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Law School: Check out this from UDSM..

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Sheria (The Law Forum)' started by Mdau, Aug 5, 2009.

  1. Mdau

    Mdau JF-Expert Member

    #1
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    Dean wa UDSM School of Law kawatoa wasiwasi wanafunzi wake wanaomaliza masomo yao mwaka 2009 kwamba tamko la Waziri kuwa Law School haitakuwa lazima kuanzia mwaka huu wa fedha halina mashiko,na kama Bunge litakalokutana Novemba litataka kubadilisha Sheria ili Law School isiwe lazima, basi wanafunzi hao wajikusanye na kwenda kwenye Public Hearings Dodoma ili kutoa malalamiko yao kwa kamati..........wadau,wanafunzi hawa wanamaliza bila kupata mafunzo yoyote kwa miaka 4 waliyosomea shahada yao ya Sheria;

    1. wataweza kuzuia muswada huu kama utapelekwa kwenye kamati na hatimaye bungeni kujadiliwa?

    2. watajipanga vipi kwenda Dodoma wakati most of them ni watoto wa wakulima, na watakua makwao by then?

    3. je, tunapoelekea ili uweze kuwa wakili wa kujitegemea, ni lazima utoke kwenye familia inayojiweza tu?

    4. is it right to say that law profession imekua ni kwa matajiri na watoto wa wakubwa tu?
     
  2. Z

    Zhule JF-Expert Member

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    Lah umetumia lugha ngumu kweli sikuelewa."Law scchool" hapa ina maana ya "intership" au kama college vile
     
  3. Mdau

    Mdau JF-Expert Member

    #3
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    Students from UDSM walikua wana utaratibu wa kupelekwa 'externiship', which u may term it as internship too...baada ya kuanzishwa kwa Law School, externiship was abolished, but sijui kwa vyuo vingine-Mzumbe in particular-kama 'interniship' ilifutwa..so,as lawyers in making, their last resort ni Law School...upo mdau??
     
  4. K

    Kibori Member

    #4
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    Law school of Tanzania ( maana siku hizi pia kuna law school of UDSM - formerly faculty of law) what a confusion . Kuanzishwa kwa hiki chuo ilikuwa ni moja ya mpango kabambe wa maboresho ya sheria nchini Tanzania kwa kiswahili sahihi ni chuo cha mafunzo kwa vitendo kwa wanasheria. Nia na Madhumuni yalikuwa kuongeza mafunzo ya pamoja kwa wanasheria nchini wote wanaomaliza vyuo mbali mbali kama UDSM, Mzumbe, Ruaha University, University of Zanzibar, Tumaini University to mention but a few. Wanafunzi wa sheria wanaomaliza sheria kwa kupitishwa kwa sheria ya 2007 " The Law School Act" ambayo ilizika rasmi mafunzo ya Externship and Interships na baada yake wanafunzi wote wa sheria waliomaliza vyuo vikuu kuanzia 2007 ukiwaondoa wale waliomaliza UDSM 2007 May ambao walikuwa wameshafanya Externship tayari, wengine wote watalazimika kwenda law school of Tanzania hosted by the UDSM faculty of law.

    Sheria ya Law School pamoja na kuzika rasim Externships and Internships, sheria pia ilidhubutu kusema kuwa mwanasheria yeyote ambaye atamaliza chou baada ya sheria hii mpya kupitishwa hawatoweza kuajiriwa popote mpaka wawe wamejiunga na kuhitimu law school . Kwa maneno marahisi law school ilifanywa lazima sio optional kwa wahitimu wote wa sheria kama ilivyonyambuliwa hapa juu.

    Dhumuni lingine la sheria hii pamoja na kuboresha mafunzo ya sheria kwa mafunzo pia ilikuwa na lengo la kubadilisha mfumo wa BAR Exams ambao wanasheria waliokuwa wakitaka kuwa mawakili ni lazima baada ya kumaliza sheria walilazimika kuomba kupetition kwa Mh. Jaji Mkuu na baada ya hapo kufanya mtihani ya Oral pindi akifaulu basi anaapishwa kuwa wakili . Law school of Tanzania iliazishwa pia kuzika mfumo huu wa zamani wa kutoa mawakili baadala yake, wanafunzi watafanya mtihani ya law school akifaulu anapisha moja kwa moja kuwa wakili kwa mjibu wa sheria hiyo mpya .

    Law School of Tanzania rasmi ilianza March 2008 takribani mwaka moja baada ya sheria kupitishwa na mpaka sasa batch or cohort kama kanuni za sheria hiyo mpya inavyosema zimeshafika nadhani kama zaidi ya 5 or 6 kila cohort ikiwa na wanafunzi 300 .

    Chuo hiki bado kinasusua pamoja na kwamba wanafunzi wameshaanza kufundishwa na baadhi kumaliza . Kwa kifupi hii ndio law school kwa wadau ambao hawafahamu . Bado ni mpya ndio maana watu wengi hawaifahamu .
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2009
  5. Dilunga

    Dilunga JF-Expert Member

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    Wameanza mwaka 2008 na wameshahitimisha batch 6? Batch moja linachukua muda gani kuhitimu?
     
  6. m

    mpangwa1 JF-Expert Member

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    I am a bit confused does it mean the school of law of udsm has taken the responsibility of law school of Tanzania? anyway kunatofuati gani kati ya faculty and school. wehen we had faculty of law the law school was there and no problem but when they changed the name from faculty to school i do think if they changed the sylabi to make it more practical. therefore the student should continue to fight for their right of having internship. anyway wengine sheria hatujii is it possible for them to go to court kupinga huo mswada au lazima ikawa palepale dodoma.
     
  7. K

    Kibori Member

    #7
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    sorry batch sita kwa maana ya majina kupangwa yaani walitoa orodha ya majina ya wanafunzi walioapply yakafika batch 6 lakini mpaka sasa zimeshaanza 4 sasa lakini zilizomaliza rasmi kabisa ni 2 tu ya tatu ndio wamaliza part one wanaenda field tena then watarudi baadae tena kumalizia. You see, wanafunzi wanakuwa enrolled kwa kupishana mieze kama miwili au mitatu because centers zipo mbili ya changombe na UDSM kwahivyo wanenda wakipisha hivyo. It is a 1 year course by law , but in practice ni kama miezi 10. Those who started March 2008 finished February 2009, second batch started July 2008 then finished June 2009 . Hapa kumaliza maana yake ni kufanya mtihani yote but bado hakuna aliyegraduate kwa maana ya shereke wapo nyumbani bado wanasubiri logistics zipangwe.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2009
  8. K

    Kibori Member

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    ok ni hivi, kunampango pale UDSM faculities zinajitenga na kuwa kama kitengo kama kinachojitegemea vile . hapa na maanisha, faculty of Education kwa sasa wanajiita " School of Education UDSM then sheria nao wakafanya hivyo but the law school of Tanzania ni tofauti ni imeanzishwa na sheria yake na kazi yake ni kama ilivyoelezwa hapo juu.

    Ok it is too late to say tunataka intership or externships because the law school Act 2007 imezika rasmi however in the comming parliament hopeful, the responsible Ministry will come up with some amendement to the current law which I think among other things itabadilisha ule ulazima kwa kumfanya kila anayemaliza sheria aende law school instead as I think watakoa ende ni wale ambao wanataka kuwa mawakili.

    Anyway let us wait and see but truely the current law has already proved some implimentation failure because it is just not practicable naona walikurupuka kuanzisha kwa akili ya haraka haraka
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2009
  9. K

    Kibori Member

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    Jambo moja niweke wazi hapa, The Law School of Tanzania Act 2007, ambayo ndio imeabolish ( Kama Mdau anavyotumia hili neno) externship and internship sio UDSM tu ni nchi nzima . Law of School of Tanzania kwa maneno mengine ni kwa wahitumu wote wa sheria kutoka vyuo vikuu vyote Tanzania (Hata wale wanaomaliza pia nje ya nchi) kuanzia 2007 (na hawakufanya internship or externship) na kuendelea ndio wanaotakiwa kwenda Law School baada ya kumaliza masomo yao ya sheria (yaani LL.B).
     
  10. Dilunga

    Dilunga JF-Expert Member

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    March mpaka July ni miezi minne, hivyo batch ya kwanza na ya pili zilipishana miezi minne (sio miwili, mitatu), bado sielewi unaposema toka 2008 zimemaliza batch sita!!

    Halafu ni nani aliyesema officially definitively kwamba sheria itabadilishwa mwakani? Au tuna guess?

    Kuhusu ku graduate, the biggest missing angle in the conversation about the so called law school ni kwamba katika darasa la kwanza la watu 300 nasikia waliofuzu ni 35 tu! Kama hii ni kweli, hapa kuna tatizo ambalo haliongelewi. Wanafunzi 270 hawawezi kuwa failures wote. Tatizo nini?

    Another thing, hii shule mnayosema ni ya practical training, wanafanya mitihani ya theory, si ndio? Kwa nini?
     
  11. Mchaga

    Mchaga JF-Expert Member

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    hahahahahahahah.......:)

    walimu wanataka kuwatoa mhanga wanafunzi kwani wao wamefanya nini katika hili?

    Halafu wao ndio magwiji wa sheria kwa nini wasifuate taratibu zinazotakiwa kama vile kwenda mahakamani badala ya kuwatuma wanafunzi kufanya lobbying bungeni, hahahahahahahah.....:) nji hii bana raha tupu maana kila kona kuna watu wanatoa single
     
  12. K

    Kibori Member

    #12
    Aug 7, 2009
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    Bwana Dilunga nimerudia kunukuu sehemu hapo juu ili usome tena kama itasaidia kujibu hoja ya ........." Bado sielewi unaposema toka 2008 zimemaliza batch sita" I hope it will help you understand.

    Ok Hoja yako nyingine, kuhusu mabadiliko ya sheria, kikao cha bunge kilichomalizika tu week iliyopita, Waziri wa sheria na katiba pamoja na mambo mengine, I aliliambia bunge wizara yake inakusudia kuleta marekebisho ya sheria hiyo katika kikao kingine cha bunge . Labda bunge la mwenzi wa kumi na moja mwaka huu au Mwakani /( emphasis is mine)

    Ok Hoja yako nyingine, kuhusu matokeo, nikweli I am not sure about the statistic kama ulivyotoa wewe 270 kufeli kwa 35 Kufaulu lakini ninachokifahamu ni kwamba, kuna makundi matatu, Kundi A Waliofaulu namba inakaribiana na ulitosema wewe 30s Kundi B wanasupplimentaries and Kundi C walio fail .

    Generally, ni kweli kwamba waliofaulu ni wachache mno kama ninaweza kuweka katika asilimia maybe around 11.6 % wamefaulu (35 kama statistic zako zitakuwa ziko sawa) na wenye supplimentaries 73.3 % na waliofail 15 %, kwa lugha nyingine wenye supplimentaries na waliofail unaweza ukawaweka kwenye kundi moja because ili tuwe na makundi mawili waliofaulu 11.6 % na waliofail 88.3 % . Lazima niseme statistic zinawezazisiwe sahihi 100 % lakini no big difference either hata data kamili zikiletwa sasa basi ili tuwezekujadili, nimeamua kuweka hivyo. Now kama Law school ni Mpango wa kuboresha sekta ya sheria je kwa sasa tunaweza kusema nini baada ya matokeo kuwa mabaya hiyo ?

    Swali lako kwamba tatizo ni nini is any issue ambayo kwayo hata mimi bado sijapata majibu yake? Please let us discuss.

    Ok wanafunzi wa law school ni kweli wanafanya mitihani ya theory asilimia kubwa na practical asilimia kidogo sana > Swali ni kwamba kwanini wakati shule ni ya practical training kama ulivyosema kwa uhakika hapo juu.

    Mimi sasa, kutokana na point yako ya kwanini wanafanya mtihani ya theory ndio swali lingine kubwa la kujiuliza . Please it is also open for discussion .
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2009
  13. l

    lageneral Member

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    Wadau naomba suala la lwa school litetewe kwa nguvu zote.Shule hii ya sheria itawafanya wahitimu kuwa more practical.Law firms zilizopo nchini zinaweza kutumika kusaidia gharama za kuwasomesha vijana hawa.
     
  14. Mdau

    Mdau JF-Expert Member

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    wadau, nini kinaendelea about Law School??
     
  15. Mdau

    Mdau JF-Expert Member

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  16. Ngambo Ngali

    Ngambo Ngali JF-Expert Member

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    Kibori ufafanuzi wako na mchango wako nimeupenda sana, lakini suala la Law School ni mfano halisi wa Watanzania tulivyo, Zima moto. Law School kama concept ni kitu kizuri sana na hakingeweza kuepukika. Ukiwa na vyuo vinavyotoa law graduates zaidi ya 1500 kwa mwaka na ukawa na mawakili Tanzania nzima 600, wanafunzi watapata wapi sehemu ya kufanya practicals? Umuhimu wa law school unakuja hapa kwamba angalau graduates wote wapate practical na proffessional training.

    Swali la Pili kwa nini bodi ya mikopo inakataa kutoa mikopo kwa wanafunzi wa Law school? Ona madaktari wakiwa internship wanalipwa na tukumbuke kuwa wakati ule wa internship ya sheria graduates walikuwa wanaitwa state attorney trainees na walikuwa wanalipwa na wizara ye sheria. Kwa nini hivi sasa wasilipwe kwani ni sehemu muhimu katika kupata digrii ya sheria. Angalau mshahara huo ungewafanya waweze angala kulipia ada. Alternatives ziko mbili kuwaajiri kama trainees au bodi itoe mkopo inabidi zifanyiwe kazi na serikali.

    Serikali nadhani inaona kuwa wanafunzi wa sheria ni mzigo ndio maana katika miaka miwili tu ya sheria hiyo inaleta mabadiliko ya kifungu cha sheria kuwa sio lazima kuajiri mtu ambaye hajapitia Law school. Overall effect yake ni nini ni kuwa serikali na institutions nyingine ( ambazo zitafuata wimbo wa wizara ya sheria) zitaajiri watu ambao sio well trained na athari zake tutaziona kwenye negotiations na kutayarisha mikataba.

    Mpaka sasa sio rahisi kuwa na full practical training ukichukulia idadi ya graduates na law firms zilizopo ndio maana muda mwingi wanatumia darasani Hata hivyo masomo wanayosoma ni practically oriented na proffessionally based.Tofauti na wanavyosoma chuoni ambavyo ni purely academic.

    Tufanye nini? Serikali ieleweshwe kuwa kumaliza LLB peke yake haisaidii kwani graduate hataweza kupractise law in strict sense, na ili upractise ni lazima upitie Law school, hivyo basi Bodi ya mikopo ilazimishwe kutoa mikopo kwa wanafunzi wote wa Law school. Na serikali iache ngonjera za kisiasa Law school is a necessary institutions for lawyers ambao wengine ndio hao hao watakuwa serikalini kama future AG, parliamentary draftsmen, DPPs etc.
     
  17. Mdau

    Mdau JF-Expert Member

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    cohort ya 6,ni vijana 48 tu ndo wameambiwa wapo eligible kupata mkopo wa serikali.....wadau mpo hapo?
     
  18. m

    markitronald New Member

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  19. Mdau

    Mdau JF-Expert Member

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    taratiiiibu Law Skul inaanza kuwa Private....mtoto wa mkulima kuwa advocate itakua ndoto, cohort ya 6/7 vijana wamelipa..
     
  20. H

    Hofstede JF-Expert Member

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    Kwani ni lazima kila anayepata degree ya sheria kuwa wakili wa kujitegemea?. Mfano mzuri angalieni NBAA, si lazima wote wanaopata degree ya uhasibu kuwa na CPA. Ndiyo maana kati ya watahiniwa 2000 wanapita around 50 tu kila mwaka. Tunapokuwa na mawakili wengi wakati kazi hakuna ni kuiingiza nchi kwenye matatizo.

    Rais wetu mpendwa aliishasema kupitia kwa Seif Khatib kuwa Taifa likiwa na wasomi wengi wengi wenye degree wakati kazi hakuna basi ni kuhatarisha usalama wa nchi, vivyohivyo kwa upande wa mawakili. Hasa watawala watakuwa kwenye hard time wakati wao wapo pale ku-enjoy the titles. Huu muswada uacheni upite maana ndiyo usalama wa watawala. Mkiisha jazana ma-advocate maana yake ni kwamba kazi itakuwa hailipi tena. Itakuwa kama wapiga debe vile wapo weeengiii kwanagombea daladala chache matokeo yake ni kupigana bisibisi za kwenye moyo wenyewe kwa wenyewe.

    Mkitaka mabadiliko Kura yako Dr. Slaa
     
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