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Mugabe late and too little

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Dua, Nov 21, 2007.

  1. Dua

    Dua JF-Expert Member

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    Nov 21, 2007
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    Zimbabwe to take mining stakes

    [​IMG]
    Mr Mugabe says the population
    should benefit directly from mining


    Mugabe muda wote alipokuwa madarakani alifikiria wazungu ni rafiki zake hakudiriki kubadilisha udhulumaji uliokuwa unaendelea hadi pale walipomzuia kwenda kufanya shopping europe, ndio amepata akili na kutaka mali ya Zimbabweans iwasaidie Zimbabweans. Nafikiri amechelewa na ilikuwa ni aibu kuona jeshi lake badala ya kuwalinda raia lilikuwa linakwenda kuchoma makazi yao.
     
  2. K

    Kalamu JF-Expert Member

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    Dua,
    Better late than never.

    Those changes seem very drastic; but hey,it is high time the national treasures be shared by wananchi, if that is what is intended.

    Frankly, under prevailing contractual conditions in which Tanzania's minerals seem to be plundered for peanuts, it wouldn't be a bad idea learning a lesson or two from there; or at least even putting a moratorium on the development of new mines altogether for the time being.

    Akheri tuwasubiri mabillionea 100 wa Kikwete kwanza wapatikane kabla ya kuendelea na kugawa utajiri wa nchi bure.

    Talking of 'billioneas' - what a vision of our dear leader that one is! How does it relate with the "Maazimio ya Arusha na Zanzibar?" If I were him I would be loosing sleep on that poor woman sweeping the streets of Dar more than those billioneas!
     
  3. Bongolander

    Bongolander JF-Expert Member

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    Dua & Kalamu
    Hata siku moja mimi siwezi kusema adui ni mzungu, this sounds very racist to me. Siku zote mfanyabiashara yoyote yule awe mchaga, mpemba au mtu kutoka taifa lolote na rangi yoyote lengo lake ni kupata faida tena kubwa tu. Kwa hiyo kushirikiana na mfanyabiashara yoyote ile lazima mtu uwe na akili sana, nchi zote ambazo leo zimepata maendeleo ni kutokana na kuwaita wawekezaji, na kuweka masharti ambayo yananufaisha pande zote.
    Ukiangalia hapa Bongo niambie nani mzuri, Mhindi? au unataka kuniambia viongozi wetu ni wazuri kuliko wakoloni? au unataka kuniambia kuwa Mugabe ni better kuliko Smith? Hapa sioni kuwa ni suala la Mzungu/Muingereza Vs Mugabe/ Mndebele.
    Mugabe anazidi kuharibu nchi, sera hizo ni za kuwapumbaza watu, hazitabadilisha lolote. We did similar thing during Nationalization, the outcome was nightmare. Kama tunawapenda wazimbabwe ni kuwasaidia waondokane na dictator, regardless of his skin color.
     
  4. M

    MzalendoHalisi JF-Expert Member

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    Majority of wanainchi to benefit from raslimali za Zimbabwe- kama Charves Venezuela anavyofanya kwa mafuta!
     
  5. Susuviri

    Susuviri JF-Expert Member

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    Bongolander, I support what you wrote! It is not a matter of skin color but ideology!
    MzalendoHalisi FYI, Hugo Chavez anataka kuintroduce marxist ideology katika mashule! Come on! Wake up and smell the coffee. Chavez, Mugabe are all dictators but they are also populists na wanatumia maneno matamu kuwadanganya watu, Kwani akina Ceauceascu wa Romania walianzaje? What about Mao Tsetung? Do you know how many of their fellow countrymen waliwaua directly and indirectly all in the name of national interest?
    Marxist ideology is better when left in text books!
     
  6. M

    MzalendoHalisi JF-Expert Member

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    Charves pamoja na sera zake- watu maskini wa kawaida- Venezuela anawasaidia! Charves ni polulist- yes wapo tu mapopulists kibao duniani- hata Castro ana sera za Ukomunist- ila Life Expectancy Cuba iko juu kuliko ya Wamarekani!

    Taabu ni kuwa once you seem to differ in political and economic ideology with West then- lazima ubatizwe ni dictator?
     
  7. Mtanganyika

    Mtanganyika JF-Expert Member

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    Huyu mzee anaipeleka nchi yake down south. Some time ndio maana siwalaumi CIA sababu watu kama hawa someone need to put them in sleep.
     
  8. Mtanganyika

    Mtanganyika JF-Expert Member

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    Charves ni dictator! He nationalize oil refinery for his own political games. Remember Chaves oil is not crude oil, it's dirty oil which need a lot of time in purifications.

    To be ant-western while you hurts your people is not fair, Charves play politics and try to gain popularity in third world nations. Believe me, soon or later Venezuela will be another Zimbabwe.
     
  9. Susuviri

    Susuviri JF-Expert Member

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    Thank you Mtanganyika! It's high time kuacha ushabiki! Even hapa nchini watu wanapenda kuongea populist things lakini utekelezaji wake ni mgumu. Juzi nimesoma mtu hapa JF kaomba Azimio la Arusha lirudishwe! Jamani!
    Hebu tujaribu kuangalia mbele. I am not saying that we should turn to unbridled capitalism but we do need to think in more progressive terms.
    To benefit from your natural resources, ni lazima uweze kukaa na kujadiliana na wawekezaji (wa nje au wa ndani). It's a business deal.
    Many of the people wanaopiga kelele on JF are employees of the private sector, so they should remember that they earn their bread and butter from this private sector.
    Hawa akina Chavez, Mugabe na Castro, kazi yao ni kuua tu uchumi wa nchi! The propaganda kuhusu life expectancy ya Cuba kawaulize wa-Cuba wenyewe wakuambie which is better? A long life under repression or a short, brief life with freedom?! They will definitely choose the latter. Let us not even start talking about Kim Jong Il!
     
  10. M

    MzalendoHalisi JF-Expert Member

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    1. Mawazo ya kimagharibi- basi yamebrainwash watu- we no longer have critical reflexion of issues! Mtu akiangalia CNN, BBC- akisoma Wallstreet- na vitabu vilivyoandikwa na wazungu kama vingine vinavyotuambia eti Waaafrika hatujui eti kupenda wake zetu ndo maana wanazaa watoto wengi!

    2. Knowledge is power- and economic power tends to dominate the way we think of course- Swali langu ni kuwa kwa nini ni US ndo inambatiza Charves kuwa Dictator? Kwani Bush sii dictator? Musharaf sii dikiteta? Mbona madikitator wako wengi tu duniani?

    3. Wewe unadhani Cuba wako under repression? According to Western and US view- wako under repression- this is Western reality! Kama nilivyosema Life Expectancy Cuba is higher today than that of US! US pia kuna maskini wakutupwa- na omba omba kibao- and over 40 million Americans in the US do not have any health insurance- je hii sii repression of US citizens in the US soil?
     
  11. Susuviri

    Susuviri JF-Expert Member

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    Mzalendo halisi:
    You have some valid arguments, but I think that arguing about Westernized take of international affairs is not enough to argue that Chavez is NOT a dictator!
    Musharaff in my books is a dictator, just like Mobutu was even when in the eyes of USA he was a 'Savior of his people'.
    What I am saying is that living in repressive nation is not good. Period. We can call it what we want, even the East German state at that time was called the Democratic Republic of Germany! :rolleyes:
    So it is not what a country is named or a leader calls himself but what his actions are and what his policies are!
    Tusiitete Marxism just because we consider that an alternative (sole alternative) to unbridled Capitalism, when we know that every nation that walked down that path failed. Even the great Communist nation of China is experiencing unbridled Capitalism and to some extent even freedom of expression, lakini angalia government inavyopata taabu kuwa repress watu! Kila kukicha wanatafuta njia mbadala ya kuexpress them!
    Unafikiri under Castro, Chavez or Mao tungekuwa tunabadilishana mawazo hivi kwenye JF via internet?! Thubutu!
    Internet is the ultimate product of free thinking, entreprenuership!
    So let us give credit where it is due. USA has made its contribution to mankind (good and bad!) the question is what have we learnt from it? Siyo kulaumu tu!
     
  12. Bongolander

    Bongolander JF-Expert Member

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    Mzalendo you have valid and genuine arguments, George Bush kwa mtazamo wangu hana tofauti sana na madikteta wengine, mimi Binafasi nikimlinganisha yeye na Bin Laden naona kama Bina Laden ni better kwa sababu, ukiangalia vitendo vyao utaona kuwa vya Bsuh vimeua watu wengi na vinawaumiza watu wengi sana.
    Musharaaf ni dictator simple and clear, Mugabe ni Dictator Simple and clear. Issue hapa sio kuwa mzungu amesema nini na mweusi au mhindi amesema nini, tunaangalia matendo wanayofanya. It is not a question of being Eurocnetric or Afrocentric.
    Kama mzungu akifanya kitu kibaya, kama anavyofabya Bush au kama ujinga aliofanya Blair lazima tuseme kweli, lakini tusifiche ujinga unaonfanywa na weusi eti kwa sababu na sisi ni weusi it is very unwise. Paka kama ni mweusi au mweupe si muhimu cha muhimu akamate Panya. Mimi nadhani Smith alimata panya na Mugambe alifuga wengi mpaka wakaanza kumtafuna mwenyewe, tuwe wakweli.
    Ni swa na leo mimi mtu aniambie kuwa mkoloni alikuwa mbaya kwa asilimia 100, na kuwatukuza viongozi wetu wa sasa ambao wengine unaweza kuona ni wezi kuliko hata wakoloni, angalia Moi alivyowaibia wakenya, angalia Mobutu alivyowaibia wacongo, hakuna hata barabara aliyowajengea, kwanini tusiwe tunapima mambo kwenye mizani, na rangi inakuwa ndiyo msingi?.
     
  13. M

    MzalendoHalisi JF-Expert Member

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    Nimewasikia Susuviri na Bongolander,
    1. Udiktatector ni udictator tu- taabu kwa watu maskini saa ingine huleta ugumu wa maisha kama Zimb. Kwa nchi tajiri hali yaweza kuwa tofauti. Kimsingi as a Pan Africanist Mugabe mda wake umepita- angeachia tu ngazi- ingekuwa heri sana kwetu sisi Waafrika!

    2. In Afrika viongozi wazalendo are the 1st generation baada ya uhuru- they were not corrupt kama Nyerere, Nkrurumah etc. Hawa 2nd, 3rd generation sijui wengi nini kimewafika- wamekuwa wezi wa wazi2- tena bila woga!

    3. Sera ya Mugabe kutaka raslimali za madini ziwe chini ya wazawa 30% hili ni jambo zuri- Mugabe awe dictator au la! Ingewezekana Tanzania pia tukawa sera kuwa mwekezaji yoyote ktk madini 30% of shares zitakuwa na wazawa (because they own the land)- hii ingetusaidia. Taabu tu hawa wazawa wasiwe watoto wa vigogo! Hii 30% owernership yaweza kuwa chini ya Hal. ya Wilaya ambapo hii migodi ipo- na pesa inayopatikana ikajenga miumndo mbinu ktk maeneo haya!
     
  14. O

    Ogah JF-Expert Member

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    Nov 21, 2007
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    Mzalendo, Susuviri and Bongolander good discussion

    nawaomba pia muangalie movie moja iitwayo SICKO (kwa ambaye hajaiona), kila sehemu kuna mazuri yake na ubaya wake (both west and east)
     
  15. Mtanganyika

    Mtanganyika JF-Expert Member

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    Ogah SICKO is crap and bunch of lies.
    When we focus toward either dictatorship we tend to forget what is behind all that. Dictatorship is not about i love my country, it's not about i have to protect my people, it's about selfish.

    Imagine you invest billions of dollar in asset, and over night someone announced to nationalize your asset because of his political games. All dictators shares one thing, they living in their own world know as "Illusion". If you knew that your land is very important they you had two choice, either dig your own diamonds, or set contracts that said i want 30%. Hakuna mtu aliyewalazimisha kuita wawekezaji, sema unapo waita wawekezaji kisha wakaweza million za dolla, then kwa sababu zaka za kisiasa ukaamka na kudai 30%, that will never happen.

    Mugabe anawaumiza wananchi wake, and that is so sad. Chaves is lunatic, and please don't tell me life in Cuba is a dream life. Cuban are suffered because of one person, only one person.
     
  16. M

    MzalendoHalisi JF-Expert Member

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    Museveni amempa Gordon Brown somo jipya, that the West had misunderstood the Zimbabwean President. Yaani kuwa 'Mugabe is a revolutionary who fought to emancipate his people. When you are dealing with a revolutionary, you listen to his points rather than give him orders'

    Wandugu- je hili somo ni tosha?
     
  17. M

    Mwakilishi JF-Expert Member

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    Mtanganyika,

    Naomba ufafanuzi kidogo kuhusu hiyo SICKO, je yote ni uongo mtupu jamaa ametunga au kuna ukweli humo?

    Kuhusu Cuba ikiwa ni kuzuri kama inavyodaiwa mbona wengi wanajitosa baharini katika juhudi za kukimbilia Marekani tunapoambiwa kubaya watu wanateseka 40% hawana bima ya afya na ombaomba kibao?
     
  18. S

    S. S. Phares JF-Expert Member

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    Mhhh Mheshimiwa story ya Charves ni tofauti kabisa na wala sio mfano wa kuigwa na kiongozi yoyote yule. Gaddafi wa Libya ana unafuu kuliko Charves.
     
  19. S

    S. S. Phares JF-Expert Member

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    Nothing more to add...take 5.
     
  20. Susuviri

    Susuviri JF-Expert Member

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    Actually, nadhani kitu kinachohitajika hapa ni history lesson, ili tupate uelewa mzuri hawa watu wanaokuwa admired by some like Hugo Chavez (siyo Charves jamani!) ni nani katoka wapi, etc, ditto for Castro, Mugabe.
    Tusiangalie vitu kwa perspective of the present and now. Ngoja niingie mitaani online kuchimbua...
     
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