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Mkataba mwingine wa kijinga: Liganga na mchuchuma

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Misterdennis, Sep 23, 2011.

  1. M

    Misterdennis JF-Expert Member

    #1
    Sep 23, 2011
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    [h=6]NDC and a Chinese firm sign a _USD 3bn deal for Mchuchuma and Liganga Mines.

    As usual (for Tanzania) the shareholding structure is disturbing, as the Chinese firm holds 80% and Tanzania a mere 20%!!!

    Bado tuko kule kule.......... na kelele zooote zinazopigwa, bado serikali ya ccm inatuingiza kwenye mikataba isiyo na faida kwa Tanzania.

    Watazalisha umeme megawatt 600 but grid itapata 300 zingine kwa ajili ya mining ya Chuma!!!...(chuma wanataka wasafirishe kwao)
    [/h](Habari hii nimeitoa ktk facebook: imewekwa na mdau Waziri)
     
  2. Candid Scope

    Candid Scope JF-Expert Member

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    Huku kukandia kila kitu tuachane sasa. Kila kitu kibaya tu hakuna chema.

    Mikataba yote ya madini nchini serikali inapata 3% tu.
    Huu mtakata wa Makaa ya mawe na chuma Ludewa serikali inapata 20% na papo hapo kuwa na faida ya umeme kuingizwa kwenye grid ya Taifa. Ni machimbo gani ya madini yenye mkataba wenye unafuu kama huu.

    Hata hivyo bado kuna ongezeko la baadaye la serikali kupata zaidi baada ya mradi kuimarika. Hizo megawatt 300 wanazotaka zibaki kwenye eneo la mradi ni jambo zuri la kusubiria maana ni dalili kwamba kutakuwa na kazi za ajira kutokana na mipango yao.

    Ikumbukwe kwamba serikali hapa haichangii pesa, ila mwekezaji ndiye anayeingia gharama zote tofauti na baadhi ya mikataba ambayo serikali ilishawekeza.

    Watanzania tuweni na mtazamo mpana vinginevyo malalamiko yasiyo na msingi yatarudisha nyuma maendeleo.
     
  3. HISIA KALI

    HISIA KALI JF-Expert Member

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    mimi mwenyewe kwa kuwa siamini sana viongozi wa serikali ya Tanzania bado nina wasiwasi na matokeo ya huu mkataba. Lakini kama unavyosema tusibiri.
     
  4. Steve Dii

    Steve Dii JF-Expert Member

    #4
    Sep 23, 2011
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    Je, Mh. Mkapa atarudishiwa milioni 70 na ushee zake alizonunulia mgodi huo??! ... am just asking! :gossip:
     
  5. d

    dotto JF-Expert Member

    #5
    Sep 23, 2011
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    Ninini kilichosababisha Serikali kutochangia chochote? HAta hivyo agreed ya bei ya umeme itakuwa bei gani? wataiuzia serikali kwa bei gani? Subiri???
     
  6. R

    Rweye JF-Expert Member

    #6
    Sep 23, 2011
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    Nimecheka sana na jinsi ulivyofanya quotation mkuu "as usual,for Tanzania......",for real,it couldn't happen anywhere in any of African country Except, in Tanzania
     
  7. M-mbabe

    M-mbabe JF-Expert Member

    #7
    Sep 23, 2011
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    Wakuu, binafsi sina shida na concept. Shida yangu iko kwenye utekelezaji.

    Yaani leo hii nianze ghafla bin vuu kuamini eti huu si ule ule mwendelezo wa kale kaugonjwa tulikokazoea ka megattiasis (kutibu "megawatts" kwenye majukwaa ya kisiasa)!

    Lord have mercy!
     
  8. Bujibuji

    Bujibuji JF-Expert Member

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    Hivi viongozi wetu ni wapumbavu au wanahongeka kirahisi?
     
  9. Bujibuji

    Bujibuji JF-Expert Member

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    Hivi viongozi wetu ni wapumbavu au wanahongeka kirahisi?
    Kwa mtaji huu tuendelea kuwa masikini hadi rasilimali zetu zote ziishe
     
  10. engmtolera

    engmtolera Verified User

    #10
    Sep 23, 2011
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    tusubiri tuone,mala nyingi wachina niwajuawo mimi huwa hawana longolongo sana kama wa USA,wao huchukuwa mali zetu lakini pia hutuachia kitu kinacho onekana machoni na kinafaida,na mpaka ukiona wanafanya biashara nawe ujue inafaida kwako

    tuendelee kusubiri tuone
     
  11. nice 2

    nice 2 JF-Expert Member

    #11
    Sep 23, 2011
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    Ni vizuri kufanya uchunguzi kidogo ili ujue unachoandika, au kama haujui basi uliza uelimishwe. Ulitamani TZ ianze na hisa asilia 50 kwa mtaji gani mkuu? Tumeanza na asilimia 20 ila zitaongezeka mpaka asilimia 49 kadri uzalishaji unavyoongezeka. Ajira 8,000 na turnover kwa mwaka usd 1.2bn, hivi vitachangia kukuwa kwa pato la taifa,miundombinu n.k
     
  12. Candid Scope

    Candid Scope JF-Expert Member

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    Tatizo wengi wetu kila mwekezaji ni kuona kama mnyonyaji tu. Wachina wanachakujivunia hapa nchini kuanzia reli ya TAZARA, Kiwanda cha nguo cha Urafiki na mengineyo. Wajapani barabara nyingi zinazopendeza jijini dar ni wao wamezitandika mkeka. Hawa wamarekani na wa ulaya wanachoangalia ni faida yao tu na hakuna watakachotujachia. Hizi asilimia tatu za machimbo ya madini toka nchi za magharibi na wakati hakuna wanachotuachia nchini kama wachini tutakuwa wajinga kuendelea kulalamika.
     
  13. nice 2

    nice 2 JF-Expert Member

    #13
    Sep 23, 2011
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    naona haja ya kutoa elimu kwa umma ili watu waelewe na kuwa na imani. Hao wamarekani wanatudanganya na vyandarua vya mbu halafu wanaondoka na rasilimali zetu, kama enzi zilee tulivokuwa tunasoma historia mababu zetu wanaletewa gololi halafu wakoloni wanachukua almasi. Wachina kwakweli wapo focused, na uwekezaji huu ni wa pili kwa ukubwa Africa baada ya ule wa TAZARA!
     
  14. Kilasara

    Kilasara JF-Expert Member

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    Sep 23, 2011
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    Mhe. Candid Scope, with all due respect, I believe you are not correct in your approach to Mining policies.

    All minerals that are in the ground below a certain level belong to the state. Indeed an individual with a Right of Occupancy for a piece of land cannot exploiit minerals below what is normally the depth of the foundation of buildings. The rationale for the state levying "ROYALTY" is the fact that the minerals belong to "the King".

    In other countries like Botswana and South Africa the royalty is never less than 15 percent of the value of the mineral. Because of the naivity of the current government of Tanzania, "WAWEKEZAJI" of minerals have reduced Government royalty to a mere 3 percent. This is an absurd rate!!!!!!

    During the Nyerere Phase of Government the state charged 15% royalty at Mwadui Diamond Mines even when they were running at a loss. Here the mining company had to make profit by retaining only 85% of the value of the minerals they extracted from the ground. Mwalimu used to tell us (officials in the ministries) that the minerals can stay in the ground until we have the technology and capital to mine them ourselves, rather than Tanzanians receiving less than 15% of what God ordained that they belong to Tanzanians. This was patriotism at its best. It was an honor to serve under such leadership.

    We should never bend backwards in order "to have our youths employed"! Agreeing to give 80 percent of the rich Mchuchuma Coalfields and the Liganga Ironore deposits to WAWEKEZAJI because they are going to give employment to our youths and additionally produce 300 Megawatts of electricity to put in the national grid, is no reason at all. Any company, whether owned 100% by Government or local or owned by a combination of foreigners, Government and locals could exploit these resources and sell to us the products like 300 MW etc, if there was the will and determination in a patriotic fashion to run this country properly.

    The WAWEKEZAJI are going to raise loan moneys from the world money markets and we may even discover that it is Japanese/American/ European equipment which will be used for the projects.
     
  15. B

    Bukyanagandi JF-Expert Member

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    Sep 23, 2011
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    Ingawa huwa kuna msemo usemao " Once bitten twice shy" mimi binafsi sina wasi wasi na project hii, actually nime furahia sana sana na kumshukuru sana Hon. Mzindakaya kwa ufatiliaji wake makini. Ndugu zanguni for the first time ndiyo nimeona nchi yetu imefanya jambo moja la kujivunia - products za chuma ni za muhimu sana katika kusaidia maendeleo ya nchi yetu.

    Wachina wana huwezo sana katika fani hii ya ufuuhaji chuma duniani na watu hawa ni hard working na nakuhakikishia machimbo na kiwanda cha uyeyushaji chuma utakamilika in no TIME, wachina wanafanya kazi usiku na mchana - mimi ningekuwa na wasi wasi kama mradi huu wangepewa wahindi. Kitu kingine ni kwamba serikali ya kichina haina mchezo na mambo ya kula rushwa,yeyeto akigundulika amekula rushwa anatwangwa risasi adhalani - hawana mchezo katika hilo.

    Kuhusu kugawana mapato naona kwa kuwa wachina ndiyo wanacontribute a lions share ya capital ( machine,majengo,ujenzi wa reli umeme etc) basi watakuwa justified kuchukuwa vile vile a lions share katika ROI yao, sema wachian ni watu wastaharabu sana mwisho wa safari wanaweza kukubalia Serikali ya Tanzania kuongezewa shares zao, hawana tabu kuhusu hilo; kitu ambacho wanahitaji sana kwao ni mkaa wa mawe huo watauchukua sana lakini watabakiza mkaa kwa kuzalisha umeme na katika kuzalisha chuma cha pua mkaa unahitajika, watu wanazungumzia umeme ni kweli uyeyushaji wa chuma unahitaji umeme mwingi sana kwa hiyo tusishangae kuona umeme utakao ingizwa kwenye grid ya taifa kutoka kwenye kiwanda chao utakuwa nusu ya capacity yao.

    Mimi labda niseme kwamba Serikali yetu hihakikishe kwamba chuma cha pua kinazalishwa hapa hapa nchini na wasikubali wachina kuchukuwa chuma ghafi Uchina na sisi kutuletea finished product! Hapo wanapashwa kuwakomaria wakileta pendekezo kama hilo Serikali hisikubali. Mwisho tukumbuke kwamba Uchina kwa sasa hivi unakuja juu sana katika viwanda vya utumiaji wa bidhaa za chuma kwa hiyo hata kama chuma itazalishwa hapa nchini kitaishia kusafirishwa UCHINA tutake tusitake.
     
  16. L

    LATTICE BOND JF-Expert Member

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    Sep 23, 2011
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    Tuachaneni kujidanganya jamani!
    Wizara ya Nishati na Madini haina negotiators wa kukabiliana na wale wa Kichina jamani! tuache gilba za kujidanya ni mkataba wa kutusaidia NVER ON EARTH!!
    Guyz trust me when I say there is no negotiator within our top officials to negotiate with Chinese intellectuals!!
    Lazima huo mkataba ni ule wa akina Mangungo!! Tena huenda zaidi hata ile ya madini!!
    Jamaa wanakuja kuhamisha kila kitu nasi tutaambulia mashima na watoto wa kichotara tu!
    Namuomba mungu anijaze uhai niishi kuona watoto wetu wanavyowachinja watoto wa akina Ridhi kwa kutuingiza mikataba ya kipumbafu!!
     
  17. Japhari Shabani (RIP)

    Japhari Shabani (RIP) R I P

    #17
    Sep 23, 2011
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    cha kusikitisha na ndio ukwel viongozi wetu wana sifa zote mbili ulizozitaja .HUU NDIO MTAJI WA CCM NA KABURI LA WALALAHOI.MUNGU IBARIKI TANZANIA.
     
  18. Candid Scope

    Candid Scope JF-Expert Member

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    Sep 24, 2011
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    Mpendwa Kilasara, kati ya mawili tunatakiwa kuchagua lililo nafuu. Haya ya akina Barricks huko North Mara yanachefua kila kukicha. Hali ya kutumia rushwa ya wazi hadi kuwahongwa wabunge kwa kuwapelekea ndege wanapoenda kuchunguza na pia kuwamegea kila mjumbe kuondoka na bahasha inakera.

    Wachina hawana mambo hayo, wako wazi kabisa, na kama watasomba mataluma ya vyuma yatapitia bandarini. Hizi asilimia 20 si ndogo kwa kuanzia ukilinganisha na asilimia 3 ambazo serikali inapata toka makampuni ya nchi za magharibi. Bora kwa hawa hata yaliyomo ndani ya mkataba tumeambiwa, lakini haya makampuni ya ulaya na marekani mikataba imefanyika kwa siri jambo ambalo halina vielelezo vya wazi kwa umma.

    Mpaka leo tunamsifia sana mkoloni mjerumani licha ya kutuchapa viboko wakati wa kujenga reli ya kati na ya kaskazini. Hadi leo ni reli yao ndiyo usafiri wa kuaminika kwa miaka 50 ya uhuru, je mwingereza ana nini cha kujivunia kwa Tanzania yetu? Jibu unalo. Mchina naye alipojenga reli ya Tazara utendaji ni mithili ya mjerumani, hakuna mzaha na kama u mvivu rudi nyumbani, na leo usafiri wa pili wa kujivunia tulioachiwa na watendaji wa mataifa ya nje ni reli ya Tazara iliyojengwa na Mchina. Hapo Kilasara bado unameza mate?

    Miradi yote ya madini mataifa ya magharibi hakuna hata mmoja ambao unamikakati ya vitegauchumi kitaifa, bali wamekuja kusomba na kupeleka kwao na hata serikali haipati kodi stahili licha ya kukosa ubia stahiki. Tuendelee kusubiri wenyewe tuchimbe madini ya Liganga na mchuchuma wakati wananchi ndio wanarudia hali mbaya ya maisha kuliko ilivyokuwa tunapata uhuru?

    Tembea nchi mbalimbali duniani uchumi umejengeka kutokana na mwingiliano wa mataifa kiuchumi. Taifa la marekani linavyojivunia angalia taifa namba moja kuingiza bidhaa marekani ni China. Na kinachoikuza china kiuchumi si kodi kama marekani bali utendaji. Pia marekani makampuni mengi ni ya raia wa mataifa mengine, na Marekani inanufaika na kodi, kwa maana hiyo kuona kwamba wachina kuchimba madini huko Ludewa watasomba yote kupeleka China ni mtazamo finyu maana hapa hatuna viwanda vya kuzalisha products zitokanazo na chuma, ila kutokana na uwepo wa chuma na uzalishaji hapo makampuni mengi ya kigeni yatavutika kuja kuanzisha uzalishaji wa bidhaa zitokanazo na chuma hapa hapa nchini ili kupunguza gharama za usafirishaji.

    Bora Mchina kwa kuwa tumekuwa na vielelezo vya awali alivyofanya hapa nchini kuliko kukosa yote kwa kuweka kigezo cha makampuni ya nchi za magharibi ambazo zinamfumo wa kinyonyaji bila kujali wavuja jasho.
     
  19. t

    tarita Senior Member

    #19
    Sep 24, 2011
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    Kama mnaweza kuhongwa suti 5.Kila kitu kinawezekana ktk nchi hii.Mikataba ya mababu zetu bado inaendelea kuingiwa.Waliosaini mkataba huu ni walewale walioisaini yote mibovu.Sijawasikia wakitubu dhambi hiyo wala kujutia jambo hilo.Ni kitu gani kinawafanya muamini kuwa huu mkataba ni bora? Unaweza kuwa mzuri kwa ulinganifu tu lakini ni BORA?!!Hekima ya serikali hii ya CCM ni uongo,busara yao ni uongo.Try believing them you will see the results.Mbona mwalimu aliona ni heri kusubiri tupate wasomi watakaoingia mikataba iliyobora hata 15% haikuwa bora.Mwl angeamini ni bora basi tungechimba madini yetu wakati huo leo hatungekuwa na shida ya wezi hawa.
     
  20. lifeofmshaba

    lifeofmshaba JF-Expert Member

    #20
    Sep 24, 2011
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    Hapana AKILI sasa itumike
    CHINA wametoa trillion 5 na mkataba huo huko wazi, wakati wa uzalishaji wa mwanzo watamiliki 80% ya mradi
    mpaka watakapo rudisha hela yao, jumla ya MW 1800 za umeme zitazalishwa mradi utakapo kamilika na sio MW 600
    kama mtoa mada anavyojaribu kuhabarisha
    baada ya wachina kurudisha hela yao serikali inaweza kumili 49% ya SHARE ya huo mradi,
    hakuna mkataba bora kama huu, hapa mtoa mada kaangalia upande mmoja tu wa shillingi
    je kama sisi tungeenda BANK kukopa kwa riba za kibank tungelipa shilingi ngapi?

    sio kila kitu kulalama na sio kweli serikali inaweza kufanya kila kitu kwa kutegemea mapato yake ya ndani
    serikali kama UINGEREZA walishindwa kuwekeza kwenye moja ya DARAJA katika barabara M25 inayouzunguka mji wa LONDON
    wakaingia mkataba kama huu na muwekezaji kwa sasa anachukua mapato karibu yote yanayotokana na hilo daraja maana kuvuka/kutumia hiyo daraja unatakiwa kulipia, hatakapo rudisha pesa yake ndio anaondoka, hiyo ni pamoja na ghalama na kujenga kulitunza na kila kitu huu ni mkataba wa life time
    lakini waingereza pamoja na utajiri wao wanashukuru maana kama serikali ingekopa kufanya hiyo shughuli wao ndio wangeumizwa na RIBA za KIBANK
    wakati mwingine tunapo pata mikataba ya kihuduma kama huu tuwe makini kuiongelea so kila muda kutia nukusi tu

    hapa tunachotakiwa kujadiri ni ujajibikaji na utekerezaji wa huo mkataba

    tuwe siasa pembeni tunaweza kuwa masikini wa mwisho duniani kwa kupinga kila kitu
    SERIKALI YA CHINA SIO YA KITAPELI HAO NI WATU MAKINI TUWAPE SIFA ZAO
     
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