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Labels: Is it out of ignorance?

Discussion in 'Habari na Hoja mchanganyiko' started by WomanOfSubstance, Jun 1, 2009.

  1. WomanOfSubstance

    WomanOfSubstance JF-Expert Member

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    Many a times we hear people say " she is a feminist".... "that feminist is on it again!"
    Do we understand what Feminism is? It is not just women who support this movement, men do support it too. Therefore it is not a sin to support this discourse and thinking.

    My question is "Is it helpful to label anyone a "feminist"?
    Lets discuss ladies and gents.
     
  2. M

    MzalendoHalisi JF-Expert Member

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    1. What I dont want is the lecture: from West of how we should love our African women..as if we dont love them enough!

    Yaani mimi linanikera..utadhani wenyewe wana moral authority kutufundisha love!

    2. Hivi ni watu gani wanashabikia na kuunga mkono femeninism? Is this African?
     
  3. WomanOfSubstance

    WomanOfSubstance JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu,
    its not about love... its about appreciating the difference but respecting each other and acknowledging that much as we are different we are equal as human beings.Dont confuse this with radicalism which may not fit as is the case with any fundamentalist discourse.
     
  4. Nkamangi

    Nkamangi JF-Expert Member

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    Women should respect themselves before expecting respect from others. The power to change negative perceptions about us is within us, ignore the name calling
     
  5. Bluray

    Bluray JF-Expert Member

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    If feminist are unashamedly so, proud of their cause, consider it just, take ownership, set their own agendas and are educated enough about what it entails to be a feminist, then it is not only right and helpful for them to be known as such, it is their privilege to wear the badge of their cause.

    I mean gay people have gay pride despite the massive homophobia they experience, arguably graver than anti-feminism, so why not feminist.

    To me, shunning the "feminist" label tells me one is ashamed of that movement.And the word "feminist" should be a compliment, rather than an insult.

    But the trouble is, so many anti-establishment and anti-male (not even anti-cahauvinists) camps are lashing for the wrong reason and using means quite different from authentic feminism -which understand the harmony of nature- by using the name of feminism.

    It is like all the stuck up dykes with bad tastes of previous divorces can only use the label of feminism to lash back at the phalanx establishment of "A Man's World". Do we really wanna call these crazy chicks feminists? I can take a lesbian comfortably as a friend and a feminist if she understand the core issues behind feminism, not because she is simply bitter towards men.

    So it seems like there is confusion on who is a real feminist and who is looking to hijack the feminist movement for the simple guilty pleasure of therapeutic lashing back at "The Man"

    Real feminists are quite comfortable with men for example, even when speaking truth to power and recognizing the wrongs that the male establishment has created, fakers want to establish a parallel world for women only.That's how you can tell a real feminist from a cult like follow fashion female monkey.
     
  6. WomanOfSubstance

    WomanOfSubstance JF-Expert Member

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    Fikiria hivi:
    Kama wewe ni mzazi wa kiume na una watoto wa kike na wa kiume.Je utaona hao wa kike ni lesser beings? Je utapenda binti yako adhalilishwe kwa sababu ni binti?

    Je wewe mkaka, utafurahia mama yako akidharauliwa kwa vile ni mwanamke?
     
  7. WomanOfSubstance

    WomanOfSubstance JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu,
    Thanks for highlighting on some of the petinent issues regarding the confusion and the understanding of who feminists are.I appreciate your understanding of the issues, however in order to have a wider participation, I would like us to bring the discussion to a very lower level as opposed to an intellectual discussion.
    For a starter, I would appreciate if you could elucidate on what u mean by "being comfortable with men"?
     
  8. MwanaFalsafa1

    MwanaFalsafa1 JF-Expert Member

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    Can you tell me what is your definition of a feminist. This is because a feminist may mean something different depending on who you ask. If you ask someone he/she might say feminist a women who want to reverse the gender roles and take over men but if you ask another they might say a feminist, be it a man or woman, is one who strives for equality. My definition, correct me if I'm wrong, is that a feminist is one who believes that although man and woman a create different but they are beings of the same level of intelligence and capability. I think what most people confuse is between a feminist and a radical feminist, the latter being a more popular perception.

    I remember reading about the women movement in Great Britain(the suffrage movement) where they thought for women equality. During that period of time women were being treated as second class citizens. The suffrage movement faced opposition not only from men but from women themselves. The suffrages themselves had two factions, the one that made their demands through peaceful means and the radicals. Eventually the peaceful faction of the suffrages gained popularity and they were able to win women the vote and even sits in parliament. Anyway I just though I would give a brief history of a feminist movement I know of.

    So as we can see from the above is that feminist faces two problems
    1.Radical feminism-This a women who believe that women should be the ones in control. this are the ones who don't believe in equality but rather want women to be above men. This a the women who take feminism too far. These women are the ones who wouldn't get married simple because the don't want to be "under" a man. These are the women who don't get pregnant simple because they feel they have to break out of some traditions to prove a point. These are the women who would take their husbands name because they feel it's slavery(although they keep their fathers name so I don't really see how this works out because the man's name still continues). Believe it or not these type of women exist. Some even refrain from even wearing skirts.

    2.Opposition from men & women. Some women think all feminists are radical. These women are all for equal rights but just don't believe that feminism is the right way to go about things(again most people are more familiar with the radical branch of feminism). These are the women who would rather their intelligence and hard work prove their capabilities to men rather than go about feminism. I think some women are even feminist without being feminist in the sense that they don't call themselves so but their ideologies is such that they are. Then of coarse their are those men who just think that men are above women. This men are sexist and are just as bad as racist.

    So from all of this I don't think most people have a problem with feminism but have a problem with radical feminism. They have are problem with those that take things too far. I think radical feminist are the ones who give the whole concept of feminism a bad name. As we all know it's human nature to judge a whole group from the actions of the few. This is why some people think radical feminism is what feminism is. But also we have to know that any movement trying to break the norm might be viewed as radical. The civil movement in America was thought to be radical by some at that time.

    I think what we need is women like you WoS to preach the true gospel of what feminism really is so that anyone with misconceptions can gradually change their minds. Changing the perception of people takes time. Heck there are people who are still racist until today and they will continue to be there. What women like you can do is change the minds of people slowly but surely. You already have a supporter in me because I believe true feminism is important. I have a mother, sisters and a girlfriend and would love them to live in a world of equal opportunities and fairness between the sexes. Sorry for the very long message.


     
  9. Nyani Ngabu

    Nyani Ngabu Platinum Member

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    No long dissertations please....just be brief, succint, and to the point. Long winded ramblings are boring
     
  10. Z

    ZeMarcopolo JF-Expert Member

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    Am not sure about the term feminist but in many cases I would call some people ''gendists'' or ''sexists'' for their association of everything that happens with genda!
     
  11. Z

    ZeMarcopolo JF-Expert Member

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    And to my surprise the gender obsession is mostly in Africa! look at our MPs coming up with unthinkable idea that the next house MUST comprise 50% from each sex!
     
  12. Z

    ZeMarcopolo JF-Expert Member

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    Look at what women who we expected to set example are doing, the wasomi ones. We have chama cha madaktari then chama cha madaktari wanawake, chama cha waandishi wa habari then chama cha waandishi wa habari wanawake and so on. c'mon what is this? is this to say our ladies can not function in presence of men???why always finding all-women platforms? These wasomi were to show positive examples, but unfortunately they not leading the way!
     
  13. Z

    ZeMarcopolo JF-Expert Member

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    I repeat I dont call them feminists but gendists and they deserve the label.
     
  14. Z

    ZeMarcopolo JF-Expert Member

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    I am waiting to see chama cha waalimu wanawake, au kimeshaanzishwa tayari?
     
  15. WomanOfSubstance

    WomanOfSubstance JF-Expert Member

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    Now you are talking Mkuu,
    This is what this feminism thing is all about.Like I had said before ,radical feminism is some form of fundamentalim - an extreme which may not sit well with what most people, including me, believe in.
    Pls continue kutoa darasa hadi kieleweke.
     
  16. TIMING

    TIMING JF-Expert Member

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    WOS,

    Muelewe viruzi Blu-ray its straight forward... je wewe utafurahia babako akidharauliwa?? which is very common nowadays wanasema lione, kama babake lilivyo levi??

    It takes two to tangle

    and because i love you, i want you to open both windows... to feel the breeze

     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2009
  17. M

    Mapinduzi JF-Expert Member

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    Ni wakati sasa wa kuwa na gender equality, kama wanavyoadvocate gender activitists. Kila mtu atumie nafasi ya kupata nafasi yeyote ile iwayo kutokana na ujuzi na uwezo alionao. Kuwe na fair competition based on merits, pasipo kuingiza upendeleo wa kijinsia. Hii ndio inasababisha kuteua watu incompetent just because tunataka kuwe na usawa wa jinsia.

    Wakati wa kuondoa ubunge wa viti maalum nao umefika, sijaona wanachokifanya hao wanawake wanaochaguliwa kwenye hizo special seats. Mwenye uwezo hashindwi.
     
  18. TIMING

    TIMING JF-Expert Member

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    Mwana FA, Thats too long for a person under influence to read, any abstracts in it??
     
  19. Zakumi

    Zakumi JF-Expert Member

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    Na wa-Beijing ni watu gani?
     
  20. WomanOfSubstance

    WomanOfSubstance JF-Expert Member

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    Another confusing dimension to be explored.
    What is gender to you then?
    Gender is the social construction of what it is to be a man and what it is to be a woman - the apportionment of roles and responsibilities - division of labour, behaviour,power relations .It is not universal, it is not static, it is capable of change over time.
     
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