Kubenea kashindwa kumzungumzia Rostam mbele ya Waandishi!

[Baba Ubaya]

Mzee game theory hueleweki naona huna data kabisa ni bola ungekaa kimya

 

[Kaniki1974]

Hiyo ni baada ya Valeaur or safari iliyoanzisha safari nyingine.

 

[Kaniki1974]

Kisa kaongea game theory angeongea mwanakijiji au Invisible same thing mngeona ana make sense ila kwa sababu ni GT mnaona ana lose mind au analipuliza...hebu acheni ukuda!...kama mada huelewi si uulize tuu!....

Acheni fitina

Sio fitina K1. Ila mguu wako lazima umebeba weight ya kutosha...teh teh teh

 

[Binti Maringo]

Sio fitina K1. Ila mguu wako lazima umebeba weight ya kutosha...teh teh teh

Sasa Kaniki eeh mguu wangu na fitina za hawa wana jf kwa GT unahusiana vipi?...

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

It would be nice if you would counter toe for toe, in the great JF tradition of interesting intellectual interchabge courtesly coupled with due diligence inculcated data based debate.

unfortunately, the tradition of speculation still rules; this is not the same as a tradition of intellectual exchange in the arena of ideas. The whole premise of the thread has no foundation in data nor debate. It is purely presumptive, speculative and absolutely destructive to the the very thing called debate.

The author has leaped illogically and superficially from imagination to claims of conclusive statements of facts. Such a leap in unwarranted and can not call for an honest "counter toe to toe". May I show this through a skillful and meticulous disection of the argument?

KUBENEA ambaye kwa sababu anazozijua yeye aliamua kufanya PRESS CONFERENCE YA KUMPA masaa 24 mheshimiwa ROSTAM AZIZ aombwe radhi baada ya kumhusisha Kubenea na UFISADI lakini katika hali isiyo ya kawaida Kubenea amechomoa bila sababu za msingi.

Kwanza, ni lini Kubenea alitoa ahadi hiyo ya mkutano wa kumwanika RA na wapi? (angalau tuwe na msingi wa kuanzia, maana kama hakukuwa na mkutano huo wala ahadi hiyo the whole thread collapses).

How does he know kuwa "amechomoa bila sababu za msingi"? Kutokutokea mahali siyo sawa na kutokuwa na sababu ya msingi. Kutokuwa na sababu ya msingi ni kuwa umemsikia sababu anazokupa na haziingii akilini; so, sababu gani imetolewa na Kubenea (assuming kulikuwa na mkutano huo) kiasi kwamba ni ambazo hazina "msingi" na sababu zipi zingekubalika kuwa ni za "msingi" na nani anayeamua sababu anazotoa mtu kuwa ni za msingi au la. Kama aliamua kulala apumzike je hiyo ni sababu ya msingi au la?

Taarifa zaidi toka Baleni Mafia zinasema kuwa ndugu jamaa na marafiki wamesikitishwa na kitendo cha kijana wao kutofanya hiyo press conference ambayo pamoja na mambo mengine ingemwanika ( whatever it means nowadays) mheshimiwa Rostam na kumweka wazi kwani Kubenea anazo DATAZ ambazo angemkoma "Nyani Giladi"

Huo mkutano ulitakiwa kufanyika Baleni Mafia mbele ya "ndugu, jamaa, na marafiki" kiasi kwamba tuambiwe kuwa kitendo cha kutofanyika kimewafanya hilo kundi kusikitika? Kama ilikuwa ni kikao cha familia sisi kinatuhusu nini? Kama kilikuwa cha manufaa kwa taifa kwanini wanafamilia waonekane kusikitishwa zaidi?

Na katika duru za waandishi kuna habari kuwa inawezekana kuwa naye kesha pewa chochote kama alivyokuwa akipewa na LOWASA ndio maana katulia...na hii inawezekana ni kweli

the functional word here is "inawezekana"... do we know how many things in this word are "possible or probable".. in other words the opposite is also true which means the reasoning is totally and intrinsically flawed.

Inawezekana is not a fact is hypothetical.. which means you can not have an intellectual debate soley and totally based on fabrication of one's own mind. Kwa sababu, naweza kusema easily RA inawezekana ni mtoto wa Nyerere! halafu tuanze kujadili urithi wake kwenye familia ya Nyerere!

kwani alikuwa anaitukana saaanaaaa serikali ya JK na JK mwenyewe akidai ni FISADI

now this is a statement of fact.. this is a definitive statement that "Kubenea" ameitukana "saaaaaana" serikali ya JK na JK mwenyewe "akidai (kwamba kitendo hicho kinaendelea, this is present participle) kuwa ni "fisadi". Lets pause for a second and question our sanity.. lini, wapi na kwa namna gani Kubenea aliwahi kumuita JK ni "fisadi". The burden of proof is not on Kubenea to prove that he didn't say that or claim that, the burden of proof is on the author to prove that he did.

na mengineyo

such a wide gate of possibilities, I dare not walk through it!

na hata ule mkutano na Lowasa aliahidiwa MATANGAZO KWENYE GAZETI LA MWANAHALISI lakini alipoona kimya (baada kuambiwa kuwa avute subira) akaamua kurudi na nguvu zote kuitukana bara bara serikali ya JK kuwa ni ya kifisadi

The author claims that there was a meeting between Lowassa and Kubenea, this is a claim of fact. And that, in this alleged meeting there was a promise given and because the promise was not fulfilled then Kubenea resorted to "kuitukana barabara serikali ya JK kuwa ni ya kifisadi". What a charge! Again, the burden of proof is not on Kubenea but on the author to show (even remotely) that this indeed did happen.

Mpaka alipomwagiwa tindikali baada ya gari lake kuvunjwa viooo

"Mpaka" simply means, that after this things changed. That the incident was transformational to Kubenea. How is this?

Lakini mafisadi hao hao aliowaita mafisadi ndio walimlipia gharama za matibabu kwenda INDIA India

Hapa tunajiuliza walipia toka mifuko yao na fedha zao binafsi? au walilipa kutoka fedha za serikali ambazo ni za wananchi wa taifa hili? Kama ilikuwa ni kutoka mifuko yao binafsi "mafisadi hao hao" then ipo hoja, lakini kama fedha ni za serikali, ina maana Kubenea ana haki nazo kama Mtanzania mwingine yeyote anayehitaji huduma ya namna hiyo. Ni kama walivyomsaidia Athuman Khamisi au mgonjwa mwingine. Ufisadi wa mtu serikalini haufanyi hela ya serikali kuwa ni haram!

hivyo we should not rule out kuwa naye amekuwa compromised kwenye hili sakata ka ufisadi kwani price ya KUBENEA ni ndogo sana...

the argument here claims to know that "price ya Kubenea ni ndogo sana". How does someone know that except that he/she has a personal knowledge of such a thing? Which begs the question, how much is "ndogo sana"?

The last parts are purely for your entertainment..

matangazo kwenye gazeti lake na hivi sitoshangaa kusikia kuwa keshavuta kwa hao hao anaowaita MAFISADI kwa kwa sababu hivyo nadhani tunaweza kusema kuwa KUBENEA NAYE NI FISADI

A great leap from imagination to conclusion of a fact! Jajji yeyote atakutimua mahakani for such a leap!

na tena..

LAKINI inawezekana fisadi huyu anakula kote kote yaani kwa MENGI na kwa ROSTAM kwani ndio kawaida yake

so basically this was the purpose all along to finally say "fisadi huyu" without showing logically or methodically how you reach such a conclusion. Is this based on "inawezekana, nadhania n.k" Well.. if this is what an intellectual "interchange" is then intellectual has lost its meaning...

well.. if we need something resembling "intellectual".. we have to bring something intellectual.. don't you agree?

NB: Full disclosure.. I'm a columnist for MwanaHalisi.

 

[Mtanzania]

Mkuu GM,

Kumetokea nini siku za karibuni? Mbona ghafla kama unamtetea sana RA?

Sisemi ni makosa kumtetea lakini ni kama unaona RA hana makosa kabisa.

Turudi kule kwenye kumkoma nyani giladi ambako naamini GT ulikuwa mtu muhimu sana.

 

[Bluray]

unfortunately, the tradition of speculation still rules; this is not the same as a tradition of intellectual exchange in the arena of ideas. The whole premise of the thread has no foundation in data nor debate. It is purely presumptive, speculative and absolutely destructive to the the very thing called debate.

The author has leaped illogically and superficially from imagination to claims of conclusive statements of facts. Such a leap in unwarranted and can not call for an honest "counter toe to toe". May I show this through a skillful and meticulous disection of the argument?


Kwanza, ni lini Kubenea alitoa ahadi hiyo ya mkutano wa kumwanika RA na wapi? (angalau tuwe na msingi wa kuanzia, maana kama hakukuwa na mkutano huo wala ahadi hiyo the whole thread collapses).

How does he know kuwa "amechomoa bila sababu za msingi"? Kutokutokea mahali siyo sawa na kutokuwa na sababu ya msingi. Kutokuwa na sababu ya msingi ni kuwa umemsikia sababu anazokupa na haziingii akilini; so, sababu gani imetolewa na Kubenea (assuming kulikuwa na mkutano huo) kiasi kwamba ni ambazo hazina "msingi" na sababu zipi zingekubalika kuwa ni za "msingi" na nani anayeamua sababu anazotoa mtu kuwa ni za msingi au la. Kama aliamua kulala apumzike je hiyo ni sababu ya msingi au la?



Huo mkutano ulitakiwa kufanyika Baleni Mafia mbele ya "ndugu, jamaa, na marafiki" kiasi kwamba tuambiwe kuwa kitendo cha kutofanyika kimewafanya hilo kundi kusikitika? Kama ilikuwa ni kikao cha familia sisi kinatuhusu nini? Kama kilikuwa cha manufaa kwa taifa kwanini wanafamilia waonekane kusikitishwa zaidi?



the functional word here is "inawezekana"... do we know how many things in this word are "possible or probable".. in other words the opposite is also true which means the reasoning is totally and intrinsically flawed.

Inawezekana is not a fact is hypothetical.. which means you can not have an intellectual debate soley and totally based on fabrication of one's own mind. Kwa sababu, naweza kusema easily RA inawezekana ni mtoto wa Nyerere! halafu tuanze kujadili urithi wake kwenye familia ya Nyerere!



now this is a statement of fact.. this is a definitive statement that "Kubenea" ameitukana "saaaaaana" serikali ya JK na JK mwenyewe "akidai (kwamba kitendo hicho kinaendelea, this is present participle) kuwa ni "fisadi". Lets pause for a second and question our sanity.. lini, wapi na kwa namna gani Kubenea aliwahi kumuita JK ni "fisadi". The burden of proof is not on Kubenea to prove that he didn't say that or claim that, the burden of proof is on the author to prove that he did.



such a wide gate of possibilities, I dare not walk through it!



The author claims that there was a meeting between Lowassa and Kubenea, this is a claim of fact. And that, in this alleged meeting there was a promise given and because the promise was not fulfilled then Kubenea resorted to "kuitukana barabara serikali ya JK kuwa ni ya kifisadi". What a charge! Again, the burden of proof is not on Kubenea but on the author to show (even remotely) that this indeed did happen.



"Mpaka" simply means, that after this things changed. That the incident was transformational to Kubenea. How is this?



Hapa tunajiuliza walipia toka mifuko yao na fedha zao binafsi? au walilipa kutoka fedha za serikali ambazo ni za wananchi wa taifa hili? Kama ilikuwa ni kutoka mifuko yao binafsi "mafisadi hao hao" then ipo hoja, lakini kama fedha ni za serikali, ina maana Kubenea ana haki nazo kama Mtanzania mwingine yeyote anayehitaji huduma ya namna hiyo. Ni kama walivyomsaidia Athuman Khamisi au mgonjwa mwingine. Ufisadi wa mtu serikalini haufanyi hela ya serikali kuwa ni haram!



the argument here claims to know that "price ya Kubenea ni ndogo sana". How does someone know that except that he/she has a personal knowledge of such a thing? Which begs the question, how much is "ndogo sana"?

The last parts are purely for your entertainment..



A great leap from imagination to conclusion of a fact! Jajji yeyote atakutimua mahakani for such a leap!

na tena..



so basically this was the purpose all along to finally say "fisadi huyu" without showing logically or methodically how you reach such a conclusion. Is this based on "inawezekana, nadhania n.k" Well.. if this is what an intellectual "interchange" is then intellectual has lost its meaning...

well.. if we need something resembling "intellectual".. we have to bring something intellectual.. don't you agree?

Thats what I am talking about, this is how you take GT to task.I posed a condensed version of your above questions.

Will GT please take the floor and defend his challenged utterances?

 

[MwanaFalsafa1]

Kwenye vita dhidi ya ufisadi lazima uangalie pande zote. Uki shabikia upande mmoja tu utaji kuta una kosa data muhimu toka pande nyingine. Sisemi GT kasema ukweli au uongo lakini si bora kuchunguza ujue ukweli badala ya kumponda tu. Yawezekana ana yake au la lakini demokrasia ina maanisha kusikilizwa pande zote. Hata mahakamani anaye shitaki na anaye shitakiwa wote wana sikilizwa.

Sawa what GT said has not been proven right but it has not been proven wrong either. Cha muhimu ni data iki letw ichambuliwe ukweli wake. Hapa nimesoma comments zote na sijaona aliye toa maelezo ya kupinga hoja iliyo andikwa.

Lets be fair & listen both sides kisha to make judgements. GT mwenyewe yupo hapa I suggest tumpige yeye maswali atete hoja yake. Si kaileta yeye. Basi badala ya kumsema tu ni mjinga mpigeni maswali aji kamyage mwenyewe. Hoja kaitoa, mwenyewe yupo ila sioni anaye muuliza maswali yoyote huyu GT.

This figh against ufisadi is deeper then we think. Baadae mtakuja kushangaa watu ambao mli tegemea wako upande fulani kumbe wako mwingine. Wote hapa hatupo kwenye inner circle ya information flow ya ufisadi. Sisi tuna sikia kinacho kuwa leaked to the public kisha tuna jaribu wenyewe kumake 1+1. As ridiculous as anyone can sound lets just here the story, question then & hold them accountable for their own words.

Kumbukeni kichaa anaweza kuona mauaji yaki tendeka ila kwa sababu ni kichaa akisema ataonekana muongo. No matter what the motives of GT are msikilizeni na kumhoji kwanza before dismissing anything.

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Thats what I am talking about, this is how you take GT to task.I posed a condensed version of your above questions.

Will GT please take the floor and defend his challenged utterances?

it is not personal.. utaona sijamtaja mwandishi... nimeangalia argument.. so mtu yeyote anayetaka kujibu anaweza kujibu kwa kushambulia hoja zangu (mwandishi mwenyewe au mwingine)..

 

[Yo Yo]

Turudi kule kwenye kumkoma nyani giladi ambako naamini GT ulikuwa mtu muhimu sana.

GT alikuwa zamani aisee unamkumbuka kwenye thread za financial crisis na zingine......jamaa kichwa sana tumpe muda mkuu...hii kuelekea 2010...

 

[Yona F. Maro]

wanajamii jamii haijengwi hivi jinsi gt anavyoambiwa na wengine kama huwezi kuchangia acha mada iwe hewani itafungwa usiandike yako jamii haijengwi hivi

 

[AljuniorTz]

Rostam Ashindwa Kujibu Hoja, Abambika Tuhuma

Na Saed Kubenea

UKUMBI ulijaa waandishi wa habari, chipukizi na wakongwe. Ni katika mkutano wa Rostam Aziz, mbunge wa Igunga na mfanyabiashara.

Kwa jinsi ukumbi ulivyofurika waandishi na kutokana na hatua ya Rostam kuibua tuhuma za kale juu ya Reginald Mengi, ambapo yeye amekuwa kiongozi wa ngazi ya juu katika Chama Cha Mapinduzi (CCM), ilitarajiwa maswali mengi yangeulizwa. Hayakuwapo.

Jumapili iliyopita Rostam aliita mkutano wa waandishi wa habari katika hoteli ya Kilimanjaro Kempinski, Dar es Salaam kujibu kile alichoita, “Tuhuma alizorushiwa na Mwenyekiti Mtendaji wa makampuni ya IPP, Reginald Mengi.”

Ni wachache waliothubutu kunyanyua mdomo na kumuuliza Rostam. Peter Nyanje, mhariri wa gazeti la kila siku linalochapishwa kwa lungha ya Kiingereza, The Citizen ndiye aliamsha ujasiri wa waandishi wachache. Mwandsishi wa makala hii alikuwemo.

Peter Nyanje: Moja ya sababu kubwa ulizozieleza kuwa unaweza kuuthibitishia mkutano huu, ni kwamba uongo wa Mengi shutuma zake, sumu zake, chuki zake, zikiachwa ziendelee zinalipeleka pabaya taifa, umefanya hivyo kwa sababu yeye aliitisha Press Conference (mkutano na waandishi) akawashambulia ninyi.

Lakini na wewe leo umerudia hayohayo. Umeitisha mkutano na umemshambulia yeye. Je, wewe ni pamoja na yeye, kwamba mnalipeleka taifa pabaya?

Jibu la Rostam: Pale ambapo Bwana Mengi alitoa hizo tuhuma dhidi yangu, nadhani wote mnakumbuka majibu niliyoyatoa, sikuwa na sababu ya kuanza kutukanana, kujibizana na mzee yule.

Lakini baada ya kupitia kanda ya aliyoyasema, akizungumza na taifa zima na kueleza hii sumu kwamba baadhi yetu ndiyo sababu ya wao kuwa maskini, na ukichukulia kwamba mimi sitoki kwenye fleti, mimi ni mtu wa kijijini, ni mtu niliyechaguliwa na watu, mwanasiasa, najulikana nina wadhifa mkubwa, marafiki wengi na pia ni kiongozi niliye chaguliwa, nikaona ni vema kumbukumbu sahihi ziwekwe.

Kwanza kabisa ili kukana katakata yale ambayo amenituhumu, lakini pia kulinusuru taifa limjue Mengi ni nani. Ili asiendelee kufanya hizi vurugu zake wajue kwamba huyu mtu hana sifa ya kufanya hayo aliyoyafanya.

Najua ilikuwa ni decision (uamuzi) ngumu kidogo ya kufanya haya niliyoyafanya leo, lakini nilivyopima kati ya kufanya na kutokufanya, niliona ni bora nifanye ili kuwaelimisha Watanzania waache kusikiliza porojo za huyu bwana…hilo ndilo lengo la mkutano wangu.

Herbert Mkoko (Star Televisheni) aliuliza: Katika mkutano wake Mengi alizungumza kwamba mafisadi papa wamehusika katika kashfa zote kubwa hapa nchini.

Akataja TICTS (kampuni ya kupakua mizigo bandarini) Richmond, Dowans na zingine nyingi kubwa. Ungewasaidia sana Watanzania kama ungesema labda kwenye Dowans huna hiki na hiki, ama katika TICTS nina hisa moja na siyo 99 kama Mengi alivyosema kwa hivyo sina sauti kubwa katika maamuzi.

Ungetutajia maeneo hayo, ungewasaidia sana Watanzania kujua kuwa unasingiziwa na huhusiki na kashfa hizo na kutoa ukweli halisi.

Rostam: Mengi alivyotoa tuhuma zile amesema generally (jumla jumla) vitu vingi sana, lakini labda tuseme yale ambayo yamekuwa yakiimbwa siku zote kwamba Rostam anahusika na Dowans; ni kwamba niliishasema huko nyuma na niliitisha mkutano hapahapa na ukiangalia katika ripoti ya Mwakyembe (Dk. Harrison Mwakyembe) hakuna mahali popote ilipotajwa kuwa Rostam anahusika na Dowans.

Wala mimi si mmiliki wake, lakini nilishasema mapema, kwamba namfahamu mmiliki wa Dowans, na si kosa kumfahamu mmiliki wa kampuni yoyote ile (Bali ukweli ni kwamba Kamati teule ya Bunge inataja kampuni ya Dowans kuwa imetumia anwani za posta na barua pepe za kampuni ya Rostam ya Caspian na kwamba baadhi ya wafanyakazi wake wameonekana wakifanya kazi Dowans).

Bali hizi zimekuwa porojo za mitaani zilizotungwa na kuandikwa na kuandikwa mpaka watu waanze kuziona ni ukweli wenyewe. Mimi si mmiliki wa Dowans ila Dowans namfahamu mmiliki wake na si kama anavyosema Bwana Mengi. Mimi sihusiki katakata.
Mwandishi (jina halikupatikana): Rais wa Afrika Kusini alipokumbwa na tuhuma za rushwa na kuchafuliwa, mahakama ilimsafisha. Je, wewe huna mpango wa kwenda mahakamani ili kujisafisha?

Rostam: Siwezi kwenda mahakamani na kusema jamani mahakama naomba mnisafishe nina tuhuma hizi na hizi; ndiyo maana nilitoa changamoto kwamba kama unadhani mimi ndiye mhusika nipelekwe mahakamani ili sheria ichukue mkondo wake. Hadi sasa, mpaka sasa, hakuna mtu aliyefanya hivyo.

Saed Kubenea (MwanaHALISI): Nina maswali mawili tu, lakini huenda na mimi nitafanya mkutano wangu ili kukujibu wewe baada ya wewe kutuhumu gazeti letu (kicheko cha waandishi). Lakini kwa sasa ni maswali mawili madogo.

Moja, Mheshimiwa Rostam Aziz watu wengi wanakuheshimu sana kwamba una kifua cha kustahimili makombora. Lakini kwa mujibu wa nyaraka mbalimbali unatajwa kila mahali kuhusika na ukwapaji wa fedha za umma.

Kuna hili la wakili wa Mahakama Kuu Byidinka Sanze ambaye anasema katika hati yake ya kiapo kwamba wewe Rostam Aziz ndiye ulimuita katika ofisi zako, 50 Mirambo, na ukamwambia kwamba asaini mikataba ya Kagoda.

Je, ni kweli kwamba mikataba ya Kagoda ilisainiwa kwako? Je, ni kweli ulikuwepo kwenye kikao cha pamoja na Benjamin Mkapa na gavana Daudi Balali wa BoT juu ya Kagoda?

Je, ni kweli kwamba ulikuwepo kwenye kikao na Katibu Mkuu wa CCM wakati huo, Philip Mangula kupanga ukwapuaji katika Akaunti ya EPA? Ni kweli kwamba fedha za EPA zilitumika kumuweka Kikwete madarakani?

Swali la pili, kampuni yako ya New Habari Corporation juzi ilichapisha magazeti mawili tofauti. Kuna hili na hili (akionyesha matoleo mawili ya siku moja). Wewe kama mchapishaji, kwa nini uliamua kutoa magazeti mawili kwa siku moja? Ulikuwa unakusudia nini? Je, hujapata matatizo kutoka kwa Msajili wa Magazeti?

Gazeti moja kati ya haya, wanasema inasadikika kuwa gazeti la Rai linamilikuwa na Rostam Aziz. Je, wamekung’oa lini kama inasadikika kuwa wewe ndiye mmiliki ili tukupe pole?

Rostam: Nataka nisaidie, nimeishasema huko nyuma kwamba mimi sihusiki na tuhuma hizo ulizozisema. Huyo bwana uliyemtaja (Sanze) mimi simjui wala sijawahi kumwona. Simfahamu.

Lazima tujue kwamba nimesema hapa katika statement (maelezo) yangu kwamba kumekuwepo na watu wanaoamini kwamba Mengi ndiye kinara wao kwa kujaribu kutafuta kila njia ya kunichafua na kunibambikiza vitu ambavyo sihusiki navyo. Naendelea kukana kwamba sihusiki na tuhuma hizo hata kidogo.

Hili la pili la magazeti, mimi kwa kweli kwa bahati mbaya, au bahati nzuri niseme, kuwa sijihusishi na masuala ya uchapishaji wa magazeti pamoja na kwamba yanaweza yakawa yanamilikiwa na mimi; tofauti na wenzangu wenye kumiliki vyombo vya habari vingi.

Hata ofisi za Habari Corparation nimefika mara ya kwanza wiki mbili zilizopita baada ya muda mrefu sana. Kwa hiyo, hiyo habari iliyopo hapa ni ngeni kwangu, sijui kwa sababu sijihusishi na mambo hayo; litakuwa ni suala la palepale ofisini na jinsi walivyoona wanataka kuendesha majukumu yao. Mimi sihusiki wala sijui kama siku moja walichapisha magazeti mawili.

Mwandishi (jina lake halikupatikana): Tumemsikiliza Bwana Mengi akizungumza na wandishi wa habari au kwenye vyombo vya habari; sasa kuna nini kati yako wewe na Mengi?

Rostam: Ukweli ni kwamba tuhuma zote alizozitoa Mengi ni porojo na ni uzushi mtupu; nadhani mumenielewa.

Balile (Mtanzania la New Habari Corporation): Sasa lini unapeleka huo ushahidi polisi?

Rostam: Wakati wowote kuanzia sasa. Nitafanya hivyo…Tayari nimewasiliana na viongozi wa jeshi la polisi.

Kwa jumla hayo ndiyo maswali ambayo Rostam aliulizwa. Waandishi walishikwa na kigugumizi na kushindwa kumhoji mbunge tokea mwaka 1994, mjumbe wa Halmashauri Kuu (NEC) ya CCM.

Minong’ono iliyotawala mazungumzo ya wengi nje ya ukumbi wa mkutano ni kwa nini Rostam, kama anasema ukweli, akiwa kiongozi wa juu ndani ya chama tawala, amekuwa kimya kwa muda wote huo juu ya mtu ambaye, hata hivyo siyo mwanasiasa.

Katika mkutano huo, Rostam alimtuhumu Mengi kwamba anamtafuta binafsi baada ya kuona yeye (Rostam) ameingia kwenye umiliki wa vyombo vya habari.

Alisema, “Mengi ni nyangumi wa ufisadi. Nimeamua kumuondolea ngozi yake ya kondoo ambayo anawaonyesha Watanzania ili wamjue kuwa ni mbwa mwitu.”

Amesema yote ambayo Mengi amemhusisha, ni yeye anayehusika; si wao waliotuhumiwa. Ni Mengi, kwa mujibu wa Rostam aliyefilisi Benki ya Taifa ya Biashara (NBC) hadi serikali ikaibinafsisha kwa bei ya kutupwa.

Hakuishia hapo, alituhumu hadi gazeti hili – MwanaHALISI akisema, linafadhiliwa na Mengi ili kumchafua. Amesema ameamua kumuanika Mengi hadharani kwa kile alichoita, “kunusuru taifa.”

Kwa ujumla, Rostam alisema hadi siku hiyo, tayari Mengi alishafanikiwa kukwapua Sh. 28 bilioni kutoka serikalini kutokana na hatua yake ya kuchukua mikopo bila kurudisha.

Imekuwa ikidaiwa kuwa Rostam analindwa na watawala kwa kuwa tuhuma ambazo zinamwandama zimekuwa nzito na za kuanganiza uchumi wa taifa. Wapo wanaodai kuwa hata jeuri yake ya kutoka mbele na kujibizana na wanaomtuhumu inatokana na kuwa karibu na watawala.

Hata hivyo Rostam hakuvunja kiu ya waandishi wachache waliomuuliza maswali, kwani alisema kwa ujumla tu kuwa “hahusiki,” kama alivyodai siku zote huku ukiwepo ushahidi kedekede wa kuhusika kwake katika mambo mengi.

Bali waandishi wengi walionyesha kumshangaa Rostam pale alipodai kuwa MwanaHALISI linafadhiliwa na Mengi. “Hapa Rostam amechemsha,” alisema mmoja wa waandishi kutoka gazeti la serikali.

“MwanaHALISI lingekuwa linaendeshwa na Mengi lingekuwa pale vichochoroni walipomwagiwa tindikali? Hilo ameweka kukoleza tu,” alieleza mwandishi huyo huku akisema haraka kuwa asinukuliwe.

Mwandishi wa kitabu, Uhuru gerezani: Siku 90 za kufungiwa kwa MwanaHALISI, alisema kweli alipoandika kuwa gazeti hilo linaendeshwa misingi ya “machinga.”

Rostam anajua hilo, bali ni gazeti hili dogo ambalo katika toleo lake Na. 62 la 19 Septemba 2007 lilikuwa la kwanza nchini kuanika hadharani orodha na picha za watuhumiwa 11 wa ufisadi, Rostam akiwa mmoja wao na wakati huo Rostam akiwa hajagombana na Mengi.

Source: MwanaHalisi la last week.

Kwa mtazamo wangu nahisi TUHUMA ZA GT ZIMEANZIA HAPA soma sehemu ya Kubenea

Labda GT afafanue zaidi tuhuma zake. Jengine humu JF huwa wengi wetu tunaangalia thread imeanzishwa na nani, hatuangalii contents.

Mafisadi wananguvu ndugu zangu; wanaweza kumnunua yeyeto yule na kwa gharama yoyote ile.

Muhimu tufuatilie tuhuma ni za kweli au ni uzushi uzushi wa kijiweni; km ni kweli tufanye nini???

Amandlah

 

[Magezi]

Nadhani G T sasa hali ni mbaya, umepewa nini na wewe?? Au ndo umezidisha msokoto leo?

 

[Game Theory]

unfortunately, the tradition of speculation still rules; this is not the same as a tradition of intellectual exchange in the arena of ideas. The whole premise of the thread has no foundation in data nor debate. It is purely presumptive, speculative and absolutely destructive to the the very thing called debate.

The author has leaped illogically and superficially from imagination to claims of conclusive statements of facts. Such a leap in unwarranted and can not call for an honest "counter toe to toe". May I show this through a skillful and meticulous disection of the argument?

Kwanza, ni lini Kubenea alitoa ahadi hiyo ya mkutano wa kumwanika RA na wapi? (angalau tuwe na msingi wa kuanzia, maana kama hakukuwa na mkutano huo wala ahadi hiyo the whole thread collapses).

How does he know kuwa "amechomoa bila sababu za msingi"? Kutokutokea mahali siyo sawa na kutokuwa na sababu ya msingi. Kutokuwa na sababu ya msingi ni kuwa umemsikia sababu anazokupa na haziingii akilini; so, sababu gani imetolewa na Kubenea (assuming kulikuwa na mkutano huo) kiasi kwamba ni ambazo hazina "msingi" na sababu zipi zingekubalika kuwa ni za "msingi" na nani anayeamua sababu anazotoa mtu kuwa ni za msingi au la. Kama aliamua kulala apumzike je hiyo ni sababu ya msingi au la?

Huo mkutano ulitakiwa kufanyika Baleni Mafia mbele ya "ndugu, jamaa, na marafiki" kiasi kwamba tuambiwe kuwa kitendo cha kutofanyika kimewafanya hilo kundi kusikitika? Kama ilikuwa ni kikao cha familia sisi kinatuhusu nini? Kama kilikuwa cha manufaa kwa taifa kwanini wanafamilia waonekane kusikitishwa zaidi?

the functional word here is "inawezekana"... do we know how many things in this word are "possible or probable".. in other words the opposite is also true which means the reasoning is totally and intrinsically flawed.

Inawezekana is not a fact is hypothetical.. which means you can not have an intellectual debate soley and totally based on fabrication of one's own mind. Kwa sababu, naweza kusema easily RA inawezekana ni mtoto wa Nyerere! halafu tuanze kujadili urithi wake kwenye familia ya Nyerere!

now this is a statement of fact.. this is a definitive statement that "Kubenea" ameitukana "saaaaaana" serikali ya JK na JK mwenyewe "akidai (kwamba kitendo hicho kinaendelea, this is present participle) kuwa ni "fisadi". Lets pause for a second and question our sanity.. lini, wapi na kwa namna gani Kubenea aliwahi kumuita JK ni "fisadi". The burden of proof is not on Kubenea to prove that he didn't say that or claim that, the burden of proof is on the author to prove that he did.

such a wide gate of possibilities, I dare not walk through it!

The author claims that there was a meeting between Lowassa and Kubenea, this is a claim of fact. And that, in this alleged meeting there was a promise given and because the promise was not fulfilled then Kubenea resorted to "kuitukana barabara serikali ya JK kuwa ni ya kifisadi". What a charge! Again, the burden of proof is not on Kubenea but on the author to show (even remotely) that this indeed did happen.

"Mpaka" simply means, that after this things changed. That the incident was transformational to Kubenea. How is this?

Hapa tunajiuliza walipia toka mifuko yao na fedha zao binafsi? au walilipa kutoka fedha za serikali ambazo ni za wananchi wa taifa hili? Kama ilikuwa ni kutoka mifuko yao binafsi "mafisadi hao hao" then ipo hoja, lakini kama fedha ni za serikali, ina maana Kubenea ana haki nazo kama Mtanzania mwingine yeyote anayehitaji huduma ya namna hiyo. Ni kama walivyomsaidia Athuman Khamisi au mgonjwa mwingine. Ufisadi wa mtu serikalini haufanyi hela ya serikali kuwa ni haram!

the argument here claims to know that "price ya Kubenea ni ndogo sana". How does someone know that except that he/she has a personal knowledge of such a thing? Which begs the question, how much is "ndogo sana"?

The last parts are purely for your entertainment..

A great leap from imagination to conclusion of a fact! Jajji yeyote atakutimua mahakani for such a leap!

na tena..

so basically this was the purpose all along to finally say "fisadi huyu" without showing logically or methodically how you reach such a conclusion. Is this based on "inawezekana, nadhania n.k" Well.. if this is what an intellectual "interchange" is then intellectual has lost its meaning...

well.. if we need something resembling "intellectual".. we have to bring something intellectual.. don't you agree?

NB: Full disclosure.. I'm a columnist for MwanaHalisi.

 

[Killuminati]

Madhara ya bangi bila kula ni makubwa kuliko tunavyoweza kufikiria....

......is this from the experience?

 

[Shaycas]

madhara ya bangi bila kula ni makubwa kuliko tunavyoweza kufikiria....

.,.ahsante

 

[Recta]

Rostam Ashindwa Kujibu Hoja, Abambika Tuhuma

Na Saed Kubenea

Saed Kubenea (MwanaHALISI): Nina maswali mawili tu, lakini huenda na mimi nitafanya mkutano wangu ili kukujibu wewe baada ya wewe kutuhumu gazeti letu (kicheko cha waandishi). Lakini kwa sasa ni maswali mawili madogo.

Kutokana na maelezo yanayosomeka kwenye habari hiyo hapo juu (nime nakili sehemu tu), ni dhahiri kuwa Kubenea hakumaanisha kuwa alikuwa na nia ya kufanya press conference yoyote, zaidi ya kutaka kuonyesha kuwa, tabia inayojitokeza ni kwa kila anaemsema mwenzake kwenye press conference inabidi ijibiwe kwa press conference (kama alivyofanya RA). Kauli aliyoitoa inaonyesha alitaka kutania utaratibu huo unaoendelea kushamiri.

Maneno kama "huenda na mimi nitafanya mkutano ..." hayatoi ahadi yoyote ya kufanya press conference, zaidi ya kudhihirisha haja ya kufanya hivyo kutokana na RA kumsema kwenye press conference yake.

 

[Game Theory]

Kubenea amedai kuwa anazo data za kuonyesha mkutano uliofanyika Ikulu na kaambiwa go ahead with your press conference...watu kule Baleni wamesubiri wee lakini wapi hakuna kilichofanyika

Kubenea kulikoni?

 

[Bluray]

GT,

Your integrity is on life support, granted Kubenea is a shabby reporter, as shabby as most of our reporters - though purpotedly among the top echelon of what passes for the press in bongo- but why this apparently unfounded (some would argue ill-founded)crusade?

 

[Game Theory]

GT,

Your integrity is on life support, granted Kubenea is a shabby reporter, as shabby as most of our reporters - though purpotedly among the top echelon of what passes for the press in bongo- but why this apparently unfounded (some would argue ill-founded)crusade?

Integrity yangu iko questioned kwa sababu nimekataa kumuunga mkono Mengi?

lakini zaidi ya hayo...according to WIKIPEDIA:

Crusades were a series of religion-driven military campaigns waged by much of Latin Christian Europe against external and internal opponents. They were fought mainly against Muslims,

mhhh CRUSADE...what exactly do you mean?