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Mungu kwenye nyimbo ya Taifa WHY?

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Game Theory, Oct 21, 2008.

  1. G

    Game Theory JF-Expert Member

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    Leo nitazungumzia jambo ambalo wengi wenu mmekuwa WANAFIKI na huwa mnajaribu kwa kila hali kulikwepa.

    Nchi na serikali hazina dini lakini kwa nini Mungu anaimbwa kwenye nyimbo ya Taifa?

    Najua kama watanzania wanayohaki ya kuwa na dini wanazotaka lakini hamuoni kama hii ni hatari kwa wale wasiamini Mungu?

    Chukulia wewe ni mzazi na huamini mambo ya dini halafu unampeleka mwanao shule kule ataimbishwa nyimbo ya taifa wee mpaka anamaliza primary sasa hamuoni kama huku ni kumlazimisha mtu aamini jambo ambalo hakuna aliyethibitisha kama lipo? yaani hii ni doctrination mbaya sana ? Hlafu mnashangaa kwa nini hatuendelei

    Nadhani its time tukabadili nyimbo ya taifa halafu hawa ma religious nutjobs wakikataaa tukaburuzane mahakamani

    Sometimes we have to stand up for something badala ya kufuata mkumbo

    Its really sad wanavyowadoctrinate watoto wadogo mashuleni kuwafanya waamini kitu ambacho no one has ever proved that it exist

    nawasilisha hoja and yes i dare be different kwenye hili unless kuna mtu anahoja ya kuniconvince otherwise
     
  2. Steve Dii

    Steve Dii JF-Expert Member

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    GT, hapo juu kwenye wekundu, ni maendeleo gani unayomaanisha, waweza fafanua zaidi tafadhali?!...

    SteveD.
     
  3. G

    Game Theory JF-Expert Member

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    Kwanza jibu hoja ya msingi kisha hicho kipande tutakicheki baadae
     
  4. Calnde

    Calnde JF-Expert Member

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    Nafikiri wakati wanatunga wimbo walibase kwenye idealist theory in origin of state.But game can you simply tell the meaning of God/god?
     
  5. Steve Dii

    Steve Dii JF-Expert Member

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    Wakati mataifa mengi yanatunga nyimbo zake za taifa ucha Mungu ulikuwa mwingi. Wimbi la ma- atheist tulionalo sasa hivi halikuwepo kwa wingi huo wakati huo. Mithili ya makubaliko ya ushoga kwenye baadhi za jamii na dini ilivyokuwa zamani ukilinganisha na ilivyo sasa.

    U-conservative uliogubika jamii mbalimbali hapo awali unayoyoma polepole kutokana na mazingira ya leo kiujumla. Utandawazi, technolojia, idadi ya watu n.k. Maadili, dini, siasa ni vibeba mzigo vikuu wa uyoyomaji huo.

    Sasa, pamoja na kuwa unakataa kuiongelea hoja niliyotaka kuiibua hapo awali, bado; maelezo na hoja vimetindia palepale. Yakwamba, nadhani ni asilimia chache sana ya mataifa ambayo hayakuhusisha Imani/Mungu kwa namna moja au nyingine katika nyimbo zake za taifa. Isitoshe, kama kuhusisha huko lilikuwa jambo makini au hapana; bado, mataifa mengi hayajasumbuliwa au kuathirika sana na uhusisaji huo mpaka hii leo.

    Kule Uingereza, pale watakapopata mfalme sijui nao watabidi wabadilishe wimbo wao ili umhusishe? Marekani vivyo hivyo, ma-atheist wanakuja juu kuomba wimbo ubadilishwe na kutohusisha Mungu. Naamini nchi nyingi pia zillizohusisha dini katika nyimbo zake zinazidi kuchimbiwa mkwara na wimbi hili la ma-atheist linalozidi kujitokeza kila pande ya dunia.

    GT, sina uhakika, ila nafikiri na napenda kuamini kabisa kuwa, kuingizwa kwa dini/imani/Mungu katika nyimbo hizi hakujaleta negative impact yoyote ile. Kikubwa nikionacho katika mujumuisho huo ni kule kuwezeshwa kwa imani kwamba, kuna mema yawezekanayo ndani ya taifa pale mtu anapoimba kwa hiari na moyo mkunjufu nyimbo ya taifa lake. Nyimbo za taifa zimefanisiwa na kufanisika kifasaha na nia yake kuu nijuayo mimi through observation ni kule kuleta mshikamano. Angalia magwaride ya kumuenzi mtu/watu fulani hivi... kwenye michezo, vita na majonzi. Ndipo hapo haswa unapoweza kutambua the power of the National anthem.

    Ni mshikamano huo huo ulioletea mataifa yaliyoendelea na yanayoendelea mabadiliko katika jamii, siasa na dini kama tuonavyo hivi sasa. Si hivyo tu, bali umewezesha hata wasiona dini kuweza kuchallenge hiyo hiyo dini iliyokuwa imewagandamiza hapo mwanzo. Na ndipo hapo mtu waweza kukubali kuwa, kushirikishwa kwa Mungu katika nyimbo hizo si chochote bali ni kule kuleta mshikamano. Maana watunzi wanyimbo hizo wakati huo wanatungwa ndivyo walivyoamini na ndimo kwenye mazingara waliyokuwemo. U-bias katika nyimbo hizo dhidi ya ma-atheist wakati zinatungwa haukuwepo wala haukufikirika kwa wengi.

    Sasa ndipo hapo tutakapojiuliza, je tuwe tunabadili nyimbo za taifa kufata mawimbi ya makundi mbalimbali yanayojitokeza kwa sababu mbalimbali na nyakati tofauti tofauti katika uhai wa Taifa?

    SteveD.
     
  6. Pundit

    Pundit JF-Expert Member

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    Marx had it best, religion is the opium of the hoi polloi, so the statist and intelligentsia (Nyerere, Mwinyi et al) presented themselves as ultra religious while their level of education afforded them the scope to realize the god idea is just hogwash based in some ancient mythology, mainly designed to oppress and keep the oppressed in check.

    This is indeed a tall order for Tanzania, think about how the "Brights" movement in America, with it's champions The Mahers and Hitchens of this world, is not sufficient to discredit the supersistious tradition imprinted on the dollar bill "In God We Trust".

    Some learned advocates of the god idea, profess their knowledge of the instrumentality nature of the whole charade, in other words, they do acknowledge realizing that god does not exist but his fabrication is claimed to be the necessary evil prerequisite to preserve order and stipulate people to do good for fear of going to hell and incentive of going to heaven.I say this is the greatest insult to man's intelligence, that if you believe that man cannot be moral except by coercion and by being bamboozled with a predicament of sulphur and brimstone, and bribes of of heaven, then you are probably being an enabler in incapacitating man to do good for the sake of good, and to do good because it is the humane thing.

    Here two of my favorite lyricist come to mind to succintly sum this whole thing up.

    First Bob Marley in "Get Up, Stand Up"

    Preacherman, dont tell me,
    Heaven is under the earth.
    I know you dont know
    What life is really worth.
    Its not all that glitters is gold;
    alf the story has never been told:
    So now you see the light, eh!
    Stand up for your rights. come on!


    The The Notorious B.I.G in "Suicidal thoughts" (may be too much to some of y'all, but liberating from this god nonsense anyway)

    When I die, fvck it I wanna go to hell
    Cause I`m a piece of shit, it ain`t hard to fvckin` tell
    It don`t make sense, goin` to heaven wit the goodie-goodies
    Dressed in white, I like black Tims and black hoodies
    God will probably have me on some real strict shit
    No sleepin` all day, no gettin my dick licked
    Hangin` with the goodie-goodies loungin` in paradise
    Fvck that shit, I wanna tote guns and shoot dice


    God is a myth that has held back progress more than anything else!
     
  7. Steve Dii

    Steve Dii JF-Expert Member

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    Again, what progress? When and where do you have a referential point for such progress?!

    SteveD.
     
  8. macho_mdiliko

    macho_mdiliko JF-Expert Member

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    Game Theory! Kwanza naomba uelewe...Dini na Mungu ni vitu viwili tofauti. Unaweza kuwa na dini isiyoamini kuna Mungu... na unaweza ukaamini kuna Mungu lakini usiwe na dini!!!
    Nikija kwenye hoja yako... wimbo wa taifa haujajikita kwenye dini fulani... .unawawakilisha watu wote wanaoamini kuna Mungu (hata wale wanaoamini ng'ombe ni Mungu).... Na of course ndio idadi kubwa ya Watanzania... wengi wape!
     
  9. Pundit

    Pundit JF-Expert Member

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    Just take Galileo Galilei and Copernicus, and what they had to go through to tell the world that the sun does not revolve around the earth, but the earth revolves around the sun. I am not even going to go into the Inquisition, the Conquistador, the Slave Trade, Colonialization and Christianization of the so called "Barbarian" up to Pat Robertson and Pat Buchanan's speech of contempt towards "unchristian people" and you will understand how this whole god idea is used in an almost medieval way to stand in the way of progress and true humane morality.

    When Pierre Simon Laplace, the famous french cosmologist and mathematician, improvised on Newtons laws of motion in the solar system he published a five volume treatise.Upon reading it, Emperor Napoleon asked Laplace "Where is god in this scheme of things?" and Laplace replied, "I have no need for that hypothesys"

    The personal God is a fluffy feel good escapist's-therapy that I, like Laplace, have no need for.
     
  10. Nyani Ngabu

    Nyani Ngabu Platinum Member

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    McCain-Palin 08
     
  11. G

    Game Theory JF-Expert Member

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    Imagine mwanao kila siku asubuhi kabla hajaenda darasani anaimbishwa nyimbo ya Taifa na kwa walio America its much worse kwani kule kuna hiyo pledge of allegiance. What a load nonsense!

    Kwa sababu imagine Tanzania kuna makabalia au watu wangapi wasio na dini lakini kila kukicha wanaona serikali haiishi ku accomodate hawa ma religious nutjobs tulijikita kwenye idara mbali mbali za serikali

    Iddi ikifika utaona watawala wanajipanga kula iddi na waislam kwa kutumia infrastructure za walipa kodi ambao kuna kundi kubwa tuu ambalo hawamwamini huyo Mungu

    Ikifika Christmass ndio usisikie maana kuanzia TVT mpaka idara za serikali utashangaa kuona mapambo ya christmas bila kuangalia sensitivity za wasio wakristo


    Sasa mtoto unapomwambia MUNGU WABARIKI VIONGIZI WAKE....etc hii ni mbaya sana kwa sababu tunaambiwa tuamini DOGMA this is really dangerous kwetu kama taifa

    Personally haya mambo yaniboa sana.Nadhani its about time tukabadilisha nyimbo ya taifa na kutoa MUNGU kwa sababu sidhani kama huyo Mungu ananafasi kwenye kuendesha mambo ya kiserikali ambayo inakusanya kodi toka kwa watu wasio na dini
     
  12. Nyani Ngabu

    Nyani Ngabu Platinum Member

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    Unajua kuna siku moja nilicheka sana....kuna mtu kazini alikuwa akibisha sana kuwa hakuna Mungu hapa duniani. Sasa siku moja...ilikuwa Jumamosi na kulikuwa hakuna watu wengi kwenye jengo la ofisi. Jamaa akatoka kwenda kuchukua maji kwenye watercooler breakroom. Sasa mimi nikanyatia nyuma nyuma halafu nikajibanza kwenye kakona flani hivi ambako hakuweza kuniona wala kujua kuwa kuna mtu kajificha pale.

    Basi alipotoka break room kurudi ofisini, alipofika pale nilipokuwa nimejibanza na kupita kidogo mimi nikatoka na kumfuata nyuma na kubwaka kama mbwa....hehehehehe....jamaa alipiga mayowe ya kila aina ikiwemo "oh my God"....ahahahahahaha....nilicheka sana. Sasa kama haamini kama kuna Mungu kwa nini alisema "oh my God"...?
     
  13. G

    Game Theory JF-Expert Member

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    hiyo ni catchphrase tuu ambayo mtu yoyote aliyezoea anaweza kusema

    nadhani its time tukaanza kuondokana na haya mambo ya kuwalazimisha watoto waimbe nyimbo ya Taifa mashuleni

    surely kama wanataka wananchi wawe patriotic then watekeleze ilani za uchaguzi na si kutulazimisha kumuimba mungu ambaye hakuna aliyeprve kama ana exist or not
     
  14. Suki

    Suki JF-Expert Member

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    Sidhani kama kuimba 'Mungu' kuna uhusiano na imani au uelewa wa kitu.
    I chanted a-e-i-o-u after I knew how to read and write.I also sang every word of ''Hit em up'' before I was even able to fully introduce myself.Do I believe in violence?Hell no!Was a-e-i-o-u useful in my reading development?...of course not!
    Na kwa kutumia hii theory yako,shouldn't every student be excelling at academics given the amount of singing done in almost every subject at lower levels?
    One more thing.
    ''...God keep our land glorious and free...'' ring a bell?A developed nation for you!It's about time we start coming up with better excuses for our nation's retardation.
     
  15. Steve Dii

    Steve Dii JF-Expert Member

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    ... story of Nyani McCain...ha ha ha! lol

    ... Mimi nafikiri kupiga makelele kama hayo 'oh my God' ni mazoea tu ya mwitikio wa tukio fulani hivi.

    ... Imagine kama mtu huyo anayesema kuwa haamini angekuzwa katika mazingira fulani hivi bila kusikia hilo neno 'oh my God', na badala yake angekua akisikia 'toooka' ku replace hiyo 'oh my God'

    .... Sasa je, huoni pale ambapo ulipomtisha angeweza kabisa kupiga mayowe akisema 'toooka' 'toooka' ' toooka' badala ya hivyo alivyosema na kuendelea ku-maintain kuwa haamini kuna Mungu hivyo kuleta disconnection katika hiyo correlation kati ya kusema 'oh my God' na kuamini Mungu kama vile ulivyomaanisha?!

    SteveD.
     
  16. Nyani Ngabu

    Nyani Ngabu Platinum Member

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    It is more of a Freudian slip than a catchphrase....

    Nadhani bado ni vyema kuwafundisha watoto wimbo wa taifa. Na kama kuna ambao wanatatizwa na neno "Mungu" kuwemo kwenye wimbo huo basi mimi sina tatizo kama neno hilo likiondolewa au kubadilshwa.
     
  17. Nyani Ngabu

    Nyani Ngabu Platinum Member

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    Freudian slip........"a slip of the tongue that is motivated by and reveals some unconscious aspect of the mind"
     
  18. G

    Game Theory JF-Expert Member

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    You are right halafu you these religius nutjobs ambao wametufikisha hapa tulipo cant answer any of these simple problems



    1. The problem of evil – Bad stuff happens randomly to believers and unbelievers alike, and no, we don't need 10's of thousands of innocents to be wiped out by tsunamis or kule Mererani walikofufa wale wachimbaji in order for people to do good things.



    2. The multitude of religions, many of which are contradictory. The majority must be incorrect in their belief, and yet believers of different religions claim that their belief gives them the same benefits...




    3. God doesn't seem to do much. Following on from point 2, each god does exactly the same amount, even though most of the gods can't exist. Therefore the god that does exist does no more than the gods that don't.



    4. If god designed us (in his image kama ambavyo hawa jamaa wanata tuamini) and other organisms, he didn't do a very good job, which is inconsistent with common descriptions of him. We have vestigial tails, blindspots, all kinds of genetic disorders and seem to be in a compromise situation between walking upright and giving birth, etc



    5. God appears to be obsessed with worship. Engaging with him is the single most important criteria for judgement as to whether you are worthy of eternal reward. This demonstrates either a fragile ego or a lack of moral integrity, both of which are inconsistent with god as commonly described.



    sasa why should he be our business kwenye nyimbo ya Taifa?

    Yes I agree with you on Mwinyi and Nyerere points
     
  19. G

    Game Theory JF-Expert Member

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    Duh1 inaelekea hiii itakuwa na mjadala mkali sana hapo mbeleni. I am sure sijalikoroga

    Nitarudi kudefend my views hapo baadae
     
  20. Pundit

    Pundit JF-Expert Member

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    Nyani,

    With all due respect, this does not "prove" that there is a god anymore than a person shouting "Great Loch Ness Monster" proves that indeed there is a Loch Ness monster.
     
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