Dismiss Notice
You are browsing this site as a guest. It takes 2 minutes to CREATE AN ACCOUNT and less than 1 minute to LOGIN

Muungano watikiswa; Lissu asema haukuridhiwa na Wazanzibari wote; Mbunge wa Ubungo hajui

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by nngu007, Jul 9, 2011.

  1. nngu007

    nngu007 JF-Expert Member

    #1
    Jul 9, 2011
    Joined: Aug 2, 2010
    Messages: 15,874
    Likes Received: 28
    Trophy Points: 145
    *Mbunge wa Ubungo hajui kwanini ulianzishwa
    *Lissu asema haukuridhiwa na Wazanzibari wote
    *Adai Mwalimu Nyerere alimzidi ujanja Karume
    *Mnyaa ahoji Karume kutochanganya udongo


    Na Maregesi Paul, Dodoma

    [​IMG]


    HOJA ya Muungano wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar uliozaa Jamhuri ya Muungano wa Tanzania, juzi iliibuka bungeni baada ya baadhi ya wabunge kuhoji uhalali na muundo wake.

    Hali hiyo ilijitokeza juzi jioni wakati wabunge walipokuwa wakichangia Makadirio ya Bajeti ya Mapato na Matumizi ya Ofisi ya Makamu wa Rais kwa mwaka wa fedha wa 2011/2012 iliyowasilishwa na Waziri wa Nchi, Ofisi ya Makamu wa Rais, Samia Suluhu Hassan.

    Aliyekuwa wa kwanza kuchokonoa Muungano ni Mbunge wa Ubungo, John Mnyika (CHADEMA), ambaye alisema kuna haja kwa Watanzania waliokuwapo wakati wa kuanzishwa Muuungano kuuleza umma ni kwa nini Tanganyika na Zanzibar ziliungana.

    "Kuna siri kubwa sana kuhusu Muungano wetu, kuna haja sasa walioushuhudia kuueleza umma wa Watanzania ni kwa nini ulianzishwa kwa sababu Shirika la Ujasusi la Marekani (CIA) tayari limeshaanza kuweka wazi baadhi ya mambo huku likieleza jinsi Balozi wa Marekani alivyoshiriki.

    "Kama taarifa hizo zitatolewa, zitawasaidia Watanzania kujua ni muundo gani wa Muungano wanaotakiwa kuwa nao tofauti na ilivyo sasa ambapo watu hawajui ni muundo upi wa muungano unaowafaa," alisema Mnyika.

    Mwingine aliyezungumzia hoja hiyo ni Mbunge wa Singida Mashariki, Tundu Lissu (CHADEMA) ambaye alisema kuna kila sababu muundo wa muungano huo kuangaliwa upya kwa kuwa kuna kasoro nyingi zinazoonekana kuwakwaza baadhi ya Watanzania.
    "Hili suala la Muungano linahusu uhai wetu kama nchi na kama taifa na suala la mazingira ambalo nalo waziri alipowasilisha bajeti yake aliligusia, linahusu uhai wetu kama binadamu.

    "Kwa leo sitagusia mazingira kwa sababu naandaa mchango wangu kwa maandishi na nimeanza kuuandaa tangu juzi, ila nitazungumzia muungano na ninataka kujua ni kitu gani kilichotufanya tuungane ingawa hakijaelezwa kwa miaka 47 sasa.
    "Muungano ulizaliwa katika mazingira ya siri, ulianzishwa kwa kuwaficha baadhi ya viongozi waliokuwapo enzi hizo, kwa nini hali ilikuwa hivyo.

    "Asili ya muungano ni vita baridi iliyokuwapo wakati huo na lengo la huu muungano lilikuwa ni kuwadhibiti watu waliokuwa maarufu kisiasa wakiwamo akina marehemu Mohamed Babu na Kassim Hanga, hii ndiyo hali halisi ya huu muungano tulionao sasa.

    "Nawaambia, April 1964 ile hati ya muungano iliyosainiwa kati ya Hayati Nyerere na Karume ilisainiwa kimya kimya bila Aboud Jumbe kulishirikisha Baraza la Mapinduzi Zanzibar, Zanzibar hawakuridhia muungano kwa mujibu wa nyaraka zilizopo na ndiyo maana kila mara wanalalamika.

    "Juni 10 mwaka 1965 masuala ya fedha yaliingizwa katika muungano kwa ujanja ujanja kwa kutumia hati ya dharura na mengine yakaja kuingizwa bila Wazanzibari kushirikishwa, mambo hayo ndiyo sasa yanawafanya watu waanze kuhoji muundo wa huu muuungano," alisema Lissu.

    Katika mazungumzo yake, mwanasiasa huyo alisema pamoja na kwamba baadhi ya Watanzania wanataka muungano uendelee kuwapo, umefika wakati sasa kila mmoja kujiuliza maswali mawili ya msingi kuhusu muungano huo.

    Aliyataja maswali hayo kuwa ni je, Tanzania Bara na Visiwani wanautaka muungano na je ni muungano upi unaotakiwa na wananchi wa pande hizo mbili.

    Kwa mujibu wa Lissu, baada ya maswali hayo kujibiwa Watanzania wanatakiwa kukaa na kujadili upya muundo wa muungano huo ili kuondoa malalamiko yaliyopo.

    "Hayo ndiyo maswali ya msingi kujiuliza, muungano wetu unahitaji ridhaa ya pande zote mbili, kuna watu wakikuona unahoji muungano wanakuona kama unataka kumtukana Nyerere, jamani haya siyo mambo ya Mungu.

    "Haya ni mambo ya Kaisari, lazima tuyahoji, lazima tujue kilichopo nyuma ya pazia, lazima tujue huu muungano ulianzishwa kwa sababu zipi kwani wakati unaanzishwa Karume hakuwashirikisha wanasheria, alizidiwa ujanja na Nyerere, jamani hata ndoa huvunjika, tumechoshwa na propaganda," alisema.

    Naye Mbunge wa Mkanyageni, Mohamed Habib Mnyaa (CUF), aliungana na wabunge hao wawili na kusema kuwa hajui ni kwa nini wakati wa kuchanganya udongo wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar, Hayati Karume hakushirikishwa.

    "Kuna swali moja huwa ananiuliza mtoto wangu mdogo, kwamba Baba kila siku ya muungano tunaonyeshwa picha ya Nyerere akichanganya udongo peke yake, mbona Karume huwa hatumuoni akichanganya udongo?.

    "Mwanangu huyo huwa ananiuliza, hivi huu ni muungano gani huu, hili swali huwa nashindwa kumjibu na kama mnabisha, angalieni hiyo siku ya muungano mtamuona Nyerere akichanganya udongo peke yake bila Karume.

    "Kutokana na hali hii, lazima muundo wa muungano uangaliwe upya kwa sababu kitendo cha Zanzibar kutokuwa na mamlaka ya kukopa fedha nje bila ridhaa ya SMT( Serikali ya Jamhuri ya Muungano wa Tanzania ) siyo sahihi kabisa na pia hili neno kero za muungano siyo sahihi bali usahihi ni matatizo ya muungano," alisema Mnyaa.

    Katika hatua nyingine, alisema kuna haja kwa Serikali kukubaliana na mapendekezo yaliyowahi kutolewa na baadhi ya tume zilizoundwa kwa ajili yakuangalia muungano huo zikiwamo Tume ya Nyalali na Tume ya Kisanga ambazo kwa nyakati tofauti zilipendekeza uwepo wa Serikali tatu.

     
  2. nngu007

    nngu007 JF-Expert Member

    #2
    Jul 9, 2011
    Joined: Aug 2, 2010
    Messages: 15,874
    Likes Received: 28
    Trophy Points: 145
    Yes, Chadema we need courage to question this Union; No CCM MP's discussing this Topic Why? It is not a Taboo!!
     
  3. The Emils

    The Emils JF-Expert Member

    #3
    Jul 9, 2011
    Joined: Apr 16, 2011
    Messages: 570
    Likes Received: 1
    Trophy Points: 0
    daah kama ya sudan kusini yananukia
     
  4. FaizaFoxy

    FaizaFoxy JF-Expert Member

    #4
    Jul 9, 2011
    Joined: Apr 13, 2011
    Messages: 50,505
    Likes Received: 9,274
    Trophy Points: 280
    Sioni faida ya muungano, natamani zitoke hizo nyaraka za CIA na za MI5 or is it 6. Na za vatican.
     
  5. nngu007

    nngu007 JF-Expert Member

    #5
    Jul 9, 2011
    Joined: Aug 2, 2010
    Messages: 15,874
    Likes Received: 28
    Trophy Points: 145
    Haikuwa ni Udini ilikuwa zaidi Ucomminist... Mohamed Babu and Kassim Hanga... Lakini wengi sasa wa wapinzani wa Muungano wanaishi Uingereza...

    Kwahiyo hakuna tatizo kuvunjika...
     
  6. njiwa

    njiwa JF-Expert Member

    #6
    Jul 9, 2011
    Joined: Apr 16, 2009
    Messages: 10,088
    Likes Received: 1,110
    Trophy Points: 280
    kunatakiwa kuongezeke nchi nyingine afrika... nayo ni jamuhuri ya watu wa zazibar
     
  7. Edson

    Edson JF-Expert Member

    #7
    Jul 9, 2011
    Joined: Mar 7, 2009
    Messages: 9,053
    Likes Received: 480
    Trophy Points: 180
    faiza fox na wewe huoni faida ya muungano?.hhahaha..ngoja nikuwekee hapa hizo document za CIA.......
     
  8. O

    Omr JF-Expert Member

    #8
    Jul 9, 2011
    Joined: Nov 18, 2008
    Messages: 1,160
    Likes Received: 1
    Trophy Points: 0
    muungano ukifa tu Zanzibar inarudi kwa warabu.
     
  9. e

    eedoh05 JF-Expert Member

    #9
    Jul 9, 2011
    Joined: Apr 20, 2011
    Messages: 582
    Likes Received: 1
    Trophy Points: 0
    Jamhuri ya Watu wa Zanzibar ipo. ILA IMEGEUZWA MKOA NA koloni la Tanganyika, upo hapo?
     
  10. zumbemkuu

    zumbemkuu JF Bronze Member

    #10
    Jul 9, 2011
    Joined: Sep 11, 2010
    Messages: 8,790
    Likes Received: 255
    Trophy Points: 180

    bora, na sie wa Tanga tuna mpango wa kudai chetu, tunataka kuwa nchi huru.
     
  11. tanga kwetu

    tanga kwetu JF-Expert Member

    #11
    Jul 9, 2011
    Joined: May 12, 2010
    Messages: 1,564
    Likes Received: 261
    Trophy Points: 180
    sometimes huwa una point ila mara zote ukiwa na point lazima utaharibu na chuki zako za udini. Vatican ilishiriki vipi katika kuanzisha Muungano wa JMT??? Wakati naendelea kusoma mchango wako nilikuwa nakaribia kukugongea 'thanks' lakini nilipofika mwisho nakugongea 'crap'
     
  12. Mkuu wa chuo

    Mkuu wa chuo JF-Expert Member

    #12
    Jul 9, 2011
    Joined: Feb 3, 2011
    Messages: 7,163
    Likes Received: 151
    Trophy Points: 160
    mtapigika vibaya sana!
     
  13. FaizaFoxy

    FaizaFoxy JF-Expert Member

    #13
    Jul 9, 2011
    Joined: Apr 13, 2011
    Messages: 50,505
    Likes Received: 9,274
    Trophy Points: 280
    [FONT=Times,Times New Roman]"Without any question, the manner and the implications of the union between Tanganyika and Zanzibar is the most misunderstood aspect of Tanzania's political development. It may not matter very much when foreigners get confused, but unfortunately there are many times when Tanzanians themselves appear to misunderstand it."[/FONT] [FONT=Times,Times New Roman]Former Tanzanian President Julius Nyerere.[/FONT] [FONT=Times,Times New Roman]Dar es Salaam Government Printer, July 1970. p. 3.[/FONT]
     
  14. Eric Cartman

    Eric Cartman JF-Expert Member

    #14
    Jul 9, 2011
    Joined: Apr 11, 2011
    Messages: 2,053
    Likes Received: 679
    Trophy Points: 280
    Kuna vitu vingine kwa kweli ni upuuzi mtupu kuzungumziwa, hivi ina maana matatizo makubwa ya muungano ni jinsi mchanga ulivyochanganywa au sijui ni nani alishiriki au shirikishwa katika maamuzi ya muungano. Kwani kuna miuongano mingapi duniani watu walishirikishwa infact muungano wa USA watu waliokuwa wakiupinga walitandikwa kuungana.

    Embu tuache siasa mgando kila kitu kurudi kwenye reference za zamani na kuzungumzia viongozi ambao muda wao umeshapita na wengi wao leo mungu keshawachukua. Hii si kusema muungano usingumziwe, siasa zina evolve like anything else kama muungano una matatizo ni kuzungumzia matatizo ambayo yapo on the open currently. Lakini si suala la kuanza kuleta mambo ya kijinga kijinga kama sijui CIA na ujinga mwingine kutaka kujifanya 'mapanga spy' fulani, wakati the discussion should base on current affairs politically, economically, security and social aspect of the union today.

    Hayo ndio mambo ya kuzungumzia leo na Tanzania iamue tunataka muungano upi (kwa vyevyote lazima kuwe na mabadiliko) au ufe kabisa. Na wanasiasa makini waje na arguments based on social arguments of our time, wawe candid on their stance na si hizi hadithi uchwara za CIA hili kupima upepo halafu ndio wachague upande; thats just weak and pathetic.
     
  15. nngu007

    nngu007 JF-Expert Member

    #15
    Jul 9, 2011
    Joined: Aug 2, 2010
    Messages: 15,874
    Likes Received: 28
    Trophy Points: 145
    Thank you ... No any religion aspects here, it was power and ideology... Thank you...
     
  16. J

    Jasusi JF-Expert Member

    #16
    Jul 9, 2011
    Joined: May 5, 2006
    Messages: 11,450
    Likes Received: 100
    Trophy Points: 145
    I support Chadema but I think on this muungano issue wamechemsha.
     
  17. Lunyungu

    Lunyungu JF-Expert Member

    #17
    Jul 9, 2011
    Joined: Aug 7, 2006
    Messages: 8,827
    Likes Received: 53
    Trophy Points: 135
    Kuna mahali Vatican imetajwa kuuchochea Muunganno au docs za Vatican zipi unazo zitaka ?
     
  18. J

    Jasusi JF-Expert Member

    #18
    Jul 9, 2011
    Joined: May 5, 2006
    Messages: 11,450
    Likes Received: 100
    Trophy Points: 145
    Responding to fierce criticism by MPs relating to perceived secrecy and controversies over the April 26, 1964 formation of the Tanganyika-Zanzibar Union, Sitta faulted politicians bent on "maliciously distorting the truth".[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]"[/FONT]It's really disheartening hearing some people insulting the founders of our Union - Mwalimu Julius Nyerere and Sheikh Abeid Amani Karume. It is as painful as it is saddening hearing people discrediting the great things they (Nyerere and Karume) have done and the peddling distorted information on the contents of the agreement reached by these two leaders," he said.[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
    Sitta said none of the much-talked-about 11 Articles was secretly added to the original list of Union matters, as suggested by Chadema legislators, noting that "additional Articles were incorporated after the (1977) collapse of the East African Community….and proper procedures were followed to incorporate them".[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]"[/FONT]Additionally, higher education was not even among the Union matters… but it was Zanzibar government that requested it to be included on the list," he added.[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
    Sitta also dismissed as baseless claims that the Union government has been restricting the Zanzibar government from benefiting from foreign aid or accessing other opportunities offered internationally, saying international laws and instruments make it mandatory for Zanzibar to access "these benefits" through the Union government, as it is Tanzania that is internationally recognised as a sovereign state.[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
    Reacting to suggestions that Mwalimu Nyerere dictated terms and "bulldozed" then Zanzibar President Karume during the run-up to the formation of the Union, the minister said history shows that there isn't even a single grain of truth in what was being said.[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]"[/FONT]No truth in that whatsoever. Karume was all for the rebirth of Zanzibar and the Mainland as a single nation with Mwalimu Nyerere as the first President of the Union. But Mwalimu Nyerere rejected the proposal outright, instead asking Karume to remain Zanzibar President even in the mutually agreed Union structure," he explained.[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
    He added that there were many distortions about the Union and its history, urging politicians to be especially careful when handling issues relating to the Union "otherwise we could plunge the nation into chaos."[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
    The National Assembly has since endorsed the VPO's Budget estimates.[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]SOURCE: THE GUARDIAN [/FONT]
     
  19. M

    Mkandara Verified User

    #19
    Jul 9, 2011
    Joined: Mar 3, 2006
    Messages: 15,419
    Likes Received: 76
    Trophy Points: 145
    Ni ujinga mkubwa kuendelea kupigishana kelele kuhusu Muungano kwa madai ambayo hayana msingi kabisa.. Nasema hayana msingi kwa sababu hakuna Taifa lolote lilounganisha nchi zake kwa kupata ridhaa ya wananchi - Hakuna! na sababu kubwa ni kwamba nchi hizo zimeungana wakati wa Uhuru wake ili kupata Taifa moja bila kujali mipaka ya mkoloni. Marekani wamefanya Hivyo na hata Waingereza ambao kwa miaka walitawaliwa na Wataliani walifanya hivyo, Nigeria na kadhalika kote huko hakukuwa na majadiliano na wananchi jinsi ya kuunda Taifa moja.

    Halafu inazidisha kuona uchizi wa vijana wabunge wa siku hizi ambao wanauliza maswali ya kijinga sana kama vile kwa nini Karume hakuchanganya udongo!.. Kwani angechanganya udongo kungekuwa na maana gani zaidi ikiwa huyo huyo Karume mnadai sii Mzanzibar kwa asili?.. Na hapo hapo hao hao wanaodai Uzanzibar wenyewe kiasili sio Wazanzibar ni Wakomoro waliohamia Zanzibar!. Mnaacha kuzungumzia maswala ya kuboresha muundo wa Jamhuri yetu mnataka kurudi tena kule tulikotoka kwa Sultan ili mradi tu kupingana na Mapinduzi yaliyopelekea Muungano wetu.


    Yaani huu Muungano unapata mitihani mingi toka kwa watu wa kuja na hakika hawa watu walishindikana kule walikotoka sasa ile asili yao ya UBISHI na ushenzi wanaileta kwetu wakiuliza kuzaliwa kwa Taifa hili wasiulize mama zao kwa nini walizaliwa Zanzibar hali wao ni Wakomoro!! sasa kama haya wanayaona ni matusi ndivyo tunavyoona matusi yao kuhusiana na Muungano.

    Mtanisamehe, lakini haya maswala ya muungano sasa yanazidi kutuumiza vichwa na hawa wanafiki wakubwa ambao wakipewa madaraka tu wanaufyata mdomo wakati kuna maswala muhimu zaidi kuzungumzia kuhusu muungano ktk kulijenga Taifa letu.
    Samahani sana wakuu zangu lakini inauma sana kuona wapo wabunge waliochaguliwa na wananchi wenye lengo la kuuvunja Muungano, kutugawa na kusambaratisha udugu wetu badala ya kutoa mawazo yanayotujenga na kutuwekja karibu zaidi..Huu ni umaskini wa akili na haramu hata kudai wewe ni Muislaam!
     
  20. K

    Kahinda JF-Expert Member

    #20
    Jul 9, 2011
    Joined: Feb 5, 2009
    Messages: 816
    Likes Received: 88
    Trophy Points: 45
    Hakika FF naungana na wewe maana tukivunja huu muungano watu kama wewe tutawarudisha mliko toka. Labda Makka/Medina inaweza kuwasaidia zaidi kuliko Vatican.
     
Loading...