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Mazungumzo ya Kikwete,Bush yakera Wakenya

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Spiderman, Sep 21, 2006.

  1. S

    Spiderman JF Admin

    #1
    Sep 21, 2006
    Joined: Jan 1, 1970
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    Na Mwandishi Wetu

    MAZUNGUMZO ya Rais Jakaya Kikwete na Rais George W. Bush wa Marekani, yamezua mtafaruku nchini Kenya, hasa baada ya kubainika kuwa moja ya ajenda katika mazungumzo hayo, ilikuwa ni kuyumba yumba kwa hali ya kisiasa nchini humo.

    Magazeti ya Kenya yamewakariri maafisa wa serikali ya nchi hiyo, wakilaumu vikali hatua ya Rais George Bush kuzungumzia hali ya kisiasa Kenya bila kuwahusisha viongozi wa serikali waliopo New York waliohudhuria mkutano wa Baraza Kuu la Umoja wa Mataifa.

    Ujumbe wa Kenya katika mkutano huo unaongozwa na waziri wake wa mambo ya Nje, Raphael Tuju, ambaye anatarajia kulihutubia Baraza la Umoja wa Mataifa Septemba 27.
    Habari za kuwapo kwa ajenda hiyo katika mazungumzo ya Rais Kikwete na Rais Bush zilitolewa na Mkurugenzi wa Masuala ya Afrika katika Wizara ya Mambo ya Nje ya Marekani, Dk Cindy Courville.

    Rais Kikwete ni kiongozi pekee aliyepewa nafasi ya kuonana na Rais Bush kutoka nchi za kusini mwa Jangwa la Sahara na alifanya mazungumzo hayo katika hoteli maarufu ya Waldorf Astoria jijini New York Jumanne wiki hii.
    Jana magazeti Kenya yalimkariri Naibu Waziri wa Mambo ya Nje wa Kenya, Moses Wetang'ula, akilaumu uamuzi wa Bush kuzungumzia suala hilo, huku akiwaacha viongozi wa serikali ya Kenya ambao pia wapo New York kuhudhuria mkutano huo.

    "Tutatuma ujumbe wa kidiplomasia kupinga kwa nguvu zetu zote tabia hii ya ajabu na dharau dhidi ya watu wa Kenya. Hapa kwetu hakuna mzozo wa kisiasa. Tunataka tupate ufafanuzi kama kweli jambo hili lilijadiliwa na marais hawa au kauli hiyo ilitolewa kwa bahati mbaya," alisema Wetang'ula, alipozungumza na gazeti la Daily Nation la jana.

    Wetang'ula alisisitiza kuwa Kenya ni moja ya nchi za kupigiwa mfano barani Afrika kutokana na utulivu wa kisiasa uliopo na kwamba kamwe nchi yake haijawahi kufikia kiwango hicho kilichochoea mazungumzo kati ya Rais Kikwete na Rais Bush.
    Alisema kinachotokea sasa ni kwamba nchi yake inajiandaa kwa ajili ya uchaguzi mwakani na kwamba kinachotokea hakiwezi kutajwa kuwa ni hali mbaya ya kisiasa nchini humo.

    "Hakuna mgogoro wala mzozo wowote wa kisiasa hapa. Tunaamini kuwa Rais Mwai Kibaki, kwa kutumia nafasi yake katika Jumuiya ya Afrika Mashariki, atalizungumzia suala hili atakapokutana na Rais Kikwete," alisema.

    Mbali na kuandika habari hiyo, gazeti la Daily Nation pia liliandika tahariri kulaani mazungumzo hayo, likisema wananchi wa Kenya wamebebeshwa mizigo mizito kutokana na uhusiano wa serikali yao na ile ya Marekani.
    Tahariri hiyo ilisema uamuzi wa viongozi hao wawili kuzungumzia hali ya kisiasa Kenya ni dalili ya kuonyesha dharau za wazi kwa nchi hiyo, hasa ikizingatiwa kuwa ujumbe wa serikali ya Kenya ulikuwapo New York, lakini haukuitwa na Bush katika mazungumzo hayo.

    Tahariri hiyo inamtaja Rais Bush kama kiongozi wa ajabu kwa kuwa hivi karibuni, alipokea hati za utambulisho kutoka kwa Balozi wa Kenya nchini Marekani na katika hafla hiyo, akaisifia Kenya kuwa ni moja ya nchi yenye utulivu mkubwa wa kisiasa barani Afrika.

    Imesema habari hizo za uongo zinazotolewa dhidi ya Kenya ndizo zinazoifanya serikali ya Marekani iwe inatoa maonyo ya kila mara kwa watalii wa Kimarekani wanaofika Kenya na Afrika Mashariki na hivyo kuzorotesha juhudi za kuinua uchumi wa nchi.

    "Nchi yetu imepata madhara makubwa kutokana na magaidi kuiona kuwa rafiki wa karibu wa Marekani na mamia ya watu wetu wamekufa kutokana na hali hiyo. Lakini kila tunachokisikia kila siku ni kwamba utawala wa nchi yetu umejaa ufisadi au upumbavu au vyote viwili. Ukiwa na marafiki wa aina hii unahitaji kuwa na maadui kweli?" inasema sehemu ya tahariri hiyo.

    Kwa mujibu wa Dk Courville, Kikwete na Bush pia walizungumzia hali ya kisiasa katika nchi za Burundi na Jamhuri ya Kidemokrasi ya Kongo pamoja na uhusiano wa kisiasa na kiuchumi kati ya nchi hizo mbili. Hii ilikuwa ni mara ya kwanza kwa Rais Kikwete kufanya mazungumzo na kiongozi huyo wa taifa kubwa duniani tangu aliposhika madaraka Desemba 21 mwaka jana.

    Kutoka Mwananchi
     
  2. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #2
    Sep 21, 2006
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    Tanzania inaanza kuipiku Kenya kwenye anga za siasa za Kimataifa?
     
  3. m

    mTz JF-Expert Member

    #3
    Sep 21, 2006
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    Inawezekana, unajua mapenzi ya US kwa wakenya ilikuwa ni strategic wakati wa cold war, kwa sasa ni kama wamekuwa "irrelevant". In addition, Bongo ni kama honey pot (abundance of natural resources and peaceful/"docile" population. So US would like to have its finger in this honey pot
     
  4. M

    Mkira JF-Expert Member

    #4
    Sep 21, 2006
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    wakenya wanaona wivu!

    Kila kiongozi wa africa nataka kuongea na Bush!! Bush ana kazi kubwa hawezi kuongea na viongozi wote. Sasa wakenya wanalalamikia nini kama Bush ameonga na JK kuhusu kenya. Hiyo ni sawa kwa kuwa tuna the so called East Africa. Sioni ubaya chini ya kivuli cha EAC.

    Ila viongozi wa afrika kumbukeni mmechanguliwa na wanachi weni=u ili muwatumikie na siyo kupiga magoti kwa Bush. Mnaweza kukabidhi kila kitu! Mkabaki weupe. Ngoja marekani imalize vita vya ughaidi ikutulia itazikamua nchi za Africa ili kurekebisha uchumi wake!

    Nchi ya Tanzania na uchumi wake utajengwa na watanzania wenyewe na siyo Marekani au Makaburu wa SA!
     
  5. Augustine Moshi

    Augustine Moshi JF-Expert Member

    #5
    Sep 22, 2006
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    The main point is that Tanzania is currently a member of the UN Security Council, and Bush wants Tanzania's vote when that body sits to consider imposing sanctions on Iran. That was the whole reason for the favour.

    Baada ya uanachama wetu Security Council kwisha, Rais wa Marekani akija Afrika atafika Kenya lakini sio Tanzania. Hivyo ndivyo wanavyofanya viongozi wakuu wa dunia siku hizi.

    Augustine Moshi
     
  6. M

    Mugishagwe JF-Expert Member

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    Sep 22, 2006
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    Maneno yako Mkira na Mushi yana uzito mkubwa mno lazima watu waamke .Ila pia kumbukeni BM alikabidhi na Utajiri wetu kwa SA na baadhi ya wazungu huyu JK anaweza kuishia kuwapa wa US Nchi maana ukiangalia kwa ndani madini na mikataba ya ajabu Msabaha kaanza nayo JK akiwa huko huko US . Isije ikawa kama Zimbabwe baadaye .

    Mimi sioni haja ya kujadili issues za Kenya hapa tuna mambo mengi ya kuongelea kuhusu Tanzania yetu .Mimi hili naliacha .
     
  7. Field Marshall ES

    Field Marshall ES JF-Expert Member

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    Sep 23, 2006
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    Africa, watumwa masikini wa Mungu wa IMF na World Bank, kweli sasa tunapigania kukutana na Slave master Mzee Bush,

    ni kitu gani cha gain kwa rais wetu kukutana na Bush mpaka mtumwa mwingine kuona wivu? Hivi ni lini sisi watu tutaamuka na kuanza ku-deal na real issues, badala ya kulilia kukutana na Bush?

    Hawa Wa-Kenya nao they need to grow up and be real!
     
  8. Augustine Moshi

    Augustine Moshi JF-Expert Member

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    Sep 23, 2006
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    Kenya hawakukasirishwa kwa JK kukutana na Bush. Wamekerwa na kitendo cha Rais wa Tanzania na Rais wa Marekani kujadili hali ya siasa ya Kenya. Wana haki ya kukasirika. Kama Bush alitaka kujadili hali ya siasa ya Kenya basi angejadili na viongozi wa Kenya, kwani walikuwepo NY.

    Ni "njama" kwa Tanzania kukutana na Marekani kuijadili Kenya. Inafanya waonekana kama wanataka kupindua serikali ya Kenya.

    Augustine Moshi
     
  9. Rufiji

    Rufiji JF-Expert Member

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    Sep 23, 2006
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    Kwa nini kila siku hawa watu wanalalamika , hakuna sehemu ambapo wamesema walidiscuss kenya walichosema ni kuwa Bush was concerned with political instability in Kenya kuna tofauti kati ya kuwa concerned na kuijadili Kenya.

    Na kwa nini kwenye hiyo article wamekimbilia kwenye EAC , mimi nimechoka kabisa tabia ya kutaka kutumia EAC kama chombo cha kutishia nchi nyingine !
     
  10. O

    Ogah JF-Expert Member

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    Sep 23, 2006
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    Labda tupate habari in detail JK na Bush walizungumza nini kuhusu Kenya ( kama kweli walijadili).
    OTHERWISE NI WIVU WA KISIASA.
     
  11. M

    Mkuyuga Member

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    Sep 23, 2006
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    SADC ni muhimu kwetu kuliko EAC,

    EAC itakuwa muhimu kama Uganda watabadilika.! Ninashangaa kusikia wanyarwanda nao wanakaribisha!

    EAC haina future. Mseveni yupo tu anawania kuwa rais wa EAC!

    Wakenya ni ndugu zete sasa leo mtu mmoja kwa mawazo yake anaanza tu kuwavuruga wakenya wenzake!

    Mmeisha ambiwa kuwa Tanzania ni member wa Baraza la usalama la UN. Ila kama Bush alimuliza JK kuhusu kenya je JK alisema nini?

    Mtu mmoja sijui balzo wa Kenya anaweza kupandikiza chuki za uongo tu!
     
  12. Lunyungu

    Lunyungu JF-Expert Member

    #12
    Sep 23, 2006
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    September 23, 2006
    Posted to the web September 22, 2006

    Nation Correspondent
    Nairobi

    Muslim leaders have urged the Government to cut off diplomatic ties with the US until it explains why President Bush discussed Kenya's political stability with the President of a neighbouring country.

    They also demanded that Tanzania's foreign affairs ministry give a detailed report on the meeting at which President Jakaya Kikwete allegedly discussed Kenya's affairs, contrary to tenets of the East African Community (EAC).

    The Council of Imams and Preachers of Kenya (CIPK) said yesterday in Mombasa that President Bush's comments were an attempt to scuttle EAC relations and create animosity among its leaders.

    The council's secretary-general Sheikh Mohammed Dor said for many years Kenyans "were known to be initiators of peace and political stability in the Great Lakes region".

    Kenya had brought peace to southern Sudan, Somalia, Sierra Leone and Bosnia among other countries, said the imams.

    "It is ironic for Mr Bush to suggest that Kenya is politically unstable when America has been known to cause chaos in countries it invades," said Sheikh Dor.

    The imams said Kenyan leaders deserved respect from foreign leaders, irrespective of the way they run their internal affairs.
     
  13. J

    JokaKuu Platinum Member

    #13
    Sep 24, 2006
    Joined: Jul 31, 2006
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    Barack Obama hakutoa taarifa nzuri baada ya ziara yake Kenya. vilevile Obama na Balozi wa Kenya Marekani wamekuwa wakijibishana katika magazeti ya Marekani. Hiyo imeleta picha mbaya kwa serikali ya Kenya.

    Kuna habari za kusikitisha sana za jinsi Museveni na serikali yake walivyowaswaga na kuwaweka katika makambi wananchi wa Uganda kaskazini. wachunguzi wa mambo wanadai kuna ukiukwaji mkubwa wa haki za binadamu, ikiwemo mauaji na mateso, yaliyofanywa na Museveni dhidi ya wananchi wa Uganda kaskazini.

    Uganda inatisha, mikono ya Museveni imetapakaa damu. Kitu cha ajabu ni kwamba nchi za magharibi zimemkumbatia huyu bwana, na Tanzania tunamuita ndugu yetu.
     
  14. M

    Mkira JF-Expert Member

    #14
    Sep 24, 2006
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    JOKA KUU UMESEMA KWELI KABISA,
    HUYU Mseveni anajifanya kuwajua sana watanzania!! HE KNOWS HOW TO PLAY AROUND WITH THEM OR HOW TO TRICK THEM!

    HASA MKAPA ALIWEKWA SANA MFUKONI NA MSEVENI. ALIPOVURUGA AMANI DRC NKAPA ALIKAA KAPA!


    Mwl alipokufa nilisikia Mseveni akisema He will pick up from from Nyerere?


    JE NI KWELI KUWA MSEVENI PICKED UP FROM NYERERE? AU NI MHUNI, MUUAJI ETC TU.

    HAWA NI WALE JASUSI ALIOSEMA KUWA NI AKINA YUDA ISCARIOT ETC.



    KWA (WAZALENDO ORIGINAL NA KWA WALE WALIO WEPESI WA KUSAHAU)MNAWEZA KUSOMA HAPA!


    SOURCE NI THE MONITOR NINADHANI NI GAZETI LA

    TAREHE Sat, 23 Oct 1999 12:11:34 +0200



    I'll pick up from Nyerere--Museveni

    President Yoweri Museveni believes that the late former Tanzanian
    president, Mwalimu Julius Nyerere who died last week in a London
    hospital had a brilliant vision for Africa. A reporter with the
    Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, Murray Oliver, now in Uganda,
    went to State Lounge, Nakasero and asked Museveni to comment on
    the fallen leader's strong points and his shortcomings.

    Museveni said, Nyerere's dream for Africa will be carried on by
    leaders like him committed to the African people. Museveni echoed
    his broad programme for Uganda and how the country needs to be
    turned around before opening to multi-party politics.

    Why is Mwalimu Julius Nyerere so venerated in Africa?

    Museveni: He made a lot of contributions to the liberation of
    Africa.

    Unlike the other leaders, he stood out firmly and said "if you
    don't give them independence we shall support the African people
    in those territories; in the Portuguese territories, in Rhodesia
    (Zimbabwe), in South Africa to fight for their freedom."

    That was the most important contribution by Nyerere.

    The other African leaders were intimidated and beholden to the
    former colonial powers and they would not dare take sides with the
    freedom fighters in these minority ruled countries.

    Secondly, although Nyerere differed with the West, he was also not
    demagogic in approach. He would work with the West where they
    could reach a consensus, and differ with them where they could not
    agree.

    He was able to maintain some balanced relationship, with Western
    countries, although he did not agree with them.

    Nyerere helped us against Idi Amin.

    Mwalimu contributed to the liberation of 100 million Africans in
    the last 30 years.

    If you count Mozambique, Angola, South Africa, Zimbabwe, Uganda,
    Namibia, the figure comes to about 100 million black people
    liberated by the efforts of people like Mwalimu supporting
    internal forces in those countries.

    Why was Nyerere the man so inspiring?

    Within Tanzania he was against tribalism. He supported the use of
    Swahili as a lingua franca, so much so that in Tanzania now you
    can communicate from north to south in one language.

    He was against corruption, he was not corrupt himself.

    He built Tanzanians a good foundation of unity, of discipline,
    there was no serious violation of human rights in Tanzania.

    There were NEVER extra-judicial killings like there were in many
    African countries. Therefore you don't find any serious number of
    Tanzanians living in exile.

    Nyerere promoted free education.

    Give me a portrait of Nyerere, the man.

    Mwalimu, was one of the ardent intellectuals. He took higher
    education here in Uganda, then in Scotland.

    Some of the mistakes committed by many African leaders was because
    they did not have enough training. Idi Amin spent only two years
    in school.

    And here you had Nyerere with a high level of education. He was
    brilliant, he was a writer, he was an avid reader of materials.
    And he was upright.

    He was something of an inspiration.

    Why was he so dedicated to Pan-Africanism?

    At one time, Nyerere said Tanganyika won't be free until the whole
    of Africa is free. Pan-Africanism is after viability. We must have
    viable units. Units which are not viable will not solve the
    problems of the people.

    In Africa there is political fragmentation. So the resources are
    fragmented, the markets are fragmented, that's one of the reasons
    why Africa is still backward.

    Some say the West should write-off Africa as a failure.

    What is the future of Mwalimu's dream of trying to unite the
    continent, when so many are pessimistic?

    The fact that he had been able to help some of his younger
    comrades like me, shows that he is a visionary. And we have also
    trained others. The relay will continue.

    People in the West claim with Mwalimu gone, Africa can be written
    off -- the last light has gone."

    That's not serious talk, it's only Africans who can write it off.

    We shall overcome our differences.

    Uganda it's not exactly a wild park! Things are happening, we are
    feeding ourselves, we are building our country, we are educating
    our people. We've got our problems, but we shall address them.

    Mwalimu tried to find a unique way of African economies.

    What is the future of the African way of living?

    Yes, there must be a unique way of Africans. There must be a way.
    May be the aspects which Mwalimu Nyerere emphasised were not the
    ones that should have been emphasised.

    But still the idea that Africa must have it's own way is still
    valid. An industrial society must be organised differently from
    the pre-industrial society.

    Although Ujamaa scheme had some problems that doesn't mean that we
    must be black Europeans. No.

    Is African socialism a finished concept?

    I would not want to call it a finished concept because even
    European capitalism is not a concluded affair. There are always
    crises in capitalism and adjustments. So even in African socialism
    there is adjustment.

    Nyerere spanned an era of independence, then much turbulence and
    suffering. He has passed away at the end of a great life of
    turbulence. Give me some idea of what's next for Africa.

    Next is transformation. Remember human beings evolved in Africa
    four and a half million years ago. You Europeans, you are all
    Africans who left here much earlier, and lost your pigmentation.
    Other people went to China.

    So the human race has been struggling in a common struggle.

    The main struggle is against two problems: against nature
    --floods, epidemics.

    Even in Canada you have not solved those problems, I see floods
    coming and destroying property. So the human being has always been
    struggling against nature.

    Because Africans have not been active in the leadership in the
    last 700 years does not mean that they will not be in the future,
    and that will remain in the same slumber. They are waking up.

    To transform human resources, our people need to be educated to
    modernise infrastructure. These are the challenges.

    What ideas of Nyerere will live on this continent?

    Liberation. Integration. Those are eternal aspirations of the
    African people.

    Prof. Dani Wadada Nabudere says the new crop of Africa's leaders
    are just functionaries of the World Bank.

    Nabudere is always extreme. We've got our programme. The World
    Bank has got its programmes, some of which coincide with ours.

    If somebody says control inflation, this is in your own interest.
    If somebody says, live within your means, this is good advice.

    I don't agree with Nabudere.

    It is true that the World Bank tries to force its views on people,
    but that does not mean they do not have some right points.

    Africa is more dependent now than before because of dependence on
    aid. So what's happened to Nyerere's dream of independence?

    Mwalimu Nyerere's idea of independence needs to be refined. In
    order to be independent you should attract primary investment.

    When somebody invests in my country, he's helping me to be
    independent. Because he's employing my people. He's buying my raw
    materials, so he's giving money to my farming sector; he's paying
    taxes, so he is making my budget independent.

    So where I don't agree with the Nabudreres is that in order to be
    independent you must work with the private sector, not with the
    parastatals.

    That was one of the oversights of the people of Mwalimu's
    generation: recognising the importance of private capital or
    private enterprise.

    How did you and Nyerere get on so well even though you didn't
    always agree?

    Because I'm able to distinguish between the essential points and
    the peripheral points.

    African independence -- the end of colonialism -- is an eternal
    contribution by Nyerere. An eternally important contribution.

    Time came when Nyerere gave his nod to multi-partyism in Tanzania.
    What message should Ugandans take from that?

    The difference is that Tanzanians had time to achieve a degree of
    integration. Through a common language, through a common
    mentality. Which is not the same thing here. Because we lost a lot
    of time. So that's why I think we need more time to achieve some
    degree of cohesion.
    ............................................................INAENDELEA
     
  15. M

    Mkira JF-Expert Member

    #15
    Sep 24, 2006
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    We need time to metamorphose, to change.

    A new generation is growing up who are not party to the old
    politics, and so it's a question of judgement as far as the
    Movement is concerned, to judge the right moment -- "to say, we
    think now there is a critical mass of people who are no longer
    sectarian in thinking and we can now work for ushering in a new
    dispensation of political organisation".

    Nyerere's ideas seem close to your own. Universal Primary
    Education comes at the suggestion of the World Bank, but they are
    Nyerere's ideas, aren't they?

    World Bank is against UPE! Who told you that World Bank told us to
    do UPE? They were against it.

    Yes, it's nothing to do with the World Bank. This is our own
    programme. They have supported it, they had to, but they had
    initial reservations.

    What will be your own legacy?

    Modernise agriculture, industrialise Uganda, educate everybody in
    Uganda, modernise the infrastructure, and integrate at least East
    Africa, or better yet eastern and southern Africa. Either
    politically, or at least economically. Merci beaucoup!
     
  16. Ericus Kimasha

    Ericus Kimasha Verified User

    #16
    Nov 13, 2007
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    US huwa hawabahatishi na wala hawafanyi Jambo kwa pupa. Ewe mtanzania. Samahani Ewe mdanganyika, inua macho, tazama mbele usome alama za nyakati. Unaandaliwa kuwa kituo cha kijeshi cha hao mafedhuri (US). Mkuu wa kaya ya Wadanganyika, kwa sifa ya asili ni lazima awe mdanganyika. Na ndivyo alivyo. Hebu jiulize hii ni ni trip ya ngapi Marekani? Akienda hupewa nini cha kusaidia wadanganyika? Je Marekani inasaidia Danganyika kuliko EU na China? Huko kaenda mara ngapi? Alikwenda kwa mwaliko wa Grumet Fund akauza Serengeti. Natumaini sasa hakuna mdanganyika anaweza bisha maana tayari mambo yako wazi. Anakwenda tena next week kuuza..... sisemi ili nione kama usalama wa taifa wanafuatilia thread hii na kama watamtonya aghaili.
     
  17. Mwanamalundi

    Mwanamalundi JF-Expert Member

    #17
    Nov 13, 2007
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    Wakenya wanatakiwa kufahamu kuwa Bush ndio raisi wa dunia. Anazungumza lolote analopenda kwa raha zake. Ni sawa na viongozi wa mkoa wa tabora kumlaumu kikwete kwanini anaongelea maendeleo ya mkoa wa tabora akiwa na viongozi wa mkoa wa arusha. Kama hilo limewakera, wakenya wanatakiwa kuipiku marekani ili nao wawe na nguvu za kuongelea siasa za afghanistan wanapokuwa katika na majadiliano na viongozi wa ufaransa.
     
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