Dismiss Notice
You are browsing this site as a guest. It takes 2 minutes to CREATE AN ACCOUNT and less than 1 minute to LOGIN

Kenya Seeks Diplomatic End To Ivory Sale Row With Tanzania

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Siasa' started by Synthesizer, Apr 8, 2010.

  1. Synthesizer

    Synthesizer JF-Expert Member

    #1
    Apr 8, 2010
    Joined: Feb 15, 2010
    Messages: 3,176
    Likes Received: 1,046
    Trophy Points: 280
    By The guardian reporter
    8th April 2010


    The ivory jigsaw between Kenya and Tanzania is not over, although there are now reports of silent maneuvers to end the row through diplomacy....


    Kenya fought tooth and nail to be sure that Tanzania’s proposal did not go through. Botswana minister for Wildlife and Tourism, Onkokame Kitso Mokaila, was quoted as saying the position taken by Kenya and her allies was against the spirit of international co-operation.


    This incident reminded me of what a friend from Uganda asked me some few years back, that why are we Tanzanians so eager to go into regional integration with Kenya, do we have such a short memory or are we just too trusting?

    He went on to explain that technically it was Kenya (and not Id Amin of Uganda) that killed the first East African integration, and reminded me how, just before the break of the former East African Community, they would hoarded buses, train wagons and locomotives of the then East African Railways and send back to Uganda and Tanzania old ones.

    He also told me they also hoarded East African Airways aeroplanes when flew to Nairobi, and how a Tanzanian pilot, Captain Mapunda, managed to sneak one plane back to Dar es Salaam from Nairobi, and was regarded as a national hero when he landed the plane in Dar es Salaam. This was followed by a period of angry verbal attacks between the two countries, with words like "manyang'au" featuring frequently in "Mazungumzo baada ya Habari", Radio Tanzania. He said it was because of what Kenya did in the lead up to the break of the former East African Community that before embarking on the new EAC Kenya was told to compensate Tanzania and Uganda because of what they did back in 1978.


    Then there was this amazingly crazy stunt that the Kenyans pulled. After one of the great wilderbeast (and other animals) Manyara river crossing into Kenya, they decided to build a fence on the border so that the animals would not cross back to Tanzania!

    Of course when the time for the animals to cross back to Tanzania came, the fence was pushed down by the overwhelming number of animals, but lots of the animals got maimed and killed. It was such a disaster instigated by a very high degree of stupid selfishness.


    And of course, while Tanzania was very much involved in assisting in the liberation struggle of Southern African countries, Kenya was busy doing business with the South Africa apartheid government. Apartheid South Africa was getting vegetables from Kenya, in spite of a worldwide agreement to boycott trade with the inhuman apartheid regime. Because of this, when travelling back to South Africa from an OAU meeting, President Mbeki snubbed President Moi when the latter went to see him at Jomo Kenyatta airport. His assistants told Moi that president Mbeki was sleeping and thus he could not meet Moi.The papers in Kenya were full of the story.


    And now, in the middle of fast tracking a new East African Community, for which Kenya is advocating so loudly to include land issues, Kenya went behind our backs and stabbed us big time.

    Their partner in this venture was Rwanda, the very people in power that a few years ago made break a world record of having the biggest number of refugees. Ironically, when we had them as refugees, it was at a great cost to our biodiversity, and now they are accusing us of not taking good care of our biodiversity.


    So, could it be true that we Tanzanians have short memories and are too trusting?
     
  2. TIMING

    TIMING JF-Expert Member

    #2
    Apr 8, 2010
    Joined: Apr 12, 2008
    Messages: 21,797
    Likes Received: 53
    Trophy Points: 145
    it is the happiest post today... hakuna kitu tamu kama mama anatingisha kiberiti wakati hana nauli ya kuondokea

    gone are the days when english was judged as a measure of intelligence
     
  3. M

    Mugo"The Great" JF-Expert Member

    #3
    Apr 9, 2010
    Joined: Oct 7, 2007
    Messages: 265
    Likes Received: 6
    Trophy Points: 35
    Hii EAC ni changamoto kubwa sana kwa wananchi wa Tanzania na siyo viongozi wetu. Nasema viongozi wetu kwa sababu ni kama vipofu na viziwi ambao kwao historia haina maana. Sasa hivi ushiriki wa Kenya katika East Africa ni "Chetu(Tanzania) chao(Kenya) na chao(Kenya) ni chao, period" Nadhani either Viongozi wetu wanasukumwa na mataifa makubwa kuungana ili mataifa hayo yanufaike na Bloc Cooperation Agreements ambazo Wadanganyika hawataweza kuziona kuwa zinaiathiri Tanzania directly au wamemeza ndoani na sasa imewakwama kooni au ni kusaka umaarufu bila kujali madhara yatayowapata watanzania.

    J.K. ajue kuwa Tanzania ni ya watanzania na Serikali ya CCM isipokuwa makini historia itakuja kuwahukumu.
     
  4. Ben Saanane

    Ben Saanane Verified User

    #4
    Apr 9, 2010
    Joined: Jan 18, 2007
    Messages: 14,605
    Likes Received: 3,507
    Trophy Points: 280
    Tanzania inabidi tuwe tough katika hii hatua.Hakuan haja ya kukaa nao meza moja saa hizi huku wao washatuumiza.Pia kwa sasa Tanzania inabidia kuichukulia Kenya hatua kali katika jambo lolote katika medani za kimataifa iwe katika hoja zenye maslahi kwa kenya kama UN,WTO nk. Pia nilipenda kwa mara ya kwanza msimamo alioonyesha shamsi Mwangunga coz alimpa live Dr.Wekesa wa Kenya kuwa wasitegemee TZ kuwaunga mkono katika jambo lolote huko Doha.

    Pia Tz nasisi sijui kwa nini Delegates wetu walishindwa kuweka hoja nzito.Nakumbuaka hata kuhusu kuhifadhi nyaraka za Rwandan Genocide Kenya pia wametaka despite kuwa tanzania ndiyo waliotoa mchango mkubwa kwa operation ya kesi za Genocide ya rwanda.Nilifurahi jinsi ambassador wetu huko UN Dr.Mahiga alivyowagaragaza kwa hoja.These people are seriously selfish

    Diplomacy isitumike vibaya,hata kama TZ itachukua hatua kali bado ni measures za kidiplomasia.We wont be fooled around tena
     
  5. N

    Nanu JF-Expert Member

    #5
    Apr 9, 2010
    Joined: May 29, 2009
    Messages: 1,224
    Likes Received: 2
    Trophy Points: 135
    I think, we are liberal and w love people, we have passionate for love but our brethrens are still "nyang'aus", the old saying that "pundamilia haachi kuchora mistari" it is still very valid.
    Things has to be very clear and documented. They are selfish and selfishness will always be their culture, behavior and worse "attitude" is such bad!!
    They are our neigbours but not only that we are forging EAC and yet they draws knives against our backs. We need to think thoroughly about our cooperation with them including Kagame and his regime!!!!
     
  6. M

    MkamaP JF-Expert Member

    #6
    Apr 9, 2010
    Joined: Jan 27, 2007
    Messages: 6,471
    Likes Received: 469
    Trophy Points: 180
    Hata mie nashangaa kinachowasukuma viongozi hata kujadili hiyo EAC. Ningekuwa mie ndo kiongozi wala nisingepoteza mda hata kuruhusu raia wangu kujiita mbunge wa EAC. Kwa namna yoyote ile hatuwezi faidika na shirikisho hilo, hasara ndo kubwa.

    Viongozi wajadili namna ya kujikwamuwa sisi kama sisi, tangu lini mwafrika jirani akamsaidia jirani? Ukiangalia mfano european union hawa watu wana sprit tofauti na sisi. sasa unaunganisha na kenya ama uganda ili iweje?? binafsi naona ni uhuni fulani.
     
  7. Kinyambiss

    Kinyambiss JF-Expert Member

    #7
    Apr 9, 2010
    Joined: Dec 2, 2007
    Messages: 1,373
    Likes Received: 2
    Trophy Points: 135
    Hawa watu ni manya'gau tuu... ni kitu dhahiri.. Wanachuki na ukatili baina yao wenyewe and until they resolve that.. we should keep a healthy distance from these people..
     
  8. Ben Saanane

    Ben Saanane Verified User

    #8
    Apr 9, 2010
    Joined: Jan 18, 2007
    Messages: 14,605
    Likes Received: 3,507
    Trophy Points: 280
    Source http://www.marsgroupkenya.org/multimedia/?StoryID=287254&page=3

    Tanzanians Promise Kenya Ivory revenge


    TANZANIA is unhappy with 'Kenya, for "bad' neighbourliness" when it sought help to sell its ivory stockpile last month.


    The, country's Natural Resources minister Shamsa Mwangunga at the weekend warned Kenya, which led opposition to Tanzania's bid to sell off its ivory, not to expect their support in issues related to the UN Convention, on International Trade' in Endangered Species (CITES). Mwangunga said, she 'had met Wildlife minister Noah Wekesa in Qatar after the CITES meeting and he had apologised to her over what happened at the Doha meeting.

    Wekesa promised that Kenya will resolve the matter when they go back home. "I told the minister that they should' expect Tanzania to behave in a similar manner in CITES issues being pursued in Kenya's interest," she said. Tanzania has', accepted Kenya's offer to help chart the way forward but reluctantly. Director of wildlife Erasmus Tarimo on Thursday said Kenya's offer is being taken in the spirit of good' neighbourliness.

    Kenya, through High Commissioner Mutinda Mutiso, promised that Tanzania it will create a platform where the two will discuss and come up with a common solution. However, Tarimo said Kenya's proposal does not make sense because it is coming after the neighbouring country campaigned vigorously to ensure that Tanzania's bid to sell off its ivory stockpile is rejected.

    He wondered whether the gesture was a mockery or was, prompted by a guilty conscience, coming at a time when the damage had already been done. "Does it make sense that when you have already beaten your neighbour, you turn around saying you want to assist? The damage has been done, but we will sit and' listen to them," said Tarimo. Mutiso made the promise in Arusha when speaking at the interactive forum with investors.

    He said the issue needed to be settled at a roundtable discussion in line with the East African community sprit. The forum brought together Kenyan and Tanzanian investors from various socioeconomic sectors. Tanzania has a st6ckpi]e of 100 tons of ivory worth about $26m (Sh2bn).

    The wildlife department director maintained that Tanzania never pointed a finger at Kenya during the Doha talks, but it was Kenya which targeted Tanzania with negative attacks.

    The Kenyan High Commissioner maintained that the differences between the two neighbouring countries on the matter were unfortunate. "We have been blamed a lot on this, but I think we need to solve the issue through a joint commission," Mutiso said
     
  9. Ben Saanane

    Ben Saanane Verified User

    #9
    Apr 9, 2010
    Joined: Jan 18, 2007
    Messages: 14,605
    Likes Received: 3,507
    Trophy Points: 280
    Najua ukifuatilia chuki yao ni kuhusu suala la ardhi tu.Coz kenyans and Rwandeese are facing the same problems.

    Na hivi karibuni Kenyans wamepata competition noma sana ktk idara ya utalii kutoka Tanzania.Kwa kweli pamoja na mapungufu ya serikali yetu,kitendo walichofanya Kenya si cha kuvumilika hata kidogo.Kwa kuwa viongozi wetu wengine hawana uzalendo tu otherwise tungekua tumeshachukua hatua kali za kidiplomasia dhidi yao

    Sasa Ambassador Mutiso sijui anajaribu kusema nini au Noah wekesa anapotoa apology anakuwa ametuona vipi kwanzakwa sababu hilo jambo halikutokea kwa bahati mbaya bali lilikua limepangwa.Hata Balozi Mutiso ashasema alilalamika sana,so foreign affairs ya Kenya walijua kabisa madhara ya hii hatua yao

    Mutiso aache kutuzuga,kwanza hata sijui kwanini wale watanzania walioandamana dhidi ya Mpendazoe kuhamia CCJ kama kweli wana uchungu na nchi yetu,wasielekeze nguvu zao kuandamana na kulaani hii move ya kenya kwenye ubalozi wao hapo nyumbani

    Mutiso anachanganya diplomasia na tradition yake ya kikamba tu hapo
     
  10. M

    Mugo"The Great" JF-Expert Member

    #10
    Apr 9, 2010
    Joined: Oct 7, 2007
    Messages: 265
    Likes Received: 6
    Trophy Points: 35
    Noah Wekeza alienda mpaka Belgium ku-lobby ili EU ipige kura against Sell of Ivory sasa wanataka kuwadanganya Watanzania kwa porojo na maneno matamu matamu. Ni vizuri tusahau kuhusu hii EAC kwa sababu kila nchi inataka ku-maximize faida jambo ambalo ni gumu. I don't think kuna spirit of ujirani katika offer yao (Kenya) bali ni kutaka kujua Strategy za Tanzania ili watu-hit where it pains most.
     
  11. M

    MkamaP JF-Expert Member

    #11
    Apr 9, 2010
    Joined: Jan 27, 2007
    Messages: 6,471
    Likes Received: 469
    Trophy Points: 180
    Pamoja na arguments zote walizotea lakini lengo lao kubwa ni kukomoa. ndio maana hata ktk media zao wanasema big victory kwa kenya. Tanzania inge quit kwanza hiyo EAC kama wanalazimishwa na nchi za magharibi kuingia ktk shirikisho wanaweza jiunga na SADC huko kusini.Bora kuungana na congo kuliko kenya
     
  12. Bon

    Bon Senior Member

    #12
    Apr 9, 2010
    Joined: Feb 22, 2010
    Messages: 101
    Likes Received: 0
    Trophy Points: 33
    Hawa watu si wa kuvumilia kabisa, viongozi wetu watakuwa wametusaliti kama wakilinyamazia hili swala. na kama tushawajua wenzetu wako hivi kwanini kujitia kitanzi na mikataba itakayo umiza sisi, watoto na wajukuu zetu? hapo hawa viongozi watakuwa ni wazee au wengi wao washatangulia.
    Nisisi tunoweza kulikomboa taifa letu, lazima tuhakikishe viongozi wetu wanalichukulia kwa umakini mkubwa hili swala.
     
  13. M

    MkamaP JF-Expert Member

    #13
    Apr 9, 2010
    Joined: Jan 27, 2007
    Messages: 6,471
    Likes Received: 469
    Trophy Points: 180
    jamani default setting inaumiza macho.

    Ningeomba wana forum ukimiliza kuandika bonyeza CTRL+A kwa pamoja harafu chagua sizes ili kuongeza ukubwa wa maneno , na ukimaliza click A kwenye toolbar harafu chagua rangi.
     
  14. M

    Mugo"The Great" JF-Expert Member

    #14
    Apr 9, 2010
    Joined: Oct 7, 2007
    Messages: 265
    Likes Received: 6
    Trophy Points: 35
    Tanzania's Threat Over Ivory Ill Advised

    Date: Mon 05th April 2010

    Mediahouse: The Star


    Tanzania is furious with Kenya because of the position we took on trade in ivory at the recent wildlife meeting in Doha, Qatar. Kenya led opposition to Tanzania's bid to be allowed to sell its stockpile of ivory, and is now being accused of bad neighbourliness.

    Tanzania's Minister for Natural Resources and Tourism Shamsa Mwangunga has warned Kenya, which stopped the country's bid to sell off its ivory, not to expect Tanzania's support on issues related to the UN Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species, Cites.

    Kenya needs not be apologetic about its stand. As much as neighbouring countries are expected to maintain cordial relations, common practice in international relations is that a country identifies its national interest and pursues it selfishly.

    This pursuit of national interest often leads to disagreements with neighbours.

    There are incidents when Tanzania has been uncooperative and remained aloof on matters of the East African Community it felt might not serve its interests.
    Their refusal to allow free access to land, movement of residents and the use of IDs as travel documents are examples.

    Thus our neighbours to the South should avoid making veiled threats because of the position Kenya took on ivory trade. After all we have more issues we agree on than those on which we disagree.


    Kumbe wanataka roundtable ili waendelee ku-pursue issue za free access to land na movement of residents.
     
  15. Ben Saanane

    Ben Saanane Verified User

    #15
    Apr 9, 2010
    Joined: Jan 18, 2007
    Messages: 14,605
    Likes Received: 3,507
    Trophy Points: 280
    Viongozi wetu sijui ni nani anawalazimisha kuingia huko

    Kuwa katika shirikisho jambo zuri sana,lakini linakua jambo zuri kama tumeweka all other factors constant au kama tumefumbia matatizo yajayo.

    Mimi nasema kama serikali yetu itatulazimisha kuungana na nchi ambazo zitaumiza watanzania zaidi basi mimi nitakua radhi kuipigania kwa nguvu zote,hatutaki kuburuzwa hata siku moja

    Wasije wakatufanya tuanze kuwa na mawazo ya msituni,najua kuna watu watakuja hapa kunisulubisha lakini nasizitiza "kwa ajili ya maslahi ya Tanzania,nipo radhi kuingia msituni"

    Tungeungana katika good spirit kungekua na faida kubwa

    tuingekua na soko kubwa

    Tungerahisisha au tungeweza kuwa na block kubwa yenye sauti katika nyanja za kimataifa

    Ingesaidia kwa wananchi wetu kutumia fursa zilizopo ku-speed up maendeleo na kukuza pato la jumuiya na nchi wanachama nk

    But katika wingu zito la chuki,ubinafsi,uroho wa raslimali nk,hakuna shirikisho lenye tija.Na sisis watanzania tuzidi kujituma ktk kazi,biashara na pia tuwe tayari zaidi kuhakiksha serikali yetu inawajibika kwetu sisi wananchi. Bado narudia 'serikali yetu isipokua makini,inapanda mbegu mbaya ambayo wao ndiyo watakaolaumiwa hapo baadae'
     
  16. Rufiji

    Rufiji JF-Expert Member

    #16
    Apr 9, 2010
    Joined: Jun 18, 2006
    Messages: 1,592
    Likes Received: 6
    Trophy Points: 135
    Chickens are now coming home to roost ! This gimmick known as EAC will destroy our country.
     
  17. M

    Mugo"The Great" JF-Expert Member

    #17
    Apr 9, 2010
    Joined: Oct 7, 2007
    Messages: 265
    Likes Received: 6
    Trophy Points: 35
    Wakenya wanatulaghai watanzania eti walichoma pembe zao mwaka 1989. Lakini issue kubwa ni ardhi ya Tanzania.
     
  18. M

    MkamaP JF-Expert Member

    #18
    Apr 9, 2010
    Joined: Jan 27, 2007
    Messages: 6,471
    Likes Received: 469
    Trophy Points: 180
    Tatizo ni kwamba ni Tanzania pekee ndiyo huwa inaiingia ktk shirikisho ikiwa na imani ya soko pana na ushirikiano wa jirani mwema. Wakati nchi zingine zinaingia na dhamira zao tofauti kabisa.

    Baada ya kutuliza ule mwaka walipovunja EAC kwa kutengeshea ndege zote na meli zimetua kenya na kuziteka ni jambo kwa binadamu mwenye akili ya kawaida hawezi kulisahahu.

    Kama sikosei Tanzania hakupata ndege , mpaka mwalimu akalazimika kwenda kuazima ndege msumbiji, rais wa msumbiji alimpa ndege akimcheka mwalimu na african unity yake. Hata MV victoria wakenya waliifanya baa pale kisumo ,tulipowabembeleza sana ndo wakaturudishia wameikongorowa yote.Hiyo Kenya airway moja ya juhudi kwanini ipo mbele ni kwa sababu waliteka ndege zote za Tanzania na Uganda wakachukuwa.

    Sasa tumejitahidi kutoka huko walikotubwaga ,sasa wameshaona ni tishio na wanakuja na mbinu ile ile. Ili kuzorotesha uchumi wetu unaokuwa angalau japo kwa kuchechemea mno, tofauti na wao hawana njia mbadala wa kukuza uchumi wao zaidi ya kuvamia mali asili za jirani.

    Wito kwa viongozi kama shirikisho ni mhimu sana bora waangalie namna ya kuungana na jirani zetu wa kusini. Kwani jirani zetu ni wa kazikazini tu?

     
  19. Ben Saanane

    Ben Saanane Verified User

    #19
    Apr 9, 2010
    Joined: Jan 18, 2007
    Messages: 14,605
    Likes Received: 3,507
    Trophy Points: 280
    Viongozi wetu ni viziwi,kwanza nina mashaka na uzalendo wao.Kuna mtu ambae tulimbana sana na maswali kuhusu ishu nyingi za EAC yaani Pm wetu Hon.Mizengo pinda.huyu jama angalao ana chembe ya uzalendo na anajua njama zilizopo kuhusu hawa jirani zetu.Sasa sijui kwa nini hatumii nafasi yake kuishawishi serikali.Kuna hata mijitu mingine tumeipeleka huko na ubinafsi mwingi ati ni wabunge wa EAC kama Dr.Aman Walid kabourou...i've never seen mtu ambaye anawakilisha nchi lakini asiye na uzalendo kama huyu

    Halafu kingine,Kenya imekua ikifanya kampeni mbaya sana dhidi ya Tanzani na hata katika elimu yao wameingiza propaganda chafu against Tanzania.Sisi tumekaa kimya tu

    Hostile neighbours kama hawa wanastahili hatua kali za kiuchumi ,kibiashara,kisiasa huku diplomasia ya kivita ikiwa kama background cover.Tanzania tuache upole huu,utatufanya maskini na tutaonewa na watu kama hawa siku zote.Tusimame na kuchukua hatua kali,ingwa uchumi wetu unakua kwa spidi ndogo tujitahidi.najua kuna watu watakuja hapa kusema waafrika tupendane,ndiyo tunapendana ndo maana tunataka kufundishana adabu kwa hatua kali
     
  20. Ben Saanane

    Ben Saanane Verified User

    #20
    Apr 9, 2010
    Joined: Jan 18, 2007
    Messages: 14,605
    Likes Received: 3,507
    Trophy Points: 280
    pia naona hata sasa hivi wanajifanya ati wameondoa work permits kwa foreigners in the spirit of EAC intergration.Sas hawa jama wanategha ili Tanzania na wao wafanye the same,kuna kazi gani ambazo watanzania watafanya kenya?instead wao ndiyo watataka kuhamishia ubinafsi wao Tanzania,kwanza sheria za kazi hapa tanzania na idara ya uhamiaji inastahili kuwa re-structured.

    Baada ya uhuru,tulikua na vita kuu tatu ujinga,maradhi na umaskini.Sasa malengo yetu hayo naona hata viongozi wetu hawayatilii maanani,je vita ya umaskini na upatikanaji wa ajira kwa watanzania ilishaisha?
     
Loading...