentals of a capitalist system?
    b. Ubepari kama mfumo na jinsi tunavyoufuata utatuwezesha kweli kuondoka na umaskini?
    c. Chukulia mfano chama cha MMD cha Zambia ambacho kiliingia kukiondoa chama chenye mrengo wa kisoshalist cha Kaunda. MMD iliingia ikiwa na ahadi za mabadiliko makubwa ya kiuchumi na sera za kibepari. Lakini leo kimekataliwa kwa nini?
    d. Je Tanzania inao wasomi wenye uwezo wa kuukosoa Ubepari bila kuogopa matokeo ya ukosoaji huo kwa wanasiasa?
    e. Je kuna wasomi wanaoweza kufanya kile ambacho Nyerere alikiita "a new sythesis" ya mfumo wa uchumi ambayo itaangalia mazuri ya Ubepari na Ujamaa na kujaribu kupendekeza mfumo bora utakaoendana na maisha yetu kama Waafrika?
    f. Je wapo wanasiasa ambao wanaweza kusimama wazi na kuukosoa mfumo wa ubepari tunaojaribu kuujenga TAnzania bila kuogopa matokeo yake?
    g. Je vijana wetu wanaopitia kwenye vyuo vyetu vikuu - wanaosoma falsafa, political science or what have you - wanauwezo wa kufanya ukkosoaji wa mifumo hii ya uchumi au vipengele vyake bila kuonekana "wajamaa"?
    h. Je yawezekana Tanzania bado inayo nafasi ya kuwa na chama cha siasa ambacho kitakuwa kinamwelekeo wa kisoshalisti uliokosolewa sawasawa na hivyo kuendana na zama hizi za sasa za kisiasa na kiuchumi duniani?

    ANGALIA HABARI HII:
    [h=1]The battle of Broadway: Protesters clash with police as officers make 80 arrests during anti-capitalist march in Manhattan[/h] By Daily Mail Reporter

    Last updated at 4:56 AM on 25th September 2011


    Anti-capitalist protesters clashed with police in New York yesterday after beginning an impromptu march up one of the city's most famous streets.
    Police officers were accused of using overly-aggressive tactics as they battled to control the quick-moving demonstrators who left their camp near Wall Street to march up Broadway.

    Scores of 'Occupy Wall Street' demonstrators were arrested, cuffed with plastic tags and dragged on to sidewalks. One video showing a protester thrown to the floor by an officer with little provocation.
    Scroll down for video

    [​IMG]Arrested: Day #8 of the "Occupy Wall Street" protest, hundreds of protesters armed with signs and sleeping bags continued their Arab Spring-style public space occupation protest.



    [​IMG]Out: After sleeping for a seventh night in a nearby public square, Zuccotti Park (formerly called Liberty Plaza Park), the group marched on Wall Street


    Some protesters were calling: 'Banks got bailed out, we got sold out' and calling shoppers to join them. At least 80 protesters connected with the protest were held near Union Square in Manhattan.

    Protesters have been campedin Wall Street since last Saturday - sleeping on cardboard boxes, eating pizza and takeaway dinners that were paid for by donations to their cause.
    There are around 200 left in the makeshift camp, down from their peak of 1,500.
    'They're angry at what's going on in the world,' said Rich Marini, 37, a software writer from Great Kills whohas been taking part in the protest.


    [h=4]More...[/h]
    'But it's a good atmosphere. They have a sense of love with each other.'
    Mr Marini said the protest is driven by the fact that college kids are graduating only to find there are no jobs. 'They're putting the pieces together,' he added. 'And Wall Street is the main focus of that.'
    The 'Occupy Wall Street' protest is entering its second week. Demonstrators said they are protesting bank bailouts, the mortgage crisis and now the U.S. state of Georgia's execution of Troy Davis.

    [​IMG]Mix: Marchers represented various causes both political and economic


    [​IMG]Protest: The group marched on Wall Street, forcing police to close some streets, disrupting financial workers' commute, then onto Union Square

    At Union Square, police tried to corral the demonstrators using orange plastic netting. Some of the arrests were filmed and activists posted the videos online.
    Police say the arrests were mostly for blocking traffic. Charges include disorderly conduct and resisting arrest.
    But one demonstrator was charged with assaulting a police officer. Police say the officer involved suffered a shoulder injury.
    Protest spokesman Patrick Bruner criticised the police response as 'exceedingly violent' and said the protesters sought to remain peaceful.

    [​IMG]Nowhere: Protest spokesman Patrick Bruner criticized the police response as 'exceedingly violent' and said the protesters sought to remain peaceful

    West Brighton resident Richard Reichard, who works just above Wall Street, said it's important to remind Americans that it was the financial services industry that plunged the U.S. into recession.
    'And government was asleep at the switch,' he said.
    A barricade was set up to protect the NYSE building as protesters marched past it. Police watched proceedings carefully after a scuffle on Tuesday that led to seven arrests and an injured protester.
    Four more protesters were arrested Wednesday for disorderly conduct and released. Mr Marini said the NYPD has been 'rough' with the protesters.
    'They're picking off people they can arrest for any little thing,' he claimed.

     
  2. Ng'wanangwa

    Ng'wanangwa JF-Expert Member

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    Ninachojifunza hapa kwenye andiko lako mkuu ni kwamba Wamagharibi sasa wanajaribu kutenda kwa kadiri ya Ujamaa; tuseme tu tofauti na sisi, wao hawajakurupuka na ni kama vile hawataki dunia ijue wanaziishi baadhi ya sera za ujamaa.

    Kwa upande wetu, hata hivyo, nadhani tuliukumbatia ujamaa kimapokeo zaidi kama tulivyozipokea dini zao.

    But to say the least, these two stuff, Ujamaa na Ubepari are just too contradictory, na kikweli waliozaliwa masikini enzi za ujamaa na wanaendelea kuwa masikini vizazi na vizazi hata baada ya kuingia kwa huyu mdudu "Soko Huria".
     
  3. Companero

    Companero Platinum Member

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    Mkuu nitumie makabrasha, yaani hapa ndio nimetoka kumalizia kuandika mchanganuo wa mada ya ubepari Tanzania
     
  4. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #4
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    Komredi; yaani kaama kuna vitu naogopa sasa hivi ni kuwa tuna kizazi cha intellectuals ambao wamekariri "classical economy" ya kina Adam Smith kiasi kwamba hata kuhoji the functioning of supply, price and demand hawawezi wanajua tu kuwa hivyo vitatu vinauhusiano. Tuna watu ambao wameaminishwa kuwa ubepari unaendana na "private capital" kiasi kwamba wanaamini kabisa kuwa ni "private capital" ndio pekee inayoweza kuchochea uchumi wa kisasa. Matokeo yake ni kuwa tuna wasomi hasa vijana ambao hawana uwezo wowote tena wa kufanya ukosoaji yakinifu ya mifumo ya kisiasa au kiuchumi bila kuonekana wanatukuza ujamaa.

    Sasa hivi tuna watu wanaosimama na kusema kwa ujasiri "ujamaa umeshindwa, au Ubepari ndio njia sahihi" lakini ukiwawekea ushahidi wote wa kisayansi au hata wa kimantiki wa matatizo mbalimbali ya ubepari au uwezekano wa ubora wa ujamaa wanaona kama "unawarudisha wakati wa Nyerere". Hawa hawawezi kujiuliza kwanini nchi zilizofuata mfumo wa ubepari leo zina matatizo makubwa ya kiuchumi ambayo yanalingana kabisa na yale yaliyozikumbuka nchi za kijamaa kuelekea miaka ya tisini? Kukosekana kwa mitaji, ukosefu wa ajira, kupungua kwa uzalishaji, ufisadi n.k Yote ambayo yalitokea kwenye nchi za kijamaa tuliambiwa kuwa yanatokana na ujamaa lakini haya yanayotokea kwenye ubepari hatusikii watu wakisema yanahusiana na "ubepari" watatuambia kuwa ni makosa ya "taasisi" au "watu fulani" waroho! Maelezo kama hayo ukiwapa kuhusu ujamaa watakataa na kusema tatizo lilikuwa ni "mfumo wa ujamaa".

    Je Ubepari wa kina Adam Smith umeshindwa - tena baada ya kujaribiwa?
     
  5. Ng'wanangwa

    Ng'wanangwa JF-Expert Member

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    mkuu labda mimi nikiri kwanza kwamba kitaaluma, si mzuri sana wa masuala ya siasa na historia. lakini nina uwezo wa kuelewa maandiko mbali mbali hata kama hayahusiani na fani yangu hasa nikisoma na kusomna na kutafakari na kutafakari.

    labda niulize, unaposema
    ni kama vile unamaanisha Ubepari nao umeshindwa kama ulivyoshindwa Ujamaa, sivyo?

    Je waumini wa Ubepari na Ujamaa wanatambua hiyo similarity? What is the way forward?

    Naendelea kujifunza.
     
  6. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

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    Namaanisha ya kwamba matatizo ya kiuchumi ambayo yalilaumiwa kwa Ujamaa ndio yale yale ambayo leo tunayaona yanatokea kwenye Ubepari lakini hayahusishwi na ubepari. Ninauliza kuna wasomi wenye kuweza kuona hiyo similarity?

    Huu ndio msingi hasa wa swali langu. Kuna similarity ya aina hiyo au labda ni mimi na baadhi ya watu wengine wenye kuona hii paradox of sort ?
     
  7. VoiceOfReason

    VoiceOfReason JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu what caused the current economic disaster as well as the problems which started in late 2000...? Je ni Ubepari au ni gambles and greediness za mabenki as well as hedge funds corporations kutoa mikopo kwa watu ambao hawawezi kulipa as well as watu na nchi kutegemea bail-outs pale wanaposhindwa kulipa...?

    Kilichotokea hakina uhusiano na ujamaa wala ubepari ni tamaa and lack of common sense..; whats needed is an hybrid of a system depending na situation ya nchi yenyewe (tumeshaona jinsi state ambavyo haiwezi kusimamia mali kutokana na kukosa uchungu...) kwahiyo corporations and private sectors wapo better suited with a state putting checks and balances kuona kwamba hakuna abuse yoyote..

    Kwahiyo mkuu naungana mkono na wewe kwamba kila nchi inahitaji mfumo unaochukua mazuri yote (hybrid ) kulingana na nchi yenyewe mfano China.. (Capitalism with Chiniese Characteristics..) therefore we need whats works better for Tanzania lakini lets not take the current economic problems with sweeping comments kwamba Ubepari ume-fail... Lakini (History has taught us kwamba human greediness na umimi has made Ujamaa hard to be implemented).

    After all we have got all the raw materials and natural resources maybe all we need is to make sure kwamba kabla huu mtaji haujaisha tuwe tumeutumia vema kupata infrasture za kutosha mpaka enterior ili mimi ambae nipo mjini sasa hivi niweze kunywa maziwa yaliyokamuliwa asubuhi na bibi aliyopo nyuma ya mlima kule Mtwara (win win situation...) ; we are at a foundation level which we need to go back to the basics and what has worked or not worked in Cuba does not necessarily mean wont work here...

    Transparency na usimamizi wa maana ndicho kinachotakiwa hapa Tanzania...; whatever you might call it ujima; ubepari, ujamaa au Tanzania ubeujamaa
     
  8. Mwakalinga Y. R

    Mwakalinga Y. R Tanzanite Member

    #8
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    Umeandika Ukweli mwanakijiji.Ulimbukeni wa viongozi wenye fikra ndogo na wasio na maono ndio waliotufikisha hapa tulipo. Nadhani utakubaliana nami hawa Viongozi wa dini ya Ubepari walitumia nguvu nyingi kuweka serikali (puppet leaders) katika nchi mbalimbali kwa minajili ya kusambaza hiyo dini yao ya Ubebari huku wakitumia kitabu chao kitakatifu kinachosema kila kukicha marufu kwa jina la Democracy (theoretical democracy).

    Ila kwa wafuatiliaji wa mambo mfumo huu wa maisha (Ubepari ) umefikia tamati na hauna nguvu tena.

    Kurudi kwa Putin Russia kutaleta mabadililko makubwa sana ya kiuchumi Duniani kwani huyo ni mmoja wa ma liberal leaders kwa dunia ya sasa.
    Pia utakubaliana nami kuwa waumini wa ujamaa kama China na Russia wanakuja kwa kasi sana katika miaka hii ya hivi karibuni,kwani wamefanya muungano wao na nchi za Brazil na India- (BRIC -Brazil,Russia,India & China).

    BRICs may account for 41% of the world's market capitalization by 2030. Hiki ni kikashiria tosha kuwa USA ( Baba wa ubebari) atakuwa kama amebaki mwenyewe kwani ni dhairi waumini wake wengine kama UK,Japan,Italy, Belgium watakuwa taabani hawataweza kuhimili kasi ya BRIC.

    Pia hawa BRIC kwa sasa wanatanuka sana kwa vitendo ,kwani wanafadhili miradi mingi sana kwa LDC's ,wakati USA anafadhili kwa nadharia na propaganda zake za Democracy.

    Sory kama nimetoka kidogo nje ya mada ila nilijaribu kuonyesha ni jinsi gani Ubebari unavyokabiliwa na upinzani mkali dhidi ya waumini wa Socialism kutokana na kushindwa kuwa mkombozi wa maendeleo ya kiuchumi ,kijamii na kisiasa
     
  9. Arafat

    Arafat JF-Expert Member

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    Mwanakijiji mimi ninavyojuwa ni kuwa tatizo halikuwa sera za kijamaa hasa kwa nchni zetu maskini na ndio maana utakuta hizi nchni zilidiliki hata kuingia vitani na kuwekeana uhasama juu ya milengo hiyo miwili ya chumi. Bahati mbaya zaidi sisi ambao hatukuwa na wasomi wazuri walioelimika tulibaki kuongozwa na watu hovyo hovyo waliokalili aya za vitabu bila kujuwa zimetungwa kwa ajili gani, kumbuka kuwa tuliowaita na kuwaona ni wasomi wazuri ni wale ambao walifaulu vyema mitihani ya mashuleni wakati shule nyingi katika dunia hii zilizoshamili wakati huo na sasa ni zile zilizoanzishwa kimkakati kwa ajili ya kutekeleza azimio la watu wa waliokuwa wanaitwa wenye mlengo wa Magharibi.

    Maana halisi na tatizo lenyewe lipo katika Resources; nchni zilizoanzisha mlengo wa Kibepari zilikuwa nchni ambazo hazikuwa na natural resources za kutosha kuendesha chumi zao, na hivyo walijuwa iwapo siasa za Ujamaa kwa maana ya tafsiri ya wakati ule wao wasingeishi duniani kabisa. Huo ulikuwa Mkakati ambao hata wasomi wengi wengi na Prof wetu wengi bado hawajaling'amua hadi leo. Kama si kufa kwa Ujamaa hawa watu wasingepata nafasi ya kuingia katika nchni zilizo na abudence natural resources na kuchota na sasa kwa Africa wanachota zaidi na zaidi kwa sababu hatuna watu wenye vichwa, watu wengi na hata wasomi wetu hawajui lolote na hata ukiwasikia wanaongea unabaini bayana kuwa hawajui wanalo ongelea! Watu hawajitambui na bahati mbaya viongozi tunaopata ndio wagonjwa wa ubongo ajabu.

    Kwa mtu yoyote aliyesoma katika moja ya shule maarufu za nchni za Magharibi kama alikuwa makini atakuwa alijifunza mengi sana, na hata kuanzishwa kwa hizi University kubwa Duniani miaka ya 1800s ilikuwa ni matokeo ya tafiti zao ambazo lengo kubwa zilizopewa hizo Univesity ni kufanya tafiti na kuunda sera za kushawishi dunia katika mlengo ambao utawaweka sawa kuweza kuchota natural resources kutoka pande zingine za dunia ili nao waweze kuishi, ndio maana utaona walipofanikiwa kuzibuwa akili za watawala wetu kitu cha kwanza walichowekea mirija kwa hapa kwetu ni madini, mafuta na Gesi. Kilimo hawataki ili muwe njaa muendelee kukosa akili, maana mwenyewe njaa pia hafikiri vyema.

    Sijui mwisho wake nini, ila sisi tumezubaa na hatuna wasomi wa kweli na hata hatuji maana na lengo lililowekwa nyuma ya hizo nadharia hata wanaosoma na kwenda shule wengi wanakalili tu majibu kwa ajili kufaulu mitihani huku fikra zao zikiwa changa kama walivyozaliwa dunia.

    Hizi nchni zimekuwa na sera kama za kijamaa siku nyingi sana na wanazisimami na kuzitetea bayana. Kuna maeneo ambayo huwezi kugusa katika hizo nchni na wapo tayari kwa lolote ilimradi iwe kama wanavyotaka na kama walivyopanga, sisi yapo wapi hayo maeneo katika chumi zetu? Kama ulivyosema wewe mwenyewe UK tiba ni bule kwa kila mtu na huduma yote ya afya hadi quality ya vyakula madukani, aina ya bia zinazozalishwa na hata aina ya vipimo vya vinywaji hilo halifanyiwi mchezo kila mtu anajuwa iweje sisi tuseme kuwa kuacha watu wafe bila tiba ndio siasa yetu?! US wamekuwa wakitoa ruzuku kwa viwanda hata vya watu binafsi pale ambapo kuna maslahi ya kitaifa miaka yote na hilo halina mzaha, Miundombinu ya maji safi, maji taka na barabara inasimamiwa barabara na serikali katika nchni zote za Kibebari tokea zamani na hawataki mzaha katika hayo.... Labda hatujachelewa kama tutapata watu wanajuwa nini ni nini siyo hawa tulionao ambao kwanza hata wao wenyewe hawajijui kabisa.

    Kosa kubwa tunalofanya ni kuacha siasa na vongozi wetu kuwa watu wapumbavu na wa hovyo hovyo eti tukidharau siasa kuwa ni upuuzi! Angalia wanasiasa wetu utajuwa shida zetu zinatoka wapi.
     
  10. T

    Topical JF-Expert Member

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    Ubepari si njia salama wala sahihi kwa ustawi wa jamii hasa jamii ya Kitanzania iliyo..anza na kuishi katika nadharia ya ujamaa ya Rais wa kwanza wa Tanzania..

    Kilichofuata baada ya fall of ujamaa ni tsunami ya kukosa upi ni muelekeo wa kitaifa kiuchumi na kisiasa, vyama vyote vikubwa ukiacha CUF imeeleza vema muelekeo wao kiuchumi.

    .mfano ukiangalia CCM huwezi kujua intellectually wanafuata siasa gani ya kiuchumi,

    .ukiangalia manifesto ya Chadema inafuata misingi na sera za ubepari ambao japoni nadra kusikia neno hilo kwenye midomo ya wanasiasa sijui wanaogopa, hawajui au hawana muelekeo pia..

    ..At least intellectually CUF wamesema wanafuata siasa ya Mlengo wa kati kwa kati (liberal democratic) maana yake kiuchumu kutakuwa balance kati ya state na soko huria...pro and cons zake ni mjadala wa kitaifa

    Ukiacha CUF, kama taifa hatujui tuendeshe vipi siasa e.g. russia system of managed democracy or american system tupo tupo tu..

    ..Ubepari ni unaceptable concept in Tanzania
     
  11. Cynic

    Cynic JF-Expert Member

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    Labda tujaribu ''liberals'' ambao wanauma na kupuliza kotekote, but tunao tz?
     
  12. Alexism

    Alexism JF-Expert Member

    #12
    Sep 25, 2011
    Joined: Aug 14, 2011
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    Mkuu ukipita juujuu na kufikilia juu juu unaweza pata shida katika kuelewa dhana nzima ya ubepari na ujamaa.W.Rodney aliwai kusema ukisahau historia unaweza potoka kabisa.Kuna jambo la msingi hapa tunabidi tuweke sawa kipi kianze na kipi kizuri zaidi.Mfano ubepari na ujamaa sera hipi inabidi ianze?

    Ukifatilia kihistoria nchi zilizo jenga ujamaa ni kwamba walianza na ubepari ambao ulikuwepo kwakutoka nje na baadae ndo wakajenga ujamaa mfn China na Russia hapa kwetu bila shaka ubepari ulikuwepo ingawa ulikuwa unaendeshwa na wakoloni dhidi ya wazawa kwahiyo ukashindwa kuwaandaa wananchi kuwa mabepari.

    Ukaja ujamaa lakini pia nao haukufanikiwa kuwajenga wananchi kuwa wajamaa ili nigonjwa sugu kwani nchi inashindwa kuwa na mtazamo wake katika siasa na uchumi.

    Pia tukisema state ijitoe kwenye uchumi mara nyingi watu huwa tunatasifiri tofauti then market econony rather than state economy nikwamba state isiingie direct kwenye soko mfano ushindani wa mitaji,biashara na uzarishaji bali ibaki kufanya vitu kama regulative,promotion and protective roles.

    Nirudi hapa Tanzania hatuna sera ambayo tunaisimamia kama taifa kwani leo hadi katiba inasema ujamaa na demokrasia hapo bado kunamkanyiko maana mtu mwingine unaposema ujamaa the western unasema that is dictatorship.

    Pili Tanzania ukiubiri dhidi ya ujamaa wengi watesema unampinga baba wa taifa then wewe kibaraka,ukiubiri ujamaa kama mchangiaji alivyosema utasikia unaturudisha nyuma dah teh teh!

    Mfumo upi unaweza kutufikisha mbele sisi Watanganyika na nchi nyingine hapa Afrika ni ubepari au ujamaa nalo bado changamoto mfano watanzania wangapi wanamitaji mikubwa yakuweza kuwekeza kwenye raslimali zilizopo? Viongozi wangapi wanaweza toa msimamo wa nchi yetu. Tukiwa na viongozi wenye kudhubutu toka moyoni mwao State-controlled Economy ni alternative kwetu.
     
  13. T

    Topical JF-Expert Member

    #13
    Sep 25, 2011
    Joined: Dec 3, 2010
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    Pamoja na mapungufu hayo ubepari bado ni vigumu kupata vyama vya siasa Tanzania vikiupinga au kuonyesha mbadala ki-sera zaidi ya kukaa kimya..pengine ni vigumu vilevile kuelezea mafanikio ya ujamaa Tanzania (kuutetea) na vigumu kuutetea ubepari maana adhari zake ni ziko wazi kwa wananchi...

    Pengine wanawaogopa mabwana zao wanao wapa fedha ufadhili..so utaona hapa kisera CCM na Chadema wako at par...hakuna atakayesema yeye si bepari wala kuupinga ubepari...

    Lakini wanajua kisiasa ubepari unaweza kukosa wapiga kura..ndio maana wako hakuna anayeongelea hilo bahati mbaya wasomi wetu hawa uliza maswali haya magumu zaidi ya ufisadi ..
     
  14. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #14
    Sep 25, 2011
    Joined: Mar 10, 2006
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    Labda niulize hivi: Je Ubepari kama mfumo wa uchumi unaweza kukua na kuwa na mafanikio ya kweli kwa watu wengi mahali ambapo pana usawa, haki, umoja na utu? Siyo kweli kwamba ubepari ulizaliwa kutoka katika dhulma na uvunjaji wa haki (utumwa, Ukoloni, n.k) na sasa mambo ya kupigania "usawa duniani" yanakuwa kikwako kikubwa sana cha ubepari? Yawezekana kitu kinachoitwa "corporate social responsibility" ni mbinu ya ubepari kujipa sura ya ujamaa?
     
  15. SOBY

    SOBY JF-Expert Member

    #15
    Sep 25, 2011
    Joined: Sep 19, 2011
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    Kinda new here, but I've seen your threads and this is one of the most provocative one. It's a brain stimulus and makes me wanna go back to my archives before contributing.

    It's the Socialist Nordic economies that are thriving right now, and we were so isolated by the west when we were pursuing Ujamaa. That, coupled with us being the leader of the FRONTLINE STATES, DENIED US OF OUR FAIR SHARE IN THE GLOBAL ECONOMY, but we had to do what we believed in until the Zanzibar Declaration (That I've never seen) came through.

    Capitalism is evil, socialism is godly.
     
  16. T

    Topical JF-Expert Member

    #16
    Sep 25, 2011
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    Ubepari kama mfumo hauwezi kukua na kuwa na mafanikio ya kweli...kwani kama ni kukua umeshakuwa huko US lakiniUS maskini wanaongezeka kila siku..ubepari kama mfumo hauna falsafa zaidi ya kupata faida zaidi..profit ...

    Corporate social responsibility ni cover ya kupunguza hasira ya aliyenyonywa mfano barrick kujenga choo cha shule baada ya kuingia mkataba wa kuvuna madini mkataba kinyonyaji ambao hata Mkapa asingetaka angelazimishwa na vyombo vinavyoendesha ubebari duniani WB, IMF etc..

    Ubepari hauna habari na usawa...ubepari ni mfumo unaotaka wabepari (wafanyabiashara) wafanye kazi za serikali na kulipwa na serikali zaidi ili wapate faida..usawa hauko hapo..mfano kuna haja gani ya serikali kuagiziwa magari yake na mfanya biashara (bepari) badala ya serikali kuagiza kutoka kwa manufacturer moja kwa moja?


    Mfumo wa kibepari umewekwa kulisha wabepari kwa kutumia fedha za wananchi wote..
     
  17. String Theorist

    String Theorist JF-Expert Member

    #17
    Sep 25, 2011
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    There are currently 97 users browsing this thread. (3 members and 94 guests)
    • String Theorist
    • Chakunyuma
    • kisu
    • NGOJA NAMI NI LOG OUT ILI NISOME ARTICLES MBALIMBALI THEN NITARUDI. Ila mkumbuke kuna mwanasiasa mmoja tuu...TUNDU LISSU... Alishasema yeye ni mlengo wa kushoto.
     
  18. M

    Mkandara Verified User

    #18
    Sep 26, 2011
    Joined: Mar 3, 2006
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    Duniani tunatanguliwa na mambo matatu makubwa sana..IGNORAMCE, GREED na SELFISHNESS haya unaweza kuayweka sehemu yoyote ya itikadi na elimu za falsafa bado yakatoka washindi..
    Kushindwa kwa Ujamaa kulitokana na haya ingawa misingi ya Ujamaa ilikuwa kupiga vita maswala haya haya. Kwa mfano unapokataa kuagiza mali za wengine ukataka kuuza zako inaweza kabisa kutokana na ignorance, greed na selfishness..

    Kuna Myahudi mmoja alinipa hadithi fupi ya mafanikio yao na akasema ya kwamba chukulia umekwenda shamba umekuta mananasi 12 yaliyoiva, kwa mjamaa atasema mananasi yote ni yake na hatataka mtu asiyehusika achukue hata moja! mwisho wa siku atabakia nayo ashindwe hata kuokoa moja kwa sababu atatumia muda na kazi kubwa kuyalinda bila kupoteza hata moja huku akifikiria jinsi ya kuyabeba yote (Huonekana - ignorant, greed and selfish). (kina Nyerere)

    Bepari atajaribu kuakota kadri ya uwezo wake kabla mtu mwingne hajatokea lakini uwezo wake ni kuchukua mananasi manne tu hivyo atachukua hayo na kuondoka akafiche au kuyapelekea nyumbani kwake akirudi hukuta mengine manane yameisha chukuliwa (huonekana pia- ignorance, greed and selfish)

    Myahudi on the other hand, wakikuta mananasi kumi atabeba manne kisha atawaita jirani kumsaidia kubeba yaliyobakia halafu wakifuka kwake atawapa kila mmoja wao nanasi moja, akabakiwa na mananasi 10...(again huonekana ignorant, greed na selfish) - Mshindi nani?
     
  19. Arafat

    Arafat JF-Expert Member

    #19
    Sep 26, 2011
    Joined: Nov 17, 2009
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    Hii adithi bwana! Huyo jirani wa Myahudi aliyefanyiwa hivyo na Myahudi ni nani? Na amini si Mpalestina.
     
  20. SOBY

    SOBY JF-Expert Member

    #20
    Sep 26, 2011
    Joined: Sep 19, 2011
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    Uyahudi ni mfumo wa kiuchumi?
     
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