Fani yenyewe ndio inahitaji kuongea ndugu! Dunia nzima wako hivyo, ni mdomo wako ndio utakaobadilisha "usiku kuwa mchana" (just kidding)!
asante kwa kukubal ukweli kuwa wanasheria wa bongo ni incompetent!
Fani yenyewe ndio inahitaji kuongea ndugu! Dunia nzima wako hivyo, ni mdomo wako ndio utakaobadilisha "usiku kuwa mchana" (just kidding)!
asante kwa kukubal ukweli kuwa wanasheria wa bongo ni incompetent!
Sijasema kuwa wanasheria WOTE bongo (labda hapa unamaanisha Tanzania) kuwa ni incompetent ndugu yangu Ama, umeniwekea maneno "mdomoni!" Nimezungumzia kuwa dunia nzima wanasheria ni waongeaji na kuongea haimaanishi kuwa incopetent hata kidogo! Labda nikuulize swali: Mwanasheria competent ni yupi? Anzia Legal Officers, State Attorneys, Advocates, Solicitors, Magistrates and Judges, ukichambua kwa mifano halisi kulingana na utafiti wako kama upo!
Quote Originally Posted by Ama View Post
asante kwa kukubal ukweli kuwa wanasheria wa bongo ni incompetent!
Mheshimiwa, niliandika wanasheria wa bongo maneno meengi. Ukauliza wa wapi hawana maneno mengi. Nikakujibu kuwa wanasheria wa Tanzania maneno meeengi....... na kwamba wanaruka pale ukiwaquestion (kuhusu profession yao au kuwacritisize). Ulivyorespond unajua. Niconclude kutokana na response yako. Umeruka tena...lol!
Umetoa wapi hicho kitu?
Nionyeshe hiyo sheria inayosema "Katika Mahakama za mwanzo, Mahakama ninawajibu wa kufuata maoni ya wazee wa baraza." Iko wapi?[/FONT][/SIZE]
Ndugu Ngoshwe na Tindikali, kama sijaelewa kifungu hicho hapo juu, esp sehemu niliyo-underline, nielewesheni, please! Kwa mfano assessors wawili wamekubaliana mshtakiwa aachiwe huru, huku Hakimu ameona kwamba ana hatia na afungwe, what next?
Tafsri ipo wazi tu katika ya Kifungu cha 7(1) na (2) cha MCA, 1984 ambacho kinataka Mahakama za Mwanzo kuhusisha wazee wa Baaraza wakati wa kusikiliza mashauri yoyote yale. Nimesharejea awali hapo juu Kifungu cha 7 cha MCA, 1984.
Soma tena kifungu cha 7(2):
" 7 (2) of the Act provides further that "All matters in the primary court including a finding in any issue, the question of adjourning the hearing, an application for bail, a question of guilt or innocence of any accused person, the determination of sentence, the assessment of any monetary award and all questions and issues whatsoever shall, in the event of difference between a magistrate and the assessors or any of them, be decided by the votes of the majority of the magistrates and assessors present and in the event of an equality of votes the magistrate shall have the casting vote in addition to his deliberative vote.
Dhana ya kuwa na wazee wa baraza katka mahakama za mwanzo ni kuishauri mahakama. Inapofikia wazee wote wamekubalina, mahakama haiwana budi kufuata ushauri wa wazee wa baraza hata kama haikubaliani nao. Hapo hakimu anakuwa hana kura ya turufu (casting vote) isipokuwa kama wazee wametofautiana maoni.
Katika kesi ya Ali Nyambwe v Mwanaidi Rashidi, (1987) Tanzania Law Reports 131, iliamriwa kuwa hakimu wa Mahakama ya Mwanzo hawezi kupingana na maoni ya wazee wa Baraza hata kama yapo kinyume na ukweli. ( "....a magistrate may not ignore assessors however perverse their opinion may appear to the magistrate")
Tafsri ipo wazi tu katika ya Kifungu cha 7(1) na (2) cha MCA, 1984 ambacho kinataka Mahakama za Mwanzo kuhusisha wazee wa Baaraza wakati wa kusikiliza mashauri yoyote yale.
Wachaga wanasema "Yesu na Maria..."!!!Katika kesi ya Ali Nyambwe v Mwanaidi Rashidi, (1987) Tanzania Law Reports 131, iliamriwa kuwa hakimu wa Mahakama ya Mwanzo hawezi kupingana na maoni ya wazee wa Baraza hata kama yapo kinyume na ukweli. ( "....a magistrate may not ignore assessors however perverse their opinion may appear to the magistrate")
Mzee Tindikali naona ni mtaalamu zaidi wa lugha ya Kiingereza,
Hukumu imesema "magistrate may not ignore assessors…" wewe unatutafsiria kwamba hayo maneno maana yake "hakimu hawezi kupingana na maoni ya wazee wa Baraza…" Huo sio uongo huo? Maana ya maneno hayo, kama hujui, ni hakimu hawezi kudharau wazee wa baraza, hayamaanishi hawezi kupingana na maoni ya wazee wa baraza. Mtume! Ingekuwa hakimu hawezi kupingana na wazee wa baraza kusingekuwa na kupiga kura kati ya hakimu na wazee wa baraza!
Kumbe tungekuwa hatudai vyanzo mngekuwa mnatudanganya tu hapa, duuu!
Ubarikiwe ndugu Ngoshwe kwa maelezo yako yenye ushawishi mkubwa! Ngoja tumsubiri Tindikali atupatie AUTHORITY (statutory, case law, textbook, etc) inayosema kwamba maamuzi ya "majority" ya wazee wa Baraza NOT BINDING!
Ubarikiwe ndugu Ngoshwe kwa maelezo yako yenye ushawishi mkubwa! Ngoja tumsubiri Tindikali atupatie AUTHORITY (statutory, case law, textbook, etc) inayosema ...
Achana na habari ya kuhusisha. Ni wapi kwenye sheria iliposemwa "…...Katika Mahakama za mwanzo, Mahakama ninawajibu wa kufuata maoni ya wazee wa baraza"???
Wachaga wanasema "Yesu na Maria..."!!!
Hukumu imesema "magistrate may not ignore assessors…" wewe unatutafsiria kwamba hayo maneno maana yake "hakimu hawezi kupingana na maoni ya wazee wa Baraza…" Huo sio uongo huo? Maana ya maneno hayo, kama hujui, ni hakimu hawezi kudharau wazee wa baraza, hayamaanishi hawezi kupingana na maoni ya wazee wa baraza. Mtume! Ingekuwa hakimu hawezi kupingana na wazee wa baraza kusingekuwa na kupiga kura kati ya hakimu na wazee wa baraza!
Kumbe tungekuwa hatudai vyanzo mngekuwa mnatudanganya tu hapa, duuu!
Mathalan hicho kitu hapo, ukiambiwa hebu onyesha maandishi ya huyo mtu, sentensi moja, au neno moja tu, tuone utaalam wake wa hiyo lugha, utaweza kuonyesha? Tilia maanani kila unachoongea, usijitamkie tu.
You may as well wish to revist the Articles on "JURIES AND LAY ASSESSORS IN THE COMMONWEALTH:
A CONTEMPORARY SURVEY" (2000) by NEIL VIDMAR at http://www.springerlink.com/content/w8w12651544630j2/fulltext.pdfAt page 395 the Author explains the role of assesors in judicials system of Tanzania as follows:
"In Tanzania all trials before the High Court (which includes the industrial court and the Economic Crimes Court) are held with the aid of assessors. Assessors are persons between the ages of twenty-one and sixty.
Two or more sit with a magistrate or judge and assist with their special knowledge of the subject matter before the court. The opinions of assessors are not binding on the court. In District and Magistrates Courts, assessors may be used where a rule of customary or Islamic law is relevant and when the court is directed to do so by an appropriate judicial authority. Opinions of assessors are not binding on these courts.
In the Primary Court, the magistrate sits with not fewer than two assessors; the decision is by majority and it is binding on the magistrate. In the event of a tie the magistrate casts a vote in addition to his or her deliberative vote to break the deadlock."
Na si mimi niliedai kwamba maoni ya wazee ni "not binding" au vinginevyo. Aliyetoa madai ndio anabeba mzigo wa kuthibitisha. Mimi nimeomba ithibitishwe, ionyeshwe sheria ya bunge au kesi inayosema hivyo.
Buchanan na, au, Ngoshwe, unachemsha, sheria zako cha mtoto,siku njema.
Soma sehemu ya Hukumu ya Kesi ya JULIUS PETRO v COSMAS RAPHAEL [1983] TLR 346 (CA) ambapo Jaji Mwalusanya alitumia Kamusi (Kitabu) katika kutafuta maana ya neno! Unataka kuniambia Kamusi hii (kitabu) nayo ilipitishwa na Bunge au ni maamuzi ya nyuma ya Mahakama?"Textbook" haina nguvu ya kuwa "authority" katika mahakama. Wanasheria wa wapi nyinyi? Mamlaka au vyanzo vyenye nguvu ya kisheria katika mahakama za Tanzania na nchi nyingi zilizorithi Common Law ni baadhi ya maamuzi ya nyuma ya baadhi ya mahakama, pamoja na sheria ya bunge na kanuni zake. Si vitabu!
Soma sehemu ya Hukumu ya Kesi ya JULIUS PETRO v COSMAS RAPHAEL [1983] TLR 346 (CA) ambapo Jaji Mwalusanya alitumia Kamusi (Kitabu) katika kutafuta maana ya neno! Unataka kuniambia Kamusi hii (kitabu) nayo ilipitishwa na Bunge au ni maamuzi ya nyuma ya Mahakama?
"Under s. 29(2) of MCA Cap. 537 a party can only be represented by 'any relative or any member of his or her household'. As to what is 'relative' it is not defined but I would settle for the definition given by the Concise D Oxford Dictionary 5th Ed. (1975) that a relative is a kinsman or kinswoman to whom one is related by blood or marriage."
"Textbook" haina nguvu ya kuwa "authority" katika mahakama. Wanasheria wa wapi nyinyi? Mamlaka au vyanzo vyenye nguvu ya kisheria katika mahakama za Tanzania na nchi nyingi zilizorithi Common Law ni baadhi ya maamuzi ya nyuma ya baadhi ya mahakama, pamoja na sheria ya bunge na kanuni zake. Si vitabu!
Na si mimi niliedai kwamba maoni ya wazee ni "not binding" au vinginevyo. Aliyetoa madai ndio anabeba mzigo wa kuthibitisha. Mimi nimeomba ithibitishwe, ionyeshwe sheria ya bunge au kesi inayosema hivyo.
Buchanan na, au, Ngoshwe, unachemsha, sheria zako cha mtoto,siku njema.
Na si mimi niliedai kwamba maoni ya wazee ni "not binding" au vinginevyo. Aliyetoa madai ndio anabeba mzigo wa kuthibitisha. Mimi nimeomba ithibitishwe, ionyeshwe sheria ya bunge au kesi inayosema hivyo.
"
Na si mimi niliedai kwamba maoni ya wazee ni "not binding" au vinginevyo. Aliyetoa madai ndio anabeba mzigo wa kuthibitisha. Mimi nimeomba ithibitishwe, ionyeshwe sheria ya bunge au kesi inayosema hivyo.
Buchanan na, au, Ngoshwe, unachemsha, sheria zako cha mtoto,siku njema.
Tuchambue mahakimu, lakini tungeanza na wewe kwanza, Mwanasheria wetu hapa
Haya, tuendelee na uchambuzi na kudadavua hukumu. Naomba mamlaka, au chanzo chako kuwa Wazee wa Baraza ni lazima wafuatwe kwenye Mahakama ya Mwanzo na si lazima Mahakama Kuu.
Ukiombwa "mamlaka" ya kitu ulichodai maana yake utoe sheria au uamuzi wa kesi inayosindikiza kile ulichokisema. Hivyo nilimuomba Buchanan anambie ametoa wapi madai yake kwamba Wazee wa Baraza mahakama za mwanzo lazima wafuatwe walichoamua na Mahakama Kuu si lazima.
Si umesema wote tunajifunza siku zote, basi usiseme umesikitika, si tunajifunza? Ni kitu chanya.
Umetupa somo hapa kwamba katika Mahakama ya Mwanzo kile walichoamua wazee wa Baraza lazima kifatwe, na si Mahakama Kuu. Naomba mamlaka au chanzo cha kisheria ulikotoa madai hayo.
Eee bana, manake tumepewa somo hapa, kwamba, katika Mahakama ya Mwanzo kile kinachoamuliwa na Wazee wa Baraza ni lazima kifatwe, lakini Mahakama Kuu si lazima. Sasa bwana/bibi Buchanan anaombwa mamlaka ya madai hayo, kaitoa wapi habari hiyo? Hajajibu, badala yake anaanza oooh, maneno yangu mimi mekundu, ya hakimu ya bluu, meusi si yangu....wakati yote, ya rangi zote, yana michemko.
Ngoshwe ukiweza tusaidie bana... ametoa wapi habari hiyo huyu Buchanan... hahahaa....
Tusizunguke mibuyu, wapi waliposema uamuzi wa wazee wa baraza mahakama ya mwanzo lazima ufatwe?
Umetoa wapi hicho kitu?
Nionyeshe hiyo sheria inayosema "Katika Mahakama za mwanzo, Mahakama ninawajibu wa kufuata maoni ya wazee wa baraza." Iko wapi?