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Mfundisheni Mbowe kuh:Zanzibar

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Mwiba, Nov 30, 2010.

  1. Mwiba

    Mwiba JF-Expert Member

    #1
    Nov 30, 2010
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    Suala la kuifuatilia Zanzibar na kutaka kuifananisha na mikoa ya Tanganyika lilimtokea puani Waziri Mkuu Pinda na hadi hii leo hatamani hata kulizungumza na hivyo hivyo lilimpelekea Raisi Kikwete kusema Zanzibar ni Nchi.

    Leo hii Mheshimiwa Mbowe nae anataka kujivika koti la ukamandoo kuhoji Zanzibar na kama haitoshi eti atafikisha Bungeni ,salaam kutoka Zanzibar zinakutakia kila la kheri Mheshimiwa Mbowe kulifikisha suala hilo Bungeni.Na jikaze kisabuni katika kutaka kulivalia njuga maana kama Hamad hakukutosha basi utapata watakaokutosheleza na uhakika wa kutolizungumzia tena ndipo utakapokufikia wakati huo.Mbowe usifikiri unatishwa ,hapana ,furaha yao Wazenji suala hilo ukilifikisha huko.


    Huyu Mbowe anaonekana hana uwezo na kufikiri kwake ni finyu na uwono wake ni mdogo na usomi wake ni wa papo kwa papo,hajui kuwa zanzibar ina baraza la kutunga sheria ? Hajui kuwa zanzibar kuna rais na mawaziri wake,pia ina mahakama kuu ? Hajui yakuwa zanzibar ni nchi inakatiba yake na ndio ilizaa tunda ambalo linaitwa Tanzania ?


    Hivi hawa waTanganyika hawajui yakuwa katiba ya Tanzania ndio siku zote inayovunja katiba za nchi mbili ambazo ndio zimesababisha kuundwa katiba hiyo ya Tanzania ? Katiba ya Tanzania ilikuwa na mambo 10 tu ambayo tuliokubaliana nayo,lakini sasa kuna zaidi ya 40,hamuoni yakuwa mumevunja katiba ya zanzibar kwa sababu mulipo jaza viraka katika katiba hiyo hamukuishauri zanzibarkwa maana hayakuridhiwa na baraza la wawakilishi la Nchi ya Zanzibar ?
    Ila mheshimiwa Mbowe usije ukaingia katika mtego huo kama unatumiwa sawa endelea.
     
  2. Gurudumu

    Gurudumu JF-Expert Member

    #2
    Nov 30, 2010
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    Sasa kati yako na mbowe nani wa kufundisha mwenzake kufikiri?
     
  3. e

    emrema JF-Expert Member

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    Nov 30, 2010
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    Bila kudai katiba mpya Zanzibar itabaki koloni la bara milele. Mtadanganywa na pipi ya serikali ya ZNZ na mkadhani mpo huru NEVER. Zanzibar ipo chini ya bara. So wazanzibari muungeni mkono Mbowe kwa manufaa yenu pia.
     
  4. G

    Gad ONEYA JF-Expert Member

    #4
    Nov 30, 2010
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    tatizo ni waafrica wote, akili zetu zina walakini! Swala la umeme ni shida kote africa! Nigeria, Tz, S.Africa baada apartheid, Kenya, Uganda,etc. Tutafakari na tujioji kwa nini hivi???
     
  5. M

    MWANALUGALI JF-Expert Member

    #5
    Nov 30, 2010
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    Mimi nawalaumu Watanganyika kwa kuwaendekeza hawa Wazenj, hawana lolote hawa hata nyanya wananunua bara!! Sijui hata cha kuwasifia mie, labda hilo la kuwa uzao wa watumwa baado unaathiri kufikiria kwao!!
     
  6. jyfranca

    jyfranca JF-Expert Member

    #6
    Nov 30, 2010
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    zanzibar haina hata hadhi ya mkoa igawanye sehemu mbili Pemba iwe wilaya ya Tanga, na Unguja wilaya ya Pwani
     
  7. Edward Teller

    Edward Teller JF-Expert Member

    #7
    Nov 30, 2010
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    Zanzibar kama haitakuwa mkoa-basi ni bora tanganyika tuaaki wenyewe-sioni sababu ya kuwang'ang'ania wanzanziabar
     
  8. MrFroasty

    MrFroasty JF-Expert Member

    #8
    Nov 30, 2010
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    Wala nasi wazanzibari hatuna sababu ya kuwang'ang'ania watanganyika....we are far better off this damn poor Tanzania holy crap!....Dont blame us, blame grand fater Mwalimu for all the efforts he made trying to swallow a neighboring country i.e Zanzibar.

    It was clear since the day I was born, that Zanzibar has no interests of being merged into any kind of union.But who was smarter than Nyerere ???....Guess who ?....Western or precisely US!

    Sometime I wonder, was Nyerere really smart to allow himself being used and let his people suffer after he died ?
     
  9. C

    CHE GUEVARA2 Member

    #9
    Dec 1, 2010
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    You mwangaluka... Umesahau kama Zanzibar ndio iliokuwa Dubai yenu mnakuja kufanya Shopping hadi late 90s...kumbuka kuwa Zanzibar ilikuwa inatoa msaada kwa watanganyika pale walipokuwa na kiti chao ndani ya United Nation baada ya kupata uhuru wake December 1963
     
  10. zomba

    zomba JF-Expert Member

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    Dec 1, 2010
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    Kuna watu huingia humu wakapayuka tu. Hawajui hata historia iliyowafikisha kuitwa Tanzania, na pengine hawajui hata hilo jina la Tanzania alilitowa nani.

    Tanzania haiwezi kuitwa Tanzania bila ya kuwa na Muungano unao-zihusisha nchi mbili huru.

    Zanzibar was once far superior kuliko Tanganyika na Tanganyika was under the rule of Zanzibar, hilo nnadhani wengi hawalijuwi.

    Zanzibar was an independent country na iliyojitawala na iliyotawala himaya zingine far far off kabla ya Tanganyika au wa Tanganyika hawajajuwa hata kuvaa nguo. Hili halipingiki kabisa.

    Zanzibar kama nchi, ndio ya kwanza kuwa na mabalozi kutoka nje na ndani ya Afrika kabla ya Tanganyika au wa Tanganyika kujuwa hata maana ya Balozi ni nini, na hata kabla ya kujuwa kuvaa nguo (majority).

    Leo hii, mnataka kuongelea kuhusu Zanzibar kuwa mkoa? Ama kweli, waswahili walinena, "mtumwa hasadifiki".
     
  11. f

    fisi 2 JF-Expert Member

    #11
    Dec 1, 2010
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    Historia na tamaduni hazisaidii kutoa hali halisi ya Zanzibar wether ilikuwa superior or what haina maana kwa sasa. Cha muhimu ni kuipa Zanzibar hadhi yake na hili litafanywa kwanza na watanzania wote kwa makubaliano na hasa kimsingi na utashi wa Wazanzibari. Nyerere alikuwa na akili ya kulipiza kisasi kwa wazanzibari kuwa WATUMWA wa Tanganyika huo ndio ukweli. Muungano ule wa haraka haraka ulikuwa kwa manufaa ya Tanganyika na western countries SIO kwa Zanzibar. Wazanzibari mmebaki kufuata upepo tu wa Tanganyika bila kutumia busara zenu.Hamad Rashid angekuwa mkweli angeelekea kuwatoa Wazanzibari kwenye UTUMWA wa wabara (CCM) sio kushangilia ruzuku watakayo tafuna toka serikali ya mseto. ZANZIBAR NDANI YA CCM ITABAKI KOLONI NA MTUMWA WA BARA kama ilivyoendelea kuwa kwa miaka 46 sasa.
     
  12. F

    Fadhy Member

    #12
    Dec 1, 2010
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    madhara ya kujadili mambo kwa hisia ni kukosa uhalisia....sote watanganyika na wazanzibari tunapaswa kuketi chini na kuzungumzia tofauti zetu na kutazama namna bora ya kuziondoa...malumbano haya hayawezi kutufikisha popote zaudu ya kuipanda mbegu ya chuki baina yetu wenyewe ambayo madhara yake sote twayafahamu....
     
  13. Waberoya

    Waberoya JF-Expert Member

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    Dec 1, 2010
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    chadema taratibu mnaanza kuamini maneno yangu! ulikuwa mtego mkubwa sana nyie kukataa CUF!

    Haya!

    1. Chadema zanzibar ndiyo isahau existence yake
    2. CCM will use this as weapon kuwa mnataka kuvunja muungano
    3. Guess what?? issue ya Slaa na ukatoliki na nyie kukataa cuf vinaendana kabisa, this we call political paradox where people may totall digress what you meant!!! are you there?? we are counting days, maana kupata viti vingi kumewapa kiburi na kumetupa mbali kabisa busara!!!
     
  14. Bams

    Bams JF-Expert Member

    #14
    Dec 1, 2010
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    Tuliungana na Zanzibar mwaka 1964 kwa malengo tofauti na yale ya sasa. Wakati ule chini ya msimamizi wa mpango mzima Mmarekani Kisinger, Mwl Nyerere alishauriwa kuichukua Zanzibar ili kuondoa hatari ya Zanzibar kuchukuliwa na Mataifa ya Kijamaa. Wakati huo Tanganyika, Kenya na Uganda zikiwa wafuasi wakubwa wa siasa za kibepari. Jaribio la kwanza kuhakikisha Zanzibar haikai pekee yake ilikuwa ni kumtaka Jomo Kenyata aichukue Zanzibar lakini Mzee Jomo Kenyatta alikataa kwa kusema, 'haitaki Zanzibar kwa kuwa watu wake ni goi goi'. Mwalimu Nyerere alisita sana kupokea ombi la Wamarekani, na alifikiria angewezaje kwenda kwenye Taifa jingine na kuwaambia kuwa kuanzia leo mtakuwa sehemu ya Tanganyika, ndipo tena Kisinger alipomshauri kuwa njia iliyo rahisi ni kuwaambia Wazanzibari kuwa mnaungana. Hata hivyo Mwalimu alikuwa na shaka juu ya Wazanzibari kuukubali mwungano uliopendekezwa na Marekani. Ndipo Kisinger alipokwenda Zanzibar kukutana na Mzee Karume, na kumshauri kuwa uhuru wa Zanzibar hautadumu kwa kuwa Sultan aliyepinduliwa anafanya mipango ya kijeshi kuweza kuchukua mamlaka tena kutawala Zanzibar, njia pekee ya kulinda uhuru wa Zanzibar ni kuungana na Tanganyika ambayo ina jeshi imara kuliko Zanzibar. Karume alikuwa na wasiwasi kama Mwalimu Nyerere angekubali kuungana na Zanzibar. Kisinger tena akajifanya kuwa wakala wa Zanzibar ili kumshauri Mwalimu Nyerere akubali kuungana na Zanzibar. Akarudi kwa Mwalimu na kumwambia amekamilisha kila kitu waendelee na mazungumzo mengine. Na ndiyo maana hata mwungano wenyewe ulifanyika kwa hali ya dharura kwa hofu ya Zanzibar kuchukuliwa na Sultan.

    Baadaye kama mnavyojua, Tanzania (Tanganyika baada ya kufanikiwa kuichukua Zanzibar) ilikuja kuegemea siasa za kijamaa baada ya sera za nje za Marekani kubadilika. Hapo hata ile sababu ya 'mwungano' wa Zanzibar na Tanganyika ikawa haina maana tena, na manung'uniko ya mwungano yakaanza. Lakini kwa siku za karibuni mataifa mengi ya Afrika na Amerika na Ulaya yanaishinikiza sana Tanganyika kuhakikisha haiiachii Zanzibar kutokana na masuala ya kiusalama, wasi wasi uliopo ni Zanzibar kuwa kama Somalia. Hilo likitokea Afrika Mashariki na nchi za kusini mwa Afrika, usalama wao na wa Dunia nzima utakuwa mashakani. Kwaajili ya hofu ya Zanzibar kuparanganyika ikiachwa pekee yake, na magaidi wakapata mahali pa kujihifadhi, Tanganyika, mataifa jirani na mataifa makubwa yote hayatairuhusu Zanzibar itoke kwenye mwungano kwa gharama yoyote ile. Zanzibar inaweza kufanya chochote cha kuutikisa mwungano lakini Dunia haitaruhusu ijitenge na Tanganyika.

    Wengine hawapendi kusikia haya laini ndiyo ukweli.
     
  15. J

    Jembe_Ulaya Senior Member

    #15
    Dec 1, 2010
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    Mwiba, CHADEMA wanachotaka ni mabadiliko ya katiba ya Muungano ili yawiane na yale ya Zanzibar. Means kuna contradictions, Katiba ya muungano inapingana na ile ya Zanzibar. Sasa hapo tatizo lipo wapi??. Je, kufanyia mabadiliko ya katiba ya Muungano ni kuikandamiza Zanzibar??. Nadhani ni wakati sasa wa kuacha kuleana tukiogopa eti wenzetu wanaonewa. Kama muungano umeshindikana basi iwekwe wazi, mimi nadhani marekebisho ya katiba ni muhimu kwa faida ya pande zote mbili za muungano.
     
  16. Bams

    Bams JF-Expert Member

    #16
    Dec 1, 2010
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    Wazanzibari hawastahili kumchukia Mbowe au CHADEMA, wakiwa makini wanastahili kumwunga mkono ili mwungano uweze kutazamwa kwa upana zaidi. Si Wazanzibari wala Watanganyika walioomba kuungana, ulifanyika kwa matakwa ya Wamarekani. Japo tuliungana, tunaweza kusema kwa bahati tu, lakini tunaweza kuchukulia kuwa hiyo ni 'opportunity that came in a favour of both Zanzibar and Tanganyika'. Cha muhimu sasa ni kukaa na kukubaliana mwungano huu uwe wa namna gani lakini kama nilivyosema hapo awali option ya kutengana haipo kwa sababu Dunia ina mashaka na usalama wake kama Zanzibar itakuwa dola huru inayojitegemea. Na kwa upande mwingine Marekani ni lazima iendelee kusaidia gharama za kutunza mwungano kama walivyoahidi wakati huo.
     
  17. D

    DENYO JF-Expert Member

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    Wasomi wanaongezeka historia inazidi kuwa wazi ujasiri wa kuhoji unaongezeka, viongozi wa kweli wanajitokeza kwa maslahi ya taifa. Ni vema na ni sahihi mh. Mbowe kutoa rai ya kuundwa upya katiba ya tanzania, ni kilio cha siku nyingi anaebisha akamuulize prof issa shivji. Prof anasema katiba ya sasa imepitwa na wakati na italeta machafuko -kwanini tusubiri watu wafe ndio katiba ilekebishwe? Kwa kipengele cha kutohoji tume ya uchaguzi sehemu yoyote, tume ambayo inateuliwa na rais aliyeko madarakani, na kwa kipengele cha rais kuteua majaji, mwaziri, makatibu, bila chombo kingine kuhoji ni wazi kwamba katiba ya sasa haifai hata kuongoza ng'ombe manake hata ng'ombe watagoma sembuse binadamu mwenye akili timamu?
     
  18. STEIN

    STEIN JF-Expert Member

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    Acha mambo ya umimi hapa alichokisema Mbowe kwenye mdahalo kina umuhimu sana sio unakurupuka, kinachotakiwa ni kubadilisha Katiba ya TZ kwani inapingana naya Zanzibar.

    Wewe ni mchoyo kwanza mtu una post 3,539, thanks 8 tu unamaana gani kama si umimi tu.

    Jifunze na ujirekebishe hapa hatuongelei propaganda, ni ukweli kwa waelewa.
     
  19. Diehard

    Diehard JF-Expert Member

    #19
    Dec 1, 2010
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    Kweli zanzibar nchi isiyo tambuliwa na FIFA
    Dada wewe hivi una msuli weye maana inaonyesha kama bunge la muungano halina wabunge wa znz nenda uza urojo maana unataka peleka mambo halijojo mzanzibarti wewe.........Katiba ya Tanzania ilikuwa na mambo 10 tu ambayo tuliokubaliana nayo,lakini sasa kuna zaidi ya 40,hamuoni yakuwa mumevunja katiba ya zanzibar kwa sababu mulipo jaza viraka katika katiba hiyo hamukuishauri zanzibarkwa maana hayakuridhiwa na baraza la wawakilishi la Nchi ya Zanzibar ?
     
  20. STEIN

    STEIN JF-Expert Member

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    Kuwa mkeli hivi unaweza kuwa rais wa Tanzani kwa kuitegemea Zanzibar, na wewe umeanza kupungukiwa uwezo wa kufikiri sasa maana unajua idadi ya watu Zenji haifiki hata mkoa mmoja bara sasa kwa nini tupoteze muda.

    Peoples Power
     
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