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Kudai kuwa chanzo cha mikataba mibovu ni kukosa elimu ni tusi na kejeli kwa wengi nchini!

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Mzee Mwanakijiji, Sep 20, 2012.

  1. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #1
    Sep 20, 2012
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    Kwa maoni yangu ni kejeli kubwa na ni tusi kwa kudai kuwa tatizo letu la mikataba ni tatizo la watu kukosa elimu. Hivi tunaweza kusema tatizo la sekta ya afya ni watu kukosa elimu ya udaktari? au tatizo la elimu watu kukosa elimu ya ualimu? Tanzania imekuwa na wanasheria mahiri wengi tu napo wengi tu ambao wamespecialize katika international contracts na sheria hizi za mikataba. Ni kweli Tanzania haina watu wenye elimu hiyo?

    Au wanaposema tatizo ni elimu wana maana kuwa wasomi wetu (wanasheria na wengine) wanapokaa na hawa wageni kwenye meza moja wasomi wetu hawana upeo au uwezo wa kujadiliana kisomi? Kama hili ni kweli kundi lililopelekwa kujadiliana na wa Malawi lenye kuhusisha wasomi lina matumaini gani? Hivi juzi MWakyembe na wataalamu toka Wizarani wameenda Ujerumani na huko wana/wamekutana na wadau mbalimbali wa sekta ya anga na usafirishaji. Sasa waje kuingia mkataba halafu baadaye tuseme hatuna wataalamu wenye ujuzi wa mambo ya anga na usafirishaji?

    It is fallacious kudai kuwa tatizo letu la mikataba ni tatizo linalotokana na elimu? Kivipi.. hatuna wasomi, vyuo vyetu havijui kufundisha mambo ya mikataba? wanafunzi wetu ni wagumu kuelewa? au ni nini hasa? Maana hata Kikwete aliwahi kusema alipokuwa Sweden?? kuwa tatizo la nchi kuingia mikataba mibovu ni kwa sababu wanasheria wetu hawana ujuzi sana! Na hakuna aliyebisha na hivyo kufanya iaminike kuwa tatizo ni elimu.

    Sasa kama tatizo ni elimu na kuwa hatuna wasomi wa kuingia mikataba mizuri hiki kimbelembele cha kuendelea kuingia mikataba mingine kinatoka wapi? Kama kweli hatuna wasomi wenye kuweza kutuletea deals nzuri kwenye mikataba ni kitu gani kinatufanya tukubali kuingia mikataba mingine tukitarajia kuwa itakuwa tofauti? Si imewahi kusemwa kuwa the classical definition of insanity is doing the same thing, the same way, every time expecting different results? Kila ukipanda michongoma unakaa pembeni na kuombea mpunga uote? na ukiota mchongoma unalaumu udongo?
     
  2. r

    republicoftabora Member

    #2
    Sep 20, 2012
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    kaka wewe pia ni part of the problem
    Nakala ndefuuuuu wakati ukweli unaujua. Upuuzi huu ndio aliokwenda nao FREEMAN MBOWE huko DMV....kaja na filosofi ya ELIMU, ELIMU, ELIMU kisha LAW & ORDER

    Richmond na EPA , kila kukicha mlitaka kutuaminisha kuwa mwenye makosa ni ROSTAM na LOWASSA lakini ukweli waliotuingiza hapo ni wanasheria wetu akina MKONO, akina MAAJAR & CO na wanasheria wengine ambao ni wasomi zaidi walioko Tanesco, wizarani, wizara ya sheria na kwingineko

    Mie sina hiyo degree, kisomo changu ni form 6 lakini najua siku zote contracts zina pande 2 sasa iweje leo tunaaminishwa kuwa wahindi, wairan, akina mkono ndio wabaya wakai serikali hii ina mijitu ina degree 3 tutu?

    mimi nakushairi. acha kutuletea hizo articles ndefu as if sisi ni wajinga na hatujui tatizo liko wapi. Lete article ya paragraph 2 max kisha waache hawa so called great thinkers waumize kichwa.

    Mimi naona bora kama unapata ugali wako wewe endelea tuu lakini hii system imeoza, hao the so called wapinzani wameoza zaidi. Kila mmoja ale kwake

    Eti LAW & ORDER...labda Law and order ya tv series na hata ile wahalifu wanakamatwa.

    mimi nishachoka na naskia kichefu chefu nikisoma hizi habari eti kusoma kusoma sasa hao wasomi wametufikisha wapi?
     
  3. Nyani Ngabu

    Nyani Ngabu Platinum Member

    #3
    Sep 20, 2012
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    Tatizo ni upungufu wa common sense.
     
  4. Kimbunga

    Kimbunga Platinum Member

    #4
    Sep 20, 2012
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    Wanasheria wetu ndio tatizo kuu kwenye masakata ya mikataba. Tusimung'unye maneno wala kupepesa macho katika hili. Wanasheria wanaikaanga hii nchi. Wengi ambao wamejihusisha katika masuala ya mikataba wana utajiri usioelezeka!
     
  5. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #5
    Sep 20, 2012
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    Lakini utakuwa kuwa inakuwa assumed kuwa wasomi ndio wana 'common sense' ndio maana utaona watu wengi wanapenda sana kuuliza "CV"ya mtu na wakiona wanaamua kama mtu ni 'kichwa' au vipi. Wanakuwa impressed sana na CV kiasi kwamba mtu huyo anapoboronga watu wanashindwa kuelewa. Inanikumbusha mambo ya Prof. Peter Msola na Elimu ya Juu!

    Yawezekana labda 'common sense is not that common after all'?
     
  6. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #6
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    Sijui kama umesoma ulichoandika wewe mwenyewe; labda na wewe ni sehemu ya hilo tatizo unalonituhumu nalo mimi?
     
  7. Nzowa Godat

    Nzowa Godat JF-Expert Member

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    Tatizo ni kusomea mtihani na baada ya kuchukua ganda erosion takes place!
     
  8. Dumelambegu

    Dumelambegu JF-Expert Member

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    Sep 20, 2012
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    MMK, performance inapokuwa mbaya unaweza kutukanwa kwa tusi lolote. Mimi siafiki kabisa kwamba tatizo letu watanzania (siyo waafrika) ni elimu japo in some cases ni kweli ufahamu mdogo wa mambo fulani unachangia. Tatizo letu kubwa ni kitu kinachoitwa kwa ujumla wake UBINAFSI. Mambo mengi yanayofanywa na viongozi wetu wawe ni wa kisiasa au watendaji ni UBINAFSI. Wengi wao kila walifanyalo wanaongozwa zaidi na UBIBAFSI. Wanapojadili mikataba baina ya nchi na nchi wanaangalia watapata nini wao kama wao na siyo nchi itapata nini. Mtu yupo radhi ajengewe nyumba na kununuliwa gari ya kisasa kwa milioni chache huku akitambua kuwa kwa kufanyiwa hivyo, anaikosesha nchi mabilioni ya fedha ambayo yangeinufaisha watanzania takriban wote.
     
  9. Capital

    Capital JF-Expert Member

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    Kasome na wewe. problem kubwa ni kuwa wasomi wengi wamekuwa sidelined katika organs za kutoa maamuzi na badala yake mediocres au junks ndo wamejaa huko.

    Kwa Tanzania, wajinga ndo viongozi wa welevu, ajabu sana. mchango wa wasomi haupo kwani wana kilio cha kusaga meno, wanasiasa ambao wengi hardly wana kashahada kamoja kama siyo vyeti vya kuungaunga ndo thinkers and decision makers.

    Changamoto kwa wasomi ni kuwa mpaka lini vilaza wataendelea kutushika masikio? kwa hali ilivyo wasomi wanapata ulaji toka kwa watu wasiosoma kwa hiyo ni ngumu kufikiria na kutenda zaidi ya kilaza aliyekupa ulaji.

    Wasomi tuwe na courage na intent tuwaambie vilaza kwanza wakasome, watuachie nchi, miaka 10, tz itakaribiana na S.Afr.

    Cha kushangaza, vilaza wana mikakati ya kuwabana wasomi na wasomi hawana mkakati wa kuwabana vilaza. sijui ni laana ama nini.
     
  10. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #10
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    this is profoundly deep!!.. could be my quote of the month kwa kweli! thanks.
     
  11. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #11
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    Wapo watakaopinga maana karibu wasomi waliokubuhu ndio wameingia kwenye siasa na uongozi wa nchi.... tunaweza kutaja majina machache tu utashangaa.. wale ambao wanaonekana ni wasomi kweli ndio wanashika utawala au wako juu tena wakistahili... at least according to them.
     
  12. w

    wikolo JF-Expert Member

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    Sep 20, 2012
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    Mwanakijiji, anayesema tatizo ni elimu anatuongopea tu. Kinachotusumbua ni UBINAFSI tu na hakuna kingine. Wanapokuwa wanaingia mikataba hii wanajua kabisa ni nini nchi itapata lakini kwa sababu wanajiangalia wao kwanza, hawajali chochote. Anapopewa cha kwake kwa kufanikisha faida kubwa kwa mwekezaji, haya mengine ya hasara kwa taifa hayamhusu. Nikipata nafasi ya kutoa maoni yangu kwenye katiba mpya nitaomba iwekwe sheria, kwa yeyote ambaye atakuwa na utajiri usioelezeka mali zake zibinafsishwe na ziwe za uma. Labda kwa kufanya hivyo wataogopa.
     
  13. Capital

    Capital JF-Expert Member

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    Mkuu UBINAFSI chanzo chake ni nini? Wacha kwanza nikupe shule tamu.. Ubinafsi unatokana na INSECURITY.

    katika mifumo ya uchumi holera ambao hauna nyuma wala mbele, usiolindwa na kudhibitiwa na sheria, ambamo watu wengi hawafanyi kazi, security ya jamii na mtu mmojammoja hakuna.

    hivyo mtu yeyote akipata opportunity, kuna drive nyuma yake... kwamba hana uhakika wa maisha yake endapo nafasi au hali aliyonayo itaisha. mtu kama huyu na kama walivyo wengi wetu, na mimi pia, automaticaly ni INSECURE, kwa hiyo atafanya kila liwezekanalo ili ajihakikishie maisha mazuri hapo baadaye.

    Na mtu kama huyu awezafanya chochote, hata kwa kuuza nchi. kwa maoni yangu, tujenge nchi yetu kwa moyo mmoja kwa kujituma kupiga kazi (nadhani naeleweka) hapo jamii zetu zitakuwa secure maana zitaweza kidhi matakwa ya watu wake na halafu watu mmoja mmoja watakuwa secure.

    Mtu akija kuwa mbinafsi, basi atadhibitiwa maana huo sasa ni ulafi. kwamba kama kapata kihalali, atozwe kodi ya kutosha, kama kaiba...simple, anapata miaka ya kutosha gerezani. nakaribisha mjadala.
    Capital.
     
  14. Azipa

    Azipa JF-Expert Member

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    Nakubaliana na mchangiaji REPUBLIC OF TABORA. Mkuu Mzee Mwanakijiji ungefupisha tu hii mada. Hapo nilipoku-quote ndipo penye mantiki.

    Na prof. Muhongo anaposema tatizo ni elimu ana maana elimu katika mikataba ya gesi na mafuta. Mimi nashangaa eti ZZK ndo anapewa kudraft mikataba ya madini 2007. Sasa waliosomea mikataba ya madini watakuwa na manufaa gani?

    Ukitaka likuingie akilini suala la hatuna elimu katika nyanja ya gesi na mafuta jiulize kama suala ni Phd tu kwanini wasitumie sheria za mikataba ya madini kwenye hii ya gesi na mafuta?

    Tunahitaji wasomi katika nyanja ya gesi na mafuta
    .
     
  15. J

    Joachim Morgan Member

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    Tatizo sio wasomi bali hizo ni dili za wakubwa ndo maana ya mambo ya Uswisi. Mbona hao hao wanasheria ndo wanazisimamia kampuni za nje na zinatushinda kesi tatizo ni RUSHWA hebu tuache kuzungusha mambo wakati kila kitu kipo wazi.
     
  16. K

    Kazi Ndiyo Kipimo Cha Utu JF-Expert Member

    #16
    Sep 20, 2012
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    Sir!
    Tatizo si kukosa elimu bali ni kukosa utashi wa kuitumia elimu kwa manufaa ya Taifa,Ubinafsi mkubwa,tamaa,ufisadi,wizi,kukosa uzalendo,na kutojali madhara wanayowasababishia watanzania.

    Hivi elimu gani unaihitaji kuelewa kwamba ili nifaidike na mali yangu ambayo siwezi kuichimba na kuisafisha na kuiweka sokoni na kama wewe unaweza kufanya hayo naomba unipe nusu na wewe uchukue nusu na wakati wa kuchimba ,kusafisha tutakuwa na usimamizi na uhakiki wa kile kinachopatikana.Na hii iwe ndani ya sheria,hilo sijui linahitaji elimu gani ya madini.

    Wao watu wa fani ya madini wacha waite wanavyotaka lkn sisi kama nchi na wenye rasilimali tuweke rahisi kueleweka kwa wananchi wetu huo mkataba na tunachotaka kinachopatikana ni pasu kwa pasu na mwekezaji ataona hawezi angalau asilimia 40 sasa kuandika mkataba rahisi mathalani kama huu unahitaji elimu gani wao waache waweke majina kibao ya fani yao lkn sisi kama nchi tunasimamia madini,gesi nk ni vyangu kama wewe unavitaka pasu pasu.

    Hapa tuna hitaji usomi wa aina gani.Jingine kama wanakuja na swala la gharama utafutaji ,uzalishaji na usafishaji hiyo ni sehemu ya biashara unaweza sema sawa ktk miaka 5 utanipa 30% nawe utachukua 30% na 40% ziende kwenye ufidiaji wa gharama za utafutaji,uzalishaji na usafishaji na mengine na baada ya miaka 5 ,50% kwa 50% au tuingie ubia na wote tugharimie na kila kinachopatikana tunakigawanya.

    Hivi hili linahitaji elimu gani zaidi ya uelewa mdogo wa kibiashara. Hawa waheshimiwa wanakuza na kudanganywa na mlolongo wa sentesi zinazowekwa kwenye mikataba kuwazuga na kuuzuga umma ili wanapowaibia watanzania kwa kupokea 10% wapate pa kutokea.Hili nalo linahitaji elimu ya juu?
     
  17. K

    Kulya JF-Expert Member

    #17
    Sep 20, 2012
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    Gentlemen, in closing a contract there is one aspect which is very important, "NEGOTIATION". You might be more than competent in the laws governing whichever contract you are about to enter, but if you lack NEGOTIATION skills to secure a win-win deal, you are done for good.

    It is true, very very true as the birth of Jesus Christ that we have very competent, skilled and well established and learned lawyers, but NEGOTIATION skills is a problem, when they meet experienced negotiators, they agree consensus ad idem seeing they have done a good job, a job worthy to our country, meanwhile they have fell under win-lose situation.

    Another issue is Lack of Patriotism, which of course is a very big problem and a "NATIONAL DISASTER". Most of the lawyers hired by our country to represent us "WAMETUUZA" for "CHUKUA CHAKO MAPEMA" This is very dangerous! We no more have nationhood spirit. Everyone, in a position wants to grab something for himself first, then behind it comes national interests.

    Non-the-less, the use of private practicing lawyers in sensitive national deals. This is a very big mistake we are making! These guys we hire are money mongers, are not for national interest! In my opinion this has been as a result of a recent years' trend of Cream and Competent graduate to run away from the Government service. Of course this has been so because of poor remuneration in the public sector.

    In my opinion, it is true that we lack skills in contracts negotiations, which of course is a part and parcel of "ELIMU YA MIKATABA" and patriotism is another big issue.
     
  18. Mwita Maranya

    Mwita Maranya JF-Expert Member

    #18
    Sep 20, 2012
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    Si kweli kwamba tatizo ni wasomi, ama elimu. Kwa mtazamo wangu tatizo kubwa tulilonalo kama nchi ni wasomi wetu na viongozi wetu wanaotuwakilisha katika majadiliano ya mikataba kutokuwa wazalendo. Wameweka mbele ubinafsi kwahiyo wanashindwa kuzingatia maslahi mapana ya watanzania wanapokuwa kwenye meza ya majadiliano.

    Kwa mfano tumeambiwa kuna watanzania wachache wameficha mabilioni ya fedha huko uswisi, na fedha hizo wameingiziwa na makampuni ya madini na gesi huko huko uswisi, sasa hapo utasema kwamba hatuna wasomi ama tatizo letu ni elimu? no no no, ukosefu wa uzalendo na unafiki wa wataalamu wetu...
     
  19. M

    Mazindu Msambule JF-Expert Member

    #19
    Sep 20, 2012
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    Mkuu Form 6, nadhani hujamwelewa MM, jana BBC swahili service, waliwa interview watu 3, Waziri Prof. Mulugo, Zitto Zuberi Kabwe na mtu 1 toka Kenya.

    Issue ilikuwa ni rasilimali za Africa hasa Madini while Africa hiyo hiyo inakuwa masikini, Waziri Mulugo alijitetea kuwa shida ya Africa including Tanzania ni elimu, hapo ndo inapokuja hoja ya MM, je, hivi ni kweli tuliingia mkenge kwenye mikataba hiyo kwasababu ya Elimu?

    Hata mimi nakataa, issue sio Elimu, kama ni elimu kuna akina Andrew Chenge, huyu kasoma nadhani Marekani if not England, Dr. Harrison Mwakyembe, degree zake zingine kachukulia Ujerumani, Prof. Shivji n.k, wote hawa ni watu waliobobea katika taaluma hii ya sheria, shida kubwa ya Africa sio elimu ya mikataba, shida ya Africa ni ufisadi na 10%.

    Nimeajiliwa na makampuni ya nje mara kadhaa, tena nimekua ninafanya kazi na watu wa mataifa tofauti, Ulaya, Africa kusini, America, Australia, Wafaransa n.k, asilimia kubwa ya hawa wanaokuja huku sometimes hata kusaini hiyo mikataba ni watu ambao wana elimu ya kawaida mno, wengine hata Degree ukweli hawana.

    Kitu cha ajabu nilicho kiona, Viongozi wetu hao mnaowaita ni ma dokta na maprofesa utakuta wanawaogopa kweli hadi unashangaa, angalieni siku ili George W. Bush alivyokuja Tanzania, hadharani kabisa Kikwete na yeye Bush walisainiana mkataba fulani mbele ya kamera za Televison, hivi kuna mtu anaweza kujua kilicho kuwepo kwenye ule mkataba?

    Kama pia niliona vizuri, mkataba ulitoka Marekani, Kikwete hata hakupewa muda wa kuusoma na may be i seek ushauri kwa watu wake ili wamwambie kitu, muda huo haukuwepo, kilichotokea, Bush akasaini then Kikwete naye akatakiwa kusaini, mwisho, hapo unategemea nini?

    Hivi kama iliandikwa kwa mfano, "Sehemu yote ya Kigamboni kuanzia mwaka huu itakuwa ni sehemu ya Marekani" then Kikwete kwakua hakusoma huo mkataba mwanzoni, then akiwa Ikulu na copy ya mkataba akakiona hicho kipengere, unadhani atafanya nini, issue sio elimu, ni umakini na ufisadi tu ndio unateketeza Africa.

    Sometimes nakubaliana na tusi tulilowahi kutukanwa na Peter Botha, rais wa zamani Africa kusini (enzi za ubaguzi) alisema, "Mtu mweusi hana uwezo wa kupanga mipango inayo zidi mwaka 1, akili hiyo hana" anaye pingana na hili aje na jibu hili, kwanini kila sehemu duniana wanapo ishi watu weusi eneo hilo ni masikini?
     
  20. M

    MIGNON JF-Expert Member

    #20
    Sep 20, 2012
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    UBINAFSI;UBINAFSI unatumaliza. Naomba nitoe mifano michahche ili watu wakumbuke. Mtooto wa Mwandosya alifadhiliwa na CELTEL kwenda kwenye elective course South Africa.

    Je, Mwandosya alishindwa kumpeleka mwanae mpaka apate ufadhili wa Kampuni amabya ilikuwa inafaidika na kifo cha TTCL. Pili,Msekwa kuwa VODACOM wakiwa akiwa Spika.Je masalhai ya nchi yatawekwa mbele au ataangalia maslahi ya kampuni yake?

    Mkuu wa nchi anapomaliza muda wake anapata marupurupu ya kutosha na hata kujengewa nyumba,palikuwa na haraka kupomosha mahekalu Msoga wakati hata miaka mitano ya mwanzo haijaisha?

    Orodha ni ndefu lakini wote hao hawana uwezo wa kula kilo mbili za mchele na kilo mbili za nyama kwa siku lakini ubinafsi umetawala kiasi ambacho tunajitizama sisi tu na kutokujali walio wengi.

    Kuna sababu kweli wanafunzi kukaa chini wakati tuna safirisha magogo nje? Ubinafsi umeingia ndani yanafsi zetu kwa nguvu mno na kuutoa itatakiwa firing squad.
     
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