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Mandela let down blacks says Winnie

Discussion in 'International Forum' started by Mzee2000, Mar 9, 2010.

  1. M

    Mzee2000 JF-Expert Member

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    Johannesburg - Struggle stalwart Winnie Madikizela-Mandela bitterly lashed out at Nelson Mandela in an interview published in the London Evening Standard this week.

    She said South Africa's first democratically elected president, who is also her ex-husband, had become a "corporate foundation" who was being "wheeled out to collect the money".

    Madikizela-Mandela also called Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Tutu a "cretin", in the interview with Nadira Naipaul, who visited her with her husband, the writer VS Naipaul, in Soweto.

    "Mandela let us down," said Madikizela-Mandela.

    'Bad deal for the blacks'

    "He agreed to a bad deal for the blacks. Economically, we are still on the outside.
  2. nguvumali

    nguvumali JF Bronze Member

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    hapo ujue ilivyokua ngumu kwa watu wakawaida na wale wa karibu kumuelewa huyu mzee, ni ngumu kwa Winnie, ngumu kwa kila mmoja, ni ngumu, labda hata mimi nisingefanya hivyo, nisingewasamehe wabaya wangu, nisingeishi nao, ningelipa kisasi,
    Nelson Madiba Madela , hakua Rais wa weusi tu ila alikuwa kwa ajili ya Waafrika kusini wooote, bila kujali rangi.
  3. C

    CottonEyeJoe JF-Expert Member

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    True.... but better the South Africa we see today than the Zimbabwe that unravelling infront of our eyes....
  4. N

    Nanu JF-Expert Member

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    Yes, it is difficult for the normal person through the normal eyes and normal thinking to see the foundation that Mandela has put in place. It is difficult for people to see the changes as they only see what they don't have but they don't take time and think of what they have which they used not to have!!!! if you really think of what you have you should be able to say thank you, I have this..if you count on all you don't have you even utter words cursing your God!!! Mandela has done a lot but as the swahil saying...nabii hathaminiwi nyumbani...ndivyo tunavyoona sasa!!!! But yet we can see he has done a lot. People should think how many years have lived without a lot of things including freedom of walking, partying, expression, attend the school, good hospital, etc, it is a lot of years. But for only few years since 1994 SA has done tremendous changes to its society, people have to know that they are on a journey which only started in 1994!!!!
  5. N-handsome

    N-handsome JF-Expert Member

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    Another Mrema from the other side of human kind
  6. nzalendo

    nzalendo JF-Expert Member

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    hata hii ni fitna
  7. RayB

    RayB JF-Expert Member

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    Hii habari ni ya lini am afraid of discussing old news hapa. Inasema to this week, this week ya mwezi gani na mwaka gani?
  8. N

    Ngekewa JF-Expert Member

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    Mbona yeye alimlet down Mandela hilo halioni?
  9. Bongolander

    Bongolander JF-Expert Member

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    You are right. Alijilet down, na amewalet down wengi vilevile, lakini anajaribu kufanya cheap politics za kumlaumu babu kujipatia umaarufu. Kama yeye alifanya makosa, Mbeki je? Zuma je? au kuna x facrot influence ya anayoongea!!
  10. Chimunguru

    Chimunguru JF-Expert Member

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    Huyu mama Keshafulia, sasa anatafuta attention tu. So yeye anaona ni better yanayotokea Zimbabwe kuliko South Africa? Atambae huko we want peace bana
  11. N

    Nanu JF-Expert Member

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    she still have a lot of dignity in SA. she is among the highly reflected people in SA. having an affair with another man for the 27yrs the man has been in jail isn't an insult at all for most of the tribes in SA.
  12. Tangawizi

    Tangawizi JF-Expert Member

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    Ukinywa sana mkomboti akili zinaanza pungua as time goes on. She thought Mandela could rush into attacking whites!
  13. nguvumali

    nguvumali JF Bronze Member

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    hapana si issue ya UMKOMBOTHI, ila ni kielelezo cha matamanio ya Waafrika kusini wengi mara baada ya kile kilichoitwa uhuru wa weusi ama wa waliowengi kupatikana.
    Winnie amesikika kwasababu ni Winnie, ila mioyo ya Weusi wengi kule kwa madiba inawaza sawa.
    Watu wanataka fursa nyingi zaidi, wanatamani kuishi kama weupe wa Capetown , Jo'b, ama Durban, weusi wanataka kuwa na kiwango sawa cha maisha na weupe kwa muda mfupi .
    kwangu Winnie anawakilisha mawazo ya Wengi kule BONDENI, labda hata wewe ungekuwa kule ungewaza sawa na Winnie, na labda ungekuwa mandela ungefanya tofauti na alivyofanya.
  14. Companero

    Companero Platinum Member

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    Mwacheni mama huyo mama aseme ukweli na ukweli mtupu. Huhitaji kuwa mchumi kujua kuwa wanaofaidi nchi ni weusi/waafrika wabenzi wachache kama kina Malema, Zuma na Vavi na wazungu walio wengi. Waafrika wengi bado wanateseka kwenye vishaki/vibanda kibao japo kuna maviwanja makubwa ya kombe la dunia kama kibonzo hiki cha Zapiro kinavyodhihirisha: http://www.mg.co.za/zapiro/all/2
  15. Companero

    Companero Platinum Member

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    ANC seeks Winnie to 'verify' Mandela remarks

    JOHANNESBURG, SOUTH AFRICA Mar 09 2010 14:06

    28 comments | Post your comment

    Madikizela-Mandela to find out if she really had said Nelson Mandela had let down black people, an official said on Tuesday.

    "She is in the US now and we are in the process of trying to locate her," said African National Congress spokesperson Ishmael Mnisi.

    "We want to ask her if these comments were made by her; if this is exactly what she said."

    Mnisi denied a report that Madikizela-Mandela would be called to explain herself at the party's national executive committee meeting next week.

    Party keen to 'verify' remarks
    "That is not correct. What we said is that we would wait for her to verify if these reports are truly attributed to her," said Mnisi.

    The struggle stalwart apparently lashed out at her ex-husband in an interview published in the London Evening Standard this week.

    She said Mandela had become a "corporate foundation" who was being "wheeled out to collect the money".

    Madikizela-Mandela also called Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Tutu a "cretin", in the interview with Nadira Naipaul, who visited her with her husband, the writer VS Naipaul, in Soweto.

    "Mandela let us down," said Madikizela-Mandela.

    "He agreed to a bad deal for the blacks. Economically, we are still on the outside. The economy is very much 'white'. It has a few token blacks, but so many who gave their life in the struggle have died unrewarded," Madikizela-Mandela, was quoted as saying in the interview published on the Mail Online.

    She said Mandela had no control over the ANC anymore and was being used by the Nelson Mandela Foundation to raise funds.

    "Look what they make him do. The great Mandela. He has no control or say any more. They put that huge statue of him right in the middle of the most affluent 'white' area of Johannesburg. Not here, where we spilled our blood and where it all started.

    "Mandela is now a corporate foundation. He is wheeled out globally to collect the money and he is content doing that. The ANC have effectively sidelined him but they keep him as a figurehead for the sake of appearance."

    Madikizela-Mandela said Mandela was not the only leader who had suffered.

    "This name Mandela is an albatross around the necks of my family. You all must realise that Mandela was not the only man who suffered. There were many others, hundreds who languished in prison and died.

    'Do you think De Klerk released him from the goodness of his heart?'
    "Many unsung and unknown heroes of the struggle, and there were others in the leadership too, like poor Steve Biko, who died of the beatings, horribly all alone.

    "Mandela did go to prison and he went in there as a burning young revolutionary. But look what came out."

    Madikizela-Mandela also criticised her former husband in the interview for accepting the Nobel Peace Prize with former president FW de Klerk.

    "I cannot forgive him for going to receive the Nobel [Peace Prize in 1993] with his jailer De Klerk. Hand in hand they went. Do you think De Klerk released him from the goodness of his heart? He had to. The times dictated it, the world had changed, and our struggle was not a flash in the pan, it was bloody to say the least and we had given rivers of blood.

    "I had kept it alive with every means at my disposal."

    She also lashed out at the Truth and Reconciliation Commission process, criticising Tutu, its chairperson.

    "Look at this Truth and Reconciliation charade. He [Mandela] should never have agreed to it. What good does the truth do? How does it help anyone to know where and how their loved ones were killed or buried? That Bishop Tutu who turned it all into a religious circus came here.

    "He had the cheek to tell me to appear. I told him a few home truths. I told him that he and his other like-minded cretins were only sitting here because of our struggle and me. Because of the things I and people like me had done to get freedom."

    Looking back, she said the movement's actions were badly planned.

    "You know, sometimes I think we had not thought it all out. There was no planning from our side. How could we? We were badly educated and the leadership does not acknowledge that. Maybe we have to go back to the drawing board and see where it all went wrong." - Sapa


    at last!! one that actually sees things as it really happened.
    natachia di meola on March 9, 2010, 3:27 pm

    I am also waiting for Winnie to come back and validate these claims. It was not cool at all to bad mouth honorable Dr Nelson Mandela, while we can not take away the truthfulness of some other facts she mentioned on this interview.
    Nkosinathi Khanyile on March 9, 2010, 3:27 pm

    And here I thought the ANC fought a war for the right to vote, it had nothing to do with political freedom at all, it only had to do with da money... let me see the cash and then we will say whether political freedom is ok too. Nice integrity.
    white trash on March 9, 2010, 3:38 pm

    I think Winnie speaks from the heart and out of concern for her ex-husband.I think she meant no harm,maybe there are things that us as public dont understand that were happenning and are still happenning.I stand to be corrected,but I personally admire her as person in her own right.
    Tshego Pule on March 9, 2010, 3:38 pm

    Ha shame, thought they would'nt look too kindly on Mama's latest bid for attention
    jessica baloyi on March 9, 2010, 3:39 pm

    Winnie and the extreme right wingers who claim that a bloody civil war would have solved their problems are birds of a feather .What does she think would have been left of SA and its economy if it was not for leaders of the caliber of Nelson Mandela ,Oliver Thambo , Walter Sisulu etc.If it was left up to her and her hot heads millions would have died and the entire country would have been completely destroyed and would have become just another African banana republic.
    Steve van Niekerk on March 9, 2010, 3:42 pm

    I read the article. Made me want to puke.
    Soutie Biltong on March 9, 2010, 3:44 pm

    She is the cretin. Her with her tyres and matches and Mandela United thugs and her burning hatred of white people and anyone who didn't giver her money and 'recognition'. She is an old fraud and a liar. Who would want to believe the rubbish she spouts anyway?
    Graham Johnson on March 9, 2010, 3:46 pm

    Steve, next time learn to read articles first before you comment
    Kate mat on March 9, 2010, 3:53 pm

    Winnie would be nothing if she was not married to Mandela. The only reason the Apartheid goverment did not take her outr was because she was married to him. She should watch her mouth.
    Soutie Biltong on March 9, 2010, 4:01 pm

    Yeah, point for point, I ask "and what alternative d'you suggest" This old crow is clearly bitter and twisted, having realised that the dream of being queen for life, was not to be. Ag, shame! She really should drop the 'Mandela' portion of her name now, i mean it's been many a year... but no, without that name, she ain't squat. You theaf and stompie killa! Dismissed...
    touché douché on March 9, 2010, 4:11 pm

    Steve van Niekerk you are hypocrite one time Walter Sisulu, Mandela and Oliver Tambo are terrorist and next time they are leaders of caliber. If they were a leader of caliber which side you were on. Please disown all the Apartheid benefits you had so that you can be heard as a genuine voice I guess you and your pals wont because Mandela let you go with murder and corruption like letting the NATZI's go without the Nuremburg trial.
    Phila Elvis on March 9, 2010, 4:12 pm

    Mandela hasnt let us down, the Africans !
    That guy from the village on March 9, 2010, 4:13 pm

    With respect to Madiba, in this issue Winnie is speaking some truth.

    Granted, Madiba had some tough choices to make in some tough circumstances. But he made some wrong choices: as a consequence of some of his decisions, the effort to move to meaningful reconciliation was hampered.

    For example, his simplistic and uncritical forgiveness of white people augmented a situation in which no popular introspection was required, no social dialogue was engaged in and no real understanding between different peoples was created.

    Those consequences live with us every day in: the anger from black people towards white people; the trauma that many black people still feel from their experience under apartheid; the misunderstanding that happens between many black people and many white people on a daily basis; the refusal of many white people to engage with the role we played in apartheid; the refusal of many white people to acknowledge our benefit from apartheid; the conservatism of many white people with regards to actively reconstructing South Africa, etc, etc, etc, etc...

    Then, of course, there is a ugly reality that he has become the necessary accessory of the rich and famous: the shallow pop-stars, self-important actors, greedy corporates and other high-fliers.
    Segoya Segoya on March 9, 2010, 4:15 pm

    theres more into ANC lets wait and see, is time for the struggle group to pave way for us, hahahahah
    Bongile Bongs on March 9, 2010, 4:18 pm

    @Segoya, as progressive as always.
    Inasmuch as I will forever be grateful Madiba and his collective, I too agree with our mother, Winnie.

    Kitty Kat on March 9, 2010, 4:24 pm

    Why have they failed to create new businesses in the freedom that came with the 1994 elections. Why do they continue to scrap over the exising pie, the economy is very much 'white' etc. Same goes for all the moaning about the white owned press criticising the great ANC, where are the pro-nationalist and pro-socialist newspapers then? How many new publications have there been representing the new age from the 1990s to now?

    Winnie forgets she is a criminal, most horrible crimes she has commmitted as well.
    Points West on March 9, 2010, 4:26 pm

    I ain't know fan of Winnie but honestly, she got it spot on. A lot people whisper in the corridors about what a sh&t deal we got out of that arrangement, somebody just had the guts to say it. well done winnie.
    will mo on March 9, 2010, 4:27 pm

    Steve -

    I don't think Winnie is arguing for a civil war. I think what she is saying is that Madiba made the process of reconciliation too easy. Its not that there should have been no reconciliation, but that it should have happened in a way that addressed the past meaningfully.

    The issues that she has raised are not hers alone. I have heard them numerous times from many poor black people. Consequently, whatever you think about Winnie, her question is an important one to raise. It asks us to pierce through the soft, cushy, dance-into-the-sunset-through-wheat-fields, cotton candy lala-land that most of us privileged people live in, and consider another angle. It asks us to rethink the way that we conceive of our new South Africa.

    That, I think, is important.
    Segoya Segoya on March 9, 2010, 4:37 pm

    I think Winnie, to an extent, has a point. It is wrong for us to raise our leaders to the levels of Saints. Mandela, says this himself, is not a saint, he is human, his tenure as the president was not without mistakes, the outcomes of the negotiation process were not perfect. Now that Winnie has raised (if she really did) what her ex-president has raised himself the media and some of us will give her the "How dare ..." look.
    And if we can put emotions aside, what is it really that the old man did for the poor of this country. People will say, he is a beacon of hope, he is a symbol of non-racialism and reconciliation. He represents just and equal society. But our country is still struggling with racism, people are hopeless and jobless. We are still struggling to find each other. We are the most unequal society in the world.
    And Winnie, mentions something very painful, that her daughters have to pass through the stupid security checks to see their father. We have to be honest, something is wrong here.

    pee kay on March 9, 2010, 4:38 pm

    Anger: a result of percieved personal insult, I can see where Winnie percieves that Nelson insulted her by divorcing her. Hatred is what you have when you wish an entire section of humanity would dissappear. Reconcilliation is not going to take any of these emotions away, it is just supposed to create some room so that the feelings of hatred and anger do not eat you up as only time will heal the wounds. The more you keep opening wounds the longer you wait for it to heal.
    white trash on March 9, 2010, 4:42 pm

    Segoya Segoya you spoke well and I fully agree with you Mandela betrayed Africans in South Africa (and all races under black) however these greedy guys will not genuinely engage with you in a meaning way they fear they will loose their benefits they have acquired through the corruption of Apartheid.
    Phila Elvis on March 9, 2010, 4:50 pm

    Merely a winnie smokescreen to divert attention off the current corruption scandals frontpaging the headlines.
    Sinudeity @gmail.com on March 9, 2010, 4:54 pm

    @Segoya Segoya - "Its not that there should have been no reconciliation, but that it should have happened in a way that addressed the past meaningfully."

    What does that mean? This is something I have been struggling to understand from black commentators on this site for years. What does it take to achieve reconcilliation?

    It appears that the only thing that will suffice in many commentators eyes is a role reversal, which is an act a vengeance, not reconcilliation.
    Craig W on March 9, 2010, 4:55 pm

    The truth can hurt and even be scary for some, understandably so for some in South Africa, but just because you do not like to hear it does not mean that it is not the truth. Winnie is brave for being honest on this subject. I wish her strength to face the sell out ANC and their right wing money partners who want to sabotage the completion of the project to free our society from apartheid and its deeply entrenched legacy.
    Nqaba Nqaba on March 9, 2010, 4:57 pm

    Segoya Segoya

    Mmmm, very interesting! Thanks. More for me to ask/talk to my friends about here.
    Ken O'Connell on March 9, 2010, 4:57 pm

    Hell hath no fury like a Winnie scorned.
    karin morrow on March 9, 2010, 4:58 pm

    Craig -

    Sorry man, I don't have much time today so I will try to elaborate tomorrow. I have lots to say on the subject, so will really try to make sure I get the time. [Of course, it depends on whether the MG leaves this page up or not]
    Segoya Segoya on March 9, 2010, 5:03 pm

    Source: http://www.mg.co.za/article/2010-03-09-anc-seeks-winnie-to-verify-mandela-remarks
  16. Nyani Ngabu

    Nyani Ngabu Platinum Member

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    This validates my mantra!
  17. nguvumali

    nguvumali JF Bronze Member

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    kwa maelezo hayo juu, hivyo ndivyo Waafrika kusini wengi wanavyoamini......walipokua wanaimba UMKOTHO WE SIZWE kwao ilikua na maana ya uhuru, haki, uchumi na neema tele kwa weusi.
  18. m

    mmakonde JF-Expert Member

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    Tatizo la Weusi waafrika wengi huko ni kama African Americans au Jamaicans.Wameathiriwa na mambo ya race.Baada ya 1994,kuna kitu kinachoitwa Black Empowerement,wachache wamekuwa very rich.Tunachoona Tanzania na ufisadi hakuna tofauti na RSA.Viongozi wetu weusi bado kabisa!

    Ile vurugu ya kupiga wageni wengine toka Africa,inaonyesha jinsi gani weusi wa RSA wako frustrated.Na mfahamu Msauzi mmoja,akasema weusi wa huko wanataka serikali iwape kila kitu,hivyo kujibidisha hakuna kabisa.

    Mandela aliogopa kwenda Mugabe type,maana kubali tusikubali Wazungu bado wanadominate bishara ya dunia.Kumbuka RSA kuna viwanda vya magari na investment ambayo hakuna tena Afrika,ukifanya uMugabe wazungu wataondoa investment.Tatizo sio Wazungu,ni viongozi walioko huko.Hata AIDS huwezi kulaumu Mzungu!Kumbuka huyu Zuma alikuwa na equivalent scandal ya RADAR Tanzania,mhindi wake (handyman equivalent ya Vithlani)alifungwa gerezani.

    Hata uwanyanganye wazungu leo ardhi ,uwape Wazawa wa huko(weusi),mambo yatakuwa mabaya zaidi.Kumbuka zaidi ya 2 millioni Zimbabwe wanasota mitaani Sauz!

    tatizo la RSA ni competent leadership,wengi viongozi walikuwa ni freedom fighters,suala la economics lilikuwa nyuma sana.
  19. Pakawa

    Pakawa JF-Expert Member

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    Fuse zimeanza kuachia biiiiiing!!
  20. X-PASTER

    X-PASTER Moderator

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    Winnie naona anazeeka vibaya sasa, maana anakuwa kama mungunya... kuharibikia uzeeni.