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Kipi bora: Uhuru au Ukoloni??

Discussion in 'International Forum' started by MzalendoHalisi, Mar 29, 2009.

  1. M

    MzalendoHalisi JF-Expert Member

    #1
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    Mayotte votes on ties with France

    Leo hii Visiwa vya Mayotte wanapiga kura kama wapate uhuru au waendelee kuwa chini ya Mfaransa!

    Chini ya Mfaransa visiwa hivi vyenye watu 200,000 Politically have been Stable unlike Komoro ambao walipenda kuwa huru 1970's ambapo kumekuwa na mapinduzi zaidi ya mara 20!

    Kiuchumi Mayotte per capita income ni karibu mara 10 zaidi ya jirani zao Comoro ingawa 50% wa watu hawajui kusoma wala kuandika!

    Inavyoonekana Mayotte watapiga kura kuendelea kuwa chini ya Mkoloni!

    Hiii imekaaje?

    Lipi Bora: Mkoloni au Uhuru? Hivi nchi za Afrika na Tz leo watu wakiulizwa wanapenda Mwingireza/ukoloni au tuendelee kuwa uhuru je watu wangeamuje?

    Nini Tanzania tunaweza kujifunza hapo?

    BBC NEWS | Europe | Mayotte votes on ties with France
     
  2. Cynic

    Cynic JF-Expert Member

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    Inategemea perceived definition ya ''uhuru na ukoloni''. Hapa naona kama Mayotte wako huru - kuna demokrasia na wananchi wanashirikishwa ktk mambo yanayowahusu kwa kupiga kura (referundum). nadhani issue hapa ni ''alliance/muungano vs. statusquo'' Zaidi ya hapo wana maisha bora - kitu ambacho ni cha msingi zaidi.
     
  3. Dark City

    Dark City JF-Expert Member

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    Inaweza kuonenakana rahisi kujibu hili swali lakini tukitumia mifano halisi labda tunaweza kujaribu kupata jibu. Je Jaramogi Oginga Odinga alipoandika kitabu "Not yet uhuru alikuwa sahihi"? Je nchi zetu ziko huru? Je kama ziko huru tunafaidi huo uhuru? Kuna maswali mengi sana ambayo tunaweza kuuliza na majibu yake yatakuwa mengi na tofauti pia. Na mengine yatakuwa siyo ya moja kwa moja (yaani ndiyo au hapana).

    Kwa hiyo naweza kusema kama watu hawaoni faidi ya kuwa na uhuru kwa maana ya kutawaliwa na wenyeji lakini wakiendekeza ufisadi na ukabila basi ni afadhali tuwe na mawakala tu wanaomwakilisha mkoloni. Kwa sababu kwa mwananchi wa kawaida kinachoangaliwa ni ustawi wake na watoto wake. Iwe anaupata toka kwa wakoloni au wazalendi hilo si muhimu sana. Kama tukifuatilia sana basi tunaweza kuanza kuhohi jamaa zetu wanaoishi ugenini. Je hao wako huru??
     
  4. Mhafidhina

    Mhafidhina JF-Expert Member

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    Kwa mtazamo wangu naona bora ukoloni, ninasema hivi nikiwa na sababu za kutosha.

    pamoja na kwamba ukoloni unamambo yake ikiw ani pamoja na kuwa kibaraka wa mkoloni, lakini kwa sisi nchi za afrika naona ukoloni ndio njia ya pekee ya kutuletea maendeleo na kutuwezesha kufanikiwa.

    Mfano, tokea wakoloni waondoke kwenye nchi zetu hakuna maendeleo yoyote ya miundombinu yaliofanyika kwa zaidi ya miaka hamsini sasa na hata ile tuliyoachiwa tumeshindwwa hata kuiendeleza.

    Angalia Reli tu kwa mfano. Mpaka leo hii nchi kama tanzania imeshindwa hata kujenga reli ya kilometa kumi tu zaidi ya ile reli tuliojengewwa na wakoloni.

    Angalia Viwanja vya ndege, angalia hospotali kubwa (KCMC, Bugando), angalia shule nzuri (Pugu, Iliboru, Umbwe, Tosamaganga, etc). Angalia Chuo kikuu cha Dar es Salaam. hivyo vyote vilijengwa na wakoloni.

    Tunzungumzie kilimo, wakoloni wao ndio walio tuletea Kahawa, Mkonge pamoja na mazao mengine ya biashara. Leo hii angalia yale mashamba ya mkonge au ya kahawa yalioanzishwa na wakoloni yapo wapi?

    Viwanda je? (Viwanda vya kahawa, viwanda vya sukari, viwanda vya ngozi) etc.

    Wakati wa ukoloni kulikua hakuna ufisadi, indeed wale waliokua wanaonekana kuwa ni wakatili au waliokua wakipinga amri walinyingwa mbele ya umali, ili kukomesha tabia za ajabu na zisizoeleweka kwenye jamii. Leo hii, kuwa fisadi ni dili tena ni heshima kwenye jamii.

    Tulilia kuw ahuru, sasa angalia kinachotupata sasa UKOLONI MAMBOLEO ambao ndio mbaya kabisa. Huu ukoloni mabo leo ndio unakuja na sera za hata kuangamiza vile viwanda na miundo mbinu michache waliojenga.

    Mimi namuunga mkono mangi Meli ambaye alipingana na Nyerere akimwambia yeye haoni sababu ya kuwa huru na kuwa masikini, ni bora aendelee kutawaliwa lakini yeye na wananchi wake wawe na maisha bora.

    Wachilia mbali ukoloni, tuzungumzie hata kule Iraq ambako sadam alikua Dictator. Wamarekani na washirika zake walijiunga wakamuondoa Sadam madarakani kwa kisingizio hicho cha kuondoa Ukoloni wa Kidicteta wa Sadam na Kuweka Uhuru wa Democrasia. Leo hii Iraq iko wapi?

    The same applies to us, Tanzania and Afrika at large, tulitaka uhuru, akini leo hii tuko wapi?
     
  5. M

    MzalendoHalisi JF-Expert Member

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    Mhafidhina,

    Je ni bora warudi wakoloni?

    Did we get Indepepence in Africa pre-maturely?

    Remember many countries waged a war to get such independence!

    I may argue that many African countries are in transition to development: say such transition is taking so long!!

    Remember other coutries Malaysia, India and Singapore were also colonies and they have graduated from poverty and are being treated as 1st world!

    Brazil which was under Portugiuese is an economic power.. with a better economic muscle than Portugal the formal master!

    As Nyani Ngabu says 'sisi ndo jinsi tulivyo'- Why are we not advancing in the same pace as Asians or Latin Americans?

    What is wrong?
     
  6. M

    MzalendoHalisi JF-Expert Member

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  7. K

    Kwaminchi Senior Member

    #7
    Mar 30, 2009
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    Wakuu,

    Ninavyofahamu mimi, na si lazima iwe sahihi, watawala wa kifaransa, kabla ya kuwapa uhuru waliowatawala waliulizwa kwanza kama wangependa kuendelea kuwa huru chini ya utawala wa ufaransa au kuwa huru chini ya utawala wao wenyewe.

    Wale waliopendelea kuwa huru chini ya utawala wa ufaransa walihesabiwa na kuheshimiwa kuwa kama mkoa wa ufaransa nje ya ufaransa. Kama kawaida ya kitu chochote pana faida na hasara zake. Faida kizidi hasara kitu kinaitwa kizuri na hasara ikizidi faida kinakuwa kibaya. Hakuna kizuri tu au kibaya tu.

    Katika kujibu swali hili hapa, inatubidi kwanza tuchambue ka kujua ukoloni ni nini na mkoloni ni nani na uhuru ni kitu gani. Je, mkoloni kaondoka kweli Afrika? Je, uhuru tulioutarajia ndio huu tulionao? Nafikiri tuna maswali mengi sana ya kujiuliza kuliko majibu tuliyonayo.

    Kwa bahati nzuri mimi binafsi nimewahi kuvitembelea visiwa hivi vya Mayotte. Ingawa anayejua wapi kiatu kinabana ni mvaaji peke yake, lakini niliyoyaona kule sitashangaa nikisikia wamechagua kuendelea kubaki chini ya utawala wa ufaransa, Na ningekuwa mpiga kura huko, kura yangu ingesema hivyo.

    Wakati mwingine ukitazama jinsi serikali nyingi za Kiafrika zinavyoendeshwa na vikundi vya wajanja wachache, mtu anaweza akasema kuwa baadhi ya watawala wetu hawana tofauti na mkoloni. Unaona wazi kabisa kuwa vikundi hivyo ni kama wakoloni wale wale tofauti ni rangi ya ngozi zao.
     
  8. Edson

    Edson JF-Expert Member

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    kwa hapa kwetu kra zikipigwa kulingana na hali ya mambo na nchi invyokwenda basi 55% watapig kura za mkolon arud,
     
  9. Fidel80

    Fidel80 JF-Expert Member

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    Hiyo kura tunge piga hapa Tanzania mi ningepiga Ukoloni tu wazembe wazembe watendaji wangekuwa wanakula mboko tu maendeleo yangeonekana.Haina maana kuwa na Uhuru Tanzania huku watendaji wakuu wanatutia kichefu chefu.
     
  10. mwakatojofu

    mwakatojofu JF-Expert Member

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    mababu na mabibi zetu wengi walikufa wakipigania uhuru. siamini kama walichokipigania ilikuwa kuondoka mkoloni pekee. halafu akiondoka ndo itakuwaje? maisha yatakuwa mazuri zaid? au yatabaki vilevile?

    kuna raha yake kuongozwa na mtu mwenye ngozi kama yako? pekee hiyo inatosha?

    wazungu na waarabu kuondoka ilikuwa lazima. lakin ilikuwa muhimu sisi wenyewe tuanze kuyaendesha mambo yetu vizuri baada ya wageni kuondoka. baada ya kuondoka wageni tunaona tunapiga hatua za pole pole kuelekea 'maendeleo' na baadhi ya watu wanasema bora enzi zile kulikuwa na hiki na kile ambacho leo hakionekani au kinaenda vibaya. matokeo yake watu wanataka 'kutawaliwa' tena

    mambo mengi hayakwenda vizuri baada ya kupata uhuru kwasababu tulikosa maarifa ya jinsi ya kujiendesha wenyewe. hatukuwa na wataalamu katika maeneo mengi. uzalendo mdogo. ubunifu mdogo. jamaa wananunua vitu vyetu kwa bei ya chini wanaenda kuvibadilishabadilisha wanavileta tena na kutuuzia kwa bei ya juu sana. na tulikosa kujiamini pia. siku zile mpaka siku hizi raisi ya nchi ya afrika haoni kama amekamilika mpaka asifiwe na mzungu. kwanini tusilost?
     
  11. B

    Bama New Member

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    Sup guys!! much from birmingham, alabama
     
  12. shiumiti

    shiumiti JF-Expert Member

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    Kwa jibu tu la haraka haraka ni afadhali ukoloni, maana tungejifunza japo ujanja wa wenzetu, then tungefight for uhuru...
    Uhuru tumeupata kipindi ambacho sisi bado ni wajinga kwa asilimia kubwa. Kwa mtazamo wangu mimi, ilikuwa ni mapema mno....
     
  13. M

    MTZ Halisi New Member

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    Nakubaliana na wewe Shiumiti
    maana sisi tungekubali mkoloni atutawale kwanza atupangie miji na kutujengea barabara nzuri na kutuletea maendeleo kidogo then ndio tungedai uhuru wetu sasa tukadai uhuru wakati sisi wenyewe bado mambumbumbu sasa ona faida yake. Mafuriko, Wizi, Magonjwa na nk lakini bado hatusikii somo wala hatuelewi somo tumekalia chama cha mapinduzi inabidi siku moja tusikie kitu kingine tofauti ambacho kipya na kitainua watu kiakili na kimawazo.
     
  14. N

    Nasolwa JF-Expert Member

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    Ukoloni ni bora kuliko uhuru na hasa kama tungeendelea kuwa chini ya ukoloni wa Kijerumani na sio wa Kiingereza
     
  15. F

    Felister JF-Expert Member

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    Uhuru wa kweli unaambatana na responsibility pamoja na accountability kama unaona hutoweza hayo kwaajili ya wellbeing yako ni bora kuwa chini ya utawala wa hao ambao watakuwa responsible na accountable kwako. Kwa haraka haraka watu wengi hawajui kusoma wala kuandika inamaana hawana knowledge ya dunia inayotawala sasa so uhuru kwao utakuwa wa bendera lakini watakuwa tegemezi kwa watu wenye elimu ya dunia inayotawala either minority within the country or the supper power France through a remote control ya vibaraka watakao waweka kwa faida yao. Ask your self how much of the value is added to Tanzania's people welfare as compared to what was the wellbeing before independence and assuming we could have been under colonial powers how life could have been better or worse as compared to what we now have ? Then any realistic answer you would come up with will tell you wether it is worty to be Independent or continued to be under castodianship of the colonial masters.

    The conclusion on my side is if you are not responsible and accountable to your well being then it better to remain under somebody who can be responsible and accountable for you than to be free; and this is the challenge of freedom. Many like freedom yes but what if you would be freed and do not add value to your freedom? Its not the title that lead its the capacity to influence change to the direction you want that is why we have leaders and managers.
     
  16. Joel

    Joel JF-Expert Member

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    Uhuru tunaozungumzia hapa sijui ni uhuru upi maana sisi tanzania tuna miaka zaidi ya 40 ya uhuru lakini badala ya kwenda mbele tunarudi nyuma sasa sijui kama tungekuwa bado tunatawaliwa na waingireza tungekuwa tumepiga hatua gani mbele na faida au hasara zingekuwa vipi.
    Hii issue ni pana sana na inahitaji muda mrefu kuichambua na kuifafanua
     
  17. Junius

    Junius JF-Expert Member

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    kwani si vyema tungekuwa na ukoloni wa kimaendeleo kuliko uhuru wa kukandamizana!
     
  18. Hebrew

    Hebrew JF-Expert Member

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    Nakuunga mkono kwenye hili. Mimi naona sisi waafrika tume prove kuwa hatuwezi kujitawala wenyewe. Mimi binafsi naona afadhali tu wakoloni warudi tena afrika kukutawala kwa muda (mfano 10-20 years) ili vizazi vijavyo vijifunze toka kwao.

    Wakati mwingine nafikiria pia wakoloni walituacha wakati hatujawa tayari kujitawala (wachache walikuwa na elimu na vipaja vya kuongoza).
     
  19. Oxlade-Chamberlain

    Oxlade-Chamberlain JF-Expert Member

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    mkoloni anaweza kuwa bora ukiangalia utawala wa ccm. uhuru una raha yake kama viongozi watafanya kazi kwa manufaa ya watu wote sio wao binafsi tu.mkoloni hawezi kutubagua kama kutukandamiza ata tukandamiza wote na kama kutubeba tutabebwa wote.lakini uhuru tuliokuwa nao sasa kuna wachache sana ndio wanafaidika nao.na sioni tatizo la mkoloni kwani wengi ndio leo tunakimbilia huko huko kuwaomba kazi tunakimbia nchi zetu zenye uhuru.au ndio mambo ya modern slaves?
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2009
  20. Raia Fulani

    Raia Fulani JF-Expert Member

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    Najua wajua kwamba najua tunajua kipi bora
     
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