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Kikwete aombe msamaha au atolee maelezo maneno haya

Discussion in 'Habari na Hoja mchanganyiko' started by Mwafrika wa Kike, Mar 31, 2008.

  1. M

    Mwafrika wa Kike JF-Expert Member

    #1
    Mar 31, 2008
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    Katika habari ile ya daily news yenye kuelezea michango aliyotoa Kikwete na wenzake kusaidia ccm Mara, kuna quote kuwa Raisi wa Jamhuri ya muungano wa Tanzania amesema yafuatayo:

    Kwanza, Kikwete anatumia reference gani kusema kuwa ccm ndiyo chama pekee kilichotibitisha kuwa kinaweza kuchangia amani? Hii ina maana kuwa kuna vingine vilivyopewa madaraka na vikashindwa kutunza amani?

    Pili, Kikwete anatumia kumbukumbu (reference) gani ya neno amani wakati historia inaonyesha mauaji ya kikatili yaliyofanywa dhidi ya watanzania wa Pemba na Mwembechai?

    Tatu, Kikwete anatumia tafsiri gani ya neno amani iwapo mamilioni ya watanzania hawana uhakika wa kupata hata mulo mmoja wa siku, maji safi, umeme, mawasiliano, na mengine mengi? ni amani ipi hii anayosema?

    Zaidi pia, ina maana Kikwete anasema kuwa usipochangia ccm basi unachangia kinyume cha amani? Hii statement ina tofauti gani na ile iliyotolewa na jeshi la zimbabwe kuwa kuchagua upinzani ni kuvuruga au kutishia usalama wa taifa?

    Hii ni habari nzito sana na inabidi Kikwete au wasaidizi wake waitolee ufafanuzi na ikiwezekana kuwaomba msamaha watanzania wa Pemba na mwembechai waliopoteza maisha ya ndugu zao wakati wa ukosefu wa amani uliofanyika chini ya serikali ya ccm!

    Inabidi pia Kikwete awaombe msamaha wananchi wa Kigoma ambao wamekosa amani kwa miaka yote hii kwa kutokuwa na mawasiliano ya uhakika na wenzao katika sehemu zingine za Tanzania!

    Ni jumapili kwa hiyo niko limited kidogo (nachukua off kufurahia maisha mafupi niliyonayo) so mengine zaidi ya uvunjifu wa amani yaliyofanywa kuanzia miaka ya Nyerere, Mwinyi, hadi leo yatakuja na kuendelea hapa rasmi kesho!
     
  2. Mzee Mwanakijiji

    Mzee Mwanakijiji Platinum Member

    #2
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    bi mdogo nilikuwa natafuta niandike nini wiki hii, lakini naona umenipa mawazo... haikamae..
     
  3. M

    Masaka JF-Expert Member

    #3
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    Kwani alichosema Kikwete ni uongo?

    Hakuna wakati wapemba wataruhusiwa kutawala zanzibar au bara au muungano. Wao ni wapemba na sio watanzania kama unabisha muulize Salim Ahmed Salim. Kwa hiyo mauaji ya pemba ambayo sidhani kama yalitokea huwezi kumtishwa Mheshimiwa raisi Kikwete.

    Ni kweli pia kuwa ccm ndiyo chama kilichotunza amani ya watanzania kuanzia uhuru. Hivi vyama vyenu vya kiislam kama ilivyo CUF, au vya kisukuma (UDP), vya wachaga (chadema) havina nafasi kabisa ya kutunza amani ya nchi.

    Anza kukubali matokeo binti, CCM itatawala milele zote mpaka wajukuu zako labda ndio wataleta upinzani wa kweli. Nyie wengine hapa ni wivu tu ndio unawasumbua kwa vile hamko serikalini na maisha ya ulaya ya kufanya kazi mbovu mbovu yamewajengea chuki ya bure juu ya serikali ya ccm.

    Kidumu chama cha mapinduzi.
     
  4. M

    Masaka JF-Expert Member

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    Yaleyale ya siku zote, kuanzisha gharika kwenye kikombe cha chai kama kawaida yako. Aliyosema Kikwete ni ya kweli na msitake sasa kuanza kuvuruga amani hapa kama kawaida yenu.
     
  5. Pundit

    Pundit JF-Expert Member

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    Ingawa kisayansi hawezi kuthibitisha alichosema, kama kawaida yake Kikwete ametoa kauli ambayo iko vague na inaweza kutafsiriwa kwa jinsi yoyote.

    Nilipata kuongea na balozi wetu umoja wa mataifa mara tu baada ya kuteuliwa, nikamuuliza kuhusu swala zima la war on terror na mambo ya terrorism.Balozi aliniambia mambo ya usalama ni mapana zaidi kuliko war on terror, na kama kuna watu milioni kadhaa wanakufa kwa malaria ugonjwa unaokingika basi hilo nalo ni suala nyeti la security.Kwa hiyo msimamo wa Tanzania kuhusu security ulikuwa kwamba UN iende deeper zaidiya concept ya security in the sense ya vita na terrorism.

    Ukiangalia security katika concept hii Tanzania hamna security.Kuanzia security ya kunywa maji safi mpaka security ya huduma za afya mpaka security ya kupata elimu.

    Sasa mbona tuna pick and choose definition ya security? Tukiwa kwenye UN huko tunaitumia kama leverage tupate misaada ya malaria, tunasema wakiongelea security na sie hatuko secure tunataka misaada, ikiwa Kikwete anataka kujisifia na CCM yake anasema tuko secure,, which is which now?
     
  6. Richard

    Richard JF-Expert Member

    #6
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    Mkuu,

    Hii kauli nihisi haijatulia. Huwezi uka-"endorse" kwamba CCM ni ya milele, hapa naona unatoka nje ya mstari.

    Halafu hapa hakuna watu unaowafikiria kwamba wana wivu na kwamba eti kwa kuwa hawamo serikalini basi wako hivo.

    Pia huna uhakika kwamba wote wanaoandika humu wanaishi Ulaya na kufanza kazi mbovu na wanaandika humu kwa sababu wanachukia serikali, sasa kwanini ukejeli watu?

    Wewe una tatizo lile la kuona kila anaechungulia jikoni basi afukuzwe hata kama ameishia sebuleni tu.

    Njoo kwa hoja na tujadiliane hapa JF.

    Zidumu fikra mbalimbali za wana JF.
     
  7. M

    Mgaya JF-Expert Member

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    Haya mambo ya kusema kuwa CUF ni chama cha kiislam sijui wewe unayatoa wapi. Kama ni hivyo basi inabidi CUF watawale zanzibar maana kuna waislam zaidi ya asilimia 95.

    Hizi lebo kwa vyama vya upinzani kuwa ni vya kidini na kikabila hayawasaidii chochote nyie wanaccm zaidi ya kutaka kuigawa nchi kwa misingi ya kikabila na kidini. Ni katiba ya nchi gani hiyo inayosema kuwa wapemba hawaruhusiwi kutawala Tanzania?
     
  8. M

    Mgaya JF-Expert Member

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    Tatizo ni kuwa Kikwete na wenzake huko ccm wakiona watanzania wanatolewa kwenye maeneo yao ya kuchimba madini ili wazungu na wageni wengine wachimbe bure na watanzania hao wanatoka kimya kimya basi wanaiita hiyo ni amani. Yaani watanzania hawana uwezo wa kupinga unyonyaji kwa namna yoyote ile kwa hiyo nchi inaitwa kuwa ina amani na utulivu.
     
  9. BAK

    BAK JF-Expert Member

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    Ama kweli ukistaajabu ya hayawani utaona ya taahira, nani aliye nje ya Tanzania alikwambia anataka kuingia kwenye SIRI KALI? :confused:

    Hao vingunge wakiwa majuu kila siku wanataka kukutana na Watanzania wanaoishi huko na kuwaambia warudi kuwekeza nyumbani na SIRI KALI itajitahidi kuboresha hali ya maisha ili kuwavutia wengi wao warudi Tanzania.

    Sasa wakihoji mambo mbali mbali ikiwamo la ufisadi mnadhani wana wivu kwa kufanya kazi mbovu mbovu! :confused:

    Fungua macho mwanangu Watanzania walio wengi wana kazi nzuri sana katika nchi za magharibi na mishahara na marupurupu manono wengi hawana fikra ya kurudi Tanzania kesho wala kesho kutwa, lakini wana haki ya kujadili mambo mbali mbali yanayoendelea Tanzania siyo kwa sababu wana wivu, bali kwa sababu wanaona ufisadi unazidi kushamiri kila kukicha wa kusaini mikataba hewa tunayolipa mabilioni ya pesa bila kazi yoyote kufanyika, ya kununua rada tusiyoihitaji kwa bei mbaya kumbe nyingine zimeingia mifukoni kwa wajanja wachache, kujichukulia migodi ya madini katika mazingira ya kutatanisha kama walivyofanya Mkapa na Yona.

    Unaonekana una mawazo finyu sana katika kuchanganua mambo ndio maana cha kwanza ulichokiona ni wivu badala ya kufikiri kwamba Watanzania walio nje wana haki sawa sawa na Watanzania walio ndani katika kujadili mambo mbali mbali ndani ya Tanzania na wanayajadili ili kuleta mabadiliko ya kweli kwa manufaa ya Tanzania na Watanzania. Ama kweli kigumu chama cha mapinduzi ala mafisadi
     
  10. K

    Kithuku JF-Expert Member

    #10
    Mar 31, 2008
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    Mwafrika wa Kike,

    Binafsi sioni ubaya wowote katika kauli ya JK uliyoinukuu. Hajasema kuwa CCM ni chama 'pekee' kinachochangia amani, hilo neno umemwekea. Lakini hata angesema CCM ni chama pekee kilichodumisha amani, bado angekuwa sahihi, kwani hata mwenyewe umeuliza kama kuna vyama vingine vilivyopata nafasi hiyo vikashindwa. Vyama vingine havijapata nafasi ya kutawala, kwa hiyo hatuwezi kuvitathmini kwa kigezo cha uzoefu wa kutawala au wa kuleta amani. Kwa hiyo maneno hayo ya kuwa kuchangia CCM ni kuchangia amani ya nchi, mtu anaweza kuyatumia popote ambapo neno amani linaingia, kwa mifano:
    Kama watu wanajenga madrasa kufundisha watoto maadili mema ya kidini, na inafahamika kuwa raia wakiwa na maadili mema nchi itakuwa na amani, unaweza kusema kuchangia ujenzi wa madrasa hiyo ni kuchangia amani ya nchi. Lakini bado haina maana kuwa madrasa ndio taasisi pekee inayochangia amani.
    Kama wananchi wameanzisha mradi utakaoajiri vijana wasio na kazi mtaani, na inaeleweka kuwa vijana wakipata shughuli za kufanya zenye kipato uhalifu utapungua na hivyo amani itaongezeka, unaweza kusema kuchangia mradi huo ni kuchangia amani ya nchi.
    Hata kama kingekuwa ni chama cha upinzani kinafanya harambee ya mchango wa kukiimarisha, kingeweza kusema kinatoa sera mbadala na uongozi mbadala kwa njia ya amani, kwa hiyo kukichangia ni kukiongezea uwezo wa kushiriki katika demokrasia ambako hudumisha amani, kwa hiyo kuchangia TLP, CUF, CHADEMA etc pia ni kuchangia amani ya nchi (nadhani hakuna aliyesema kinyume na hapo kwenye mkutano huo).

    Nadhani ni vizuri kuwa critical, lakini nadhani pia si busara kupinga kwa utaratibu wa "kumtega" msemaji, yaani akisema tu kinatungiwa tafsiri halafu anapingwa! A ah, tusiende hivyo. Yapo ya msingi tunayoyapinga katika utawala, tuendelee kuyapinga hayo, vinginevyo tukijaza mengi mno hadi haya yasiyo na uzito tutaonekana ndio kawaida yetu kupinga tuuuuuu! Hapana jamani, tuwe na mwelekeo, tuwekeze nguvu zetu kwenye mwelekeo wenye tija.
     
  11. m

    mapambano JF-Expert Member

    #11
    Mar 31, 2008
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    I don't see a problem with the president statement. Bring a post that we can all benefit from it, rather than wasting our time. Some of you are loosing credibility,kama hakuna cha msingi bora kaa kimpya, maana itafika wakati tutaacha kufanya kazi na kutafuta kasoro zisizokua na msingi..
     
  12. M

    Mwafrika wa Kike JF-Expert Member

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    Mwalimu Kithuku,

    Heshima mbele mkuu, najaribu kujieleza vizuri hapa ili nisipate grade mbaya kwenye hii essay yangu!

    Ingemgharim nini kama angesema kuwa vyama vyote vya siasa na watanzania wote kwa ujumla wametunza "amani" na sio kusema kuwa ni ccm peke yao? ni chama gani ambacho kimeshindwa kutunza hiyo "amani" ambayo yeye anayoiona? au ni chama gani kinatishia hiyo "amani" ambayo yeye anaiona?

    Kama neno amani ni relative kiasi hiki, ni vyema Kikwete akaja akatoa maelezo ya kuwa alimaanisha nini hapa. Kama ukisoma heading yangu kwenye hii thread nimesema kuwa aombe msamaha au atolee maelezo alichosema. Wewe kutokana na elimu yako waweza kutenganisha yote haya, vipi kuhusu mzee Majogoro wa kamnyongeni kule musoma anaweza haya?

    Nadhani mwalimu unajaribu kusahau kuwa ccm wamekuwa na tabia ya kutumia the "A" word kutishia wapiga kura wa vijijini. Walitumia mwaka 1995 wakikumbushia vita ya rwanda na burundi, wametumia hata juzi kwenye uchaguzi wa kiteto wakitishia wananchi kuwa wapinzani wataleta fujo za kenya (nadhani umesahau mamluki wa ccm hapa kina chinga, mtalii, na mahesabu walifikia hatua ya kuita chadema kuwa ni chama cha wakikuyu?)

    Hakuna anayejaribu kumtega Kikwete hapa.

    Haya maneno ameyasema mwenyewe. Mimi nimemuuliza maswali machache tu:

    1. Akisema amani anatumia tafsiri ipi?
    2. Je anaweza kusema kuwa watu wa pemba na mwembechai wana amani?
    3. Je anaweza kusema kuwa watu wa Kigoma wana amani?
    4. Je wanaokufa kila siku kwa magonjwa yanayotibika wana amani?
    5. Je wakazi wa Buzwagi na Bulyanhulu wana amani?
    6. Hao wakazi wa musoma walioachiwa mabonde ya ufa wana amani?
    7. Je wale nyoka wa mererani wanaouwawa na makaburu wana amani?

    Ni amani ipi hii Kikwete anayoiongelea? Inabidi atolee maelezo au aombe msamaha na kukiri kuwa ccm imevunja amani ya watanzania kwa muda mrefu sana!
     
  13. M

    Mwafrika wa Kike JF-Expert Member

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    Huo ni mtizamo wako na mimi nina wangu na wote twaijenga JF kwa mitizamo tofauti. Kama wewe huoni Kikwete akijisifia kuwa yeye na ccm wametunza amani wakati akijua kabisa kuwa si muda mrefu uliopita jeshi na polisi walitumiwa kuwauwa kikatili raia wa kitanzania (wasiojulikana idadi) kule Pemba ni makosa au kuna utata kwenye hiyo statement?, basi inawezekana kweli Pope sio mkatoliki!
     
  14. T

    TechMaro Senior Member

    #14
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    Naombeni mnieleweshe....
    Hakuna tofauti kati ya security(ulinzi) na peace (amani). Mi naona kama vina uhusiano wa kuku na yai, ila kama tunachambua Muungwana kuzungumzia amani, kuanza kuongelea security si tunaenda mbali kidogo?? Kuna uwezekano kusiwe na security bali kukawa na amani, ila security hudhibitisha amani itakuwepo. Pia tunaweza kuwepo security ila amani isiwepo.....

    Mi nawasilisha tu wakuu....
     
  15. M

    Mwafrika wa Kike JF-Expert Member

    #15
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    Either way, bado kuna tafsiri nyingi sana za maneno amani na security. Wakati wewe unaweza kuongelea security ukimaanisha kuwa hakuna vibaka wa kukwapua simu yako, mwingine security yake anamaanisha hakuna wanyama mwitu wa kula mazao yake shambani.

    Amani pia inaweza kuwa inaongelea ukosefu wa maandamano ya wanafunzi wa chuo kikuu wakati kwa wengine amani inamaanisha uhakika wa kupata mulo angalau mmoja kwa siku.

    Katika yote haya bado Kikwete hajawa wazi kuwa anaongelea amani ya namna gani maana amani zote hizi (kwa tafsiri yoyote ile) bado imeshindwa kupatikana chini ya serikali ya ccm!
     
  16. T

    TechMaro Senior Member

    #16
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    Good point.....

    Watu kukaa kimya isichukuliwe kwamba its all ok....wangeanza kushughulikia manung'uniko ya wananchi kwa umakini zaidi, amani itakuwepo Tanzania, na sio kwa kuhimiza wafanyabiashara wachangie ili kuleta amani
     
  17. K

    Kimbembe Senior Member

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    Mie nimeschoka hata nakosa la kusema juu ya mjdala huu.Matamshi ya Kikwete yanathibitisha alivyo na low thinking.Ana echo shoutings za vijiweni nakuwalazimisha watu wote wenye akili zao kuanza ubishi usio kuwa na maana hata kidogo .Siasa na Chama kuwa madarakani ni jambo serious lakini yeye analeta kejeli .This is the man watu wanadhani ana akili na uwezo wa kuingoza Tanzania .
     
  18. Pundit

    Pundit JF-Expert Member

    #18
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    Contradiction

    Sasa kama unaanza kwa ku acknowledge kwamba hakuna tofauti kati ya peace na security kwa nini hutaki tuongelee security wakati tunaongelea hii issue? I find a problem with your narrow understanding of security as ulinzi (are you thinking of security forces? )

    Maybe you should re-orient yourself with the dictionary definition of security.Fist meaning of security is the environment of being secure, safe in other words amani na utulivu

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/security

    1. freedom from danger, risk, etc.; safety.
    2. freedom from care, anxiety, or doubt; well-founded confidence.
    3. something that secures or makes safe; protection; defense.
    4. freedom from financial cares or from want: The insurance policy gave the family security.
    5. precautions taken to guard against crime, attack, sabotage, espionage, etc.: The senator claimed security was lax and potential enemies know our plans.
    6. a department or organization responsible for protection or safety: He called security when he spotted the intruder.
    7. protection or precautions taken against escape; custody: The dangerous criminal was placed under maximum security.
    8. an assurance; guarantee.
    9. Law. a. something given or deposited as surety for the fulfillment of a promise or an obligation, the payment of a debt, etc.
    b. one who becomes surety for another.

    10. an evidence of debt or of property, as a bond or a certificate of stock.
    11. Usually, securities. stocks and bonds.
    12. Archaic. overconfidence; cockiness.
    –adjective 13. of, pertaining to, or serving as security: The company has instituted stricter security measures.
     
  19. m

    mapambano JF-Expert Member

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    Ni kweli kabisa huu ndio mtazamo wangu, ´Ni nani katika siasa asiyejisifia!?Tatizo ni kwasababu hakukuhusisha wewe? Hili ni taifa changa na matatizo kama yaliyotokea Pemba yapo na tunayapiga vita. Lakini in general Tanzania tunaweza kujivunia amani tukilinganisha na nchi nyingine barani Afrika. Ni sifa hii inayotupatia fedha za kigeni kutokana na watalii kuja kwenye mbuga zetu za taifa, ni sifa hii inayowavutia wawekezaji kuja kuwekeza TZ. Amani hii imeanza kujengwa kabla ya vyama vingi na mpaka sasa, ndio maana kuna mambo mengi yakujivunia kama mtanzania, kwa mfano mambo ya ukabila, dini nk.
     
  20. D

    DIKTETA Member

    #20
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    KAMA TAFASIRI YA AMANI NA KUKOSEKANA KA AMANI NI HIZO ZA KWENU HAPA JUU BASI HAKUNA NCHI YENYE AMANI DUNAIANI HATA MOJA.KWA KUWA KILA NCHI IMEPATA KUUWA WAHALIFU KAMA WALE WAMWEMBECHAI NA PEMBA.KWASASA NI HISTORIA LAKINI NI HISTORIA YA KUJIVUNIA WALAU SERILALI ILIONYESHA INA MENO.AMANI HAIWEZI KUJA BILA NCHA YA UPANGA.
     
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