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Lipumba na Tanzania

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Mwiba, Dec 22, 2007.

  1. Mwiba

    Mwiba JF-Expert Member

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    Dec 22, 2007
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    Naona ipo haja ya kumpigia Debe Mtanzania Lipumba , nionavyo kama kuna mtu ambae anafaa kuwa Raisi wa Tanzania basi hakuna kama Lipumba ,ikiwa tunalohitajia ni kiongozi msomi basi Mnyamwezi Lipumba ndie anaefaa kubebeshwa mzigo mzito.
    Tiweke tofauti za kichama tuamue kujikwamua kutoka hapa tulipo ambapo tumekwama kwenye matope ya CCM,tuelekeze nguvu zetu zote kwa mtu mmoja tu kampeni ziwepo za ndani za chini kwa chini za uwazi kumtangaza Lipumba,nimejaribu kufuatilia hotuba zake zote kwa kweli inaonekana wazi ni mtu anaeumwa sana na hali ya WaTanzania ,ni mtu mwenye upeo na muono na ambae hana sababu ya kumfanya Mtanzania abakie omba omba na nchi yake iwe tegemezi.Lipumba karibu hotuba zake zote zilichoma juu ya hali ya MTanzania na zilifanana kwani hakubabaika katika kubadilisha mazingatio ya hotuba yake na alikuwa hapaki rangi hotuba zake kwa kubadilisha badilisha maneno na kiini cha matatizo ,naweza kusema niliweza kujua atachokisema neno kwa neno kutokana na kusikiliza hotuba yake iliyopita,hakuwa mbabaishaji haya ya ufisadi akiyasema kwa kina kuwa Watanzania watabakishiwa mashimo matupu.
    Inaaminiwa kabisa kama mtu huyu angeshinda au alishinda kwenye uchaguzi uliopita kilichofanyika ni mazingaombwe ya CCM ambayo yalimpiga na chini.
    Inafaa kabisa Watanzania kwa kauli moja wamfanyie kampeni Lipumba kwenye kila kona kuanzia kwenye vyombo vya usalama wa Taifa Polisi Jeshi na uraiani ili hila za mafisadi zisiweze kutumika na zikitumika zigonge ukuta.
    Sina historia ya Lipumba juu ya kuhusika na mambo ambayo yangemtia ila kuwa kiongozi bora ukilinganisha na viongozi wa vyama vingine.
    Labda kama nikimalizia ikiwa huyu hatokubalika basi anaefaa kushika usukani wa Tanzania ni Salim Ahamed Salimu ambae naamini kabisa ilikuwa ni roho na tamaa ya Watanzania wengi kwa muheshimiwa huyu kushika usukani ,hila na njama ndizo zilizomfanya apigwe na chini kwa mambo ambayo wajuzi wa historia yake wanasema hakuwa nazo,na kama Jeshi likiamua kufanya kweli kutokana na kuchoshwa na ukiritimba wa mafisadi wa CCM basi ni rahisi kumuweka Salumu kuwa Raisi wa Tanzania naamini(na sidhani kama anahusika na kashfa zilizoigubika TZ) kabisa wajeshi wana imani na mtu huyu na bila ya shaka wanazo kumbukumbu zake alipokuwa Waziri wa Ulinzi kwani Jeshi lilikuwa limestawi na lenye afya.
    Ni lazima Watanzania waamue ni nani wanamtaka awe Raisi wao kabla ya kampeni na upigwaji kura.
    Naomba kuwasilisha hoja kwa WaTanzania popote walipo.
     
  2. Mtu wa Pwani

    Mtu wa Pwani JF-Expert Member

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    Dec 22, 2007
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    ndugu yangu mwiba mjadala mzuri,

    wacha nitulie nije vizuri kuchangia
     
  3. M

    Mr EWA JF-Expert Member

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    Dec 22, 2007
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    Mimi nafikiri tuko na matatizo mengi sana ambayo kwa uchache ni haya:
    1.viongozi wetu wa siasa wanajua jinsi ya kucheza rafu ili mtu anayefaa asichaguliwe na wanapenda achaguliwe mtu atakaye jali maslahi yao na ndio maana wako tayari kuendesha kampeni za aina yeyote kwa masilahi yao.

    2.Wasomi wengi wameshindwa kuunda umoja wenye nguvu na wamebaki kama wakimbizi wa nchi yao na hili ndio tatizo kubwa kwani wasomi ndio wanaweza panga mbinu kabambe kwa kuikonboa nchi hii.

    3.Wananchi wengi na hasa wasomi wanakuwa wagumu wa kujiandikisha na kupiga kura kwa kuchagua viongozi wao na hasa kwa kukata tamaa na mambo yanyofanywa na viongozi wetu na hapo ndio tunatoa nafasi ya kuendelea kuteseka ndani ya nchi yetu.

    4.Matumizi makubwa ya fedha na pamoja na njaa za jamii yetu basi fedha hizo huweza kubadilisha mitizamo ya watu wengi na hapo ndio viongozi wetu wanatumia nafasi hiyo.

    Kwa ufupi hivyo ndivyo nionavyo mimi nafikiri tukihamasishana vizuri na tukatatua matatizo ya kimifumo na hapo ndio tunaweza pata kiongozi msomi na mwenyekujali masilahi ya wananchi na si masilahi yake mwenyewe.
     
  4. Mtanganyika

    Mtanganyika JF-Expert Member

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    Mimi i liked Lipumba kabla, but i cant stand him now. Na naamini hivi vichache vinamdisqualify hata kuwa mayor wa Dar.

    Kwanza lazima ifahamike Tanzania ni nchi, and Lipumba is not the only best candidate kutoka upinzani. Mwaka 1995 it didn't work for him, then 2000, okay 2005 then same crap. Sasa why he is keep runing for the position over and over. How sure he can prove he is not one of them? He is greed wa madaraka as many other viongozi.

    Second, kuna hata siku mmoja Lipumba amexplain ni njia zipi atatumia kufanya sisi tuwe na Uchumi bora? Sababu trust me theory za kwenye vitabu haziwork in real lifes.

    Tatu, Kwa nini anang'ang'ania madara kwa miaka 15 sasa, Jee yeye ni mgombea pekee? Hii ni kusema hakuna wanao qualify zaidi ya yeye? Au wanachama wanamuamini sana yeye zaidi ya wanachama wengine?

    Nne, tunajua yeye ni kiongozi wa chama, apart na kupiga debe kwenye medias kuhusu uchumu ni step gani amechukua yeye kama Mtanzania kusaidia watanzania wenzie kwenye small scale economy. Hili haliitaji mtaji, hata kwenda kulecture kwa small business about what is the effects on hold inventory, au ni njia gani zitawasaidia wakulima wadogo kushinda kwenye world market. Sasa kama huwezi kutake small milestones, how will you take big milestones over night?

    Comeone people, let us wake up..... All this non sense you heard about I am outsider, i will bring changes, is just bullshit. Lipumba, Mrema, Jakaya, Mbowe and many other ni the same Shekh but different kanzu. Kama kweli umekuwa committed na watanzania show us kabla hujaingia madarakani. Tumia elimu yako kuwa creative, weka Joho lako la uwenyekiti pembeni then get in the grassroot and help poor Tanzanian in their day to day decisions.
     
  5. E

    Engineer Mohamed JF-Expert Member

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    Dec 22, 2007
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    kama CCM watamsimisha Dr ALI MOHAMED SHEIN 2015 basi naamini CCM itarudi kwa kishindo kikubwa madarakani otherwise WAIT AND SEE manake kila ninayemtazama walobakia MBABE KULIKO MWENZAKE.
     
  6. Kitila Mkumbo

    Kitila Mkumbo Verified User

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    Dec 22, 2007
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    Ok, so it looks like to you no politician in contemporary TZ can lead the country prosperously. So, tell us where shall get our leaders? Should we import them from other countries?
     
  7. G

    Game Theory JF-Expert Member

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    Dec 22, 2007
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    Hivi nyie wengine mtaamka lini?

    Tangua 95 alikuwa kiongozi wa upinzania na keshashindwa chaguzi ngapi?

    HIvi kwa nini nyie wengine mnapenda ku recycle viongozi waliofeli?

    its unbelievable mtu anakuja JF na mawazo kama haya
     
  8. Pundit

    Pundit JF-Expert Member

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    Dec 22, 2007
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    Objections kwamba Lipumba kashapata muda wake ni za msingi.Juzi South Korea walikuwa na uchaguzi na wamekataa kumsimamisha "Lipumba" wao aliyeshindwa chaguzi kadhaa zilizopita.It makes sense kuwapa nafasi wengine.Zaidi ya hapo, unapomchagua rais sio tu unamchagua mtu, bali zaidi chama.Sasa ukimchagua Lipumba bila ya network ya nguvu ya chama chake (wabunge, serikalini etc) atafanya kazi na nani?

    Kitila, in 1995 Nyerere alivyotoa sifa za mtanzania safi wa kuongoza nchi Eda Sanga wa RTD alimuuliza Nyerere "Mwalimu mbona mtu huyo kama hayupo Tanzania" Nyerere akasema kusema hayupo katika nchi yenye mamilioni ya watu ni sawa na kututusi (not exact words).I believe it was Socrates who said something to the effect of "Those who lead cannot and those who can, will not"

    It sounds to me that most honest and capable leaders are either operating under the radar and therefore not necessarily household names.To get to be a household name one needs to sacrifice some principles and therefore most household name politicians in bongo are already unqualified.Wabunge karibu wote, especially wa CCM wametoa rushwa, upinzani kuna backbiting za ajabu, kwa hiyo kama kuna mtu anafaa kuongoza anaweza kuwa yupo chini chini wala hajulikanin sana.

    The dilemma is one needs proven experience kugombea urais, at the same time kupata proven experience in the current settings one will definitely need to sacrifice many principles.

    Ndiyo maana kuna washua kibao wamefanya kazi serikalini wamestaafu wameombwa kugombea hata ubunge wame decline.Wana wito lakini wanajua the herculian task ya kuleta mabadiliko katika system iliyo frustrating kama ya sasa.

    Most of the opposition leaders are driven by personal ambition to get to State House.Thats how I see it.I have yet to see a truly promising public servant posing a serious alternative among the household name politicians.Maybe the Kitilas and Mnyikas of opposition will rescue Tanzania, but then again it takes tremendous political acumen to do what Harvey Mackay calls "Swimming With The Sharks Without Being Eaten Alive"
     
  9. Mwiba

    Mwiba JF-Expert Member

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    Dec 22, 2007
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    Kwa maelezo ambayo nimeyaona ,nimeamini kabisa kila mtu ana namna yake ya kufahamu au ufahamu ,na hivyo nawajibika kusema sikufahamika vilivyo.
    Lipumba ni tofauti kabisa na wagombea wengine ni mtu ambae natumai wengi wenu mna elewa ni muajiriwa wa kimataifa na mmoja kati ya mabingwa wa uchumi kwa aina ya kazi yake inamuia vigumu kuamua kuifundisha jamii namna ya kujinasua wakati haumruhusu na elimu aliyonayo sio ile ya kumfahamisha muuza mchicha au muuza nazi vipi ajinasue na si kwamba hawezi lakini huko siko katika stage aliofikia natumai yeye yupo katika majumuisho makubwa ya Uchumi wa nchi sasa kumtaka akae atoe lecture ya vipi utajinasua kiuchumi kwa kuuza mahembe bora tubaki na hawa hawa viongozi waliopo sasa tutasoma.
    Mimi siamini kama Tanzania kumewahi kufanyika Uchaguzi usio kuwa na mizengwe hivyo sitambui kushindwa kwa mgombea wowote yule si mbunge si diwani,hapo naweka kuwa kiongozi yeyote yupo katika mstari kwa nafasi yeyote kuitetea tena.
    Kuna sababu za kujadiliwa lakini si hizi za mtu kushidwa katika chaguzi ziazosimamiwa na CCM.
    Sababu kubwa ambayo ninaiona ifanyiwe kazi ni kuongeza idadi ya wabunge wenye msimamo mkali ndani ya Bunge la Jamhuri kutoka upinzani hapa tunaweza kupiga hatua ikiwa tutaachana na hili la kumpata kiongozi bora.
     
  10. Kitila Mkumbo

    Kitila Mkumbo Verified User

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    Dec 22, 2007
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    Pundit: kama tunasema Lipumba hafai iwe kwa sababu zingine sio ya kugombea mara nyingi. Kuna marais kibao walioshinda baada ya kujaribu a dozen times-Mfano wa karibu ni wa Wade wa Senegal-yeye alianza kugombea akiwa na miaka 35 na alishinda baada ya kujaribu mara 7-yaani alipata akiwa na 70s. Sasa itakuwa Lipumba aliyegombea mara tatu tu. Kwa hiyo swala iwe does the guy has what it takes to be a president in a poor country like TZ? And my answer is a resounding YES-kama jk ameweza kuwa Rais itakuwa Lipumba bwana?
     
  11. G

    Game Theory JF-Expert Member

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    In short jamaa alishindwa kudeliever na wewe kama mwana JF tunakutegemea uko progressive lakini bado unataka kutuletea mizoga

    The man was failure as a presidential candidate. Hebu njoo na idea nyingine mpya
     
  12. Pundit

    Pundit JF-Expert Member

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    Dec 23, 2007
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    Kitila,

    I hear you, but then again labda Wade angempisha kijana opposition ingeweza kufanikiwa mara ya pili au tatu instead ya kusubiri mara saba mopaka watu sasa wanampa kura ya huruma kama Oscar ya Mzee Marty Scorcese after 26 years!.My fear ni kwamba kwa Lipumba kugombea over and over tunakuwa hatuwapi nafasi watu wengine wanaoweza kuwa na uwezo na charisma kama yake au zaidi.Kwa hiyo kuwe na logical limit ya mtu kuweza kupata nafasi ya kugombea, otherwise tunarisk kurudi kwenye mambo ya "zidumu fikira za mwenyekiti" na mambo ya kufanya chama kiwe mtu mmoja.Dangerous indeed.
     
  13. Rev. Kishoka

    Rev. Kishoka JF-Expert Member

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    Dec 23, 2007
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    Kudos Mtanganyika,

    This is my beef with Opposition and those of CCM who claim they are for the people!

    Demontrate what you are talking so that people can have faith in you. Cheap Talk does not work. Even Watanzania knows this!
     
  14. Rev. Kishoka

    Rev. Kishoka JF-Expert Member

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    Mwiba, you sound like a buffoon!

    Yaani ina maana Lipumba is too of an intellectual kwamba he can not talk into simple terms to help mlima mchicha tu have better life? If that is the case, why should we have a president who can not relate to an average Mtanzania due to his Phd?

    95% of taifa have no 1st degree, sasa unatuambia kuwa mgombea wako is such a useless economist that he can not translate simple matters that are needed to elevate peoples well being that are crucial for our development!

    If he can not help mkulima mchicha au fundi seremala to become competent on his craft, using simple terms of economics, how should we trust him to govern and lead our country using complex theories?

    Is he too good for us? if so no wonder no mwananchi has been able to relate to him or his party for the past 15 years thus failing to win elections due to his "complex" nature!

    Mzee umeboronga sana na kuharibu wasifu wa mgombea wako!
     
  15. Kitila Mkumbo

    Kitila Mkumbo Verified User

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    Si wajitoleze basi wengine. Wewe waTZ unawasikia tu. Kila mtu anataka kugombea through CCM, hata hapa JF waambie watu wakagombee ubunge uone watakwenda chama gani. Watz hawataki shida, wanataka mteremko. In shirt a majority of us in TZ want to be part of success, but not part of the struggle. Kwa hiyo mnapomlaumu Lipumba tuambie ni nani aliyetaka kugombea kupitia CUF na Lipumba akataa kumpisha au akakataliwa kushindana naye. Jamani watz inabidi muwaelewe, kuna kazi sana. Kila mtu anataka CCM, upinzani kupata hata mgombea moja wa ubunge inakuwa mbinde, lakini huko ccm wanakimbilia mamia, sasa mnataka akina Lipumba wafanyeje, waue vyama ili turudi enzi zile?
     
  16. Rev. Kishoka

    Rev. Kishoka JF-Expert Member

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    Mayu Kitila,

    Sidhani kama tunahoji ushujaa wake Lipumba, Mrema au Cheyo kugombea kila uchaguzi. Bali ni kukosekana na muelekeo thabiti katika chama na sera zao.

    Inafikia wakati sisi tunajiunga na Watanzania wenzetu na kudai heri ya "Zimwi likujualo,..." ambaye ni CCM kuliko CUF, TLP au Chadema ambao hatuwajui vizuri.

    Ndio maana nimeanza kampeni mapema kuhoji ujenzi wa Upinzani makini na yakinifu na si kusubiri 2009 kuanza kuimba ngonjera!
     
  17. K

    Kalamu JF-Expert Member

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    Ni kipi ambacho waTanzania wengi waliokataa kumchagua safari zote tatu ambacho mleta hoja anaona ni mhimu zaidi kielezwe tena kwa wananchi wakielewe.

    Hotuba nzuri, hazi not cut it so far, and will never cut it mbele ya wapiga kura.
     
  18. Kitila Mkumbo

    Kitila Mkumbo Verified User

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    So what is needed here? Mtaji wa mwanasiasa ni maneno ili apewe nafasi ya kuyatekeleza kwa vitendo na ndiyo hayohayo apimwe naye. Ndio maana leo tunamkaanga Kikwete kwa maneno yake aliyotuuzia wakati wa kampeni. Kumbe ulitaka Lipumba akupe nini zaidi ya hutuba nzuri iliyojaa busara? Agawa kanga, achimbe visima or what do you want?
     
  19. Kitila Mkumbo

    Kitila Mkumbo Verified User

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    Mayu this is only half true. Of all the people, hakuna mtu ambaye amekuwa aki-expound the most progressive policies for our country like Lipumba. Wala sitaki nikubaliane nawe kwamba CCM inaendelea kuchaguliwa kwa sababu ya sera. Katika mwanasiasa aliyesheheni sera Tanzania hakuna anayemfikia Lipumba na tena ingekuwa sera ndiyo issue kubwa kwa wapiga kura wetu Lipumba angekuwa Rais tangu 1995. Nakumbuka hotuba za Lipumba 2000 na 2005 kuhusu ujenzi wa viwanda vya kusindika matunda ili kuwapa wananchi wanaolima mazao haya soko la uhakikia na ajira. Karibu kila mkoa aliyopita alikuwa na a very down to earth solution to economic and social problem there. Alieleza in a very simple and lay language. Lakini wapi watz wakamshangilia lakini kura wakampa mzee wa mzaha na patron wa mambo ya umiss.

    Ukimwondoa Nyerere, hakuna mwanasiasa TZ aliyewahi kuibuka na sera za maana zaidi ya Lipumba. Bahati mbaya kipimo cha watanzania sio umakini wa mtu bala mzaha, mtu wa kujichanganya, kucheka. In short you have to be unserious to get into political leadership via CCM in Tz. Hata Mkapa ile kuwa serious mwanzoni kidogo kum-cost isingekuwa Nyerere. We are just too different when it comes to political competence. And the issues here are far complex than a mere progressive policies. I repeat CCM is not in power because it has good and progressive policies. It is simply banking on its history and people's civic incompetence and political ignorant and they are being helped by the better the devil you know atttude as you alluded to above. Politically, speaking, CCM is the most bankrupt party in TZ when it comes to ideological and policy stance.
     
  20. K

    Kigeugeu Member

    #20
    Dec 23, 2007
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    Is Lipumba = Nyerere katika sera? Can you make a comparison and contrast?
    Mtu anagombea uraisi tangu 1995 bila kupata na bado tu anaelendelea kugombea?
     
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