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Makanisa yavunje MoU na Serikali...

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Sikonge, Oct 19, 2012.

  1. Sikonge

    Sikonge JF-Expert Member

    #1
    Oct 19, 2012
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    Kutokana na kulalamikiwa saana na Waislaam kuwa Makubaliano kati ya Serikali ya Tanzania na Makanisa (MOU) yanafanya nchi hii iwe na "Mfumo Kristo" na hivyo kuwanyanyasa Waislaam na hata kuwatawala, inabidi ifike wakati Makanisa yaanze kufikiria jinsi ya kuvunja mkataba huo na kurudi kama ilivyokuwa zamani.

    Kwa sababu hili swala limeonakana likichochea sana vurugu, mie napendekeza lifuatalo:

    - Wavunje mkataba wa MOU na Serikali.

    -Waislaam wawe wanalipia gharama kwa bei ya kawaida ya kutibiwa kwenye Mahospital ya Kanisa.

    -Waislaam wawe wanalipia gharama kwa bei ya kawaida ya kusomeshwa kwenye Mashule ya Kanisa nk.

    -Makanisa na vitengo vyake, viwe vinalipa kodi kwa kufanya biashara ya Hospitals, Shule nk.

    -Gharama kwa walio Wakristo, ziwe zinapunguzwa kwa wingi kwa sababu wao hutoa michango mingi tu ya kuendeleza kanisa na sadaka za kila Jumapili.

    -Kwa wasio Wakristo na hapo wanapoishi hakuna hospital ya Serikali au ya dini yao, basi itabidi wailazimishe Serikali MPYA ya Tanzania ambayo haitakuwa na Mfumo Kristo tena ili wawajengee Hospitals za Serikali.

    Kama Serikali ikishindwa basi wajiandae kulipa gharama kubwa kwenye huduma hizo za jamii au KUBADILI DINI. Kama siyo hilo basi na wao na dini zao wajenge hizo huduma za jamii ili kushindana na za Makanisa.

    Nafikiri muda umefika wa kuonyesha kuwa Viongozi wa Makanisa ni Wasomi wa hali ya juu na siku zote "Akili kubwa hutawala akili ndogo......" Vinginevyo, akili zao zitakuwa kazi bure kama hawawezi kutatua matatizo yaliyowazunguka.

    Kama kuna kundi jingine au Serikali litakuja na mbinu mbadala na kuweka huduma hizi za jamii katika bei nafuu zaidi, basi ina maana huduma za jamii kutoka kwenye Makanisa tutakuwa hatuhitaji tena. Maendeleo yanakuja kwa mashindano. Muda umefika Makanisa kutangaza mashindano kwa kutoa huduma za JAMII VS dini nyingine au Serikali.

    NB: Nashukuru MOD(s) uliyeongeza Maneno hayo chini. Yatasaidia kupunguza kutokuelewana. Thanks again.

    **************
    Usichangie hoja hii kwa kuirukia, isome na uelewe context

    Kwa wageni; Soma hii - MoU kati ya Serikali na Kanisa Katoliki na Taasisi nyingine za Kidini
     
  2. j

    jakamoyo JF-Expert Member

    #2
    Oct 19, 2012
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    makanisa yamenufaika sana na yanaendelea kunufaika na MOU pamoja na misamaha ya kodi.

    Ndiomana serekali ilipojaribu kufuta misamaha ya kodi kwa taasisi za dini wakapiga kelele mpaka ikashindikana.

    Serekali haijashindwa kujenga hosptali au shule, makanisa yaendeshe shule zake na hospt na yaache kutegemea kodi tunayolipa watanzania wote inufaishe watu wachache.

    Tuangalie chanzo cha malalamiko ya waislam na tukitibu na sio kujaribu kutibu matokeo kama lilivyofanya tamko la maaskofu leo.

    Kuishia kulaumu waislam sio suluhisho, makanisa yajitoe kwenye MOU na yasiingilie mambo ya waislam kama walivyofanya kwenye tamko lao la leo walipozungumzia suala la mwinyi kupigwa kofi au kugomea sensa.
     
  3. C

    Concrete JF-Expert Member

    #3
    Oct 19, 2012
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    Ni akili mgando hizo.

    *Kwani waislam wanakatazwa kuwa na 'MOU' na serikali.

    *MOU haiko kwenye taasisi za kidini pekee na serikali, zipo taasisi nyingi za umma kama NHC, NSSF, NIC wana 'MOU' na taasisi binafsi ikiwemo miradi mbalimbali.

    *Hivi unajua kuna miradi mingapi ya afya inayomilikiwa na kanisa, na faida yake kijamii? Wewe hukai kijijini na wala ukiugua hutibiwi kijijini, maana ungeyajua haya wala usingesema.

    *Makanisa yalianzisha miradi hiyo kuhudumia jamii nzima pasipo kubagua mtu kwa misingi ya kidini.
     
  4. D

    Dr.Who Senior Member

    #4
    Oct 19, 2012
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    Bora tusiyachoma makanisa, kwa sababu kodi itaongezeka na ufisadi utaongezeka ili wakuu wakina Edward na wakiristo wengine wezi wakachangie makanisani
     
  5. J

    Jasusi JF-Expert Member

    #5
    Oct 19, 2012
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    Sikonge,
    Ningependa kukunga mkono lakini believe me, hata kama MOU itavunjwa, wenzetu watakuja na malalamiko mengine kabisa.
    Ukisikia wanalalamikia "mfumo kristo" ujue there is more than just MOU. Utakuja kuniambia siku moja.
     
  6. Echolima

    Echolima JF-Expert Member

    #6
    Oct 19, 2012
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    Sikonge na jakamoyo mmedanganywa na sheikh Ponda mnacheza ngoma msiyoijua kila siku tunawaambia ukiambiwa neno lichunguze na tena utumie na akili yako kufikiri.
     
  7. Sikonge

    Sikonge JF-Expert Member

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    Oct 19, 2012
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    Mkuu Jakamoyo,

    Umesahau Point mbili ambazo nimeandika mwanzo na hukuzijibu kabisa:

    1. Sikonge Hospital wanalalamika kuwa kwa miaka zaidi ya 10 wamekuwa wakipewa pesa kidogo sana kwa siku za karibuni hawalipwi kabisa pesa na Serikali. Wanapata shida sana kuwalipa wafanyakazi wake.

    2. Hospital za Serikali zina hali mbaya sana hadi kupelekea migomo miwili iliyoitikisa nchi na Dr. Ulimboka kutekwa na kupigwa sana nusura afe. Unafikiri kama huko Muhimbili hawana hela/madawa/vifaa, hali ikoje kwa Sikonge Hospitals?
    Au Serikali inawaogopa sana viongozi wa kanisa?

    Ingelikuwa kweli wanawaogopa, basi hata kanisa moja lisingelichomwa na kama wangelichomwa, basi amini usiamini hakuna jiwe lingeachwa wima hadi kumpata aliyefanya hivyo.

    Kama kuna FAIDA kwenye MOI, kwanini WAISLAAM hamchangamkii hizo PESA? Mwisho wa siku ndiyo nyinyi mmeshika hii nchi.
     
  8. Sikonge

    Sikonge JF-Expert Member

    #8
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    Wee kweli waKUJA. Kama unasoma kwa kutumia MCHINA na kibatari, basi subiri kesho mchana usome ujumbe wangu wote ndiyo ujibu. Lala Salama na Ngedere wako.
     
  9. N

    NAPEGWA New Member

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    Oct 19, 2012
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    "mshike sana elimu husimuache aende zake" wenzetu walimuacha
     
  10. Sikonge

    Sikonge JF-Expert Member

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    [h=2]Ridhiwan Kikwete na "utajiri wa kutupwa"[/h]http://www.jamiiforums.com/habari-na-hoja-mchanganyiko/133834-ridhiwan-kikwete-na-utajiri-wa-kutupwa.html

    Sawa kabisa Mkuu. Ridhiwan hela zake zote zinaishia Kanisani. Ramadhani Dau ndiyo nasikia hata Account zake zite kawakabidhi viongozi wa kanisa, Halleluyah......
     
  11. Echolima

    Echolima JF-Expert Member

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    Tatizo SIKONGE Umekaririshwa hivyo kukutoa hapo si rahisi ila jitahidi sana kutumia na BONGO zako usizidiwe na NGEDERE wangu.
     
  12. H

    Honolulu JF-Expert Member

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    Oct 19, 2012
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    Kenya, Somalia na kwingineko Waislamu wanalalamika tu!!! Huko nao kuna MOU????
     
  13. H

    Honolulu JF-Expert Member

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    Mbona hiyo sasa itakuwa ni biashara nzuri sana kwa kanisa? Maana bila pesa hakuna matibabu. Watajipangia gharama kubwa wanayotaka. Aliye maskini shauri yake!!!
     
  14. H

    Honolulu JF-Expert Member

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    Boko haram wanapochoma makanisa huko Nigeria ni kwa Sababu ya MOU?????
     
  15. j

    jakamoyo JF-Expert Member

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    makanisa yamenufaika sana na yanaendelea kunufaika na MOU pamoja na misamaha ya kodi.

    Ndiomana serekali ilipojaribu kufuta misamaha ya kodi kwa taasisi za dini wakapiga kelele mpaka ikashindikana.

    Serekali haijashindwa kujenga hosptali au shule, makanisa yaendeshe shule zake na hospt na yaache kutegemea kodi tunayolipa watanzania wote inufaishe watu wachache.

    Tuangalie chanzo cha malalamiko ya waislam na tukitibu na sio kujaribu kutibu matokeo kama lilivyofanya tamko la maaskofu leo.

    Kuishia kulaumu waislam sio suluhisho, makanisa yajitoe kwenye MOU na yasiingilie mambo ya waislam kama walivyofanya kwenye tamko lao la leo walipozungumzia suala la mwinyi kupigwa kofi au kugomea sensa.
     
  16. Father of All

    Father of All JF-Expert Member

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    Mwanangu Sikonge nilikuwa nikikuheshimu na kukuhusudu bila kujua kuwa kumbe wewe ni bomu! Tukianza kuangalia mambo kwa mboni za udini hawa tulielemika vya kutosha na kutisha tutaonekana mataahira na vihiyo kama ambayo hoja yako imekuweka. Hakuna mfumokristo bali mihangaiko na hisia za mfumo huo. Tukiangalia waislamu wanavyovumiliwa kwenye kutaka kuvunja amani kila mwenye akili anakushangaa. Ondoa hiyo miwani yako ya mbao na kiarabu uuangalie utanzania.
     
  17. jmushi1

    jmushi1 JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu Sikonge, ni kama vile ulikuwa kwenye mawazo yangu. Lakini je na makanisa hayo yatazizuia taasisi zake kutoa huduma za afya na elimu kwa watu wasiokuwa wa madhehebu yao?

    Ni ukweli kabisa hilo litaondoa mzizi wa fitina, ila pia kutakuwepo na madhara yake mengi tu. Especially kama kuna watu wasiokuwa wa madhehebu hayo ambao bado walikuwa wakipata unafuu wa huduma hizo kutokana na msaada mmoja wa serikali kwenye uchangiaji wa kuendesha huduma hizo.

    Hatahivyo bottomline nakubaliana na wewe.
     
  18. d

    dmwinuka Member

    #18
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    Haya ni mawazo mgando kwani yanaonyesha udini hasa, hivi kwa mawazo yako kwa nini hao waislamu wasianze kutoa huduma hizo za bei nafuu ili watu wengine waende huko na ama wao kuwa na MOU na serikali kwani nani kawakataza au kuna faida gani kwa muislamu kung'ang'ania huduma za gharama kubwa anazojua zinafuja kodi yake kama hanufaiki nazo?

    Hata hivyo hujalazimishwa kutumia huduma za kanisa kama unaona kutumia huduma hizo ni mfumo kristo tumia za kiislamu maana una uhuru huo wala hulazimishwi. Hiyo misamaha na hata hiyo MOU unayosema haijazuiwa kwa waislamu na sijaona ukishauri kuwa waislamu wawe na MOU na serikali maana misamaha ya kodi tayari tunanufaika nayo.

    Si waislamu wote wana mawazo ya udini kama haya kwani wanaelewa athari zake.
     
  19. jmushi1

    jmushi1 JF-Expert Member

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    Sasa kama MOU si kwa taasisi za makanisa peke yake,kwanini msijitokeze kuwaambia hayo waislam especially humu ambapo wamekuwa wakipotosha kwamba ni mikataba ya makanisa na serikali ambayo ni ya kifisadi?

    Wewe unapoona kuna mtu anayependekeza ifutwe ndiyo unakurupuka kusema ni akili mgando,sasa akili mgando si ndo kukaa kimya bila kusema chochote?Wala sijawahi kuona hatua madhubuti za kujaribu kupinga hayo ili jamii ya watanzania waelewe ukweli.

    Mimi mwenyewe pamoja na kufuatilia kwangu mijadala humu,hii ni mara ya pili tu kuona mtu amebandika statement ya namna hii kuhusu mikataba ya MOU kwamba si ya taasisi za dini za wakristo peke yake!

    Na ndipo nilipogunduwa kuwa ni chuki tu,na ndiyo nikawa namuuliza Mkandara ni kwanini hawaitumii na wao nafasi hiyo kufanya the same?

    Mkuu ushauri wangu,ni bora kuwa proactive badala ya reactive.Hivyo ndivyo kutokuwa na akili mgando kutaleta mantiki.
     
  20. J

    JERUSALEMU JF-Expert Member

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    Tatizo la waislamu lipo karibu kwa watu wote, WALIOSOMA NA WASIOSOMA. Wakati unategemea waliosoma wawasaidie ambao hawajasoma unakuta na wao wakiwa kwenye vikao vyao wote wanawaza vilevile. Mapendekezo ya mtoa mada siyo tu ni ya kitoto bali pia yanaonesha ni ya mtu aliye soma lakini ameamua kufikiri kama wasio soma.

    NI KAMA ANAPENDEKEZA KUWAWALIO ENDELEA WAWASUBIRI WALIO NYUMA KIMAENDELEO.

    Waislamu walio wengi elimu kwao ni kama anasa. Ukiangalia maeneo yaliyo na waislamu wengi mahudhurio ya watoto wao shuleni yako chini ya asilimia 50. Ukienda BAGAMOYO, CHALINZE, LINDI YOTE, MTWARA YOTE KASORO MASASI, siku mvua ikinyesha tu asubuhi mahudhurio yanashuka hadi asilimia 25!! Hali kama hiyo huwezi kuikuta Kilimanjaro, Mbeya, Shinyanga, Iringa, Ruvuma, na maeneo yote ya wakristo wengi.

    Kama wakitambua kuwa elimu ni ufunguo wa maisha basi ungetegemea kuona wanajenga shule nyingi zenye ubora wa hali ya juu na kuimarisha uongozi wa shule zao sambamba na kutafuta walimu wenye sifa nzuri kitaaluma na siyo kiroho tu. Shule zao siyo tu zinatia huruma lakini pia nyingi zinaendeshwa kimagumashi. Karibu zote wastani wa kufaulisha watoto kwenda kidato cha tano ni asilimia kati ya 2 hadi 5 tu.

    USHARI WANGU NI wajitathini wenyewe kwanza.
     
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