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Mgogoro ziwa Nyasa: Tahadhari kwa watanzania, hasa watumiaji wa JF

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by George Kahangwa, Aug 4, 2012.

  1. George Kahangwa

    George Kahangwa Verified User

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    Aug 4, 2012
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    Wakuu,

    Pamoja na mijadala kadhaa inayoendelea hapa JF kuwa na hoja zilizo nzuri kwa maslahi ya taifa letu, upo uwezekano mkubwa kwamba, maadam mchokozi na watu wake nao wanajua Kiswahili, pengine wako nasi mtandaoni wakifuatilia kila kinachoandikwa kwa sababu zao za kiintelijensia.

    Hivyo tunapoendelea kujadili, si vibaya kutahadhari tusijikute tumesaidia kumweleza adui kila udhaifu tulionao. Badala yake, tunaweza kujikita katika kuanika kile anachoendelea kufanya katika eneo letu na kile anachokusudia kufanya baadaye.

    Wazee wa kule kanda ya ziwa Nyanza wana msemo; Zamani chui alikuwa hajui kukamata shingo la mawindo yake, alijifunza baada ya kusikia mawindo ya kinong'ona kwamba; ‘tunachomoka maana anakamata mikia, siku akikamata shingoni, tumekwisha'
     
  2. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Kama intellijensia yao inategemea JF wamekwisha.

    Maana kuna watu wanakupa story utafikiri walikuwepo sehemu ya tukio, kumbe kamba tupu!

    Mie namsoma James Mayall kwenye hiyo JStor article. Ahsante kwa mdau aliyetutupia PDF.
     
  3. George Kahangwa

    George Kahangwa Verified User

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    Of course hawawezi kutegemea JF tu, lakini JF licha ya kwamba inareflect public opinion, ni mwalimu pia wa hiyo hiyo public.
    Aidha, imesemwa hapa mara nyingi, kwamba laiti hata vyombo vyetu vingetilia maanani kinachoandikwa JF, tungeepuka mengi.


    Kwa faida ya wengine, article uliyoitaja hii hapa;
    http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/161618?uid=3738032&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&sid=21101118882441
     
  4. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Nyerere alikuwa hana akili nzuri kweli mchizi yule, alale pema. Sijui kama tutapata wit kama ile.

    Anakwambia the insanity of the claim was proven by the fact that the eastern shore was constantly mobile pp 10 (The Nationalist, 13 September 1968)
     
  5. George Kahangwa

    George Kahangwa Verified User

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    Dokezo tu, kwamba hapa JF wamalawi wanachungulia sana/ni chanzo chao cha habari, gazeti lao la Nyasatimes limeandika hivi (limefanya reference JF);

    Cold war over Lake Malawi continues: Ghost of Kamuzu, Nyerere revisit Malawi

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    Malawi: 2012, July: "But our terms are clear on this. According to the 1890 ecoland agreement between Britain and Germany, the border between Malawi and Tanzania is the edge of the waters of Lake Malawi. So we are very clear about that but we will continue to engage with Tanzania as a good neighbour," Patrick Kabambe, Principal Secretary, Principal Secretary in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation, Malawi quoted by Malawi's Daily Times.

    Tanzania: 2012, July: "We don't want Tanzanians to ask for permission from Malawi to fetch water or fish from Lake Nyasa. If we don't reach a consensus, we will take recourse in international law." Tanzania‘s Attorney General Judge Frederick Werema, responding to a concern from the Member of Parliament for Mbeya Region (special seats), Hilda Ngoye.

    Ms Ngoye had charged that the Malawian tourists and fishing boats have been trespassing on Tanzanian territorial waters at will, http://www.jamiiforums.com/jukwaa-la-sheria-the-law-forum/299533-tanzania-malawi-row-over-lake-nyasa-again-5.html escalating tensions.

    "Tanzanians around Lake Nyasa's shores have the right to fish or engage in other productive activities on the lake, without being intimidated," she had told the Tanzanian parliament, demanding an explanation from the government on the status of the border between Tanzania and Malawi.

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    Kamuzu and Nyerere

    The gist of the dispute:
    T he dispute is about who owns what is, as far as Malawians are concerned, Lake Malawi and as far as Tanzanians are concerned, Lake Nyasa.

    According to Malawi, this isn't even a subject for debate. Malawi owns 100% of Lake Malawi and if we are to go by the vision of Malawi's founding president, Dr. Hastings Kamuzu Banda, Malawi just like its predecessor the Maravi Kingdom should in fact http://www.iss.org.za/pubs/Books/Evol_Revol%20Oct%2005/Chap5.pdf%20 extend to some parts of present day Tanzania and even Mozambique.

    According to Tanzania on the other hand, the lake is shared and the http://edocs.nps.edu/npspubs/scholarly/theses/2011/June/11Jun_Msafiri.pdf boundary of these two neighbouring countries should follow the median line in Lake Nyasa.

    This is the official stance of the Tanzanian Government hence any Malawian activity beyond this line are deemed "trespassing". The Historical Context; This dispute traces its origin to the Berlin Conference, and trouble is rooted in the Berlin Act of 1885, that was signed by the 13 European powers that attended the conference that formalised the BBC - History - British History in depth: Slavery and the 'Scramble for Africa'

    Scramble for Africa
    According to documents on the demarcation of the border around Lake Nyasa encapsulated by the Anglo-Germany Treaty of July 1, 1890 – verbatim – the border runs as below:"To the south by the line that starts on the coast of the northern border of Mozambique Province and follows the course of the Rovuma River to the point where the Messinge flows into the Rovuma. From here the line runs westward on the parallel of latitude to the shore of Lake Nyasa. Turning north, it continues along the eastern, northern, and western shores of the lake until it reaches the northern bank of the http://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/pdf/eng/606_Anglo-German%20Treaty_110.pdf "mouth of the Songwe, Tanzania, of course, doesn't agree with this, with Tanzanian scholars calling this demarcation http://edocs.nps.edu/npspubs/scholarly/theses/2011/June/11Jun_Msafiri.pdf.

    Put to Kamuzu Banda by Tanzania's Julius Nyerere that the map between independent Malawi and Tanzania should follow the median line, in his unique blunt style Dr. Banda responded as below: "We will never recognize or accept this claim: we will never agree to the suggestion or proposal.

    The Lake has always belonged to Malawi….Everyone knew Nyerere as a coward and communist inspired jellyfish: We know while pretending to be a staunch supporter of the OAU, Nyerere is the worst agitator and betrayer of the cause for which the Organization was formulated. History, geography or even ethnical knowledge will convince Nyerere that four districts to the South of Tanganyika belong to us by nature. It is only that we respect the feasible unification of Mother Africa that we do not claim these districts. All that we are doing is setting [sic] historical truth."

    Dr. Banda in 1962 reinforced his claim in addition to the authority of the Anglo-Germany Treaty of July 1, 1890 with some maps from the "http://www.societyofmalawi.org/talks/nationalarchives.pdf. He even went as far as suggesting to Mwalimu Julius Nyerere that a part of http://www.ajol.info/index.php/asr/article/viewFile/23256/19939 Mozambique was supposed to be part of Malawi– then still Nyasaland.

    But as is usually case in any dispute, Tanzania is equally able to produce maps that show the median as the boundary, but such maps have never disputed the contents and spirit of the Anglo-Germany Treaty of July 1, 1890.

    Pre-Independence Treaties and the Lake Malawi /Nyasa dispute:
    The reason this dispute will not disappear any day soon is rooted in Malawi's and Tanzania's divergent views vis-à-vis pre-independence treaties including the Anglo-Germany Treaty.

    Julius Nyerere, as the first Tanganyika Prime Minister, prepared a policy document for implementation after independence in which the Secretary-General of the United Nations was informed thus:

    "As regards bilateral treaties validly concluded by the United Kingdom on behalf of the territory of Tanganyika, or validly applied or extended by the former to the territory latter, the Government of Tanganyika is willing to continue to apply within the territory, on a basis of reciprocity, the terms of all such treaties for a period of 2 years from the date of independence [i.e. until 8 December 1963] unless abrogated or modified by mutual consent. At the expiry of that period, the government of Tanganyika will regard such of these treaties, which could not by the application of the customary international law be regarded as otherwise surviving, as having terminated."

    As a result, http://edocs.nps.edu/npspubs/scholarly/theses/2011/June/11Jun_Msafiri.pdf Tanzania refused to recognize the treaties that naturally gave the lake to Malawi on independence on 6 July 1964 since its allegiance to such expires on December 8, 1963.

    And this was the major recipe for this dispute because, it meant that in practice; Malawi and Tanzania now had different points of reference, which explains the continued stand-off.

    Parties that have different points of reference in any argument are as good as parallel lines. They can never meet. In the least, it explains where Malawi and Tanzania are at, with respect to Lake Malawi a.k.a Lake Nyasa.

    In all likelihood, Dr. Banda would have viewed such a policy, which was supposed to be outward looking but designed in a way that only serves internal interests, with utter contempt.

    Any merit in Tanzania's claim to half the lake?
    Having said all this one then wonders if Tanzanians are mad to be claiming half the lake and on what basis some map makers show the median line as the boundary. There are several International Conventions that deal with rights associated with water.

    Rights associated with water that is not flowing are called littoral. Generally land beneath non-sovereign lakes are owned by the surrounding upland owners. When all the deeds call to the lake, each owner has title to a centre point. This principle is referred to riparian rights and is the basis for Tanzania's claim.

    Should Malawi buy this?
    From the statement of Patrick Kabambe, Malawi's Principal Secretary in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation, this seems like a far-fetched idea and one is tempted to subscribe to this thought.

    "Indeed, we went for discussion on the border issue and we categorically put it to them that as far we are concerned, the entire lake belongs to Malawi."

    The point is: if one person unilaterally decides to annul existing international treaties (like the Anglo-Germany Treaty – which by the way is all there is on this – and both Tanzanians and Malawians were not represented which makes them both victims); why should another person suffer from subscribing to the treaty?

    Advice to Malawi: Let's by all means meet, eat, drink together, and talk with Tanzania. But the talking will not undo the Anglo-Germany Treaty.

    As Dr. H. Kamuzu Banda used to say, we are all brothers and sisters – the maps and divisions were imposed on us by the colonialists; therefore, let us all (Malawians and Tanzanians) fish and swim in the beautiful Lake Malawi.

    But please, our brothers and sisters from across the border shouldn't stop us from exploring ventures that can lift our livelihood and economy.

    Just as the learned Tanzanian scholar, http://edocs.nps.edu/npspubs/scholarly/theses/2011/June/11Jun_Msafiri.pdf, quoted William Shakespeare – Merchant of Venice, we will go a step further and paraphrase the same: Tanzania will be taking our lives, if Tanzania takes away the means by which we want to prosper and live!
     
  6. George Kahangwa

    George Kahangwa Verified User

    #6
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    Angalia mjadala, matusi, nk yaliyofuata kwenye hiyo article
    Naona na baadhi ya watanzania wenzetu wanajibu mapigo (kidding; sijui tuwaitie Lusinde wetu?)

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    [TD]August 1st, 2012 at 10:35 am
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    [TD]History itself can tell, that this lake is ours AND not the so called Ministers,esp in TZ. Let the rule of law be respected here AND not personal interests!
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    [TD]August 1st, 2012 at 11:06 am
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    [TD]…am smelling war with THESE ARABS SWAHILIS.
    -from the context we led its clear-the lake is ours.
    -am worried with these arabs, i think ALBASHIL is involved.
    -MALAWI and TANZANIA are brothers, therefore i edge both parties to continue discause.
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    [TD]August 1st, 2012 at 1:28 pm
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    [TD]This is the time we will always remember,need the visionary and strong leaders MALAWI GET UP,STAND UP
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    [TD]August 1st, 2012 at 1:38 pm
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    [TD]If Tanzania proposed at the OAU that the existing colonial borders should be the borders of the then newly independent states should be existing colonial border, why then should special condition apply to Lake Malawi?
    Malawi too has its grievances with regard to the existing borders and if anything, the discussion of the demarcation of the border should not be restricted to water alone but land. The people residing in the eastern shores of lake Malawi are ethnically Malawians and it will only be proper if Tanzania ceded that part of the country to Malawi.
    Is there a good reason to make a special case for Tanzania?
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    [TD]August 1st, 2012 at 1:45 pm
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    [TD]This article offers a great analysis of the ‘dilemma' as it is and was….I hope Madam president will get across this one and take it seriously :)-
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    [TD="align: left"]Horace Says:
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    [TD]August 1st, 2012 at 2:28 pm
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    [TD]Wow. I always admire your writing, O Wise One. And this one is nicely supplemented by existing documentation. You must be part of the delegation that will be meeting the Tanzanians. You seem to have facts to back up any arguments you might formulate.
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    [TD="align: left"]kadya nkena Mbiri Nja Nkhoswe!! Says:
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    [TD]August 1st, 2012 at 2:44 pm
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    [TD]Tanzania seems to have never been a good neighbor but a betrayer of an African bother it clearly know that part of the south soil of the south of It. is Nyasaland yet it claimed it to be its own even now the Lake which they call it nyasa the lake of nyasaland it even want to share our half…. LET MALAWI AS A NATION SAY A BIG NOOOOOO!!! TO THIS GREEDY BROTHER you never know one day Tanzania will wake up one morning and claim that the whole lake belongs to them!! this is very abnormal!!
    this greedy Nation still have Adolf hitler notions in its operation and thinking….
    mind you not even the Germans thinks that Hitler was right to start the World war 2. so how can Tanzania at this hour claimed to be right!!
    I KADYA NKENA MBIRI NJA NKHOSWE AS A CONCERN CITIZEN SAYS NOOO TO THE TANZANIANS REQUEST…
    THEY MUST NOT MISUNDERSTAND ALLOWING THEM TO SHARE OUR LAKE FOR THEIR DOMESTIC PURPOSES DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE OTHER PART BELONGS TO THEM….
    THEY SHOULD AT LEAST APPRECIATE OUR KING NESS AND QUITE…. WEWE VIPI? LAKE NYASA IS FOR NYASA PEOPLE THE PEOPLE OF NYASALAND!!
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    [TD="align: left"]kodi chanthunya alipo? Says:
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    [TD]August 1st, 2012 at 2:47 pm
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    [TD]TZ and MOZ have access to the sea. They have huge potential oil and gas fields not to mention the millions they make on port fees from landlocked countries like MW, ZA and ZW. There is no reason for us to back down to the Taifas.
    Iether they get the **** out of lake Malawi or we claim a piece of their land on the Indian Ocean as an enclave. Unfortunately, since we are a bwanaboy, timid people, we will lose this case.
    Samatokota bwanji Bingu ali moyo?
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    [TD="align: left"]Sheikh Yusufu Mulamba Says:
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    [TD]August 1st, 2012 at 2:47 pm
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    [TD]Abiti Kahuna Ntila, mumufunse Hillary Clinton akabwera Sunday kuti pamenepa titani madonor?
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    [TD]August 1st, 2012 at 2:55 pm
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    [TD]the lake is ours. that's it. palibeso kuti wina aziti fwefwe. kaya tifunamo mafuta, kaya nsomba, kaya nchenga, that's our business. talkwa kukhala pakati?
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    [TD]August 1st, 2012 at 3:01 pm
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    [TD]In other words, wise one, this is a stalemate! Do we define our existence as a nation from the time the colonialists declared we existed as a territory, or do we go beyond that to the time of the Marabvi kingdom or beyond, when the "akafula" roamed the land?
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    [TD]August 1st, 2012 at 3:02 pm
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    [TD]This issue is indeed not negotiable. We cannot reopen the wounds inflicted upon us by the infamous Berlin Conference lest the issue escalate further into other silent issues. We have also kept wondering why Malawi was demarcated to be such a small potatoe shaped country surrounded by giants. Surely some of our terrotory must have been stolen. If we have to reopen these issues, lets broaden the framework of discussion and not just limit it to lake Malawi. We also feel there is a genuine justification for our territory to extend to the Indian ocean somewnhere somehow. We would rather return to the prehistoric Maravi Kingdom rather than be restricted to this small country. If Tanzania, Mozambique and Zambia are willing to talk within this broader framework then we are ready to come to the party.
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    [TD]August 1st, 2012 at 3:27 pm
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    [TD]APA NDIPAMENE A CHAKULUNGWA A INTERNATIONAL LAW BAMBO PETER MUTHARIKA AKUFUNIKA TSOPANO.TANZANIA ON THE OTHER HAND, WAONA KUTI PALOWA MBOLA YA PRESIDENT,NDE AKUFUNA JB AKAFUNSE MA DONA KUTI KODI NYANJAYI NDI YA THU KAPENA AYI? KODI NANGA MUNGATHE KUTITHANDIZA? TILOLA MA GAY KUTI ADZICHITA MITALA. TIPANGANSO DEVALUE MADZI KUTI AKHALE MATOPE

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    [TD]August 1st, 2012 at 3:32 pm
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    [TD]Guys, tiyeni nawoni mataifa. Tikokere Malawi akafike ku Indian ocean. Mwayi ndiwomwewu basi. Ndipo tichite mwachanguchangu. MA are you ready?
    Akuyishosha okha. Tikangotero, Za pwitikizi ndi Nyasa Corridor ndiye kuti zatha, after all its very expensive. Malawi woyeeeeee.
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    [TD]August 1st, 2012 at 3:33 pm
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  7. George Kahangwa

    George Kahangwa Verified User

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    Aug 4, 2012
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    [TD]third world war ikayamba,ife tdzamenyana ndi tanzania believe it or not.
    I Agree with mr fuel.ma arab kwawo ndi kupha,kuononga ndi kuba.analowa mmalo mwa satana ndikhulupilileni.
    timaona ndife anthu wamba koma inu anthu andale mumazindikila pa last minute.
    mashahili kwao mkuchotsa zikopa ma albino becareful my fellow malawians before its too late
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    [TD="align: left"]Moya Says:
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    [TD]August 1st, 2012 at 3:51 pm
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    [TD]The wise one, you should indeed be part of delegation to TZ. I have looked at the comments to the subject and am awe struck by the oneness potrayed by all. Their belong to mother Malawi and standing up for her. BIG UP guys.
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    [TD="align: left"]Madala Says:
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    [TD]August 1st, 2012 at 4:39 pm
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    [TD]Remember this has been prophesied by prophet Bushiri.
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    [TD="align: left"]Dinyelofecalo Says:
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    [TD]This is a total greedy by our neighbour,how come on Earth humans think like small creatures?it is absolutely anacceptable to what Tanzanians think of our beloved malawi.We are going expose them until they tell us the truth about the other land they have stolen from us.
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    [TD="align: left"]Caz rol Says:
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    [TD]August 1st, 2012 at 6:06 pm
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    [TD]This is a crisis.parliament shd b called and a bill on conscription be proposed,debated and passed.another bill for funds to buy tanks,artillery,guns and other weapons even chemical.we need to be prepared lest all our neighbours will claim a chunk of our land.
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    [TD="align: left"]kaleesta Says:
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    [TD]August 1st, 2012 at 6:10 pm
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    [TD="align: left"]BigMan Says:
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    [TD]August 1st, 2012 at 6:36 pm
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    [TD]These Taifa's are playing with fire here. This is Lake ‘Malawi' and I for one am ready to go to war if that is what it takes to school them about ownership of the Lake. They will pay in blood and tears!
    General Odillo please don't waste any time, this is not a time for diplomacy, look at the misfortune that this PP regime's constant smiling and begging has brought for us, even Swahili's want to ride us bareback in our own lake. Athileni ma stunt grenade agalu amenewa right at the boarder, let them ran to Kikwete and tell him kutu kwanukha utsi ku Lake Malawi! This is where we miss Chitsulo cha njanji, he would not have bitten his words over this insult by Kikwete.
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    [TD="align: left"]Wa Nzeru Wa kum'mawa Says:
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    [TD]August 1st, 2012 at 6:59 pm
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    [TD]Big up Wise One,
    I have been looking for such analysis to the history of this dispute, now it seems clear. To defuse the Taifas claim, we as Malawians let's also counter by claiming that land in the prehistoric era.
    Maravi for Malawi
    Nyasa for Nyasaland
    Lake Nyasa for Nyasaland.
    Lake Malawi for Malawi.
    On this one, I am ready to join the barracks to fight for my legitimate boarders. I urge the MDF to start recruiting more of us who are willing for this cause.

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    [TD="align: left"]basa Says:
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    [TD]August 1st, 2012 at 9:20 pm
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    [TD]Is it Lake Tanzania? NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!
    Is it Lake Mozambique? NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!
    Is it Lake Zambia? NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!
    The lake's name is lake Malawi. PERIOD!
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    [TD="align: left"]kukhala Says:
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    [TD]August 1st, 2012 at 10:03 pm
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    [TD]Yes good history for me. I missed and did this position. But most people that lakes or similar bodies most of them grow and claim further land outwards. Tanzanians claim may be appropriate. Please advise on experiences as mentioned herein. Anyway challenges need to be resolved.
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    [TD="align: left"]friend Says:
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    [TD]August 1st, 2012 at 10:08 pm
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    [TD]It seems that some of our Tanzanian wa Swahili friends want a some of the oil proceeds, if there is any? They would never make this an issue otherwise.Let us talk but don't give them an inch of the lake or a drop of oil!! They have been blessed with much in Tanzania!! You know that they will never be satisfied…..
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    [TD="align: left"]Humphrey's Titus Nthara Jnr Says:
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    [TD]August 1st, 2012 at 11:19 pm
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    [TD]Ladies and Gentlemen in TAnzania can you help me on this one,if you had a mango tree on your house and the tree has some fruits which are dangling at your neighbours yard, can the neighbour claim that part of the tree branch and its fruits dangling on the other side of her house is hers?? Taifas the best you can do which i can accept is ENJOY THE FRUITS FORGET ABOUT THE TREE, mind you we have the best civil service you cannot win this case, you have LAKE VICTORIA,YOU HAVE LAKE TANGANYIKA MORE OVER THE GIANT INDIAN OCEAN WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANT? leave the lake to us. Nyasaland and Tanganyika are too different names they dont even match shame on you TAIFAS.
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    [TD="align: left"]kuwapunira Says:
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    [TD]August 1st, 2012 at 11:28 pm
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    [TD]Koma mukuyamba zimenezi chifukwa choti chitsulo cha njanji chafa.
    Mitu zanu nonse ma TAIFA.
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    [TD="align: left"]Mixere Says:
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    [TD]August 2nd, 2012 at 7:29 am
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    [TD]I beta die fytn 4wats myn thn leav en c my neba takn advntag of my silenc….
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    [TD="align: left"]Penicillin Says:
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    [TD]August 2nd, 2012 at 8:56 am
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    [TD]They own part of Lake Victoria, Lake Tanganyika and a big big chunk of the Indian Ocean. Why the **** do they want part of our lake?!?!?!
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    [TD="align: left"]sidney Says:
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    [TD]August 2nd, 2012 at 10:12 am
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    [TD]What belongs to me is for me,and if people witnesses that it belongs to me then it is for me fore ever,i will never allow some one to just take it away from me alive unless i am killed.I can't give it to others unless it is of no use to me.Have the right to fight what belongs to you and people will help you if you fall in the stream of your wicknes.
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  8. George Kahangwa

    George Kahangwa Verified User

    #8
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  9. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

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    Yaani jamaa kamalizia vibaya kabisa.

    Kwa hiyo "tuwahurumie kwa sababu wana njaa" ndiyo basis ya argument nzima?

    Nilifikiri atakuja na something grand based on all the documents cited.

    Halafu Waafrika tuna tabu sana.

    Naona hao Wamalawi na Watanzania wengine wako gung ho kwenda vitani wakati siajabu hata kisu cha butter wanakiogopa.
     
  10. nyabhingi

    nyabhingi JF-Expert Member

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    i smell war,.they talk with confidence they must have a strong western backing,because if not mwamunyange will smash this little country like a roach
     
  11. dogojanja 87

    dogojanja 87 JF-Expert Member

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    tutapeleka wale wanajeshi wetu wa "maonesho",mabingwa wa kupiga ngumi vitofali na kutembea juu ya moto..af wenzetu wametega rader za maana na vifaa vya kisasa vya kivita..si tunajifanya hatuamini teknolojia katika jeshi,ngoja sasa....
     
  12. P

    Precise Pangolin JF-Expert Member

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    Ngoja tupeleke lile jeshi letu la kwata wakati as maadhimisho ya uhuru wa ccm jamaa watufundishe vita
     
  13. M

    Mwanaharakatihuru JF-Expert Member

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    Du afadhali bwana jamaa wamekula shushu zaidi ya miaka 30 wanakula bata tuuu sasa wapigane wAone joto ya jiwe
     
  14. b

    bob68 Member

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    Kama ni eneo lao waende wakashushe bendera ya Taifa wapandishe yao,si maneno tu,Uganda na Kenya mwaka jana walikuwa wanagombania kisiwa ziwa Victoria MIGINGO kukawa na bendera 2 hakukuwa na maneno ni vitendo wakaona hali inaelekea kubaya ndo wakakaa kuelewana sasa hawa kama wao watemi wapandishe bendera yao kwenye ardhi ya TANZANIA
     
  15. c

    coil Member

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    Hawa wamalawi wanachekesha kweli,hivi si kuna border pale kwa nini waseme lake yote yao...?
     
  16. Bavaria

    Bavaria JF-Expert Member

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    honestly and seriously, lets take what is ourz. Hao jamaa tuwadunde haswa.
     
  17. mysteryman

    mysteryman JF-Expert Member

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    this is going too far.....
     
  18. Cha Moto

    Cha Moto JF-Expert Member

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    Hawa wanakiherehere tu,
    Nina uhakika kwa asilimia 100 na zaidi, katika hili waTZ ni wamoja na tutashinda kudai kilicho chetu iwe kwa mazungumzo au mtutu.
     
  19. BHULULU

    BHULULU JF-Expert Member

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    Hata hujui unaongea nini
     
  20. andrewk

    andrewk JF-Expert Member

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    Taarifa za kiinteligensio wanazipata kwa kuwa wana ubarozi hapa Tanzania, na nadhani hata sisis tunazipata pia, maana tuna balozi kule, sasa inategemea na uweledi wa mafisa wetu, lakini hapa kwa JF lazima tuendelee kujuzana nini kinaendeleaaaa
     
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