Dismiss Notice
You are browsing this site as a guest. It takes 2 minutes to CREATE AN ACCOUNT and less than 1 minute to LOGIN

Kwanini wanamsakama Waziri Simba - Jaji Werema

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by JokaKuu, Feb 5, 2010.

  1. J

    JokaKuu Platinum Member

    #1
    Feb 5, 2010
    Joined: Jul 31, 2006
    Messages: 10,786
    Likes Received: 994
    Trophy Points: 280
    ..naona Mwanasheria Mkuu Jaji Werema kaamua kununua kesi ya Sophia Simba.

    ..Jaji Werema amesemai:"Kwa nini wanamsakama Waziri Simba, wanisakame mimi siyo Waziri."


     
  2. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

    #2
    Feb 5, 2010
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Messages: 34,583
    Likes Received: 5,634
    Trophy Points: 280
    Unajua tangu mjadala huu unaanza nili risk kwenda against the stream hapa JF, the popular tide being kum bash Sophia Simba.

    Now, that Sophia Simba is an airhead is granted, no debate on that.

    Lakini nilikuwa nasema point hii hii anayoisema AG. Jamani kumpunguzia rais madaraka kuna ubaya gani? Kuondoa dictatorial decree kuna ubaya gani? Hata huyo Julius Ceasar alikuwa na Senate linamcheck ingawa alitaka kuwa dictator.

    Nikaomba kuelimishwa maana sina details za muswada, je kuna mgongano wa katiba? Watu kimya.Dr. Slaa yuko wapi aje kutufafanualia inakuwaje mpinzani akatae rais kupunguziwa madaraka? Hili si ni moja ya maeneo tunayoyapigia kelele kila siku kwamba rais ana madaraka makubwa sana kiasi anakuwa kama kimungu mtu fulani hivi?

    Nimeshukuru sana kwamba Jaji Werema ame own this issue.Mimi napenda sana mtu anayeweza ku step up to the plate na ku take ownership of issues, regardles on whether one is right or wrong, at least tunajua msimamo wa AG, na AG kaichukua hii issue kutoka mikononi mwa Simba (kichekesho ni kwamba AG wetu ni jaji, sasa ikija siku kuna conflict of interest kati ya Judiciary na executive atakuwa pahala pabaya sana, hii nchi ya ajabu kabisa, but that is a totally different animal warranting it's own thread).

    Kwa hiyo nauliza wanaopinga hili baraza fundamenytally (ukiondoa hao wanaodebate number of members, that can always be adjusted) nawauliza, objection inatoka wapi?
     
  3. Regia Mtema

    Regia Mtema R I P

    #3
    Feb 5, 2010
    Joined: Nov 21, 2009
    Messages: 2,975
    Likes Received: 12
    Trophy Points: 0
    Jamaa kakurupuka.
     
  4. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

    #4
    Feb 5, 2010
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Messages: 34,583
    Likes Received: 5,634
    Trophy Points: 280
    "Jamaa kakurupuka" is the height of obscurity.

    Jamaa gani? Werema, Simba, Shellukindo, Sitta, Diallo, Malecela, Kiranga? Nani?

    Kakurupuka kwa nini? Kivipi? Wapi? Kwa sababu gani unasema hivyo?

    Angalia isije kuwa wewe ndiye unayekurupuka.
     
  5. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

    #5
    Feb 5, 2010
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Messages: 34,583
    Likes Received: 5,634
    Trophy Points: 280
    For the United States, Article One, Section Eight of the Constitution says "Congress shall have power to ... declare War".

    Wamarekani wana compromise iliyo workable kati ya the need for a speedy declaration of war if needes and the checks and balances of a national security council / congress.

    [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States[/ame]

    Huyu Hamad anajisemea tu.
     
  6. J

    JokaKuu Platinum Member

    #6
    Feb 5, 2010
    Joined: Jul 31, 2006
    Messages: 10,786
    Likes Received: 994
    Trophy Points: 280
    Kiranga,

    ..kuna mahali Jaji Werema amedai kwamba Baraza la Usalama lipo, na linafanya kazi, tatizo halitambuliwi kisheria.

    ..nadhani huyu Mwanasheria Mkuu amekomaa na nimekuwa impressed na jinsi anavyoitetea hoja yake. katika kuchangia hoja hii tunapaswa kuangalia beyond mtoa hoja, ambaye ni Waziri Sophia Simba.
     
  7. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

    #7
    Feb 5, 2010
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Messages: 34,583
    Likes Received: 5,634
    Trophy Points: 280
    This is exactly what I am talking about. Kuna tendency ya ku-dumb down issues, let's deal with the fundamentals. Kuna tatizo gani kumpunguzia rais madaraka na kuondokana na udikteta?

    Siku Tanzania ikipata mtu kichaa aliyejua kuficha makucha yake through the process of uchaguzi, halafu akawa rais mpenda vita zisizo adabu, tutamzuia vipi?
     
  8. SMU

    SMU JF-Expert Member

    #8
    Feb 5, 2010
    Joined: Feb 14, 2008
    Messages: 7,008
    Likes Received: 862
    Trophy Points: 280
    Hiyo ndio demokrasia. Waziri ni lazima aweze kuwashawishi wabunge juu ya kile anachakusudia kiwe sheria. Haya anayoyasema AG alipaswa amshauri/fundishe waziri ili aweze kuutetea muswada wake. Kusemea huku nje wakati waziri ameshaboronga hakusaidii sana.
     
  9. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

    #9
    Feb 5, 2010
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Messages: 34,583
    Likes Received: 5,634
    Trophy Points: 280
    Waziri so far anachodaiwa kuboronga ni kushindwa kutetea hoja.

    Na waziri, despite kuwa airhead, hata kama angekuwa smart angekuwa na wakati mgumu kuutetea huu muswada. Let's face it, serikali ya Kikwete haiko enthusiastic kuhusu muswada huu.Muswada huu umetoka kwa AG, na hapa ndipo point yangu ya kwamba hizi appointments za Kikwete zinachekesha, kwa sababu inaonekana AG amekuja anafikiria legally zaidi ya politically.Basically tushukuru kwamba haya mambo yame work out in a serendipitous way.

    Nasema Simba alikuwa na wakati mgumu kuutetea muswada huu kwa sababu hata angekuwa smart, fundamentally jinsi ya kuutetea muswada huu ni kusema kwamba rais ana mamlaka makubwa na sasa imefika wakati tuyapunguze.That is a very tricky statement kwa waziri wa Kikwete ku make kwa sababu inaweza ku open a can of worms.Ndiyo maana sishangai kwa waziri Simba kushindwa kuutetea muswada huu, kwa sababu hata mtu smart angepata shida.

    Hapa, katika nchi inayoelewa checks and balances, wabunge walitakiwa kufurahi kwamba nguvu za kichwa cha mhimili wa executive zinapunguzwa na kuwa diluted kwa watu wengine.Lakini sisi hatuna bunge linalofuata checks and balances, sisi tuna bunge la party politics, na watu wanamuangalia rais si kama rais tu, bali pia kama mwenyekiti wa CCM, kwa hiyo kumpunguzia nguvu rais ni kuipunguzia nguvu rais, acheni rais awe demi god, CCM itakuwa chama cha demigods.Ndivyo tunavyofikiria.

    Which puts Slaa in a very bad position.Kwa kujua yote haya, kwa nini na yeye ana support utumbo huu wa kukataa rais kupunguziwa madaraka? Is he trying to pull a Mrema?
     
  10. SMU

    SMU JF-Expert Member

    #10
    Feb 5, 2010
    Joined: Feb 14, 2008
    Messages: 7,008
    Likes Received: 862
    Trophy Points: 280
    Nimekuelewa Kiranga.

    Lakini huu muswada sio mara ya kwanza unakwama bungeni. Mimi naamini baraza la mawaziri chini ya uwenyekiti Rais linaufahamu hivyo sion huo ugumu wa waziri kuutetea ungetokea wapi.

    Unless kama hiyo understanding yangu ya kwamba baraza la mawaziri including Rais walikuwa aware na muswada huo haiko sahihi.
     
  11. Rufiji

    Rufiji JF-Expert Member

    #11
    Feb 5, 2010
    Joined: Jun 18, 2006
    Messages: 1,592
    Likes Received: 6
    Trophy Points: 135
    Attorney general ought to be commended for his decision to come forward, amid members of parliament's uproar in the proposed bill, and call it for what it is – a spade a spade. I agree with him our constitution must be amended in order to bring check and balance in the office of the president. It is important to understand that just like other human beings, presidents are also flawed. Consequently, we must create a mechanism that will ensure that our president doesn't abuse his/her power. Wahenga once said, " power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."
     
  12. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

    #12
    Feb 5, 2010
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Messages: 34,583
    Likes Received: 5,634
    Trophy Points: 280
    Of course baraza la mawaziri linaujua huu muswada. Lakini inaonekana kama muswada huu unakuwa forced upon them kutoka kwa wasomi wa judiciary. Na katika pluses ninazoweza kumpa Kikwete, whether as some sheer Machiavellian calculations or genuine benevolence, ni hii ya kutokuwa kichwa kigumu kwenye mambo kama haya, in some ways ananikumbusha rais Mwinyi. Siwezi ku-picture mtu kama Mkapa akubali muswada huu ufike hata bungeni kirahisi rahisi hivi. Labda calculations za Kikwete zinamwambia auachie muswada huu uende bungeni akijua ana watu wake bungeni watakaoupinga vikali, hivyo Kikwete at the end of the day ataonekana benevolent, kwamba anaruhusu mabadiliko radical, lakini hapo hapo atakuwa na uhakika wa kutolipa gharama ya kuondolea madaraka.

    Sasa hapa AG Werema inabidi aende very carefully, kwa sababu Tanzania hushindi argument kwa logic na kuwa na scholastic points, unashinda argument kwa politics hata kama ni upupu, unamsikia Shellukindo anakwambia "Nyerere alitanmgaza vita alihitaji baraza gani?" yaani jamaa anakuwa haelewi ile point ya AG kwamba tusitegemee kila uchaguzi tutapata rais kama Nyerere, anaweza kuibuka mchizi hapa akaleta vita watu tukashangaa.

    Uki i over analyze hii, unaweza kuona kama vile CCM inaanza kukubali pole pole kwamba haiwezi kuwa madarakani daima, na siku moja upinzani utaweza kuja kuchukua Ikulu, sasa ni bora waanze kumpunguzia madaraka rais pole pole ili isije kuwa mtu kama Mtikila anachukua urais halafu anawatia jela politburo nzima ya CCM kwa uhaini. But that (the last para) could just be my over-analysis.
     
  13. Anyisile Obheli

    Anyisile Obheli JF-Expert Member

    #13
    Feb 5, 2010
    Joined: Dec 13, 2009
    Messages: 3,294
    Likes Received: 8
    Trophy Points: 135
    hebu wewe naye unanichefua na kiswa nglish naamini tuna uwezo hata wa kuelewa hiyo lugha ya kigeni japo kwa asilimia 40% hivyo chagua lugha katika mchango wako wa mawazo ya kutumia kama ni kiswahili au Kiingereza siyo unachanganya changanya mambo hapa ebo!!
    siyo, you know mimi nilikuwa nadhani amen forget aaaaaa! hiyo ni nini sasa????????
     
  14. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

    #14
    Feb 5, 2010
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Messages: 34,583
    Likes Received: 5,634
    Trophy Points: 280
    Usinichafue nianze kukuingizia legal terms za kilatini na mifano relevant ya symmetry za siasa na quantum physics hapa.

    Kama ulikimbia umande shauri yako, mimi sijui kiswahili fasaha na wala sijui kiingereza vizuri, kwa hiyo ili kuwasilisha hoja vizuri bila kuumiza kichwa siku nzima napanga cha kuandika kama vile nataka kutoa hotuba baraza la usalama la umoja wa mataifa, nakupa mchanganyiko huu.

    Last time I checked hii haikuwa against JF rules. Lesson A, you can't bully a bully.

    Kama huwezi/ hutaki kusoma niweke katika ignore list yako.
     
  15. BAK

    BAK JF-Expert Member

    #15
    Feb 5, 2010
    Joined: Feb 11, 2007
    Messages: 50,074
    Likes Received: 9,781
    Trophy Points: 280
    Huyu naye! Ndiyo wale wale wa kufuata mstari wa Serikali bila kutafakari kwa kina.
     
  16. Kiranga

    Kiranga JF-Expert Member

    #16
    Feb 5, 2010
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Messages: 34,583
    Likes Received: 5,634
    Trophy Points: 280
    Ukiielewa hii issue kiundani, huwezi kusema Jaji Werema anafuata mstari wa serikali.

    Hapa kuna ana apparent picture - AG kutetea muswada wa serikali ni kufuata line ya serikali- halafu kuna a deeper picture iliyo real, kwamba kiukweli serikali haitaki muswada huu upite.

    Sasa usitake kufanya sarakasi za bunge la CCM zikuzuge ukafikiri apparent picture ndiyo real picture.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. M

    Mapinduzi JF-Expert Member

    #17
    Feb 5, 2010
    Joined: Aug 23, 2008
    Messages: 2,427
    Likes Received: 8
    Trophy Points: 0
    Kipengele kilichofanya huo muswada ukawa objected sio kumpunguzia rais madaraka pekee.

    Pamoja na mambo mengine, kuna issue ya confidentiality kwenye hilo proposed baraza la usalama. Ni kubwa utadhani mkutano wa hadhara au kikao cha bunge. They need to brainstorm who the must be-s in that baraza.

    By they way I second kwamba huo muswada mzima ungepatikana ungekata mzizi wa fitina.

    In general, Sophia kachemsha. Kama angekuwa anauelewa huo muswada vizuri angeusimamia na kujibu zile hoja properly. Kushindwa kwake kufanya hivyo ndiko kumepelekea muswada kupigwa chini.

    Kwa mfano, ameshindwa hata kutetea hiyo hoja ya kwa nini Rais apunguziwe madaraka. Amedhihirisha kwamba alikuwa desa one-to-one au alikariri tu, au hakuusoma kabisa. Na kama ni kutaka check and balances ziwepo kwenye madaraka, basi mhusika wa kwanza ni yeye Sophia Simba.
     
  18. BAK

    BAK JF-Expert Member

    #18
    Feb 5, 2010
    Joined: Feb 11, 2007
    Messages: 50,074
    Likes Received: 9,781
    Trophy Points: 280
    Werema kupewa hiyo nafasi hakulazimishwa kufuata mstari wa Serikali kila siku iendayo kwa Mungu siku nyingine kwa kutumia utaalam wake katika mambo ya sheria anatakiwa kuwa mkweli na kusema hapa tumevurunda ngoja turekebishe, labda ndiyo katika kutetea kitumbua chake wasikimwagie nchanga (isomeke mchanga)
     
  19. M

    Mapinduzi JF-Expert Member

    #19
    Feb 5, 2010
    Joined: Aug 23, 2008
    Messages: 2,427
    Likes Received: 8
    Trophy Points: 0
    Na aliyasema atafanya hivyo alipohojiwa na waandishi wa habari mara baada ya kuapishwa.
     
  20. J

    JokaKuu Platinum Member

    #20
    Feb 5, 2010
    Joined: Jul 31, 2006
    Messages: 10,786
    Likes Received: 994
    Trophy Points: 280


    Ama,

    ..lakini hata walioupinga mswaada huu wameshindwa kuielewa dhana nzima ya kumpunguzia madaraka Raisi. some of them have rubbished the entire bill, and claim that is something so absurd, they have never seen such a thing in their entire political life.

    ..Mwanasheria Mkuu amekuwa quoted akisema kwamba,Baraza la Usalama lipo na linafanya kazi, tatizo ni kwamba halipo pale kwa mujibu wa Sheria. sasa hawa waliopinga mswaada huu ina maana hawana habari na taarifa hizo? unless wadai kwamba baraza la usalama la sasa hivi si kubwa kama hilo lililopendekezwa ktk muswada.

    ..at the end of the day, Mbunge hapaswi kuupinga/kuunga mkono mswaada kwa kutegemea umahiri wa Waziri anayewasilisha mswaada bungeni. Wabunge nao wanapaswa kuusoma na kuutafakari mswaada kabla ya kuukubali au kuupinga.
     
Loading...