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Kuna ubaya gani Zanzibar ikajitenga na kuwa huru kama Zamani?

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by mzaramo, Feb 1, 2010.

  1. m

    mzaramo JF-Expert Member

    #1
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    Muungano ni kama ndoa

    -Zanzibar ilikuwa huru kabla ya Muungano

    -Tanganyika pia ilikuwa haijaungana na ncho yoyote

    -Nyerere na Karume (bila ridhaa ya wananchi waliokuwa wakiwatawala) wakaona bora waunganishe nchi hizi mbili

    -Huku Memorandum za Muungano zikafishwa na imefika mahala kosa kuziulizia

    -Muungano umelega lega na malalamiko (hasa from visiwani kuwa uko one sided) while on the other hand Bara wanaona Zanzibar wanaishi kwa INCOME SUPPORT za wa Bara hivyo ni mzigo

    -Sasa kama imeshindikana kwani kuna ubaya gani Muungano ukavunjwa na kima mmoja akarudi kuwa na nchi yake bila kuingiliana?

    Ohhh jambo lingine

    Je ni kweli BARA ndio wanaoungangania huu Muungano wakati VISIWANI hawana hawautaki?

    Apparently kwenye mitaa ya huko visiwani kuna habari kuwa WAZANZIBARI be if CUF au CCM WANA one thing in common: HAWAUTAKI MUUNGANO lakini its politocally incorrect kusema live lakini ukweli ni kuwa wao hawautaki


    kwa nini tusiwaache na visiwa vyao?
     
  2. Buchanan

    Buchanan JF Diamond Member

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    Huu ni uchochezi na ubaguzi! Shame on you!
     
  3. MrFroasty

    MrFroasty JF-Expert Member

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    Mimi kama mzanzibari naunga mkono hoja yoyote ya kuvunja muungano.Na sioni cha kulaumu kutokana na kuwa nimeshastahamili kwa muda wa miaka takriban 40 bila ya kuona tunda lolote la muungano.

    Muungano ni expensive agenda ambayo kwa ufupi nchi za chini ya jangwa la sahara hatujafikia hatua ya kufanya muungano.Tuna matatizo ambayo ni basic kwa raia wetu kama maji, umeme, chakula n.k Hivyo hatuna nyenzo za kuresolve complexity ya muungano.

    Pili mimi kama mzanzibari nathamini sana utaifa wangu (licha ya umasikini uliolizonga taifa la Zanzibar) si rahisi kukubali kufuta utambulisho wangu na kuniambia nijitambulishe kwa utaifa mwengine.Hii pengine kama tungelikuwa na nyenzo za kuresolve union problems lingeweza kuwa fixed...lakini hoja ya mwanzo nyenzo hizo hatunazo.Zipo nchi kama UK, bado watu wanaendelea kujitambulisha na nchi zao Ireland, Scotland etc

    Tatu kuleta amani na utulivu ndani ya nchi.Naamini kabisa kuendelea kulazimisha wazanzibari wabakie ndani ya muungano kunaweza kusababisha vurugu na kuzorotesha kila kitu.

    Watanzania tuna mambo mengi ya kufikiria katika kujiletea maendeleo hatuna muda wa kupoteza na kuunguza vichwa ni jinsi gani tutarekebisha matatizo ya muungano....simple and cheap solution ni kuvunja na kuiacha Zanzibar na Tanganyika zikawa kama mataifa huria.

    N.K
     
  4. MrFroasty

    MrFroasty JF-Expert Member

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    Kivipi kutoa maoni ya kuvunja muungano ni uchochezi na ubaguzi?
     
  5. Mwalimu

    Mwalimu JF-Expert Member

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    Sasa nani anawazuia kujitenga?
     
  6. MrFroasty

    MrFroasty JF-Expert Member

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    You are kidding right? :confused:
     
  7. Mwalimu

    Mwalimu JF-Expert Member

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    No am not....
     
  8. m

    mohamedsaidi New Member

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    hakuna ubaya wowote. tanganyika itaendelea bila zanzibar. ni afadhali ifanyike kura za maoni pande zote halafu matokeo yafuatwe. baada ya hapa. matatizo mengi yaliyopo yatapotea.
     
  9. M

    Mdondoaji JF-Expert Member

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    Anayetuzuia kamuulize Kikwete atakupa jibu.
     
  10. ngoshwe

    ngoshwe JF-Expert Member

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    Wewe ni nani "MZANZIBARI, au MTANZANIA?

    Kama ni MZANZIBARI, huoni upo nje ya MUUNGANO?...

    Haya mataifa (Zanzibar na Tanganyika)yalikwisha kuwa huru miaka 40 iliyopita mzee, muungano hayafanyi yasiwe huru. Kikatiba Zaanzibar ni huru zaidi kwakuwa ina Serikali yake ila Tanganyika haipo kabisa imemezwa na "Jamhuri ya Muungano " na hilo ndilo linatufanya Kimataifa tuwe "WATANZANIA" na sio "WATANGANYIKA WALA "WAZANZIBARI". Hakuna pasi ya "UZANZIBARI"popote duniani

    Ukianza " MIMI KAMA UZANZIBARI, ...badae utakuja na "MIMI KAMA MPemba", "MIMI KAMA MWislamu" MIMI KAMA MSHIA, "MIMI KAMA CUF"," MIMI KAMA Mngazija" MIMI KAMA BABA FULANI NA MWANAUME, nk nk mpaka MIMI KAMA MrFroasty"
     
  11. Mwalimu

    Mwalimu JF-Expert Member

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    Mmeanza kumsingizia JK sasa...kaazi kweli kweli!
     
  12. M

    Mdondoaji JF-Expert Member

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    Let me ask you one question mlijaribu ikatokea hivyo???? Kwanini mnaingiza phobia ya ugozi wakati kimtazamo wangu haipo kwa sasa hivi. Haya mambo yalikuwapo wakati wa akina nyerere na mwinyi but sio sasa.

    Sasa hivi mpemba ameolewa na mngazija, mkristo kaolewa na muislamu (wengine tunao ndani ya familia zetu), muhindi ameolewa mtu mweusi tiii (muulize naibu waziri wa utamaduni na michezo (Mh M. Thabit Kombo) mzee wake mmoja nani?). Hiyo ndio zanzibar ya leo mchanganyiko hakuna tena that business ya ubaguzi so why not try now halafu muone????
     
  13. M

    Mdondoaji JF-Expert Member

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    Tumemuingiza Kikwete kwasababu analifahamu hilo fika na limo ndani ya ilani yao CCM kuwa zanzibar should remain there inside the Tanzania union government. Why? waulize watu wa nec watakuambia.

    Niliwahi kuattend kikao kimoja cha CCM wakati wa mwafaka wa mwanzo nikamsikia mjumbe mmoja toka znz anasema wakilegeza msimamo wa CCM zanzibar wazee wao watabiruka makaburini. Nikamuuliza kiutani unamaanisha nini akanijibu inaweza kuja mahakama ya kimataifa znz kwani kuna alot of genocide cases. Haraka haraka nikajuuliza genocide case zimetokea wapi nikakuta yale mapinduzi matukufu.

    CCM wanatumia siasa ubaguzi kuendeleza utawala znz which is not good kwasababu inafika time watu wanachoka, umaskini umetapakaa znz, ukikaa pale jos corner (kwa wale wanaoifahamu znz vizuri) au pale msikiti jibril haipiti dakika 20 mtu anakuomba nauli au pesa mfukoni sasa hao ni waungwana, watakuja wale wasiokuomba kabisa wakakukaba njiani sijui itakuwaje mwenyezi mungu atusitiri.
     
  14. MrFroasty

    MrFroasty JF-Expert Member

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    Mimi ni mzanzibari na wala moyoni kwangu sijawahi kujitambulisha kama mtanzania....utanzania wangu ni wa kulazimishwa kwenye makaratasi ya kijani kibichi tuu...if thats what you want to hear from me.

    I am expecting you to respect the decisions I made as they come naturally in my blood...with no external or international pressure :D
     
  15. u

    under_age JF-Expert Member

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    sio rahisi kama unavyofikiria, kumbuka nchi yetu inaongozwa na ilani ya ccm (the so called katiba) na ccm makao makuu yake ni dodoma , na ukigusia muungano unaambiwa KATIBA ITAKUSHUGHULIKIA (kumbuka yaliompata jumbe).In a reality, majority ya wazanzibari hawautaki muungano ,lakini wanataka aidha urekebishwe au uvunjwe in a peaceful way. Hii kuskia kero za muungano ,mafuta,samaki wa magufuli ,serikali ya mseto e.t.c zote ni bridge za kisiasa kuelekea kuikomboa zanzibar kutokana na huu muungano bogus! yes i said it "bogus"
     
  16. simplemind

    simplemind JF-Expert Member

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    Swali la Zanzibar kujitenga naona halina mantiki/tija yeyote, sana sana nahofia itakuza instability characterizing small island nations-Mfano Haiti,Ngazija.Malagasy etc.Probably solution ya kumanage diversity na vi difference vidogogo ni some form of federation kati ya Tanganyika na Zanzibar au with the wider East Africa Region.Tuache mitazamo finyu na self deafeating attitudes/We must be students of philosophy of optimism /i.e everything is for the best in this best of all posssible worlds.We only need to improve on what we got.
     
  17. ngoshwe

    ngoshwe JF-Expert Member

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    Kama hivyo ndivyo ilivyo basi tambua haya:

    1. Muungano wa Srertikali ya Jamhuri ya Watu wa Tanganyika na ile ya Mapinduzi ya Zanzibar haukuletwa na Chama cha Mapinduzi au Kijani kibichi as on your words. Mwaka 1964, Chama kilichofanya mapinduzi kwa Upande wa Zaanzibar (ASP) ndiyo kilichoridhia kuungana na Tanzanyika kwa kuona manufaa ya Kuunganisha nchi.
    1. ASP imekuwepo Visiwani kama chama Tawala, chini ya Serikali huru ya Mapinduzi ya Zanzibar mpaka 1977 iliporidhia tena kuungana na TANU kwa upande wa bara ili kupata Chama kimoja ambacho kwa heshima kubwa ya kuendelea kuyaenzi Mapinduzi yaliyoletea uhuru kwa wa Zanzibar, chama hicho kikaitwa "CHAMA CHA MAPINDUZI" . Ikumbukwe kuwa Bara hakukuwa na Mapinduzi, hivyo hata jina la chama lingewezwa kupingwa na waasisi wa chama hicho.
    2. Muungano haujaiondolea Zanzibar maamuzi ya kiserikali na utawala na wala hakuna popote hilo katika katiba ya Jamhuri ya Muungano wa Tanzania (Labda tuseme imeondoa mamlaka ya kuwa na Serikali ya Tanganyika na Taifa la Tanganyika).
    3. Yale ambayo yanatajwa kwenye "Artcles of Union" na Katiba ya Jamhuri ya Muungano kuwa ni mambo ya Muungano ni yale ambayo ASP iliyaona yanastahili kuwa hivyo na kuyaweka chini ya mashirikinao ya pamoja ya Serikali ya Jamhuri (hakukuwa na shinikizo lolote).
    4. Uzanzibar upo na utaendelea kuwepo Kikatiba kwa maana ya kuwepo kwa Mkoa huru na Serikali huru ya Mapinduzi ya Zanzibar. Hata hivyo, kwa kuwa Uzanzibar kama ulivyo "Uchaga", Unyamwezi, nk sio "Urai" kwa mujibu wa "Mambo ya Muungano, huwezi kutambulika hivyo kimataifa kuwa "WEWE NI MZANZIBARI" bali ni "MTANZANIA MWENYE ASILI YA ZANZIBARI"....
    Tazama haya pia:
     
  18. m

    mzaramo JF-Expert Member

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    hivi kwa nini wa BARA mnautaka sana huu Muungano?

    whats so special na kuwafanya wa VISIWANI wakajiona kama vile maSLAVES?
     
  19. M

    Mdondoaji JF-Expert Member

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    Optimistic inakuja tu pale inapokuwa we are at the same level of understanding. Ishu inakuja vipi zanzibar whenever someone ask the identity of zanzibar kuna mtu anakuja na negative views za eti haiwezekani wao kujitawala kwasababu eti watabaguana (to me this is a narrow view) cha msingi kwanza watoe demokrasia kwa zanzibar ipatikane serikali iliyochaguliwa na wananchi (na sio CCM Butiama au CCM dodoma). Pili ikishachaguliwa serikali ya wananchi mawazo ya wananchi yatawakilishwa na waliowachagua na hapo ndipo tutapata solution ya muungano. Otherwise mie nadhani wazanzibari wana haki ya kudai nchi yao na sie tukabakia na Tanganyika yetu.
     
  20. M

    Mdondoaji JF-Expert Member

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    Swali zuri sana
     
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