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KLH Exclusive: ATC yatumia Milioni 400 ku"pimp our plane"

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Mzee Mwanakijiji, Feb 5, 2008.

  1. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #1
    Feb 5, 2008
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    Inasikitisha lakini kweli.. hiyo siyo ile mpya ambayo kiongozi wetu mpendwa anajiandaa kuangusha saini yake. Hilo ni lile kolokolo lililokuwa pimped up kwenye "gereji" ya kampuni ya Aeroman huko El Salvador. ...

    Ndege hiyo ambayo ilikuwa ni ya Air Jamaica kiumri ina chini ya miaka 10 tu lakini uharibifu wake ni kama mtu alikuwa anaikomoa. Mchunguzi wenu toka KLH News anaripoti kuwa licha ya gharama ya kuipaka rangi ATC imetumia hadi hivi sasa karibu shilingi bilioni moja kama malipo mbalimbali ya kuiwezesha ndege hiyo kuingizwa nchini.

    Sasa hivi dege hilo linafanyiwa mpango wa kurushwa na kuletwa Tanzania...



    To be continued.
     
  2. Dua

    Dua JF-Expert Member

    #2
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    Wajinga ndio waliwao.
     
  3. M

    Mugo"The Great" JF-Expert Member

    #3
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    Mungu tunusuru na Viongozi walafi. Itakuja kuwa zigo la walalahoi kwa matengenezo ya mara kwa mara, achilia mbali uwezekano wa kusababisha maafa.
     
  4. K

    Koba JF-Expert Member

    #4
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    ...lakini kama ina chini ya miaka 10 kwa lifespan ya ndege hiyo ni mpya kabisa na ndege nyingi zinazoruka states zina average ya 20 yrs,hayo mengine sijui maana ufisadi ulivyojaa siwezi kusema kitu
     
  5. M

    Mkandara Verified User

    #5
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    Duh Mwanakijiji hizi habari kweli?... Billioni moja!...hiyo haiwezi kuwa down payment ya ndege mpya?...
    Hivi kweli nchi yetu imekosa credit ya kutuwezesha ku lease with option ya kununua ndege mpya BOIENG...
     
  6. K

    Koba JF-Expert Member

    #6
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    lakini jamani kabla ya kuanza kushangaa hizo price mngeanza kujiuliza bei halisi ya hizo ndege,unajua unapoongelea dola laki nne za maintenance kwa ndege kubwa kama hiyo ya airbus nafikiri ni pesa ndogo sana,hizo ndege hatuna uwezo wa kununua mpya labda tungekeuwa na CEOs wenye akili la sivyo itakuwa hasara mara mbili....hizo ndege mjue zinacost zaidi ya dola millioni mia moja au zaidi ya shilingi billion mia moja,ni gharama kubwa sana kununua kwa uchumi wetu maskini na CEOs wetu wanaoendesha mambo kisiasa na kupeana favor.
     
  7. Lunyungu

    Lunyungu JF-Expert Member

    #7
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    Mkandara Ufisadi ni mbaya . Wanafika mahali hawajali na wanaumia maguvu badaye tunayaona yakiwaumiza maguvu yao .
     
  8. M

    Mkandara Verified User

    #8
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    Koba,
    Hakuna shirika hata moja linalonunua ndege kwa cash bali hutolewa mkopo with interest (under contract) kwa hiyo hizo gharama zisikutishe ikiwa umeshafanya physical study ya biashara nzima ya usafiri wa ndege...Hilo gari tu watu hukopa itakuwa ndege mjomba?
     
  9. K

    Koba JF-Expert Member

    #9
    Feb 5, 2008
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    ...true mjomba lakini ATCL kwa credit gani waliyonayo kupewa hiyo line of credit,NO any financial inst. wanaoweza kuwapa loan ATCL angalia vitabu vyao tuu utagundua ni sifuri na uzima wao unategemea bail out ya JK la sivyo ile sio kampuni na wwala sio ya kuongelea
     
  10. M

    Mkandara Verified User

    #10
    Feb 5, 2008
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    Koba,
    Well the government wanaweza simama kama wadhamini (co signer) kwani hilo linatumika na linakubalika ktk ulimwengu huu wa biashara. Mashirika mengi ya Umma yaliyokaribia kufirisika, serikali zao hutia mguu wakazikomboa kwa mikopo toka ndani ama nje.
    Sidhani kama viongozi wetu hawafahamu hili ikiwa wamepata mikopo kwa ajili ya Tanesco na makampuni mengineyo..
    Mjomba Tanzania ni wizi mtupu kwani hata Bandari itazame walikuwa wakilipa kodi kubwa wakati ikiwa chini ya serikali (shirika la Umma) leo hii tunaambia halipati faida mara oooh vifaa na kadhalika kiasi kwamba serikali haipati makusanyo ya kodi kihalali. Tazama basi vifaa vyao vyote ni used, Haya hiyo shirika la reli wanatucheza vilevile na vitu used kiasi kwamba watu wameisha jua kuwa Tanzania ni jalala...
     
  11. K

    Koba JF-Expert Member

    #11
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    ...very sad indeed mkuu,tena hao wahindi waliochukua Railway inasikitisha sana na nina uhakika hawajaweka pesa yao hata kidogo zaidi ya kuja kukusanya ticket fair na kukimbia,lakini yote hii ni kuwa na viongozi incompetent na wala rushwa ambao wanatuletea mikataba mibovu kama hii na huko bandari wala usiseme maana nina mzee mmoja ambaye ni mmtu wa karibu sana kwangu na ni one wa board members huwa ananipa insiders za umafia wa huko ni mkubwa kuliko hata ule wa BOT,tumebaki kupigia kelele BOT lakini virtually ile nchi inaliwa kila kona na hakuna hata siku moja tutaendelea naamini.Dawa ni kuuza hayo makampuni yote kuanzia Railway,ATCL,Tanesco kwa market price kwa makampuni yenye uwezo wa kudeliver sisi tukusanye kodi tuu lakini haya mambo ya ruzuku kila mwaka kwa Tanesco na ATCL ndio mwanzo wa rushwa tuu na huduma mbovu
     
  12. M

    Mkandara Verified User

    #12
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    Koba,
    Duh! yauzwe?..... mjomba umesahau 10% ama mawaziri wenyewe kuwa owners!..lini tumeleta genuine kampuni nchini kama sio hizo bank za sijui Green walokimbia na fedha kisha serikali imeshindwa ati kufuatilia. I mean when is Interpol. Donda letu limeshindikana hakuna dawa uncle...
    Just imagine Karamagi kaamua leo Bandari haifunguliwi kwa sababu mnamtukana kwenye issue za Buzwagi mtafanya nini?. Kifupi naogopa hata hao wauzaji wanavyogawa hizo tender..kumbuka Richmond!
    Noo, mjomba nafikiri njia ni kuondoa vibaraka hawa yaani tupate dikteta mmoja kama Idi Amin kwa miaka miwili tu inatosha..
     
  13. K

    Koba JF-Expert Member

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    ...nafikiri umesahau kwamba sio kwa sababu umeuziwa basi unaweza kufanya chochote unachoamua,ingekuwa hivyo mjomba basi corporate ingekuwa inazima umeme inapojisikia,kumbuka hata kama umeuziwa still unabanwa na sheria nyingi tuu za kuhakikisha unafanya unachotakiwa na mara nyingi sheria ni kali sana na zinaweza kukuweka in bankrupty na sijui utawaambia nini shareholder,mjomba you have to deliver ukishindwa ujue na kampuni yako imekufa au imepata hasara kubwa sana ambayo hutaitaka kusikia,mikataba ya kampuni za umeme sio kama kuendesha Hotel,mfano California kampuni za umeme zinapewa quaters za kuzalisha kutokana na licence zao na mahitaji ya state,sasa ole wako ushindwe kwa sababu ambazo zinakubalika(zipo wazi zinaeleweka) basi hapo mjomba kila MW moja utakayoshindwa kudeliver ujue ina cost yake per day ambayo inaweza kufikia dola milion moja kwa siku na hiyo ni sheria moja tuu,kuna namna ya kuyabana hayo makampuni yafanye kazi na wala hakuan haja ya kuogopa.
     
  14. M

    Mbangaizaji Senior Member

    #14
    Feb 5, 2008
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    Wakuu mi nilipata nafasi ya kumsikia DM(ATCL CEO) kwenye karedio kamoja cha FM asubuhi moja kuhusu hii issue hapa Tanzania. Alichosema yeye ni kama ifuatavyo:-
    1. Kweli ndege hii ilikuwa ya Air Jamaica na ilikuwa inaruka kwenda USA.Kwahiyo ilipass flying standards za USA.
    2. Umri wa hiyo ndege ni miaka 11. na kwa International Standard bado ni ndege mbichi. Maana hata huko marekani average age ya fleet zao ni 15-16 years
    3. ATCL wamelease hiyo ndege kwa miaka 6. Hawajainunua.
    4. Recommendation ya kulease hiyo ndege walipewa na Air Bus maana wanampango wa kununua ndege kwao.Na walifahamu ATCL wana shida na ndege kwa sasa.
    5.Air bus ndo wanaoifanyia full check up(hapa alituamia technical term lakini nilivyoelewa ni kama dry dock ya meli yaani kila kitu kinafumuliwa nakuchekiwa)
    6. Waataalam wa ATCL pamoja na wale wa Mamlaka ya Ndege nchini walikwenda na kuverify air worthness ya hiyo ndege na ilipasi kuruhusiwa kuruka nchini
    7. Kulikuwa na matengenezo ambayo vendor alitakiwa ayafanye na mengine ATCL ilitaki kuyafanya(eg. Kubadilisha cushions, rangi ya ndege(maana ilikuwa na rangi za Air Jamaica), alama za kiswahili etc)
    8. Ni kweli kampuni illiyoikodisha ATCl imekuwa registered Liberia kwa ajili ya tax benefits za nchi hiyo kwa investors.

    Hayo ndo yalikuwa maelezo yake DM.Ila hakuzungumzia kuhusu Swala la Al Salvador na kama huko ndipo ipo service bay ya Airbus.
     
  15. M

    Morani75 JF-Expert Member

    #15
    Feb 5, 2008
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    Mbangaizaji, habari njema sana.... Hapo ndipo nilikuwa nataka kujua, ni "leased" au "purchase" na imeonekana ni leased..... Na kwa haraka kutokana na maelezo yako hapo ni "dry lease".... Hivyo kwangu swala sio umri wala ndege inafaa au haifai, tayari tunajua tumekodi kwa hiyo kuna vigezo kwenye mkataba na kama dege likishindwa kufikia tuna-walk out of it (costs repercussions etc depends on the agreement)

    Nakumbuka kuna wakati tulikodisha dege ya B767 kutoka ET, well pale mambo yalitushinda nadhani tukaamua kuachana nayo, benefits zake kwa kweli siwezi sema kwa sababu ilimalizwa kimya kimya.

    Mimi kwa sasa concern yangu kubwa ni kwenye "AGREEMENT" yenyewe.... Lakini since all is done tuombe Mungu kwamba dege lije and liwe sucessful manake tutasema tumechinjwa endapo tu "dege lishindwe perform in the 6 yrs contract period na tushindwe ku-walk out hustle/costs free, OK even at lowest possible damage"

    Hivyo kwangu nadhani hii issue ni clear cut, mkataba uangaliwe unasemaje sababu kuiponda ndege ya kukodi ni sawa na kumcheka anayekodisha taksi "Pijo 404" eti sababu ya zamani wakati hiyo na new baluni zote zakufikisha uendapo kwa usalama na pengine starehe kubwa tuuu....Tungoje ile Pijo ife kisha tumcheke jamaa kwa kuwa mpumbavu kiasi hicho manake tunaweza shangaa lile Pijo tulilobonda ndio likawa boomba kwa sana kuliko "baluni jipya"
     
  16. M

    Mwana_epa Member

    #16
    Feb 5, 2008
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    Morani75 nimekupata,

    Ila dalili zinaonesha litakuwa bomu tu.....chochote ambacho watanzania wanakipigia kelele tokea mwanzo ujue 98% kitakuwa na matatizo. Naamini haya malalamiko yametoka ndani ya ATCL, wao wana utaalamu wa ndege, the deal imeingiwa tu kukidhi mahitaji ya watu fulani, the agrieved decided to speak out. Kama kingekuwa kizuri wasingelalamika, kwani kiukweli kuna contracts nyingi tu zinaingiwa bila malalamiko n nyingi do perform.

    Kuhusu mfano wa baluni jipya na pijo 404, hata uswahilini huwezi kodi haya magari mawili at the same price, hili pijo 404 lazima bei iwe chini. Na starehe haiwezi kuwa sawa....Sasa ikija kwenye suala la uendeshaji wa hilo dege, jua itakuwa spana mkononi, repairs and maintenance costs lazima ziwe juu sana. N then hiyo pimpin wanayofanya sidhani kama itaileta kwenye hali nzuri sana, then dont expect customers to be satisfied.

    By the way kitu kuhalalishwa na mamlaka ya anga sio ishu, they may be influenced tu by vimemo kutoka juu....

    Ila tuiombee ATCL kila la kheri
     
  17. Shukurani

    Shukurani JF-Expert Member

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    Mie nilisha acha kusafiri na Air Tanzania kwa sababu hizo hizo za ndege chakavu. Siku moja niliyosafiri nayo iliruka ikashindwa kuendelea ikarudi chini,then ikairusha tena ikashindikana, nikashuka nidai naulu yangu wakachukua percentage yao,nikaachana nao moja moja
     
  18. M

    Morani75 JF-Expert Member

    #18
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    Mwana epa, nimekupata "loud and clear" na pale penye PIJO na BALUNI ndipo haswa nilipokuwa nahimiza.... Kwa nini, unajua tatizo lipo kwetu sisi watumiaji/waamuaji. Siku zote twaenda kwa cheapest tukisahau kuwa cheap ni expensive in kind!!! Sasa kwa vile tulienda cheap, swala ni kwamba mkataba wetu rahisi unasemaje??

    UKiangalia katika mambo yote yanayotukabili kosa ni kwenye mikataba, twende ATCL (SAA deal), TANESCO (NET Grp), TTCL, Richmond, etc etc etc.... Sisemi nakubaliana na wale wanaoingia mikataba lakini kwa upeo wangu ni kwamba kuna mapungufu makubwa kwenye:
    1. Attorney General's chamber - legal issues
    2. Procurement Regulations - tendering and awarding
    3. Bunge - kupitisha mikataba hii (hivi inapitishwa na Bunge ee, manake inaweza kuwa ni hadithi tuu)
    4. PSRC - hawa ndio kilaz sababu wao wameweka sheria "zinazowavutia wawekezaji" ambapo to me ni kutunyonga wanyonge na kutajirisha mafisadi wa ndani na wa nje (wawekezaji uchwara)

    Bottom line, huo mkataba nadhani inabidi uangaliwe kiumakini ndipo tuweze kuwa na "conclusive argument on quality and advantage" kwa taifa... Kusikiliza wafanyakazi pekee ni vizuri lakini we all know kila mahali kuna mambo yake hivyo ni bora tuangalie ukweli ndipo tushutumu.... Narudia, mimi ni mmoja wa wale walipinga hili lakini kuna mengi inaonekana hatukujua kabla na ninegependa tuwekewe (kwa wanaojua) kisha tuweze kumkoma nyani.......
     
  19. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #19
    Feb 5, 2008
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    Hatukuinunua wakati inaruka. Mbona hakusema ni kwa muda gani ilikuwa out of service?

    Hilo ndilo linasumbua sana kwani ndege bado ni changa lakini ubovu wake umekithiri.

    Ndiyo wamekodisha (dry lease) kwa mkataba wa milioni 30.. (Koba new airbus inagharimu kati ya milioni 60 na sabini na tano hivi na kutegemea na ngapi bei inaweza kushuka zaidi.)

    Walipewa pendekezo la kununua Airbus, lakini not that one specifically.

    not really..!

    Wataalamu hawa walienda lini? clue, after the contract has already been signed.

    Understatament, siku chache zijazo nitaweka hadharani ubovu wote na matengenezo yote na mtaamua kama yalikuwa ni matengenezo ya kawaida.

    yeah.. of course!

    Na nina uhakika hakuzungumzia ofa za Airbus nyingine na wala jitihada za kupata used Airbus in Europe or US..
     
  20. Kasheshe

    Kasheshe JF-Expert Member

    #20
    Feb 5, 2008
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    By the way, do we really need ATCL? We already have Community Airline and Precision so no monopoly...

    I think it was appropriate time to liquidate ATCL, as the industry already have competition and hence the majority will benefit.

    for government services they already have Government Flight Agency.

    Let not thinking always backup, it is not necessary for us to have ATCL
     
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