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Kuna tatizo katika kanuni za somo la hisabati!!!!!

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Elimu (Education Forum)' started by Malyenge, Apr 22, 2012.

  1. M

    Malyenge JF-Expert Member

    #1
    Apr 22, 2012
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    Wakuu naanza kwa kuwasalimu salaam.
    Leo nimeonelea niwaletee hili swala la kanuni za somo la hisabati. Sitaongelea kanuni zote, bali nataka kuongelea kanuni moja tu ya kuzidisha. Kwa kawaida ukichua machungwa manane ukayazidisha mara mbili jibu utapata machungwa kumi na sita. nakadhalika na kadhalika.
    Tatizo langu liko kwenye ile kanuni inayosema "namba yoyote ukizidisha kwa sifuri jibu ni sifuri...." Mfano una machungwa manane ukayazidisha na sifuri (yaani hukuyazidisha na idadi au kitu chochote) jibu (kwa mujibu wa kanuni hapo juu ni kuwa) hakuna machungwa!!!! Hii si kweli kwa akili za kawaida. Mimi nakubaliana na kanuni kwamba namba yoyote ukiiongeza na sifuri jibu ni namba yenyewe. Lakini kwa nini 8 (nane) ikizidishwa na 0 (sifuri) jibu lake liwe sifuri?? Ukiangalia kanuni ya hesabu za "logarithm" tunaona kwamba kinyume cha kuzidisha ni kujumlisha. Hivyo kwa kutumia kanuni ya logarithm (kinyume cha kujumlisha na kuzidisha), tunategemea ya kuwa 8x0= 8 kama ilivyo kwa 8+0= 8!!!
    Nawaomba wanahisabati wote wale waliobobea na hata wale wa kawaida tujadili. Lengo ni kujaribu kuondoa dhana ya elimu inayotelewa hapa duniani kwa sasa. Kwamba kile elimu inachokifundisha kwa watu hapa duniani katika maisha ya kweli hakitumiki. Tuibadili dunia kutoka mtazamo wa sasa hadi ulimwengu wa uhalisia (real life). Nawasilisha.
    Karibuni wakuu tuchangie.
     
  2. m

    mark mayalla Member

    #2
    Apr 23, 2012
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    naam, nimekusoma mkuu.. nimejaribu kuichanganua kwa kichwa na nime realize kitu unachokisema.. una machungwa nane na ukayazidisha kwa sifuri iweje upate sifuri??? Je! yale machungwa nane yatakua yamepotelea wapi?? kwa akili za kikawaida machungwa nane ukiyazidisha kwa sifuri ayataongezeka wala kupungua bali yatabaki vile vile, nimekubaliana na hoja yako mkuu
     
  3. Deejay nasmile

    Deejay nasmile JF-Expert Member

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    Apr 23, 2012
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    Hayo machungwa msimalize yote jamani.Nimenyeeni moja!!
     
  4. X-PASTER

    X-PASTER Moderator

    #4
    Apr 23, 2012
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    Kijana una safari ndefu sana ya kujua logic na kanuni za kimahesabu.

    Kwanza kabisa unapaswa uelewe kwamba Sifuri ikikaa nyuma ya namba yoyote 01 inakuwa haina thamani.

    Thamani ya sifuri inaanza kuhesabika tu kama utaongeza nukta kati ya namba au ikikaa mbele ya namba, mfano 0.1 au 10 na kuendelea. Lakini pia unapaswa kuelewa kuwa sifuri hiyo hiyo ikikaa mbele ya namba yoyote ambayo ina nukta (0.10) inakuwa haina thamani pia, kwa sababu sifuri peke yake inamaanisha kuwa icho kitu ni infinity, yaani kimegawanyika mara nyingi kwa idadi isiyokwisha, ndio ikaitwa infinity... yaani haina mwisho.

    Sasa basi tukija kwa swali lako namba 8 au namba yoyote ukizidisha kwa sifuri ni sawa na kusema unazidisha kwa infinity, hesabu ambayo kitaaluma haipo na ukiigawanya kwa 0 ina maana vipande ambavyo utavipata ni vidogo sana kiasi amabcho uwezi kuandika wingi wake ndio infinity, kwa kurahisisha mambo ndio tunasema jibu lake ni sifuri.
    Kinyume cha Kuzidisha ni kugawanya.

    Kinyume cha kujumlisha ni kutoa.

     
  5. Engager

    Engager JF-Expert Member

    #5
    Apr 23, 2012
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    mtazamo wangu ni kwamba, tunaposema lets say 8×3=24 katika hisabati na uhalisia ni kwamba...(chukulia mfano huohuo wa machungwa). unatoka Moro kwenda Dodoma kufuta machungwa. ukaenda trip tatu (3). Trip1 ukachukua machungwa 8. hesabu yako itakuwa machungwa 8 kwa trip moja utakuwa na hayo hayo 8. ie 8×1=8. haya, utakwenda mara(trip) ya pili utachukua nane. ukiongeza kwenye stock ya mwanzo yatakuwa 16. ie 8×2=16. utakwenda tena mara ya tatu utaleta mchungwa 8, utaongeza kwenye yale 16 yatakuwa 24. kwa hyo tunasema umefuata safari tatu na kila safari ulileta machungwa 8. kwa hiyo unamachungwA 24. (8×3=24 au 8+8+8=24).
    sasa hebu fikiria. Uko Moro, huna machungwa. Dodoma kuna machungwa mengi tu. sasa unataka ufuate machungwa 8. (kumbuka wakati huo huna mchungwa ila sasa unataka kufuata.) sasa unafuata machungwa 8 mara sifuri. kwa kifupi ni kwamba hujafuta trip yoyote japo ulitaka kufuata matunda8. kwa hiyo utaendelea kuwa huna kitu. ndio maana 8×0=0 au hata 0×3=0; kwamba umekwenda Dodoma safari tatu kufuata machungwa.lakini kila safari uliyoenda hukurudi na kiru (machungwa sifuri). unadhani baada ya safari hzo 3 utakua umekusanya kiasi gani?..........
     
  6. Engager

    Engager JF-Expert Member

    #6
    Apr 23, 2012
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    sifuri sio infinity mkuu.
     
  7. s

    sugi JF-Expert Member

    #7
    Apr 23, 2012
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    How come ?ugawanye kwa sifuri upate vipande vidogo?
     
  8. s

    sugi JF-Expert Member

    #8
    Apr 23, 2012
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    nimekupata mkuu,here we go
    Haya tuanze kuitafuta 8*0=0
    8*1=8 sawa mzee?
    8*0.5=4 ok?
    8*0.25=2 tupo hapo?
    8*0.125=1
    8*0.0625=0.5
    8*0.03125=0.25
    8*0.000001=0.0000008
    : :
    :
    :
    : :
    8*0=0
    umeona?
    So as u decrease the post multiplier the product decreases rapidly
    As u can see above,mpaka ufike kwenye zero jibu litakuwa zero pia!
    Usipoelewa hapa,huelewi tena na useme hesabu ngumu kama wenzako wanavyosema!
     
  9. Madela Wa- Madilu

    Madela Wa- Madilu JF-Expert Member

    #9
    Apr 23, 2012
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    8x8=64
    8x7=56
    8x6=48
    8x5=40
    8x4=32
    8x3=24
    8x2=16
    8x1=8
    Let us multiply with numbers less than 1
    8x0.9=7.2
    8x0.8=6.4
    8x0.7=5.6
    8x0.6=4.8
    8x0.5=4.0
    8x0.4=3.2
    8x0.3=24
    8x0.2=1.6
    8x0.1=0.8
    Let us multiply with number less than 0.1
    8x0.01=0.08
    8x0.0001=0.0008
    8x0.000000000000000000001=0.000000000000000000008 very close to zero

    let us assume zero is equal or close to to 10^[SUP]-[/SUP]1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

    8x 10^[SUP]-[/SUP]1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ~= 0
     
  10. Madela Wa- Madilu

    Madela Wa- Madilu JF-Expert Member

    #10
    Apr 23, 2012
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    There is infinitely BIG and Infinitely small

    1000,000 Gazillion is infinitely BIG
    0.00000000000000000000000000000001 which is close to zero is infinitely small
    Therefore;
    0 is infinitely small

     
  11. Jungumawe

    Jungumawe JF-Expert Member

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    Apr 23, 2012
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    fikiria hivi machungwa 8 yanauzwa shilingi moja sokoni,sasa wewe huna hiyo shilingi moja utayapata vipi hayo machungwa wewe utaishia kuyatolea mimacho tu , au una kuku wa mayai wanane wkitaga mara moja utapata mayai 8 je wasipotaga utapata mayai mangapi jibu kama bado uko live.
     
  12. Madela Wa- Madilu

    Madela Wa- Madilu JF-Expert Member

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    Hesabu ngumu, msicheke.
     
  13. Geofrey_GAMS

    Geofrey_GAMS JF-Expert Member

    #13
    Apr 23, 2012
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    maelezo yako ni sahihi kwa asilimia zote mia, hope atakuwa amekuelewa vizuri
     
  14. Geofrey_GAMS

    Geofrey_GAMS JF-Expert Member

    #14
    Apr 23, 2012
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    umeprove kwamba haujakalili hesabu bali unaielewa, dats gud brah, amekuelewa
     
  15. Sir_Finus

    Sir_Finus Senior Member

    #15
    Apr 23, 2012
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    bro,hyo ni per person!
    I mean unaposema 8*2,unamaana watu ni wawili and kila mmoja ana machungwa manane datz y 2napata machungwa kumi na sita jumla kama wakiwa watatu machungwa yatakuwa 24 if kila mmoja ana 8,but pakiwa hamna mtu then machungwa hamna pia because machungwa nane per person!
     
  16. s

    sugi JF-Expert Member

    #16
    Apr 23, 2012
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    8*2 ina maana zaidi ya watu na machungwa,watu na machungwa ni mfano mmoja tu kati ya mamilioni ya mifano,mfano huu ni wa level ya chini sana(ni kwa darasa la 1-3 labda) uking'ang'ania hayo machungwa yako utatengeneza barier ya kuelewa hesabu,maana zero ina definition zaidi ya"hakuna kitu"
     
  17. M

    Malyenge JF-Expert Member

    #17
    Apr 23, 2012
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    Mayalla, nadhani umenielewa sana! Watu wanashindwa kuelewa. Ni kwamba kwa sifuri ukiizidisha na namba yoyote jibu lake ni sifuri, hapo nakubali kabisa.... Lakini nina namba fulani nikaizidisha na sifuri iweje tena nipate sifuri? Mfano, ile idadi ya machungwa niliyokuwa nayo kabla sikaizidisha na sifuri nayo imeyeyukia wapi?
    Mkuu Mayala big up kumbe umenielewa sana!
     
  18. M

    Malyenge JF-Expert Member

    #18
    Apr 23, 2012
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    X-Paster niliposema kinyume cha kuzidisha ni kujumlisha hiyo ni kwa mujibu wa kanuni ya hesabu za logarithm mkuu. nakukumbusha tu.
     
  19. M

    Malyenge JF-Expert Member

    #19
    Apr 23, 2012
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    Sugi, zero kweli inamaanisha "hamna kitu". Kwa hiyo ili upate sifuri ni kwamba unechukua "hamna kitu" ukazidisha kwa namba yoyote hata ikiwa ni mabilioni, jibu litakuwa ni hamna kitu tu (zero!). Lakini ukiwa say, na milioni moja ukaizidisha na "hamna kitu" iweje jibu liwe hamna kitu?? hiyo milioni moja imeenda wapi?
    Tafakari.
     
  20. s

    sugi JF-Expert Member

    #20
    Apr 23, 2012
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    Mkuu Malyenge angalia kwa makini sasa,tendo la kuzidisha ni tendo la kujumlisha kwa kujirudia rudia,tunaanza sasa:
    8*4=8+8+8+8=8+24 upo?
    8*3=8+8+8=8+16 umeniona?
    8*2=8+8
    8*1=8+0 hapo je?
    8*0=8+(-8) una swali?
    So
    8+(-8)=8-8=0
    Which justifies that
    8*0=0
     
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